Life AFTER Jaguar.... What won't it do?

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  • Reply 21 of 37
    buonrottobuonrotto Posts: 6,368member
    [quote]Originally posted by Xaqtly:

    <strong>Some of the options now are This Window or All Windows, Icon Size, Text Size, Show Columns: Date modified, Date Created, Size, Kind, Version, Comments. Also available are Use Relative Dates and Calculate All Sizes.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    My apologies for being crude, but I think I just wet myself.
  • Reply 22 of 37
    hobbeshobbes Posts: 1,252member
    [quote]Originally posted by Xaqtly:

    <strong>Starfleet, it's considerably more filled out than that now (build 6C9x) I would post a pic but I can't get any of my FTP programs to work through our firewall in this build of Jaguar. Heh. Some of the options now are This Window or All Windows, Icon Size, Text Size, Show Columns: Date modified, Date Created, Size, Kind, Version, Comments. Also available are Use Relative Dates and Calculate All Sizes.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    All these Column View? Really?



    How on earth do they fit?
  • Reply 23 of 37
    xaqtlyxaqtly Posts: 450member
    All that stuff is in the window that pops up when you select Show View Options from the View menu in the Finder. if the window that's currently open is in column mode, those are the options you see. if it's in icon mode, then you get options like Icon Size, Text Size, Label Position (bottom or right), Snap To Grid, Show item Info (turning this on adds some text to certain items... on my hard drive it added a string of text underneath the name that shows how much space is being used and how much is free), Show icon preview (replaces generic Preview icon with a thumb of the image itself) and Keep Arranged By (name, kind, etc).



    So View Options is sort of a contextual window.
  • Reply 24 of 37
    nevynnevyn Posts: 360member
    - An extension to HFS+ that includes most of the features of ReiserFS while remaining fork-friendly, and a APSL/BSDish license.



    - Work on NFS. Or add AFS. Or both. Does WebDAV not-suck yet?



    - /System/ run as a read-only drive with all configuration/preference files moved out. This allows the drag & drop re-install, and booting from a non-hacked CD/DVD. (The install disks clearly boot from a CD, but it's not a 'full install' or anything near it.) Note also that read-only disks are very rarely virus-infected (after pressing anyway



    - Driver work. The drivers for many of the laptops still suck a lot more power than operating those same computers under OS 9... Tremendous bang-for-buck to really optimize those, as Apple's most competitive in the laptop arena, and a 20% reduction in hardware electricity use -&gt; more runtime!



    - AppleScript turned into a fully capable 'shell script' language as sh/ksh/bash/etc. Likewise, make the standard shell scripts capable of issuing appleevents... and RECORDING them. Recording is by far the best feature of AS... and it seems to be um, implementation challenged at the moment.



    - Man page complete. Every frigging thing should have a man page. Every command that can be executed, every API for BSD/Mach, and CoreFoundation....



    - Integrate the man pages into the 'Apple' help pages. If I hit help & ask about diskmounting, I want the 'easy' answers we already get... and the tougher 'here's some references you might want to read' sort of answers.



    - SystemStarter completely replaces rc. And make SystemStarter able to restart 'affected' parts of the system without rebooting the entire machine. Like an 'iTools' updater should NEVER require a reboot. Even Quicktime shouldn't. There's no solid reason to reboot the machine unless the kernal itself is changed - which is much rarer.



    - The meta-data as discussed above... but I hope it's all an open XML file from a command-line viewpoint.



    - Use the (*)(*) frameworks! The key to long-term backwards compatibility for a very large number of unix apps is access to differing versions of the same library. Frameworks provide a large piece of 'solution', though they could use some upgrading. Check /System/Library/Frameworks/JavaVM.framework/Versions, where there's currently (10.1.5) 3 different versions of the Java stuff -&gt; this rocks!



    - Upgrade the linker. 'ld' needs some work. It's open source, go



    Edit: added 'virus' comment to read only disk suggestion.



    [ 07-23-2002: Message edited by: Nevyn ]</p>
  • Reply 25 of 37
    iq78iq78 Posts: 256member
    What Jaguar won't due???



    It won't bring back OpenDoc.



    ----------------------------

    For what it's worth, I think OpenDoc was a great idea. Document centric computing with small components thrown into the document. A neat idea.



    If I would have my 'rathers' it would be a Unix based OS, which is what we got. And Unix has sort of the same mentality of small cross-app modules. But it doesn't match OpenDocs philosophy, which I thought was pretty neat.
  • Reply 26 of 37
    nevynnevyn Posts: 360member
    [quote]Originally posted by IQ78:

    <strong>What Jaguar won't due???



