Are netbooks shrinking Apple's slice of the portable market?

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  • Reply 121 of 186
    kolchakkolchak Posts: 1,398member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    Seeing as software is a multi-billion dollar industry. No most people are not only installing MS Office.



    Many people don't get to install even Office. As people in the industry have pointed out, an awful lot of PCs are located in businesses where IT has the machines locked down and users aren't allowed to install anything at all.



    Quote:

    My point is that its still unknown if netbooks are a viable long term and profitable category. Will 400 people on the internet translate into the hundreds of thousands of sales that make it worth Apple's effort to make a netbook?



    Have you any idea how torrents work? This was over 400 peers in addition to over 100 seeds, not 400 seeds. In other words, 400 people at that given moment who were in the process of downloading. Once they finish in a few hours, they stop being peers. They either leave or they stay and become counted as seeds as new peers request the download. 400 users just for a few hours. That translates to several thousand a week minimum. And these are the people who are willing to put up with the process of installing OS X on an unsupported machine by themselves. Imagine how many more would be interested if a netbook just came from the factory with OS X installed.
  • Reply 122 of 186
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post




    This goes back to the crux of the situation. Are netbooks a long term profitable category?



    I think they are. Why wouldn't they be? They are fully functional downsized notebooks, not just fashion gadgets.



    Let me give an example: Back in the beginning of 2002, my wife got her notebook. It had (actually still has) Pentium 3 at 1GHz, 512MB RAM, 15GB HDD. She was using it as her main computer until mid 2007. She did her complete PhD on that machine, everything regarding Internet, email, instant messaging... plus she always kept small but recent collection of photos, ours and received from friends/family (HDD size being limiting factor). It was used daily, and for hours.



    Machine came with XP Home, and had MS Office XP (later on 2003), ACDSee for photos, CorelDraw 11 and later 12, Older Photoshop CS2, chemistry stuff (ChemDraw and some other) and a "lot" of PDFs, docs, drawings and bitmapes related to her studies.



    That machine has comparable or even slower CPU, less RAM and much smaller and slower HDD than most netbooks. It has bigger screen (14") but with almost the same resolution as netbooks (1024*768). Software that was running on it was and still is perfectly useful, and job done - 600 A4 pages of final PhD, rich with graphics (not to mention everything else it was used for on the run) tells volumes about usability of even such puny laptop; what was done on it is probably much more demanding than casual usage most people require from their netbooks.



    And it is still in use! Cleared of all extra software (only XP, Open Office, Firefox) it is "strategically" positioned next to my favourite TV armchair. If something comes to my mind and I want to have a quick look on the net during commercials, I'd usually grab it rather than going for my "main" notebook or desktop. Slow it is, but beats the crap of getting out of chair.



    Since IT is getting more and more in every segment of our life, having handy computer always around will be more and more required as well. It's like with mobile phones - not much more than 10 years ago, cellphones were still exotic stuff and I've heard so many times people saying things like "I'll never get a cellphone - who'd like to be available all the time anyway?". I wonder if any of those still hasn't got cellphone nowadays. I think netbooks will follow same route, and will not be surprised if in a few years even fashion industry doesn't follow trends with jackets, coats... with oversized netbook pockets and holsters.
  • Reply 123 of 186
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jlandd View Post


    You keep forgetting the fact that Apple doesn't sell one, so Apple fans can't buy one. I'm heavily invested in OSX up and down the line. Our Asus required no compromise in that regard. Why would it?





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    How am I forgetting that Apple doesn't make a netbook when this whole discussion is about how Apple does not make a netbook?



    Because you insist that everyone chooses a computer based on OS, when in fact, since Apple has no netbook currently on the market, Mac users who want one just go "what the hell" and buy based on other criteria. Regardless of the actual differences between the versions of Linux and Windows that come on these things, it makes little difference to much of the public and absolutely zero to Mac users who don't even know the difference. Yet they pick one and are off and running.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    For the most part the MacBook Air performs as anyother notebook. It is not hampered in its ability to run 3rd party software.



