Windows 7 vs. Mac OS X Snow Leopard: Apple ups the ante

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  • Reply 21 of 152
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bpg131313 View Post


    I'd be willing to wager that Snow Leopard will be released when Steve is well enough to do the Keynote for it. I'm just sayin'....



    They are probably using every extra day that they have to further improve everything, not to mention the list of known bugs that they normally have to squash shortly after release with an update. Perhaps this extension (until July if I remember correctly for Steve's medical leave) will allow them the time to really squash a lot of the problem bugs and ship a remarkably solid OS.



    Regardless, my 3 GHz Octo-core Mac Pro eagerly awaits Snow Leopard.



    Sorry, but from the looks of Jobs AIDS infection, I don't see him returning to Apple!
  • Reply 22 of 152
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,354member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by luvwknd View Post


    Why even make the comparison because it's like comparing a Porsche to a VW!



    Windows is an Enterprise level platform used by major corporations world wide!



    OSX is a toy platform used by people in the homes and it still can't do this well. Mac and their OSX will never grow up to be an Enterprise level platform and will always be a toy for people that think they are IT professionals or wannabees! And I like Dildoes in my bum



    Wow..haven't seen a winbot troll here in a while. Welcome to AI...leave your toys on your dresser please.
  • Reply 23 of 152
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by luvwknd View Post


    Why even make the comparison because it's like comparing a Porsche to a VW!



    Windows is an Enterprise level platform used by major corporations world wide!



    OSX is a toy platform used by people in the homes and it still can't do this well. Mac and their OSX will never grow up to be an Enterprise level platform and will always be a toy for people that think they are IT professionals or wannabees!



    I feel a bit bad about dignifying your input with a response, but three words:



    100% POSIX compliant.
  • Reply 24 of 152
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by luvwknd View Post


    Why even make the comparison because it's like comparing a Porsche to a VW!



    Windows is an Enterprise level platform used by major corporations world wide!



    OSX is a toy platform used by people in the homes and it still can't do this well. Mac and their OSX will never grow up to be an Enterprise level platform and will always be a toy for people that think they are IT professionals or wannabees!



    This has to be the saddest trolling I have seen in a long time.
  • Reply 25 of 152
    ikirikir Posts: 127member
    Very good article, thanks for the reading!
  • Reply 26 of 152
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Threpac View Post


    yeah, only someone like microsoft would do something that stupid.

    Oh, and last I checked "Steve" is still on the board of directors with Disney. I think you are sadly mistaken that he is even sick.

    He leaves, stocks drop 10-15%. They slowly go back up because Apple is a reliable company. "Steve" comes back and stocks boom. Then he invests even more in other companies.



    The "Steve" you're "talking about" is also still on the board of Apple, and is also still CEO. So much for your "theory."
  • Reply 27 of 152
    macosxpmacosxp Posts: 152member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    As the Snow Leopard release grows closer (remarks at WWDC last summer indicated it would ship "in about a year," or Summer 2009), more details have been released.



    What the heck are you talking about? I knew about all this back when it was discussed at WWDC. There was already all the mention of QuickTimeX, multi-core developer tools, 64 bit, new filesystem, multitouch improvements, microsoft exchange, and all that other stuff. Anything not mentioned back at wwdc was a minor feature. Leopard had hudnreds of new features, and only really talked about ten of them. Snow Leopard only really talks about 4 or 5 of them... And if you ask me, the performance and cross-compatibility improvements in Snow Leoaprd greatly outweight the next Time Machine or Spotlight.
  • Reply 28 of 152
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post


    Right. Because they should really focus like a laser on a feature that bothers 1 or 2 percent of their user base to the exclusion of other things.



    You know, adding a menu bar to the top of each screen isn't exactly difficult, and it would make a lot of people's lives easier.
  • Reply 29 of 152
    >"Due to the volumes of PCs it will eventually be installed on, it's bound to be successful even if it is a marginal product."



    The OEM scenario was the same when Vista was released and it was not successful. Many corporations decided not to upgrade and consumers demanded an XP downgrade. SUCCESS NOT GUARANTEED. false statement



    >"Windows 7 perpetuates this problem by delaying the move to 64-bits to a future release."