    It won't bring back OpenDoc.

    </strong><hr></blockquote>



    What is XML-based meta-data using MIME-filetypes?



    Answer: 90% of OpenDoc

    The other piece is writing apps that understand 'container' files & hand control for editing off to the appropriate widget.



    But the key is having some way of clearly and concisely identifying what this piece of the file is, and what that other piece is, and what editor should be used for this piece as compared to that piece.... And have that work across the entire OS.
  • Reply 27 of 37
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    [quote]Originally posted by Nevyn:

    <strong>



    What is XML-based meta-data using MIME-filetypes?



    Answer: 90% of OpenDoc

    The other piece is writing apps that understand 'container' files & hand control for editing off to the appropriate widget.



    But the key is having some way of clearly and concisely identifying what this piece of the file is, and what that other piece is, and what editor should be used for this piece as compared to that piece.... And have that work across the entire OS.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    I think you just described Services...
  • Reply 28 of 37
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    [quote]Originally posted by Nevyn:

    <strong>- An extension to HFS+ that includes most of the features of ReiserFS while remaining fork-friendly, and a APSL/BSDish license.

    </strong><hr></blockquote>



    Oh come now, you're just making that up.



    Journaling would be nice, but I'm more interested in metadata at the moment.



    [quote]<strong>

    - Work on NFS. Or add AFS. Or both. Does WebDAV not-suck yet?

    </strong><hr></blockquote>



    WebDAV: now with 50% less sucking!



    arla.org is a good implementation of AFS for MacOS X, and it's been around for a while.



    NFS still has some crufty issues that most Unix people would wish to go away... other than for integration with existing systems, I'm not sure what the benefit would be.



    [quote]<strong>

    - /System/ run as a read-only drive with all configuration/preference files moved out. This allows the drag & drop re-install, and booting from a non-hacked CD/DVD. (The install disks clearly boot from a CD, but it's not a 'full install' or anything near it.) Note also that read-only disks are very rarely virus-infected (after pressing anyway

    </strong><hr></blockquote>



    Actually, I'm not sure there isn't any reason you couldn't do this *now*. Heck, try it. Move your /System to another partition, provide a symbolic link from your boot drive, and then make the second drive mount read-only. I bet it'd work. I can't think of anything in /System that's modified for boot or runtime - it all goes into /var.



    [quote]<strong>

    - Driver work. The drivers for many of the laptops still suck a lot more power than operating those same computers under OS 9... Tremendous bang-for-buck to really optimize those, as Apple's most competitive in the laptop arena, and a 20% reduction in hardware electricity use -&gt; more runtime!

    </strong><hr></blockquote>



    Power issues have been pretty well attacked in 10.2, now that IOKit has been hammered into submission.



    [quote]<strong>

    - AppleScript turned into a fully capable 'shell script' language as sh/ksh/bash/etc. </strong><hr></blockquote>



    What do you see missing, exactly?



    [quote]<strong>Likewise, make the standard shell scripts capable of issuing appleevents... and RECORDING them. Recording is by far the best feature of AS... and it seems to be um, implementation challenged at the moment.

    </strong><hr></blockquote>



    Yeah, we lost something good there.



    [quote]<strong>

    - Man page complete. Every frigging thing should have a man page. Every command that can be executed, every API for BSD/Mach, and CoreFoundation....

    </strong><hr></blockquote>



    You should be happier with 10.2 then.



    [quote]<strong>

    - Integrate the man pages into the 'Apple' help pages. If I hit help & ask about diskmounting, I want the 'easy' answers we already get... and the tougher 'here's some references you might want to read' sort of answers.

    </strong><hr></blockquote>



    Nice idea - send it as feedback.



    [quote]<strong>

    - SystemStarter completely replaces rc. And make SystemStarter able to restart 'affected' parts of the system without rebooting the entire machine. Like an 'iTools' updater should NEVER require a reboot. Even Quicktime shouldn't. There's no solid reason to reboot the machine unless the kernal itself is changed - which is much rarer.

    </strong><hr></blockquote>



    Actually, this was recently discussed on macosx-talk list, and some Apple folk gave some pretty good reasons why some upgrades are just better off rebooting. Like did you know that iTunes3 includes a new KEXT for the iPod? It could be loaded in dynamically, but the old iPod driver approach (a user-land app and crufty kernel code chunk) was *just* odd enough that they felt it was easier to just reboot than to try and accomodate all the possible scenarios of connected/unconnected/mounted/unmounted/inuse/open files that could pop up. They're much happier with the new approach, because it does allow for clean dynamic un/reload of any new KEXTs.