    Why are you comparing a slick (yet still crippled) $1,700 laptop with a barebones $300 one? Aside from the fact that your 'must be driven by purchased software' claim is nonsense, what could you possibly be saying with this? Not a flame, it's just that your statement comes from nowhere and says nothing.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    Again seeing as software is a multi billion dollar industry that only continues to grow. Under what situation are their major computer sales where no 3rd party software is used?





    Sorry, Tenobell, now you've completely lost me. That's like saying MacDonald's can't possibly lose money because the meat industry is a big business. Huge gaps in there.
  • Reply 124 of 186
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post


    Many people don't get to install even Office. As people in the industry have pointed out, an awful lot of PCs are located in businesses where IT has the machines locked down and users aren't allowed to install anything at all.



    Those business machines are still running 3rd party software even if the individual users don't decide what that software is.







    Quote:

    Have you any idea how torrents work?



    None of that matters. What only matters is if their is a wide and profitable market for this product.
  • Reply 125 of 186
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Because they sit in somewhat of an awkward middle. They are too small to function as full sized notebook. They are too big to carry around and use as easily as a smartphone.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


    I think they are. Why wouldn't they be? They are fully functional downsized notebooks, not just fashion gadgets.



  • Reply 126 of 186
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by trenbrac View Post


    Because you insist that everyone chooses a computer based on OS, when in fact, since Apple has no netbook currently on the market, Mac users who want one just go "what the hell" and buy based on other criteria. Regardless of the actual differences between the versions of Linux and Windows that come on these things, it makes little difference to much of the public and absolutely zero to Mac users who don't even know the difference. Yet they pick one and are off and running.



    Most people do choose computers computers based on OS.



    Their is no evidence most most Mac users want to buy netbooks. Which is the reason Apple does not make one.





    Quote:

    Why are you comparing a slick (yet still crippled) $1,700 laptop with a barebones $300 one? Aside from the fact that your 'must be driven by purchased software' claim is nonsense, what could you possibly be saying with this? Not a flame, it's just that your statement comes from nowhere and says nothing.



    What exactly is crippled about the MacBook Air? Outside of an optical drive it does 90% of what every other notebook does.



    How is my claim that people buy software nonsense? To support netbooks you guys want to really want to go with the logic that people don't buy 3rd party software?





    Quote:

    Sorry, Tenobell, now you've completely lost me. That's like saying MacDonald's can't possibly lose money because the meat industry is a big business. Huge gaps in there.



    I asked a simple question to which this is not an answer.
  • Reply 127 of 186
    kolchakkolchak Posts: 1,398member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    None of that matters. What only matters is if their is a wide and profitable market for this product.



    I see where you're coming from now. "La la la, I'm not listening! I'm not listening! I don't know what any of this evidence means, I'll just stick with my personal opinion."
  • Reply 128 of 186
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Not at all. I'm saying I seriously doubt Apple's managers are sitting in future strategy meeting using random people who steal OS X from a torrent as evidence they should build a netbook.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post


    I see where you're coming from now. "La la la, I'm not listening! I'm not listening! I don't know what any of this evidence means, I'll just stick with my personal opinion."



  • Reply 129 of 186
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    Because they sit in somewhat of an awkward middle. They are too small to function as full sized notebook. They are too big to carry around and use as easily as a smartphone.



    Sitting in the middle might be good as well - getting a piece from both worlds.



    First generations of smartphones were sitting in the middle - many of them too big for pocket (Nokia 9000, anyone?) and too limited to replace computers. And look at them pesky smartphones now.



    I'm not saying netbooks will follow same success, but... I wouldn't be surprised. After all, their day is still young.
  • Reply 130 of 186
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    Apple's doomed!