    Most applications will have a 64-bit version for windows 7. Certainly all microsoft products will and game developers have been making 64-bit binaries for years. If there are a few apps that are still 32 that's only because Windows has 500x the software firm development as Mac. Mac is at an advantage because they are so proprietary with their hardware but Windows 7 comes in 64-bit. period.



    >"Snow Leopard will extend touch frameworks to developers to allow them to take full advantage of multitouch trackpads in innovative ways, all without users having go out and purchase their own touch screen monitors.



    In the context of mac you say "trackpads" but when talking about non mac users you say they have to buy "touch screen monitors". Making it sound like a huge purchase. Windows users can easily buy affordable multitouch trackpads. It's not as though the mac Multitouch trackpad is not factored in to the mac total price. Way to exaggerate the contrast between the two.



    >"Microsoft, in contrast, is betting upon its own Silverlight, a Flash-like, proprietary platform for web development that ties web applications to the company's own development tools and runtime rather than leveraging open web standards for interoperability."



    How is Microsoft's use of "proprietary platform" different from Apple's MobileME and iWork? What "open standards" is Apple trying to promote? Or are you saying because they are working on a java engine that they are promoting open standards indirectly?The only difference between MS and Apple here is your characterization which is way off.



    I'm going to stop here. This article was so disappointing. Apple has not upped the ante. Although the author is forcefully trying to on his own. This is a worthy of an editorial post in the forums, not a news article. There was nothing new! Up your standards.
  • Reply 30 of 152
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Prince View Post


    The "Steve" you're "talking about" is also still on the board of Apple, and is also still CEO. So much for your "theory."



    You've never taken an English class have you?

    But first, let me answer.

    The SEC has been investigating Steve Jobs sudden disappearance from Apple and apparently had met with executives after his leave of absence, according to the SEC's sources.



    And here's how quotations work: When taking a term or name used by another source, it is required by the English language to put quotations around the word. Also, it is common courtesy to address someone you do not personally know either by using his or her last name, or by using his or her full name. I was simply mocking the people who are in love with this man. He is definitely an innovator but he is also a jerk. He stole the idea of the mouse from xerox, and now gladly takes all of the credit for that. he has stolen many ideas, just like everyone else, and is nothing special.



    Seriously, can't anyone read the news?
  • Reply 31 of 152
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by a Martin View Post


    I'll be very happy if the ZFS file system will be available also in the ?client? version of Snow Leopard.

    Last thing I heard was that it will be released for the server version of OS X only.



    I really don't know if it will be released in client or not, but the more important question is whether it will matter at all. Even if it is released the chances of being able to boot off a ZFS volume are really slim. And since 95%+ of all users have only a single hard drive, and only a single (non-Bootcamp) volume on that, ZFS becomes moot.



    Additionally I would argue that ZFS's strengths really kick in only when you have multiple drives put into the same pool, and that sort of thing is beyond most people. I do recognize that there are some strengths with only a single volume (checksum scrubbing, snapshots, etc), but there are also a lot of problems with it at the moment (Sun is only now starting to have support for booting, and recognize that there are problems on heavily loaded systems). And some of the strengths come with huge caveats: snapshots are nice, but when you start running out of space on the drive what do you do? You can't just eliminate older versions of a large file, you have to wiping out the whole snapshot.



    So Apple may well have read/write support for ZFS in 'client, but it is only going to be advertised for 'server, where having your remote-user data on a separate volume is not only supported bu actively recommended. And even there I bet Apple will be conservative and list it as supported rather than recommended.
  • Reply 32 of 152
    virgil-tb2virgil-tb2 Posts: 1,416member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bokuwaomar View Post


    You know, adding a menu bar to the top of each screen isn't exactly difficult, and it would make a lot of people's lives easier.



    Well, yeah. I was being overly snarky I guess. Sorry.



    I bet if you asked Apple's designers about this though, they would say that this problem was "fixed" by the addition of spaces in Leopard. I'm not sure I would disagree either. It's the same kind of "solve it with software" thing that Apple did with iPhone's keyboard.



    Almost all the techies where I work use multiple screens so I know what you are talking about though. IMO however, having multiple screens is mostly a status thing, even though none would admit to that. The extra screen is typically for watching some process or other, or monitoring a server somewhere, neither of which is *really* necessary to have the second screen for (again IMO).



