No new Mac Mini or iMac

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  • Reply 201 of 240
    phongphong Posts: 219member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Outsider View Post


    If it was only going to make a spec bump, Apple would have done it by now. No, something completely new is in the works.



    Even if something completely new is in the works, they still should have updated it by now. They should have updated it twice by now. Maybe even three times.
  • Reply 202 of 240
    outsideroutsider Posts: 6,008member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Phong View Post


    Even if something completely new is in the works, they still should have updated it by now. They should have updated it twice by now. Maybe even three times.



    I know, but at this point I'm not expecting a mini in it's current enclosure with a simple spec update. I expect something completely new. The mini enclosure is exactly 4 years old. Time to retire it.
  • Reply 203 of 240
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Outsider View Post


    I know, but at this point I'm not expecting a mini in it's current enclosure with a simple spec update. I expect something completely new. The mini enclosure is exactly 4 years old. Time to retire it.



    Agreed.



    Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but I kinda think Apple is going to take their bastard stepchild (the Mini) and it's "hobby" (the tv) and merge them into a singular product. Some people don't need the computing power of the mini and just want a the front-end experience that tv provide, and I understand that. For some people though, tv is a non-starter because of the lack of codec support, limited drive space, etc. It's a matter of personal preference of course, but my dream would be to have all of my digital media (TV shows, movies, music and photos) in one place. In my case this is external storage routed to a server device via USB 2.0 or FW800. This device would offer playback to my HDTV through HDMI (allowing an audio pass-through as well) and serve across the wireless network in my home. It would also make all of my media available to stream over the web...



    That being said, I know there's TONS of ways to do everything I just described on a current Mac Mini - but let's face it, for someone who doesn't have a lot of tech savvy, it can be a pain in the ass. My uneducated guess would be that Apple is trying to work on solution that combines the two which will 1) allow tv to continue life as a separate product, 2) preserve the profit margin of the Mini, 3) Allow easier connection as an HTPC, 4) Have full access to the iTunes store via FrontRow.



    I know it's a bit of a pipe dream, but I can't imagine that Apple has let 2 product lines languish in agony for over a year now without having some vision for their future.



    Whatever happens with the Mini though, as soon as they update it, Apple can add a computer sale to the quarterly numbers...
  • Reply 204 of 240
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    Not to mention their move towards greener computing. Be afraid, be very afraid:



    http://www.cherrypal.com/



    Thing is, I actually want to see computers go this way eventually. Apple would be premature to make this move right now though.



    I think they will use the Atom but for their Apple TV box. I think a cherrypal-sized ATV would go down quite well if the cost was lower than the current ATV.



    I don't think the mid-range Mac would kill off the iMac. I think that people would suddenly see that it is a niche product and it's nice for some but not for the majority of people who have more diverse needs.



    A suitably high performance Mini will do the job though. If they can fit in the 65W quad mobile CPUs, even with Nvidia 9400M alone, it will be a great machine.





    I don't like laptops, so this thing is a total no-go for me, of course its yet another windows box which ain't thrillin' me either. My needs ARE more diverse and an Atom processor is just not enough horsepower to run anything but stripped down apps. But my budget isn't in MacPro territory either, so hopefully the new Mini doesn't come out of the gate hobbled, because it would surely stumble then...
  • Reply 205 of 240
    outsideroutsider Posts: 6,008member
    [CENTER][/CENTER]



    I know Apple doesn't use off the shelf motherboards but it shows the potential for a micro tower that offers expandability and performance. Making expandable computers that last twice as long as before. How much greener can you get?
  • Reply 206 of 240
    frank777frank777 Posts: 5,839member
    That's a nice example. But there will be no slots on anything but the Pro. Period.
  • Reply 207 of 240
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,803moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Outsider View Post


    I know Apple doesn't use off the shelf motherboards but it shows the potential for a micro tower that offers expandability and performance. Making expandable computers that last twice as long as before. How much greener can you get?



    The return of the Mac Cube would be a very good thing.



    Apple is going to have to be careful when it comes to its designs because when I see things like this:



    http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/26/a...ride-your-lcd/



    I think that this is close to what people who go after all-in-one simplified design need. Apple are trying to push the design beyond its purpose and pretend it's capable of matching mid-range PCs.



