Hmm, for the first time almost -ever- I find myself agreeing with Jeff.
This price is almost certainly set more out of spite than any other reason. Call it persuasion to stick with the closed/subsidized model, I guess.
Only thing I wonder, though, is why Apple would take this route instead of maximizing sales with a "$199 + subsidy amt" unlocked price... The embarrassment of being proven wrong by having an open system for once?
Maybe Orange France could sue them for breaking their commercial agreement put in place when this precedent didn't exist if Apple offered subsidized handsets with another network.
Compared to other smartphone's this is a realistic price for an unsubsidised/unlocked handset.
As the iPhone supports 850MHz and 2100MHz HSDPA the hardware will work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five
Hmm, for the first time almost -ever- I find myself agreeing with Jeff.
This price is almost certainly set more out of spite than any other reason. Call it persuasion to stick with the subsidized model, I guess.
Only thing I wonder, though, is why Apple would take this route instead of maximizing sales with a "$199 + subsidy amt" unlocked price... The embarrassment of being proven wrong by having an open system for once?
I'm aware that paying a premium for Apple products comes back to all of us by way of R&D, but this is absurd, regardless of subsidies and contracts. $700-$800 maybe, but this? Not a chance. I loathe the term "fanboy" but it seems that some of you who automatically, and wholeheartedly defend these prices, deserve the title. Maybe it's out of spite, and I guess they have the right to do so, but Apple shouldn't expect allegiance from those of us who are aware that mobile software technology is quickly catching up.
These are most likely NOT official French iphones.
These are sourced from countries like Belgium and Hong Kong where they purchased them and then selling them in France --- therefore of couse they cost more than Belgium iphones.
This price is almost certainly set more out of spite than any other reason. Call it persuasion to stick with the closed/subsidized model, I guess.
No --- the German price of 999 euro was "out of spite" to the temporary injunction (which was later overturned).
It really shows all those simlocking rules in Europe are garbage --- when all Apple has to do is selling the iphone at 999 euros. Empty legal victories like how they "won" and "forced" Microsoft to sell a version of Windows XP without the media player --- fewer than 1000 copies of that were sold in Europe.
If France really wants to help the French consumer --- then auction off additional 3G licenses and let foreign companies to enter the cell phone service industry. Right now, France has only 3 national carriers and all 3 national carriers are French-owned. What France is doing is a big empty gesture --- that provides nothing to the French consumers while protecting big French carriers from competitions.
From the very beginning Mobistar, an Orange (France) affiliate, has been selling unlocked, officially guaranteed (Apple worldwide) iPhones in Belgian shops (includes Brussels as it is our's and Europe's capital).
Prices: 525 ? for black 8 GB
615 ? for white 16 GB
615 ? for black 16 GB
They're selling on ebay for 549? and 639 ? respectively.
Heck i'll sell you one if you want proof!
Mz.
$1,123 = 794,5?
So it's not too far off, but 615? still is way too much.
Apple is greedy, governements are greedy.
200? ($282) is the maximum I will pay for an iphone, period.
Norway doesn't allow lock-in to any carrier either, but here you can buy the fully unlocked 16 GB version for $690 (4890 NOK) and the 8 GB version for $591 (4189 NOK). I thought that was expensive...
Norway doesn't allow lock-in to any carrier either, but here you can buy the fully unlocked 16 GB version for $690 (4890 NOK) and the 8 GB version for $591 (4189 NOK). I thought that was expensive...
Similar price for us in Australia, if we want outright purchases.
Not that I want to defend the Samsung, but I have to point out that yours is a completely subjective statement.
Hardware-wise they're pretty comparable. I would venture to guess that most here feel it's the software that helps the iPhone edge ahead of other phones. Software, though, has no explicit value like hardware does. Its "price" is set solely on the developer's perceived value of the software in the eyes of its users.
That said, is a piece of software such as the one found in the iPhone really worth (in this example) $550?
I'd like to contest this quote... The closest competitor is perhaps the SAMSUNG i900 @ ~$550. This iPhone is almost twice as expensive.
Are you comparing US prices with overseas prices converted to US dollars?