    Personally I never liked switching my head around all the time, so I've used virtual desktop (software) solutions (on every computer I've had that allows it) for many years.
  • Reply 33 of 152
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wonderbread View Post


    >How is Microsoft's use of "proprietary platform" different from Apple's MobileME and iWork? What "open standards" is Apple trying to promote? Or are you saying because they are working on a java engine that they are promoting open standards indirectly?The only difference between MS and Apple here is your characterization which is way off.



    Read: http://www.apple.com/opensource/



    They are very different.
  • Reply 34 of 152
    sensisensi Posts: 346member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wonderbread View Post


    >This article was so disappointing. Apple has not upped the ante. Although the author is forcefully trying to on his own. This is a worthy of an editorial post in the forums, not a news article. There was nothing new! Up your standards.



    QFT, this article is completely one sided when not simply intellectually dishonest. Some people should stop writing for fanbois...
  • Reply 35 of 152
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post


    IMO however, having multiple screens is mostly a status thing, even though none would admit to that.



    Shortsighted!



    What about studio use? In Logic I can have the workspace (audio tracks/midi tracks) on one monitor, and all the EQs, faders and effects on another. Its infinitely more conducive to a smooth work flow than constantly opening/closing/arranging windows, or COMMAND+`ing through the app windows.



    Video editing? One monitor dedicated to the video output, and one for all your editing/tracking.



    Full screen gaming? Lots of games force-fullscreen, meaning you have to quit out of them to do anything else. Dual monitors negates that.
  • Reply 36 of 152
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,354member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Karl Kuehn View Post


    Additionally I would argue that ZFS's strengths really kick in only when you have multiple drives put into the same pool, and that sort of thing is beyond most people. I do recognize that there are some strengths with only a single volume (checksum scrubbing, snapshots, etc), but there are also a lot of problems with it at the moment (Sun is only now starting to have support for booting, and recognize that there are problems on heavily loaded systems). And some of the strengths come with huge caveats: snapshots are nice, but when you start running out of space on the drive what do you do? You can't just eliminate older versions of a large file, you have to wiping out the whole snapshot.




    Yes I'm pretty sure that if Apple embraces ZFS it'll be in 10.7 and come with Time Machine 2 which will leverage ZFS snapshots. My hope is that by the time 10.7 ships Apple has somehow delivered a method for saving iTunes ,iWork, iLife etc documents on a network share. I'd really love it if they made it easy to only send delta changes across for most documents for fast network performance.



    Right now many consumers are at the precipice of needing network storage. In a couple more years I feel like we'll be at the point where it'll make more sense. We'll have the final 802.11n specification and NAS running on ARM or Atom class chips will make storage devices faster. ZFS will benefit from another 2 years of development and be ready for primetime.
  • Reply 37 of 152
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post


    Well, yeah. I was being overly snarky I guess. Sorry.



    I bet if you asked Apple's designers about this though, they would say that this problem was "fixed" by the addition of spaces in Leopard. I'm not sure I would disagree either. It's the same kind of "solve it with software" thing that Apple did with iPhone's keyboard.



    Almost all the techies where I work use multiple screens so I know what you are talking about though. IMO however, having multiple screens is mostly a status thing, even though none would admit to that. The extra screen is typically for watching some process or other, or monitoring a server somewhere, neither of which is *really* necessary to have the second screen for (again IMO).



    Personally I never liked switching my head around all the time, so I've used virtual desktop (software) solutions (on every computer I've had that allows it) for many years.



    Apple is marketing their new LED Cinema Display as a docking station for notebooks though, and the main benefit of using the LED Cinema Display would not be the second screen, but the larger screen.
  • Reply 38 of 152
    virgil-tb2virgil-tb2 Posts: 1,416member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by arkizzle View Post


    Shortsighted!



    What about studio use? In Logic I can have the workspace (audio tracks/midi tracks) on one monitor, and all the EQs, faders and effects on another. Its infinitely more conducive to a smooth work flow than constantly opening/closing/arranging windows, or COMMAND+`ing through the app windows.



    Video editing? One monitor dedicated to the video output, and one for all your editing/tracking.



    Full screen gaming? Lots of games force-fullscreen, meaning you have to quit out of them to do anything else. Dual monitors negates that.



    Well yeah I was talking from my own experience only and completely ignored the creative workers.