    Troll. The pundits have been saying that Apple's doomed for 25 years. Yet its still here.
  • Reply 131 of 186
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by williado21 View Post


    Any Apple netbook should have the following to even be considered:



    USB 2.0

    Display-Port

    ExpressCard slot



    The MacBook Air misses the mark on being a Netbook because of it's size. Furthermore, I hope with the advent of Snow Leopard, Apple gives us some sort of Portable Home Directory system without the need to run Leopard Server for admin purposes.



    The lack of a high speed file transfer system between said "netbook" and a user's primary computer is why Apple won't ever be "in" on the Netbook craze.



    How about the iPod docking plug? Doesn't that do video, audio, file transfer, and power?

    If Apple brought back Firewire to the iPhone and iPods, that would solve a lot because you could do a big chunk of stuff with that and another cheaper iPod or other Firewire HDD. Or give iPhones and iTouches USB host controllers
  • Reply 132 of 186
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by skellener View Post


    Got my Wind for $349. Runs OS X 10.5.5 just fine. No netbook from Apple. Period. Not gonna happen.



    Never is a very, very, very long time. To beat a dead horse somemore:

    * Apple would never kill off Classic completely.

    * Apple will never open brick-and-mortar stores. It would be a disaster.

    * Apple will never make the eMac available to non-educational buyers.

    * Apple would never get into the music business. They can't legally do it.

    * Apple would never offer iPods for Windows users.

    * Apple would never discontinue the iPod Mini. It's way too popular.

    * Apple would never create their own browser. They need Internet Explorer on the Mac.

    * Apple would never offer iTunes for Windows.

    * Apple would never create a 24" iMac. It would be too top-heavy.

    * Apple would never create their own office suite. It would make Microsoft angry.

    * Apple would never offer a headless Mac.

    * Apple would never switch to Intel chips.

    * Apple will never get into the cell phone market. It's way too competitive.

    * Apple will never create another handheld platform. The Newton was a disaster.

    * Apple will never let people run Windows on a Mac.

    * Apple will never make Safari for Windows.

    * Apple will never let developers into the iPhone. It's a security problem.

    * Apple would never call something the Macbook Air. That's horrible sounding.

    * Apple will never release a 3G iPhone. It's too power-hungry.



    And to continue "640k ought to be enough for anyone" Bill Gates, supposedly.
  • Reply 133 of 186
    How about this one ?



    * Apple would never release an unprofitable computer which cannibalizes sales of profitable ones.



    C.
  • Reply 134 of 186
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Smartphones are successful now because they became smaller and more powerful.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


    First generations of smartphones were sitting in the middle - many of them too big for pocket (Nokia 9000, anyone?) and too limited to replace computers. And look at them pesky smartphones now.



  • Reply 135 of 186
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    Their is no evidence most most Mac users want to buy netbooks. Which is the reason Apple does not make one.



    You should to reword this to say "I don't think most Mac users want to buy netbooks", because (aside from the fact that we don't need "most" Mac users to make the point) all you need to do is go down to J & R, like I did when I bought mine, and ask people hovering around the netbooks if their main computer is a Mac. Literally half the people I spoke to on that day, students, geezers, preppies, slackers, were Mac users getting a non-Mac netbook



    And ask them (and everyone else) if the OS on the netbook drives their choice. Believe me, I was asking people for advice on whether I should care if it was Linux or Windows and even that question went completely over their heads. I can guarantee that more people at the J & R netbook kiosk on any given day don't know the difference between the OSs on the netbooks (other than it isn't the Apple OS, if that) than those that do.



    Where are you getting your "evidence" that Mac users aren't buying netbooks? We're all over the place. Just get out and look.
  • Reply 136 of 186
    jlanddjlandd Posts: 873member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    What exactly is crippled about the MacBook Air? Outside of an optical drive it does 90% of what every other notebook does.

    .