    Sometimes the most innocuous looking updates really do require a reboot.



    Office, however... grrrrr....



    [quote]<strong>

    - The meta-data as discussed above... but I hope it's all an open XML file from a command-line viewpoint.

    </strong><hr></blockquote>



    Er, you want an XML file to accompany each file? Oy. Updating the filesystem to incorporate this information as a file fork would be better, providing that the fork is editable directly by XML tools.



    [quote]<strong>

    - Use the (*)(*) frameworks! </strong><hr></blockquote>



    Breasts.framework?!? WHERE? (Must be o' them PrivateFrameworks.)



    [quote]<strong>The key to long-term backwards compatibility for a very large number of unix apps is access to differing versions of the same library. Frameworks provide a large piece of 'solution', though they could use some upgrading. Check /System/Library/Frameworks/JavaVM.framework/Versions, where there's currently (10.1.5) 3 different versions of the Java stuff -&gt; this rocks!

    </strong><hr></blockquote>



    Yes, indeed, this does rocketh, and is one of the most powerful bits of infrastructure MacOS X has, and despite it being around since about 1986 (NeXT guys kicked ass), no other Unix implementation has apparently been able to make it work. Go us. This is what gives MacOS X a huge leg up on other Unixen wrt backwards compatibility. Massive upgrade to the system someday? (Say, 11.0?) No problem, keep the old frameworks around, and the apps don't care. They'll still work.





    [quote]<strong>

    - Upgrade the linker. 'ld' needs some work. It's open source, go

    </strong><hr></blockquote>



    Wait, grasshopper, I think you'll be pleased with the new gcc3 package.
  • Reply 29 of 37
    frawgzfrawgz Posts: 547member
    [quote]Originally posted by Kickaha:

    <strong>Power support: expecting this any day now, what with XServe hitting the market. It may, you realize, require new hardware to be possible.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Scheduled startups are possible in OS 9 now. I'm still awaiting their return to the Mac now that I rarely boot into 9.
  • Reply 30 of 37
    eddieeddie Posts: 9member
    [quote]Originally posted by Nevyn:

    <strong>

    - AppleScript turned into a fully capable 'shell script' language as sh/ksh/bash/etc. Likewise, make the standard shell scripts capable of issuing appleevents... and RECORDING them. Recording is by far the best feature of AS... and it seems to be um, implementation challenged at the moment.

    </strong><hr></blockquote>



    Currently you can write AppleScripts that include shell scripts in them. Here's an example... (ooh free code)



    on idle

    try

    activate

    do shell script "curl <a href="http://somesite.com/index.html"; target="_blank">http://somesite.com/index.html</a>; -o\\"/Volumes/myidisk/Sites/site.html\\""

    return(10)

    end try

    end idle



    This downloads a web page every ten minutes to a file names "site.html." I don't know if this answers your question, but yes Virginia, you can run shell scripts using AppleScript. Now I wish I could still record scripts. Back to 9 machine, I guess.



    p.s. this is the core of my project to access my home web site (on an iBook) using a dynamic ip address on DSL. So far, my first implementation works. Now to replace my iDisk with an FTP solution...



    ----

    Still waiting for the day when Services take the Apple world by storm! Imagine all iApps donating their "Services" to any app. I see a day when applications of all races, Carbon, and Cocoa can access Services from the iApps. I have a dream. I recall reading an article from a NeXT user talking about being able to scan in photo into Mail merely by accessing the Services menu to access the scanner. Imagine the Photoshop Import menu available as a Service, or other functions! Imagine being in iPhoto. You're staring blankly at a photo thinking, "Man I'd like to export this using the 'Save to Web' feature in Photoshop." Go to Services, and Photoshop, then choose "Save to Web." Nice.



    [ 07-24-2002: Message edited by: eddie ]</p>
  • Reply 31 of 37
    Regarding "looking behind windows," an often-overlooked feature in OS X and earlier is command-dragging a window. This lets you move it without bringing it to the front, so you can, say, move a whole stack of windows out of the way to see something, without bringing any of them to the front. Handy. The only snag is that command-clicking on the title of Finder windows brings up a pop-up menu. Just avoid clicking on the title.
  • Reply 32 of 37
    [quote]Originally posted by frawgz:

    Scheduled startups are possible in OS 9 now. I'm still awaiting their return to the Mac now that I rarely boot into 9.<hr></blockquote>



    I know this is a serious-*ss kludge work-around, but couldn't you setup an Applescript to set your OS 9 partition to be your reboot partition, then when you power off, have your computer use your OS 9 scheduled startup prefs, boot into 9, then run a script to setup your computer to boot into OS X, then reboot....