Or the cost of the Samsung i900 vs iPhone - in the same country?
Ignoring that - I looked at prices around the world for outright iPhones, and compared to other Apple products (eg: iPod Touches) to work out Apple's standard conversions and markups. If Apple sold the iPhone outright in the US the 8GB would be US$599, the 16GB would be US$699 (give or take $30)
(ps: I only used 3 countries in my sample, about 4 months ago).
MacNN notes that French retailer FNAC is now selling a contract-free version of the black 8GB iPhone for ?799 ($1,123), while black or white 16GB models are fetching ?899 ($1,263).
That's more than five times the ?149 in-contract cost for the 8GB model announced by Orange back in July, and considerably more than similar contract-free offerings in Belgium priced at ?529 and ?619.
Why are people always comparing European prices including VAT with American prices exclusive VAT?
The VAT in France is 19,6% so Apple is actually getting $939 for the 8GB and the other $184 is going to the government to pay for the social security and (almost) free health care.
In Belgium (21% VAT) Apple is actually getting $611 (8GB) or $715 (16GB), so those prices are not that far from the American unsubsidized prices.
Only consumers have to pay VAT, while citizens outside of EU and companies can get a tax refund.
Well, just walked out of a Vodaphone store in Bologna, and that is what they are here for the official Apple unlocked version, and you put in your own SIM. They also give you a free number if you want. The tales of needing more than a passport for an ID are not true.
Why are people always comparing European prices including VAT with American prices exclusive VAT?
The VAT in France is 19,6% so Apple is actually getting $939 for the 8GB and the other $184 is going to the government to pay for the social security and (almost) free health care.
In Belgium (21% VAT) Apple is actually getting $611 (8GB) or $715 (16GB), so those prices are not that far from the American unsubsidized prices.
Only consumers have to pay VAT, while citizens outside of EU and companies can get a tax refund.
The Phone House had unsimlocked/unlocked for the same 699/799€.
Comments
This price is almost certainly set more out of spite than any other reason. Call it persuasion to stick with the closed/subsidized model, I guess.
Only thing I wonder, though, is why Apple would take this route instead of maximizing sales with a "$199 + subsidy amt" unlocked price... The embarrassment of being proven wrong by having an open system for once?
-Clive
Compared to other smartphone's this is a realistic price for an unsubsidised/unlocked handset.
As the iPhone supports 850MHz and 2100MHz HSDPA the hardware will work.
Hmm, for the first time almost -ever- I find myself agreeing with Jeff.
This price is almost certainly set more out of spite than any other reason. Call it persuasion to stick with the subsidized model, I guess.
Only thing I wonder, though, is why Apple would take this route instead of maximizing sales with a "$199 + subsidy amt" unlocked price... The embarrassment of being proven wrong by having an open system for once?
-Clive
Compared to other smartphone's this is a realistic price for an unsubsidised/unlocked handset.
I'd like to contest this quote... The closest competitor is perhaps the SAMSUNG i900 @ ~$550. This iPhone is almost twice as expensive.
-Clive
Further to your example using the Omnia you can also buy a yum cha MP3 player for a lot less than an iPod.
I'd like to contest this quote... The closest competitor is perhaps the SAMSUNG i900 @ ~$550. This iPhone is almost twice as expensive.
-Clive
These are sourced from countries like Belgium and Hong Kong where they purchased them and then selling them in France --- therefore of couse they cost more than Belgium iphones.
This price is almost certainly set more out of spite than any other reason. Call it persuasion to stick with the closed/subsidized model, I guess.
No --- the German price of 999 euro was "out of spite" to the temporary injunction (which was later overturned).
It really shows all those simlocking rules in Europe are garbage --- when all Apple has to do is selling the iphone at 999 euros. Empty legal victories like how they "won" and "forced" Microsoft to sell a version of Windows XP without the media player --- fewer than 1000 copies of that were sold in Europe.
If France really wants to help the French consumer --- then auction off additional 3G licenses and let foreign companies to enter the cell phone service industry. Right now, France has only 3 national carriers and all 3 national carriers are French-owned. What France is doing is a big empty gesture --- that provides nothing to the French consumers while protecting big French carriers from competitions.