    It's not and all that's going to happen is they put in an underclocked quad core or make the machine too hot to run.



    If they want to use higher performance components, they can do so but they shouldn't try and squeeze them into an enclosure not meant for it and as a result delay hardware updates when the economy is so poor.



    All because they don't want to admit they are wrong. £500 for a quad 2.66GHz including display. That is on the table right now from PC vendors and has been for over a month now. The best that Apple will offer is quad 2.0GHz mobile CPU for £700 with a crappy TN panel that you can't upgrade.



    Assuming the Mini is staying dual core, it also seems they are purposely holding it back. Just because they can't make the iMac work, why not just give up on it instead of crippling better models just to prove a point?



    So how long do we have to wait? February? March? It'll still have a hideous glossy screen anyway so who cares any more? Release the Mini already and let customers decide which model works best.



    If the Mini has dual 2.4GHz CPUs and 9400M GPU then by the same reasoning behind the mid-range Mac being unnecessary then so is the iMac. Consumers don't need quad cores with high end GPUs by this argument so the iMac will sell to a market that doesn't exist. Given that the Mini is half the price and powerful enough, the iMac is finished.



    If such a market does exist and is big enough then surely this is the same market that would have bought a core 2 quad last year if Apple offered one. No matter what way you look at it, their design choices are not so much wrong if they are making money but at least misguided.
  • Reply 208 of 240
    interesting....



    i'm not often on the refurb section of the Apple store, but i did notice when i visited there now, that there was no mac mini or imac in the UK store, and no mac mini in the US



    on second thoughts, i am pretty sure this has no relation to any kind of update/product release. just something odd, seems people like buying refurbed imacs and mac minis.



    d'ya think is it possible that Apple will just release it overnight? or will there most likely be an event in a couple of months from now? i am getting sick and tired of waiting. as i'm sure a lot of people are by now.



    peace and love.
  • Reply 209 of 240
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by r.kirkerrr View Post


    i am getting sick and tired of waiting. as i'm sure a lot of people are by now.



    peace and love.



    I should say! but then hanging around rumour sites isn't helping the patients much



    Quad Core or MORE



    HURRY UP APPLE!
  • Reply 210 of 240
    Quote:

    I know Apple doesn't use off the shelf motherboards but it shows the potential for a micro tower that offers expandability and performance. Making expandable computers that last twice as long as before. How much greener can you get?



    I like that example. If only Apple would...



    Quote:

    If such a market does exist and is big enough then surely this is the same market that would have bought a core 2 quad last year if Apple offered one. No matter what way you look at it, their design choices are not so much wrong if they are making money but at least misguided.



    I'd 2nd that opinion. To me, as much as I love the iMac's design...(and in some ways it is the ultimate 'Mac') it is really one computer trying to cover two or even 3 market lines. It's price stretches from £799-£1400. If it stretched from £695-£995 tops. You could make the case for it as offering good bang for buck.



    But the £995-£1500 territory should be a mid-tower/cube, something. Offering the i7 power with the latest gpus... Can you remember when you could get a G3 tower in the £1300 range inc Vat? Seems like a long time ago, eh? And it's not as if Apple wouldn't be making money. What with monitor sales. Still being one of the standout vendors for not 'bundling' monitors with their 'towers'.



    This would leave room for the 'cheap-ass' mini being in the £295-495 price range. The mini is another example of a price gouge. It should be a hundred cheaper at least. And about time they at least included a keyboard and mouse. Yeesh. Tight gits.



    To me, the iMac is the equivalent of the Macbook Air. 'Underpowered' as a compromise of it's leading edge design. And that's fine. I'm happy with it's design statement to de-clutter the desktop and offer '75%' the power of true desktops around it. But for the love of God. Give us a bit more choice.



    What happened to Apple's plan to make the desktop and laptop grid bigger than 4 boxes? Even if Apple are selling only 30% desktops, that's still about 1 million computers nearly. More than when they sold only towers?

    Apple clearly has unfinished business with the desktop line. The current 3 model policy offers a flawed, skewed and insufficient coverage model for many buyers like myself. And I think that market is worth another few hundred thousand buyers. Which is alot when you consider the off putting nature of Apple's stratospheric Mac Pro and the 'limited' iMac.



