Yes, of course I know the music is rented. For me that is revolutionary. There is so much music out there. In iTunes it's hard to tell from a small snippet if I want to buy a song or an album. In Zune it's great to be able to try a bunch of stuff and just not worry about it. I really like the Zune service and have found a lot of great music I would not have found using iTunes.
LOL, what ever. How much is Micro$oft paying you to go to Apple blogs and defend Zune? You might be the lucky 5,000 employees to receive special gift.
I'm disappointed that the Zune still hasn't been made available outside of North America.
I've been buying exclusively iPods since the 3rd gen model hit the shelves but competition is always a good thing for the consumer.
There's actually some features on the Zune platform that I'd love to see on the iPod. My top two would be a larger screen on the HDD models and something akin to the Zune pass subscription service. $15 for 10 tracks to keep forever and unlimited rentals from the rest of the store is great value.
the margins on ipods are in the 50% range..whos ripping who off.?
So what are the margins on the zune? after all, the 120gb of each are the same price.
If the margins are different, then apple is simply more efficient. their product is still priced competitively; should they duck the price just out of charity? should we have a federal agency regulate how much margin a company can make on a product?
Remember right before the first Zunes came out, and Apple lowered the price of the hard-drive based iPods $50? Microsoft had to price the Zune to match (they had announced a higher price to match the old iPod price). That really screwed up Microsoft's financial model, so that they will never recoup their R&D costs (I'm sure they wouldn't have anyway).
Also remember that each Zune model copied the iPod design of the year before (while adding 'squirting' and a couple of other software functions), while at the same time Apple came out with new improved models.
I actually see the point of curtwilliams about the subscription model - you get 10 songs a month to keep for $15 (keep permanently), plus you can download anything in the store to use or preview (of course it won't be permanent, but you can buy it if you like it).
I get frustrated by iTunes' 30 second previews - it's just too short. Some songs play only a talking intro for the preview, some play parts where you can't tell what the song is like. I've bought songs that I thought I liked, but when I heard the entire songs there were parts in there that really annoyed me, and I deleted them.
Still, I wouldn't go for the subscription model myself, but it makes sense as a tool, especially like curtwilliams pointed out - suppose you have a party where you want to play 3 hours of yodeling songs - you don't have to buy them.
I would hardley say the ipod is innovative anymore. Maybe in 2003 or 2004. It is 2009 though the ipod is still just an ipod. There are hundreds of music players that do the exact same thing and or more. Sales don't reflect quality. We all know that already. Sales reflect popularity. And now that itunes is DRM free. Well..
"innovative" is relative to the competition, not itself.
Compared to the nano2, touch, and iPhone, the rest of the field is still far behind, execpt in particular niche features (e.g. for the tiny % using something like ogg format.)
For those who say Apple should join the race to the bottom with 'phone-only' "iPhone nano", keep this in mind... Apple is thriving on the flight to quality.
Yep. They will have to wait to see what they can try to copy from Apple next. I wonder if they ever though of employing creative people? Nah, what am I thinking, why change tactics after 25 years eh?
The funny thing is, I know a LOT of REALLY creative people at MS... some of the best in the world.
So the disaster we're seeing falls completely at the feet of upper management, who still see the world as their cash-cow to be milked via their (shrinking) monopoly.
I would hardley say the ipod is innovative anymore. Maybe in 2003 or 2004. It is 2009 though the ipod is still just an ipod. There are hundreds of music players that do the exact same thing and or more. Sales don't reflect quality. We all know that already. Sales reflect popularity. And now that itunes is DRM free. Well..
You've got to be kidding. What do you think the iPod Touch is?
So what are the margins on the zune? after all, the 120gb of each are the same price.
If the margins are different, then apple is simply more efficient. their product is still priced competitively; should they duck the price just out of charity? should we have a federal agency regulate how much margin a company can make on a product?
it's not a rip off if it's competitively priced.
well I would argue that Zune's are better made from better quality components.
To me..it feels more expensive.
Apple can leverage their marketshare with suppliers for pricing....right or wrong...... do Apple still get kids to assemble them??