From the very beginning Mobistar, an Orange (France) affiliate, has been selling unlocked, officially guaranteed (Apple worldwide) iPhones in Belgian shops (includes Brussels as it is our's and Europe's capital).
Prices: 525 ? for black 8 GB
615 ? for white 16 GB
615 ? for black 16 GB
They're selling on ebay for 549? and 639 ? respectively.
Heck i'll sell you one if you want proof!
Mz.
$1,123 = 794,5?
So it's not too far off, but 615? still is way too much.
Apple is greedy, governements are greedy.
200? ($282) is the maximum I will pay for an iphone, period.
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...gin_oct_3.html
Norway doesn't allow lock-in to any carrier either, but here you can buy the fully unlocked 16 GB version for $690 (4890 NOK) and the 8 GB version for $591 (4189 NOK). I thought that was expensive...
Similar price for us in Australia, if we want outright purchases.
I'd like to contest this quote... The closest competitor is perhaps the SAMSUNG i900 @ ~$550. This iPhone is almost twice as expensive.
-Clive
And it's worth it.
And it's worth it.
Not that I want to defend the Samsung, but I have to point out that yours is a completely subjective statement.
Hardware-wise they're pretty comparable. I would venture to guess that most here feel it's the software that helps the iPhone edge ahead of other phones. Software, though, has no explicit value like hardware does. Its "price" is set solely on the developer's perceived value of the software in the eyes of its users.
That said, is a piece of software such as the one found in the iPhone really worth (in this example) $550?
-Clive
I'd like to contest this quote... The closest competitor is perhaps the SAMSUNG i900 @ ~$550. This iPhone is almost twice as expensive.
Are you comparing US prices with overseas prices converted to US dollars?
Or the cost of the Samsung i900 vs iPhone - in the same country?
Ignoring that - I looked at prices around the world for outright iPhones, and compared to other Apple products (eg: iPod Touches) to work out Apple's standard conversions and markups. If Apple sold the iPhone outright in the US the 8GB would be US$599, the 16GB would be US$699 (give or take $30)
(ps: I only used 3 countries in my sample, about 4 months ago).
MacNN notes that French retailer FNAC is now selling a contract-free version of the black 8GB iPhone for ?799 ($1,123), while black or white 16GB models are fetching ?899 ($1,263).
That's more than five times the ?149 in-contract cost for the 8GB model announced by Orange back in July, and considerably more than similar contract-free offerings in Belgium priced at ?529 and ?619.
Why are people always comparing European prices including VAT with American prices exclusive VAT?
The VAT in France is 19,6% so Apple is actually getting $939 for the 8GB and the other $184 is going to the government to pay for the social security and (almost) free health care.
In Belgium (21% VAT) Apple is actually getting $611 (8GB) or $715 (16GB), so those prices are not that far from the American unsubsidized prices.
Only consumers have to pay VAT, while citizens outside of EU and companies can get a tax refund.
I think Americans are getting screwed!
Why are people always comparing European prices including VAT with American prices exclusive VAT?
The VAT in France is 19,6% so Apple is actually getting $939 for the 8GB and the other $184 is going to the government to pay for the social security and (almost) free health care.
In Belgium (21% VAT) Apple is actually getting $611 (8GB) or $715 (16GB), so those prices are not that far from the American unsubsidized prices.
Only consumers have to pay VAT, while citizens outside of EU and companies can get a tax refund.
The Phone House had unsimlocked/unlocked for the same 699/799€.
http://www.phonehouse.fr/fiche.php?n...sku=IPHONE16GO
BTW, VAT (20.6% in France) is NOT for Social Security. It's just around 10% of my monthly earning, directly taken.
BTW, VAT (20.6% in France) is NOT for Social Security. It's just around 10% of my monthly earning, directly taken.
[offtopic]
According to wikipedia the VAT is 19.6% in France and this page states that it is almost half of the governments income.
What do you think that they do with that money?
[/offtopic]
16GB is US$794
You can buy then on the HK Apple online store contract free, unlocked for any carrier
Ouch.