    ?



    I'm not sure if it's worth all that, but isn't it at least technically possible?
  • Reply 33 of 37
    bigbluebigblue Posts: 341member
    Software:

    I *would* like theme's.

    Or at least two of them: the current aqua and a new plain, sober one. It's too much eye candy now. Thing is: creative people (an important group for Apple) DON'T like all those colors and shade's when they're at work. Optical too distracting

    Platinum was nice, and I liked the SGI IRIX theme too. Nice 'n snug



    Hardware:

    Three button mouse AND a scrollwheel. So we can finally stop buying a thirth-party mouse each time we buy a Mac ! <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
  • Reply 34 of 37
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    [quote]Originally posted by maxgraphic:

    <strong>Regarding "looking behind windows," an often-overlooked feature in OS X and earlier is command-dragging a window. This lets you move it without bringing it to the front, so you can, say, move a whole stack of windows out of the way to see something, without bringing any of them to the front. Handy. The only snag is that command-clicking on the title of Finder windows brings up a pop-up menu. Just avoid clicking on the title.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    I believe this is fixed in the 10.2 Finder.



    [quote]Originally posted by BigBlue:

    <strong>

    Software:

    I *would* like theme's.

    Or at least two of them: the current aqua and a new plain, sober one. It's too much eye candy now. Thing is: creative people (an important group for Apple) DON'T like all those colors and shade's when they're at work. Optical too distracting</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Hence Graphite. It's grey. Just like Platinum, but with less of it... meaning more neutral whitespace.

    [quote]<strong>Platinum was nice, and I liked the SGI IRIX theme too. Nice 'n snug</strong><hr></blockquote>



    I have to say that after having used MacOS X for a while, the Platinum theme just screams BLUEGREY at me. It's *not* a pure grey, AFAICT. Seems very blue... which is ironic, given the preponderance of blue in MacOS X.



    Now NeXT... *there* was a nice elegant little UI.



    [quote]<strong>Hardware:

    Three button mouse AND a scrollwheel. So we can finally stop buying a thirth-party mouse each time we buy a Mac !</strong><hr></blockquote>



    As a BTO option? Sure. As the default? Nope.



    Why? Developers, developers, developers. And yes, I mean the kind that MS encourages... the ones that, when given just *two* buttons, find ways to make commands available *only* through the second button. They appear no where else in the UI, anywhere. Bad. See, contextual menu items are, by their very definition, hidden until you're hovering over the 'correct' datatype to bring up that action in the menu. So how is a user supposed to find these actions? Apple has a very good and very strong idea in *forcing* developers to assume a one-button mouse. It encourages and enforces a certain elegance to the UI design that Windows and X11 lack. It's not the different nature of the developers (to some extent it is, but not much), instead it's making them think within certain guidelines and restrictions and come up with clever ways to produce the functionality they need instead of just taking the easy and lazy way out and saying "Oh, we'll just add that to a right-click menu somewhere."
  • Reply 35 of 37
    nevynnevyn Posts: 360member
    [quote]Originally posted by eddie:

    <strong>



    Currently you can write AppleScripts that include shell scripts in them. Here's an example... (ooh free code)

    </strong><hr></blockquote>



    Cool... (& thanks for the code!) but I was looking for replacing actual shell scripts with AppleScripts...



    I've been informed that I should be able to do this by starting my file "#!/usr/bin/osascript", which would make sense.



    Much more upset by the current usefulness of recording. Sigh.
  • Reply 36 of 37
    defiantdefiant Posts: 4,876member
    it won't make me coffee. damn !



  • Reply 37 of 37
    johnsonwaxjohnsonwax Posts: 462member
    Post Jaguar items I'd like:
    • File Metadata (Dublin Core + extensions) Huge, huge, huge. I can't tell you how much damage I could do with this...

    • File bundles. Could handle versioning and alternate formats (would be nice to have a PDF saved out with every Word file). Handle it just like app bundles.

    • Window transparency (grab titlebar + scrollwheel to adjust translucency, snap back to opaque when you release)

    • Toolbar scripts as standard in the API. I want to be able to plunk an AS in any toolbar.

    • Information wells. Drag/drop text, files, etc. to a well to be copied/moved/linked to another location. Could be a part of the dock.

    • Cocoa hooks for Python (ala Applescript Studio)

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