This kinda sucks. While it was probably inevitable, I think microsoft was really the only company who had both the resources and the desire to create a viable competitor to the iPod and iTunes combo. As much as a like these two products, I really think there could be more innovation with the iTunes store/jukebox. Right now, its basically functional, but it really could do a lot more and simultaneously be a lot sleeker.
My only hope is that the move to DRM free music really allows apple to do a lot more with iTunes, as I think DRM crippled a lot of what they potentially might have done.
No other tech company gets the sort of margin Apple gets..or even approaches in the tech industry.
and the really ironic thing is that its' biggest fanboys love the fleecing they regularly get.!!!
amazing..
...
Man, just give it up.
You are a hopeless troll and most of what you are pushing here is total BS.
You've gone on for several posts now about how Zunes are built better and with higher quality components, but when pressed, it turns out this is just your "feeling."
The reality is, Apple products have a better build quality and a lower return rate, and a higher customer satisfaction rating than anything Microsoft has ever done, period.
You reference the child labour accusation, without referencing the fact that it turned out to be nothing. Again, the reality here is that Apple has higher standards in this area than anyone and requires their manufacturers to adhere to a code of conduct that is exemplary.
I could go on knocking down each of the points you make in each post, but it's a waste of time because you are just a troll after all. The only thing you've said that's actually true, is that Apple has larger margins (by a lot) than most everyone else in the industry.
Just give it up and go cuddle your Zune or something.
It's probably feeling down on this news today and could use a hug.
Microsoft Zune Crashes - "Zune platform revenue decreased $100 million or 54% reflecting a decrease in device sales."
So that explains the 5000 job cut at MS!
"The music player's sharp decline in revenues helped erase 60% of the company's earnings in its Entertainment and Devices Division, which includes the Xbox gaming platform."
How many more MS employees to get their walking papers from Ballmer?
the Zune is actually a better piece of hardware than any ipod you care to mention.
Audio quality is much better, video quality is really good.
The current Zune software is better than iTunes.
Care to provide some factual evidence to back up your argument, or are you just claiming your opinion to be fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archipellago
ripoff?:
the margins on ipods are in the 50% range..whos ripping who off.?
A companies profit margins have absolutely ZERO to do with a customers perceived value in a product. People buy iPods because the perceived benefit outweighs the costs. Otherwise, they would buy something else, like maybe one of your precious Zune's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archipellago
well I would argue that Zune's are better made from better quality components.
To me..it feels more expensive.
So, your argument is based on the fact that, to you.. it feels. Great argument. To me..Zune's feel cheap. Guess they must be made from cheap components then right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archipellago
No other tech company gets the sort of margin Apple gets..or even approaches in the tech industry.
Again, any factual evidence to back this up, or is it just your "opinion" again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archipellago
and the really ironic thing is that its' biggest fanboys love the fleecing they regularly get.!!!
amazing..
...
No, what is amazing is the same old tired, first grade argument you trolls bring out any time anyone has anything pro-Apple or con-Apple-Competitor to say.
The "social" is a great idea that only fails because of their ridiculously low market share. If Apple had done "the Social" it would have been the biggest thing since sliced bread. One thing Apple fails miserably at is social type applications and catering to the social needs of it's customers.
Thoroughly agree, Apple do not understand 'social' whatsoever. Probably due to the fact that they ban their employees from using social apps to increase productivity. Least thats what I read somewhere.
Comments
Yes, of course I know the music is rented. For me that is revolutionary. There is so much music out there. In iTunes it's hard to tell from a small snippet if I want to buy a song or an album. In Zune it's great to be able to try a bunch of stuff and just not worry about it. I really like the Zune service and have found a lot of great music I would not have found using iTunes.
LOL, what ever. How much is Micro$oft paying you to go to Apple blogs and defend Zune? You might be the lucky 5,000 employees to receive special gift.
LOL, what ever. How much is Micro$oft paying you to go to Apple blogs and defend Zune? You might be the lucky 5,000 employees to receive special gift.
the Zune is actually a better piece of hardware than any ipod you care to mention.
Audio quality is much better, video quality is really good.
