Apple unveils 17-inch MacBook Pro with 8-hour battery

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  • Reply 181 of 236
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post


    So you joined pretty much at the start, used it for three years, even when they started charging for it and even when they doubled the price and added no new features, then you left in a huff, when it changed to MobileMe? That's a crazy and very emotional response if true.



    So we should believe you because you don't know how to spell the product name? These kind of blanket statements based on nothing are usually the mark of an immature mind, as is making up statistics like "95%."



    read much..??



    the mobile me service was a joke, especially at launch. It just didn't work and they lost some of my mails. Their attitude to the problem to me in person was indifference so I voted with my feet and left. Haven't missed it one bit. Not emotional just exercising my right as a consumer in the face of a rubbish service. I did give them the opportunity to make it right but they couldn't even say sorry.



    on The 95% bit...



    Apple has roughly 9 to 9.5% of the computer hardware market. I was rather generously giving them 50% of their users using Iwork which I think is vastly overstating the truth. Thus (still following?) Iwork will be relevant to a very small percentage of actual computer users. Make the percentage up yourself..it is irrelevant..just like the program.





    on spelling... well if even a dimwit like you can understand (just..) then it must have been close enough.
  • Reply 182 of 236
    virgil-tb2virgil-tb2 Posts: 1,416member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by guppy737 View Post


    I'm not understanding all of these people mystified about the aluminum bezel. Here's what happened. ....



    My guess is more like this:



    Phil: So we should have a non-glossy option for the 17" right? There are always going to be some assholes that won't believe that glossy and matte are roughly equivalent.



    Steve: But it's only a tiny percentage of people that even care!



    Jonathan: I don't want to ruin the design of the thing just to accommodate these guys.



    Phil: But they'll make a huge stink about it if we don't.



    Jonathan: But we're in the right. Why should we give in to these people?



    Steve: Tell you what. We'll offer it as an option, but just stick the old screen on from the previous model, and bury it like three clicks deep on the website.



    Phil: Won't people see through that?



    Steve: People are idiots. Just give it a different name, they'll never know.



    Jonathan: It will increase production costs a bit.



    Steve: (winks) Yeah, but next year we announce "glossy only" due to poor sales of the matte.



    Phil & Jonathan: (together, smiling) Boom!
  • Reply 183 of 236
    blah64blah64 Posts: 993member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iReality85 View Post


    Question: is it a single 256GB SSD, or two 128GBs?



    Also, do we know if the "anti-glare" display is glass-less, or rather a glare-reducing coat? Theres a difference.



    This is a very good question. It appears from the picture on the 'features-17inch' page (referenced below) that it's similar to the previous generation - which would be great. But it's hard to know for sure from that PS'd image. If it's just a anti-gloss coating that would be pretty disappointing. Guess we'll see when they show up in the stores. Let's HOPE they have at least one matte display unit in each store!



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dougc View Post


    Anyone notice that the Anti-Glare 17'' MBP doesn't have the black border?



    http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/features-17inch.html

    Click the enlarged image under graphics in full force



    Awesome!



    Yes, hallelujah! The glossy black border is just as distracting as the glossy screen itself. Often, it's worse. Using a friend's MB just the other day I felt like I had a freakin flashlight shining in my eyeball - and it was the border more so than the screen. I've been hoping, but not particularly optimistic about that getting fixed, so this was an exciting find.



    Now, they just need to move this "option" down to the 15" and Apple will once again build a machine that I can buy and use. :-)
  • Reply 184 of 236
    nasseraenasserae Posts: 3,167member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


    Well, not necessarily. Is it idle battery time, full load battery time..?



    I mean, my cheap HP laptop with latest C2D Montevina platform gives 6 hours 15 minutes of idle time with basic 6-cell battery. But realistically I have 4 - 5 hours of light work (browsing, reading, typing)... less for editing photos, videos... or playing DVD. If I pop in 8-cell battery, I'll get close to 8 hours idle time. There might be even 12-cell for this notebook (actually there is secondary 12-cell, but not sure if there is primary one as well)... and that is all existing battery technology stuff.



    Now, there are some great new battery technologies in development, some of them promising even 10 times the capacity of existing batteries... but I did notice one of them that is actually getting in production, with big IT companies already announcing batteries for new and replacement ones for existing notebooks this spring (or autumn, if you are in south hemisphere). I would expect that Apple is among them... unless they really designed their own battery this time, which is unlikely.



    From Apple website "*Testing conducted by Apple in December 2008 using preproduction 2.66GHz Intel Core 2 Duo?based MacBook Pro (17-inch) units with a Better Battery Life setting. Battery life depends on configuration and use. See www.apple.com/batteries for more information. The wireless productivity test measures battery life by wirelessly browsing various websites and editing text in a word processing document with display brightness set to 50%."
  • Reply 185 of 236
    cory bauercory bauer Posts: 1,286member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Archipellago View Post


    record compared to what exactly...??