    Lemon Bon Bon.
  • Reply 211 of 240
    Think about it, leading edge OS, software, design...



    BUT,



    OUT OF DATE COMPONENTS AND PRICES!



    ...and to Apple's shame, they don't offer a consumer desktop with Quad cores. It's pathetic, really.



    Lemon Bon Bon.
  • Reply 212 of 240
    Quote:

    I think that this is close to what people who go after all-in-one simplified design need. Apple are trying to push the design beyond its purpose and pretend it's capable of matching mid-range PCs.



    It's not and all that's going to happen is they put in an underclocked quad core or make the machine too hot to run.



    If they want to use higher performance components, they can do so but they shouldn't try and squeeze them into an enclosure not meant for it and as a result delay hardware updates when the economy is so poor.



    All because they don't want to admit they are wrong. £500 for a quad 2.66GHz including display. That is on the table right now from PC vendors and has been for over a month now. The best that Apple will offer is quad 2.0GHz mobile CPU for £700 with a crappy TN panel that you can't upgrade.



    There's some excellent, really excellent points here. I won't talk around them. They speak for themselves. I agree.



    Lemon Bon Bon.
  • Reply 213 of 240
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    BETTER GRAPHICS Please.
  • Reply 214 of 240
    phongphong Posts: 219member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post


    Think about it, leading edge OS, software, design...



    BUT,



    OUT OF DATE COMPONENTS AND PRICES!



    ...and to Apple's shame, they don't offer a consumer desktop with Quad cores. It's pathetic, really.



    It didn't used to be like this. Although Apple didn't always have the latest and greatest, you could count on them to at least be near to it. This is so sad.



    It used to be that Apple was held back by IBM and Motorola. This is a strange feeling to see Apple holding themselves back.



    I guess it's their philosophy of saying "no" to everything else so they can work on one thing they really want to do. Why don't they want to make a decent desktop computer anymore?
  • Reply 215 of 240
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Phong View Post


    It didn't used to be like this. Although Apple didn't always have the latest and greatest, you could count on them to at least be near to it. This is so sad.



    It used to be that Apple was held back by IBM and Motorola. This is a strange feeling to see Apple holding themselves back.



    I guess it's their philosophy of saying "no" to everything else so they can work on one thing they really want to do. Why don't they want to make a decent desktop computer anymore?



    Well, you could blame Nvidia and ATI for big, expensive, hot, GPUs most of which still can't play Crysis !!!!
  • Reply 216 of 240
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post


    I like that example. If only Apple would...







    I'd 2nd that opinion. To me, as much as I love the iMac's design...(and in some ways it is the ultimate 'Mac') it is really one computer trying to cover two or even 3 market lines. It's price stretches from £799-£1400. If it stretched from £695-£995 tops. You could make the case for it as offering good bang for buck.



    But the £995-£1500 territory should be a mid-tower/cube, something. Offering the i7 power with the latest gpus... Can you remember when you could get a G3 tower in the £1300 range inc Vat? Seems like a long time ago, eh? And it's not as if Apple wouldn't be making money. What with monitor sales. Still being one of the standout vendors for not 'bundling' monitors with their 'towers'.



    This would leave room for the 'cheap-ass' mini being in the £295-495 price range. The mini is another example of a price gouge. It should be a hundred cheaper at least. And about time they at least included a keyboard and mouse. Yeesh. Tight gits.



    To me, the iMac is the equivalent of the Macbook Air. 'Underpowered' as a compromise of it's leading edge design. And that's fine. I'm happy with it's design statement to de-clutter the desktop and offer '75%' the power of true desktops around it. But for the love of God. Give us a bit more choice.



    What happened to Apple's plan to make the desktop and laptop grid bigger than 4 boxes? Even if Apple are selling only 30% desktops, that's still about 1 million computers nearly. More than when they sold only towers?

    Apple clearly has unfinished business with the desktop line. The current 3 model policy offers a flawed, skewed and insufficient coverage model for many buyers like myself. And I think that market is worth another few hundred thousand buyers. Which is alot when you consider the off putting nature of Apple's stratospheric Mac Pro and the 'limited' iMac.