The current Zune software is better than iTunes.
its lack of success is down to many factors...... many of which are shared with any competitor to low brow companies like for example McDonalds.
1/ Perception (Apple vs MS)
2/ Timing (entering the market)...remember the whole ipod/itunes idea wasn't Apple's in the 1st place.
3/ Marketing..nuff sed.
4/ Ecosystem
innovation:
can you wirelessly sync with an Ipod?
ripoff?:
the margins on ipods are in the 50% range..whos ripping who off.?
I've been buying exclusively iPods since the 3rd gen model hit the shelves but competition is always a good thing for the consumer.
There's actually some features on the Zune platform that I'd love to see on the iPod. My top two would be a larger screen on the HDD models and something akin to the Zune pass subscription service. $15 for 10 tracks to keep forever and unlimited rentals from the rest of the store is great value.
ripoff?:
the margins on ipods are in the 50% range..whos ripping who off.?
So what are the margins on the zune? after all, the 120gb of each are the same price.
If the margins are different, then apple is simply more efficient. their product is still priced competitively; should they duck the price just out of charity? should we have a federal agency regulate how much margin a company can make on a product?
it's not a rip off if it's competitively priced.
Also remember that each Zune model copied the iPod design of the year before (while adding 'squirting' and a couple of other software functions), while at the same time Apple came out with new improved models.
I actually see the point of curtwilliams about the subscription model - you get 10 songs a month to keep for $15 (keep permanently), plus you can download anything in the store to use or preview (of course it won't be permanent, but you can buy it if you like it).
I get frustrated by iTunes' 30 second previews - it's just too short. Some songs play only a talking intro for the preview, some play parts where you can't tell what the song is like. I've bought songs that I thought I liked, but when I heard the entire songs there were parts in there that really annoyed me, and I deleted them.
Still, I wouldn't go for the subscription model myself, but it makes sense as a tool, especially like curtwilliams pointed out - suppose you have a party where you want to play 3 hours of yodeling songs - you don't have to buy them.
I would hardley say the ipod is innovative anymore. Maybe in 2003 or 2004. It is 2009 though the ipod is still just an ipod. There are hundreds of music players that do the exact same thing and or more. Sales don't reflect quality. We all know that already. Sales reflect popularity. And now that itunes is DRM free. Well..
"innovative" is relative to the competition, not itself.
Compared to the nano2, touch, and iPhone, the rest of the field is still far behind, execpt in particular niche features (e.g. for the tiny % using something like ogg format.)
For those who say Apple should join the race to the bottom with 'phone-only' "iPhone nano", keep this in mind... Apple is thriving on the flight to quality.
Yep. They will have to wait to see what they can try to copy from Apple next. I wonder if they ever though of employing creative people? Nah, what am I thinking, why change tactics after 25 years eh?
The funny thing is, I know a LOT of REALLY creative people at MS... some of the best in the world.
So the disaster we're seeing falls completely at the feet of upper management, who still see the world as their cash-cow to be milked via their (shrinking) monopoly.
Sad for my friends in the belly of the beast.
In iTunes it's hard to tell from a small snippet if I want to buy a song or an album. I
That's what 'radio' is for. Far better than randomly clicking in a store's sale list.
Find stations in the iTunes radio section and find DJ with taste you appreciate.
That's how its work for the past 50 years... good model.
I would hardley say the ipod is innovative anymore. Maybe in 2003 or 2004. It is 2009 though the ipod is still just an ipod. There are hundreds of music players that do the exact same thing and or more. Sales don't reflect quality. We all know that already. Sales reflect popularity. And now that itunes is DRM free. Well..
You've got to be kidding. What do you think the iPod Touch is?
That's what 'radio' is for. Far better than randomly clicking in a store's sale list.
Find stations in the iTunes radio section and find DJ with taste you appreciate.
That's how its work for the past 50 years... good model.
so why is there no traditional radio in the ipod?
(rest in poo!!!!1!!1!11!!!)
(nods to wilco)
So what are the margins on the zune? after all, the 120gb of each are the same price.