    On the other hand, none of the uses you mention necessitates a second menu bar or a travelling menu bar.



    In any case I'm not rabidly opposed to multiple monitors, I'm just reasoning through why Apple may not have included the support the original poster asked for.
  • Reply 39 of 152
    There's one part of this column that I disagree with:



    Quote:

    ...as well as new advancements to Safari 4.0 and its SquirelFish Extreme JavaScript engine. The latter two will help to accelerate a new wave of sophisticated web applications, including Apple's own SproutCore-based MobileMe and iWork.com, as well as other HTML5 applications from partners such as Google, which are similarly working to develop open, interoperable, and high performance web apps with desktop-style features based upon industry standards.



    Microsoft, in contrast, is betting upon its own Silverlight, a Flash-like, proprietary platform for web development that ties web applications to the company's own development tools and runtime rather than leveraging open web standards for interoperability.



    The author assumes that rich internet applications (RIA) won't gain traction, and that standards-compliant AJAX apps will be the preferred development and delivery mechanism for next-generation (Web 3.0) websites. He's wrong.



    First of all, I'm a Java programmer who's spent the better part of my career developing web applications. I've dealt with the pain of learning HTML, JavaScript, and CSS, and having to integrate them all into web applications. I've also done basic AJAX programming and have dabbled in Google Web Toolkit and Flex. Most importantly, I had to support those web applications in Internet Explorer and Netscape, even though I wished I only had to develop them for Firefox.



    Having said that all of that, there are several very important reasons why Web 2.0 and AJAX technologies that rely on open standards (and broken standards like in IE) will not be prevalent for Web 3.0 applications:



    1) Developers of server-side technologies such as Java hate working with client-side technologies such as HTML, JavaScript and CSS.

    2) Web developers despise having to test their webapps on different browsers and get them to function identically across them. With the rise in fortunes of Macs and Firefox, any serious web developer must test their webapps on at least 4 browsers (IE 6, IE 7, Firefox, and Safari). There is no unified runtime to develop on.

    3) The quality of development tools for server-side technologies (Eclipse, Netbeans, and VisualStudio) has historically been radically superior to those for client-side web technologies. For instance, it's only been recently that there have been quality JavaScript debuggers.

    4) Internet Explorer. As long as Microsoft either purposefully or accidentally breaks web standards, there will be one less reason to develop web applications in HTML/JavaScript/CSS.

    5) Even with a single browser that implements web standards perfectly, there is only so much functionality that can be implemented in web standard technologies.



    And here are the reasons why RIA technologies like Flash, Silverlight and JavaFX will prevail:



    1) Unified runtime. Developers only need to code to a single runtime and test within that runtime. There's no need to switch between the browser and IDE, and there's a full debugging environment available for the client-side code.

    2) Rich GUI functionality such as charts, animations, graphs, and other bells and whistles come as pre-packaged and reusable components that developers can simply plug into their apps.

    3) This is not true of Flash, but Silverlight and JavaFX offer seamless integration with their server-side equivalents (ie, .NET/C# and the Java VM and libraries).



    Having said that, which RIA framework has the advantage? Well, I would say either Silverlight or JavaFX, based on point #3. .NET and Java are mature server-side technologies with fantastic development tools (Visual Studio, Eclipse, and Netbeans).



    JavaFX has one important advantage over Silverlight in this regard: JavaFX will be 100% open source, although only the compiler and tools are fully open source, with parts of the graphics libraries still closed source. This means JavaFX has the opportunity to become the open source community's RIA tool of choice, which will be a tremendous advantage.
  • Reply 40 of 152
    mjtomlinmjtomlin Posts: 2,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wonderbread View Post


    How is Microsoft's use of "proprietary platform" different from Apple's MobileME and iWork? What "open standards" is Apple trying to promote? Or are you saying because they are working on a java engine that they are promoting open standards indirectly?The only difference between MS and Apple here is your characterization which is way off.



    SilverLight is a proprietary Microsoft technology... so you'll have download and install the SilverLight runtime to use Microsoft's "cloud" applications.



    MobileMe and iWork.com were built with HTML, CSS, and JavaScript. And will work just fine with any standards based browsers, which pretty much means all modern browsers and you won't need to download or install anything extra for it to work.
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