    They left off everything that prevented it from being cardboard slim. Great for thinness bragging rights. But if you don't consider that for $1,800 with a 4200 rpm drive and just a USB and mini display port as the ONLY ports (there are more options on my wife's $400 netbook) that it's not crippled/compromised for the sake of fashion, I don't know what to tell you.



    It's really more 70%, which is fine, because if you're looking for a real laptop it's not for you.



    Same as a netbook.
  • Reply 137 of 186
    Why does everyone have their drawers in bunch over computers that have tiny, hard to read keyboards, screens and limited processing and storage capabilities?



    As I recall that was what laptops were in the beginning, so this really to me seems like, not progress, but regression. Shrinking interfaces, processing, storage and displays, what sense does that make??





    "We've reached terminal velocity captain, what are going to do now?""Oh, hell I don't know, I guess just hit the self-destruction button, I can't think of any thing else..."




    I understand the usefulness and differences in a laptop or desktop, but seriously this whole netbook thing to me is silly, just plain silly....
  • Reply 138 of 186
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Flanker View Post


    Never is a very, very, very long time. To beat a dead horse somemore:

    * Apple would never kill off Classic completely.

    * Apple will never open brick-and-mortar stores. It would be a disaster.

    * Apple will never make the eMac available to non-educational buyers.

    * Apple would never get into the music business. They can't legally do it.

    * Apple would never offer iPods for Windows users.

    * Apple would never discontinue the iPod Mini. It's way too popular.

    * Apple would never create their own browser. They need Internet Explorer on the Mac.

    * Apple would never offer iTunes for Windows.

    * Apple would never create a 24" iMac. It would be too top-heavy.

    * Apple would never create their own office suite. It would make Microsoft angry.

    * Apple would never offer a headless Mac.

    * Apple would never switch to Intel chips.

    * Apple will never get into the cell phone market. It's way too competitive.

    * Apple will never create another handheld platform. The Newton was a disaster.

    * Apple will never let people run Windows on a Mac.

    * Apple will never make Safari for Windows.

    * Apple will never let developers into the iPhone. It's a security problem.

    * Apple would never call something the Macbook Air. That's horrible sounding.

    * Apple will never release a 3G iPhone. It's too power-hungry.



    And to continue "640k ought to be enough for anyone" Bill Gates, supposedly.



    Steve Jobs thought the 128K Mac was all we would ever need in a Mac too...
  • Reply 139 of 186
    I've been flying more lately, and netbooks is about all I see these days in the airports and on the planes. I feel almost embarrassed pulling my 17" MBP out of my backback around a bunch of netbook users. And the MBP really is overkill and is impossible to use on an airline unless I get first class. Since I purchased my iPhone, I rarely take the MBP out anywhere anymore. There's little need. For very basic internet stuff the iPhone is adequate. But a netbook, with a built in webcam for Skype video calls and a real web browsers would be perfect for traveling. My last trip was for 5 months so it really was nice to bring the MBP with me, but for shorter trips like my upcoming 2 week trip, a netbook would suit me perfectly. In fact, I may go shopping for one this week......
  • Reply 140 of 186
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Its $1800 for a 1.6GHz C2D with 6MB L2 cache, 1066MHz FSB, 2GB DDR3 RAM, NVIDIA GeForce 9400M, 13" screen and a full keyboard. This is essentially a MacBook Pro from 2 years ago in a thin, lightweight case.



    This is a far more capable machine than any netbook. Their are sub-notebooks for over $2000 that don't have these specs.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jlandd View Post


    They left off everything that prevented it from being cardboard slim. Great for thinness bragging rights. But if you don't consider that for $1,800 with a 4200 rpm drive and just a USB and mini display port as the ONLY ports (there are more options on my wife's $400 netbook) that it's not crippled/compromised for the sake of fashion, I don't know what to tell you.



    It's really more 70%, which is fine, because if you're looking for a real laptop it's not for you.



    Same as a netbook.



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