    Lemon Bon Bon.



    I've had a Performa tower, a G4 450 tower and currently have a G5 1.6 and I"m looking to upgrade and have been totally priced out of the towers. I'll probably wind up getting an Imac, but it is a bummer because I use my computer for music and it is limiting not to have any expandability. I'd love to get a Universal Audio PCI card for additional effects processing, but if I stick with Apple I can't.



    I hate Windows and don't mind paying a premium for OSX, but Apple please don't make me feel like I'm getting totally ripped off.
  • Reply 217 of 240
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by r.kirkerrr View Post


    interesting....



    i'm not often on the refurb section of the Apple store, but i did notice when i visited there now, that there was no mac mini or imac in the UK store, and no mac mini in the US



    on second thoughts, i am pretty sure this has no relation to any kind of update/product release. just something odd, seems people like buying refurbed imacs and mac minis.



    d'ya think is it possible that Apple will just release it overnight? or will there most likely be an event in a couple of months from now? i am getting sick and tired of waiting. as i'm sure a lot of people are by now.



    peace and love.



    There are almost never refurbished Mac minis. When they do appear, they sell out within a day.



    If I had to guess I'd say the mini is probably one of the most reliable computers ever made. I don't think I've ever seen a forum post complaining about one failing. So there wouldn't be many to refurbish (an alternate theory is that Apple hasn't sold very many, which I find impossible to believe).
  • Reply 218 of 240
    expatexpat Posts: 110member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post


    What happened to Apple's plan to make the desktop and laptop grid bigger than 4 boxes? Even if Apple are selling only 30% desktops, that's still about 1 million computers nearly. More than when they sold only towers?



    The product grid is larger than 4 products now, in fact its a total mess. I remember when they had four machines - a tower, the Imac, the iBook and the powerbook. Two portables, and two desktops, two pro machines and two consumer machines.



    Apple has tried to fit their line to more people by offering more machines, but in the end they have left out more people than before. Lets face it, if you could get an aluminum Macbook or iMac for $800 or so, or a tower for $1400, no one would complain, and you could get away with having two desktops and two portables again.



    Instead, we have the Mini, which is ancient and forgotten about by Apple, the white Macbook, which still exists only because Apple can't make a new aluminum mackbook for less than $1000 USD. I agree that you have the Air and iMac, both of which are slaves to their form factor - the Air with its lack of ports and optical drive, and the iMac with its lack of expandability. Then you have the Pro, which is priced out of practicality, the Xserve, which is forgotten about, and the Macbook Pro, which is the only fully featured portable (firewire, pc slot), but like the Pro, is too pricey for most people.



    Overall, its just a big mess. If they had three main portables and desktops to satisfy the product/price ranges they would be set:



    sub $1000: Mini, low end portable/netbook

    $1000-$2000: xMac, Macbook

    $2000+: Pro, Macbook Pro



    Then leave the iMac and Air as flagship models that ooh and ahh people, and give you products that show off what you can do.



    Seems pretty clear, but right now the Mac lineup looks like its in the middle of a transition, but one that is very incomplete and as a result is a total mess.
  • Reply 219 of 240
    drboardrboar Posts: 477member
    I agree 4 levels

    1. Entry level

    Mini and low end laptop TVMac2?

    Dual cores

    2. Prosumers

    xMac , iMac and Macbooks

    Quadcore (dual on the books)



    3. Pro stuff

    ProMac Servers? and Pro Books

    Octacore Nehalems piles of them



    4. Design corner

    Air and other art objects.
  • Reply 220 of 240
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    At least for the Mini that sums up the frustration. We already know that the tech exists to make an acceptable Mini replacement. So if Apple hasn't gotten a Mini update out yet one has to wonder what the hell is up.



    At this point I'd have to think that the hold up is that Apple is waiting on something we don't know about. That would most likely mean a PA Semi chip of some sort. The other possibility is that Apple wants to go i7 but that would mean a massively redesigned Mini and worst an expensive Mini.



    As for iMac, that machine is less of a problem for the simple reason that it isn't grossly out dated.



    I'm almost thinking that the "new" Mini isn't being targgetted at the same market as the current.





    Dave
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