    Compared to DVD in both resepective format's first two years.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Archipellago View Post


    if you look at the actual figures (compared to DVD) it isn't impressive at all.



    Boy is there egg on your face!
  • Reply 186 of 236
    abster2coreabster2core Posts: 2,501member
    [/B]
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post


    What I wanted to know is how many hours of use will I get out of a battery that has reached the 1000th charge? For example (guessing from memory) I have an old PowerBook G4 that has about 450 cycles on the battery as indicated in System Profiler. Fully charged, the battery only lasts about 45 minutes. Not very useful by itself, but with a 2nd battery at hand I can still get value out of this battery.



    After 1000 charges, what is the remaining usable capacity of this new battery? If it's 2 hours, than I'd say the 1000 charge claim is a crock of you-know-what because I can't simply carry around a spare battery. You can't use the battery up as completely (like I have my PowerBook battery) because you have no backup to switch to. This means, as a percentage of the original capacity of the battery, I'm throwing out these new batteries long before I would a normal battery because I have no backup.



    BTW: I'm not complaining or bitching, just curious. I'm sure the remaining capacity at the 1000th charge is better than 2 hours. But it surely isn't 8 hours. So what is it? How does Apple calculate the 1000 charge number? Is there a standard that says, "count the number of charging cycles until the battery can only hold X% of it's original charge and that is the number of times you say the battery can be recharged"?



    As Apple posts:

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post


    The built-in battery in the new 17-inch MacBook Pro is designed to retain up to 80% of its original capacity at up to 1000 full charge and discharge cycles.



    As such, under ideal conditions, this could relate to about 6-8 hours of usage.



    It is best that you follow Apple's recommendations as described here, http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1490 and here, http://www.apple.com/batteries/notebooks.html. These articles show how Apple calculates capacity use.



    At that point, it is best you get a new battery.



    As for your old PowerBook G4 that has about 450 cycles, that is pretty good considering that these weren't designed to last more than 300 calibrations.



    I have bought more than a dozen Mac laptops over the past few years, and always with a spare. Recently, Apple replaced a battery for free on my MacBook Pro which was just 15 months old (no Applecare). I now schedule a switch once a month and I have decided that I will never buy a spare again. That is until it starts to noticeably drop battery time.



    From what I can surmise, I having been getting a new laptop before any of the batteries reach aged out. I can always pick up a new battery if I need one. As I have said before, my best accessory is a mobile inverter which allows me to charge on the road in my car, my friends car or even in taxi.
  • Reply 187 of 236
    xtophxtoph Posts: 6member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by guppy737 View Post


    I'm not understanding all of these people mystified about the aluminum bezel. Here's what happened. The Apple people sat around a room figuring out how they could not make the same "glossy" mistake with the 17 inch that they did with the other unibodies (pissed off customers, etc.)



    Mark my words, there's a 9 out of 10 chance that what they are calling the "anti-glare" screen is the same damn matte screen they had in the old 17 inch hurriedly retrofitted to fit in the unibody 17 inch. Use the same old screen and charge people $50 for the privilege!! That, my friends, is classic Apple. Kinda like putting a slower processor in the unibody MB (yeah, at least it has inVidia now), pulling the firewire port, and charging more for it. An APPLE TAX, indeed.



    And by calling it "anti-glare" they divert attention somewhat from their f-up with the other unibodies because everyone was screaming for "matte" screens right away. Subtly change what you call a matte screen so it kind of makes it seem you aren't just giving in to public pressure....



    please apple insider, or whomever, buttonhole someone at the show and pin them down on this: what is that screen? same as previous 17" model, or same screen as current glossy option with a different skin, or ... ???



    it's important to me.
  • Reply 188 of 236
    thttht Posts: 5,367member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post


    Well, not necessarily. Is it idle battery time, full load battery time..?



    From the small print at apple.com:



    Testing conducted by Apple in December 2008 using preproduction 2.66GHz Intel Core 2 Duo?based MacBook Pro (17-inch) units with a Better Battery Life setting. Battery life depends on configuration and use. See www.apple.com/batteries for more information. The wireless productivity test measures battery life by wirelessly browsing various websites and editing text in a word processing document with display brightness set to 50%.



    Even with such a description, it is highly variable depending on which websites. Comparisons with other laptops are also difficult as Apple's screen brightness levels are not the same as on other notebook from other makers. I'd expect around 6 to 7 hours on typical use. Typical use here is heavier load then Apple's wireless productivity test: more videos and Flash videos at that, games, 75% brightness, etc.