If the margins are different, then apple is simply more efficient. their product is still priced competitively; should they duck the price just out of charity? should we have a federal agency regulate how much margin a company can make on a product?
it's not a rip off if it's competitively priced.
well I would argue that Zune's are better made from better quality components.
To me..it feels more expensive.
Apple can leverage their marketshare with suppliers for pricing....right or wrong...... do Apple still get kids to assemble them??
http://www.wired.com/science/discove.../2006/06/71176
No other tech company gets the sort of margin Apple gets..or even approaches in the tech industry.
and the really ironic thing is that its' biggest fanboys love the fleecing they regularly get.!!!
amazing..
...
so why is there no traditional radio in the ipod?
Um, there is. It costs like 50 bucks. You are constrained to your local radio stations, but there is radio.
iPod Radio player
My only hope is that the move to DRM free music really allows apple to do a lot more with iTunes, as I think DRM crippled a lot of what they potentially might have done.
well I would argue that Zune's are better made from better quality components.
To me..it feels more expensive.
Apple can leverage their marketshare with suppliers for pricing....right or wrong...... do Apple still get kids to assemble them??
http://www.wired.com/science/discove.../2006/06/71176
No other tech company gets the sort of margin Apple gets..or even approaches in the tech industry.
and the really ironic thing is that its' biggest fanboys love the fleecing they regularly get.!!!
amazing..
...
Man, just give it up.
You are a hopeless troll and most of what you are pushing here is total BS.
You've gone on for several posts now about how Zunes are built better and with higher quality components, but when pressed, it turns out this is just your "feeling."
The reality is, Apple products have a better build quality and a lower return rate, and a higher customer satisfaction rating than anything Microsoft has ever done, period.
You reference the child labour accusation, without referencing the fact that it turned out to be nothing. Again, the reality here is that Apple has higher standards in this area than anyone and requires their manufacturers to adhere to a code of conduct that is exemplary.
I could go on knocking down each of the points you make in each post, but it's a waste of time because you are just a troll after all. The only thing you've said that's actually true, is that Apple has larger margins (by a lot) than most everyone else in the industry.
Just give it up and go cuddle your Zune or something.
It's probably feeling down on this news today and could use a hug.
So that explains the 5000 job cut at MS!
"The music player's sharp decline in revenues helped erase 60% of the company's earnings in its Entertainment and Devices Division, which includes the Xbox gaming platform."
How many more MS employees to get their walking papers from Ballmer?
the Zune is actually a better piece of hardware than any ipod you care to mention.
Audio quality is much better, video quality is really good.
The current Zune software is better than iTunes.
Care to provide some factual evidence to back up your argument, or are you just claiming your opinion to be fact.
ripoff?:
the margins on ipods are in the 50% range..whos ripping who off.?
A companies profit margins have absolutely ZERO to do with a customers perceived value in a product. People buy iPods because the perceived benefit outweighs the costs. Otherwise, they would buy something else, like maybe one of your precious Zune's.
well I would argue that Zune's are better made from better quality components.
To me..it feels more expensive.
So, your argument is based on the fact that, to you.. it feels. Great argument. To me..Zune's feel cheap. Guess they must be made from cheap components then right?
No other tech company gets the sort of margin Apple gets..or even approaches in the tech industry.
Again, any factual evidence to back this up, or is it just your "opinion" again.
and the really ironic thing is that its' biggest fanboys love the fleecing they regularly get.!!!
amazing..
...
No, what is amazing is the same old tired, first grade argument you trolls bring out any time anyone has anything pro-Apple or con-Apple-Competitor to say.
Just give it up and go cuddle your Zune or something.
It's probably feeling down on this news today and could use a hug.
But not too hard of a hug or it might "squirt" on you!
The "social" is a great idea that only fails because of their ridiculously low market share. If Apple had done "the Social" it would have been the biggest thing since sliced bread. One thing Apple fails miserably at is social type applications and catering to the social needs of it's customers.
Thoroughly agree, Apple do not understand 'social' whatsoever. Probably due to the fact that they ban their employees from using social apps to increase productivity. Least thats what I read somewhere.
Please explain why a Mac user would want to use a Microsoft device.
Well for starters the Microsoft mice are a lot nicer than the Apple ones.