    Quote:

    I mean, my cheap HP laptop with latest C2D Montevina platform gives 6 hours 15 minutes of idle time with basic 6-cell battery. But realistically I have 4 - 5 hours of light work (browsing, reading, typing)... less for editing photos, videos... or playing DVD. If I pop in 8-cell battery, I'll get close to 8 hours idle time. There might be even 12-cell for this notebook (actually there is secondary 12-cell, but not sure if there is primary one as well)... and that is all existing battery technology stuff.



    Yes, it does appear Windows PC vendors have as much deceptive advertising as Apple. No surprise. However, for many things, Apple does a good job of advertising with the truth. Battery times is surprisingly one of them. Windows PC vendors lie all of the time: weight, thinness, battery life. I'd hazard a guess that Windows PC vendors are more deceptive than Apple with their advertising.
  • Reply 189 of 236
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by xtoph View Post


    please apple insider, or whomever, buttonhole someone at the show and pin them down on this: what is that screen? same as previous 17" model, or same screen as current glossy option with a different skin, or ... ???



    it's important to me.



    The spec on the website clearly says quote " In addition, the seamless glass enclosure makes the display stronger and more durable. "

    from

    http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/features-17inch.html

    yet when you look at the picture it looks exactly like its predecessor - ie a tacky aluminum bezel - not seamless at all!

    Since I placed an order already for a matte display 2.9GHz, 8G ram, i know feel stupid to believe the specs on the website. I have called apple and after almost 90 minutes no one there knows. They have escalated to engineering.

    So until we know for sure beware - if "In addition, the seamless glass enclosure makes the display stronger and more durable. " is something you would like!
  • Reply 190 of 236
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post


    Compared to DVD in both resepective format's first two years.





    Boy is there egg on your face!



    how so...?



    how is comparing something from years and years and years ago relevant to the discussion?



    We are talking about BRD vs DVD today!



    try this genius..!! ( from MCVUK.com) UK based.



    The best-selling movie of the year was Warner Bros’ The Dark Knight, selling 281,000 copies. This still pales compared to the best-selling DVD of the year though – Universal’s Mamma Mia managed three million sales on DVD in just its first week of sale in the UK.





    remember BRD is the only HD show in town, has been for a year.



    rubbish really.



    egg?



    just a small triumphant smile...
  • Reply 191 of 236
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post


    A 1,000 full charges. Incremental charging or topping off are not factored. As Apple recommends, you should re-calibrate i.e., fully charge and discharge your battery once a month. http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1490



    What happens after 1000 recharges? A full recharge is an everyday occurrence for me.
  • Reply 192 of 236
    wigginwiggin Posts: 2,265member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post


    [/B]



    As Apple posts:





    As such, under ideal conditions, this could relate to about 6-8 hours of usage.



    It is best that you follow Apple's recommendations as described here, http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1490 and here, http://www.apple.com/batteries/notebooks.html. These articles show how Apple calculates capacity use.



    At that point, it is best you get a new battery.



    As for your old PowerBook G4 that has about 450 cycles, that is pretty good considering that these weren't designed to last more than 300 calibrations.



    Thanks, that's what I was looking for. I had found Apple's battery page, but I was apparently still one click away from the page with that info. I tend to use my batteries until they are practically useless. I'll get a new battery when the old one starts getting less that about 2.5 hours (about 70% of original capacity) or so of use. Then I'll play battery tag until the old one is under an hour or so at which point it becomes the emergency spare. It just seems such a waste to dispose of a battery that still has use, even if somewhat limited run time.



    Still, if the 8 hours of initial use and 80% capacity after 1000 charges holds up (within "marketing tolerances") once people get their hands on these, it will be very impressive indeed.



    Edit: And hopefully your local Apple Store will have onsite battery replacement. If you think people got upset about being without their iPhone for a few days while the battery was replace, just think how pissed they'll be if you take away their whole computer!
  • Reply 193 of 236
    messiahmessiah Posts: 1,689member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Denton View Post


    2.3 million pixels of perfection, according to Apple's website.



    Naw, 2.3 million is just the pixel count (1920x1200 pixels).



    I'm wondering about the bit depth of the panel (6-bit or true 8-bit, per channel)?
  • Reply 194 of 236
    I can't believe all the posts whining that the keynote didn't include more shiny toys for boys. Uhm, you guys miss the economic meltdown? The 17" MBP was needed and is a good fit in the line-up. I couldn't wait, so I bought my 15" MBP after the last announcement.



    But the exciting news *was* in the software. I had a meeting to attend so I didn't make it to the shiny toy part, but I was already blown away with the iLife features. Face recognition? On a notebook? All those social media and iPhone integrations? And then the iWork improvements!



    For those of us who use their computer for work and not for status, this keynote has been one of the better ones.



    So come on, guys, relax and marvel at the technology that you can now have on the shiny toy in your lap and realize Apple did you a favor by not dangling expensive bling at your wallets. You, too, could be feeling the economic meltdown soon. Trust me!



    As an Apple stockholder (who will pick up more while the price is down. ) -- Way to go, Apple! Thanks for giving me exactly what I needed ? better tools at a great price! (And some nice fun stuff as well).



    Oh, and for the guys who feel they must have something hard to feel important, get your MBP's customized. There are a lots of starving artists who are looking for gigs.
  • Reply 195 of 236
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post


    SL = Second Life (at least to me and millions of others) so I have no idea what you are talking about.



    Tip: The correct form is to either spell it out or spell it out the first time and then use the acronym afterwards. I think you need to go back to QE and get JJ'ed.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post


    I assume he means Scalable Link, meaning the ability to use multiple GPU's together for more processing power?



    Seriously? You couldn't figure out that I was talking about an Apple product when I mentioned "demoed"? And you couldn't figure out that which Apple product by my mention of OpenCL?



    This is an Apple-focused forum so I will use commonly used acronyms that related to Apple. I will not mention Second Life as SL. I will not go to non-Apple-focused forums and use the acrinyms I use here.



    PS: The 'CL' in OpenCL stands for Computing Language.
  • Reply 196 of 236
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ThinkingDifferent View Post


    What happens after 1000 recharges? A full recharge is an everyday occurrence for me.



    Apple stated for the iPhone that 300 charges would reduce your battery charge to 80% of the original. This seems to be a pretty standard measure.
  • Reply 197 of 236
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post


    If there was a worse keynote since Jobs returned, nobody has yet been able to figure out which one it was. It's a simple thing to prove, if there was a worse one, we can all look it up and see exactly what was announced.



    It's easy to figure out which is the 'worst' one, but it proves nothing as it's still just a personal opinion.
  • Reply 198 of 236
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by johnqh View Post


    Good points.



    Just for fun, I searched for a Windows 17" laptop - Dell Precision M6400. The spec only says 9-cell battery with no claim on how many hours. I found some reviews using the "2 hour and 13 minutes" number.



    So, let's say after 1000 charges, the MBP's battery only lasts 2 hours. That's about the same as a new Precision M6400.



    Looked up 17" Thinkpad W700's spec too. Battery life 135 minutes (also just a hair over 2 hours).



    Dell's M6400 is an 85WHr vs 95WHr for the new Mac



    http://www.adapturl.com/laptop-dell-...00-p26709.html



    But as a mobile graphics workstation its a bit unfair to compare the 6400M to the new Mac - most of its power likely goes to its monster graphics card - Choice of either a NVIDIA Quadro FX 2700M (512MB Discrete) or 3700M (1Gb discrete) While the Mac also has 512 mb graphics memory its is a less powerful card (less cores, 1/2 the bus width, ~1/2 the bandwidth). The 2700M and 3700M are based on higher level chips and are similiar to the 9700M GTS and 9800M GTX (the 3700M has 128 cores vs 112 in the 9800M GTX. Good lord, the Dell includes a HUGE 210 Watt AC adapter, has room for 2 hard drives (raid 0 or 1 option), and can take 16Gb or ram. You could probably cook an egg on it!



    Some info on Quandro vs Consumer mobile GPUs from Nvidia

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari...e:_Mobile_GPUs

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_Quadro

    http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.ph...2915&Itemid=47



    Likely a PC with the same battery and specs would see 5 hours at best when running Vista. Anandtech has a pretty good review (though his choice of settings and methodology has caused some controversy) that suggest OSX is about 2X better at using battery power when comparing similar/same hardware. This difference could be one of the major selling points if Apple seizes on it.



    http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=3435&p=13



    BTW

    We know Apple has the thinnest notebook at 17'' (nothing else is below 1.2'' i think) but both HP and Dell offer 6.5 pound 17'' notebooks. 6.5<6.6 in my book.
  • Reply 198 of 236
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post


    Maybe they'll actually do something to celebrate the 25th anniversary of the Mac on January 24th. I won't be getting my hopes up though. All that's likely is a desktop refresh that would have been underwhelming back in November. Apple seems proud of the fact that they can sell ancient hardware at premium prices.



    That sounds reasonable considering the long delay in Mac desktop updates, but the 24th is a Saturday so I would expect that any such announcement or release would be on Tuesday, January 20th.
  • Reply 200 of 236
    zanshinzanshin Posts: 350member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    That sounds reasonable considering the long delay in Mac desktop updates, but the 24th is a Saturday so I would expect that any such announcement or release would be on Tuesday, January 20th.



    Remember that the Inaugeration madness happens on the 20th, and Steve is a BIG supporter of the Dems. VERY unlikely he would even consider putting out any message amidst that media maelstrom only to have it completely ignored.
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