If you can do these things on your phone, what're you complaining about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacOldTimer
I would call all of the "Features" that DistortedLoop pointed out to be very innovative and if I'd known I could do all these things I would have Jail Broke my phone in a heartbeat.
I have plenty of applications from the generous jailbreak community that add functionality that Apple refuses to. I can copy and paste on my iPhone, I can send streaming video via Qik, I can take video captures with Cycorder, I can take pictures in burst mode with Snapture, and I can run whatever app I want in background mode. None of that is pirated software, and none of that is available on the App Store. On top of that, I have a much improved access to the device for backup and restore of apps (use rsync over wifi) and a better settings control.
I'd actually purchase another iPhone if Apple got off their Ass and INNOVATED some of the above or allowed it on their POS phone.
... makes me think that the EFF still seems to cling to the old model where a device and it's software are two separate things as if we were all back in the days of Unix terminals and 286's.
Apparently Apple still thinks that too, considering how strongly it's touting the App Store. TV ads and now the Apple Store redesign all pitch the idea that each user can modify their iPhone to their needs. This pretty much shows that the physical device and the software are wholly independent in that one can be heavily modified while the other remains static.
....of course until Apple sees that Jailbreaking might cost them some money. Then suddenly the software and the hardware are completely tied together and need to be kept as-is.
From how I read the complaint from EFF they want Apple to be forced to allow jailbreaking in certain circumstances. This leaves Apple officially supporting jailbreaking when it is not in line with their business model.
No, it means Apple would be prevented from taking legal action against Jailbreakers and Jailbreak software developers. That's a far cry from "supporting" Jailbreaking.
They aren't telling what you can and cannot read. They are telling you what content they will support. Think about it from a more extreme example for a moment: should Apple hardcore pornographic novelettes on the device because of a perversisn of Free Speech deems that any company should be required to distribute any text that one wishes? I doubt you would agree with that. While the word 'fuck' is quite tame compared to my example Apple has to draw the line somewhere, and they are within their rights to do so. There is an open Internet that the iPhone will access without discrimantion*.
Still, an occasional fleeting profanity is so far from pornography that it's not funny. I understand they have to choose a line, but that's more than just prudish. At that point, they seem to be catering to a minority that are more concerned with making other people follow their own moral rules than anything else.
Still, an occasional fleeting profanity is so far from pornography that it's not funny. I understand they have to choose a line, but that's more than just prudish. At that point, they seem to be catering to a minority that are more concerned with making other people follow their own moral rules than anything else.
i agree with that 100%. Especially when you consider the number of iTunes Store songs with an explicit label on them. I also presume that they sell audiobooks that say the word 'fuck'.
There are double standards on both sides. The EFF have a point but only up to a point. They are defending the right to use the device as you want and with your carrier of choice which is what jailbreaking and unlocking will do. The side effect is piracy. They know this but the "freedom" choice is their main thrust while willingly ignoring the piracy. Not everyone will be moral here and stick to what the main principal is.
Apple also are guilty of double standards. Yes they want to protect the phone, keep support costs down and make sure people get paid what they are rightfully owed for their work. No problem there. However my main difficulty here is twofold. I want apps they will not allow or currently there is no solution for and secondly I want to run my phone using the network operator I have which is paid for by my employer.
Now, I was extremely fortunate to get an iPhone for free. Long story but in a nutshell our Mobile Contract Supplier got one for a customer who returned it and they did not know what to do with the thing. The Account Manager knows I support a lot of Macs and am a "Mac Head" so offered it to me for free. Very generous of him. It is Unlocked and Jailbroken ONLY for the two reasons mentioned above. So, nagromme, I take major issue with you claiming that 99.9% of the time people like me are using pirated apps. The statistic is in your head and I know of know user myself who have pirated apps on their jailbroken phones. I am not saying it does not happen but please do not lump me in with the pirates and use a seriously ridiculous statistic.
NasserAE, your information is correct and again I am sure people are using Crackulous, however I am not one of them. I think the point that was being made after was in your post you gave people the information to know how to do it. If I wanted to Google is my friend and I could have worked it out for myself but I have no intention of doing so.
DistortedLoop hits the nail on the head for me. I want to send MMS messages, use my camera to record movies, copy and paste, didn't realise Qik existed for the iPhone and so on. However my Nokia N95 8GB will handle that for me if I want and at much better quality (bar copy and paste) but THOSE are the things I want to do. I am positive Apple will eventually offer those features or allow them to be sold, until such times I feel perfectly within my rights to get those apps from the non-approved ways and have the freedom to switch my SIM between my phones when it suits me for my particular needs.
I don't pirate, nor do I condone it. So while I agree the the basics of the EFF argument the problem is the morality issue of the individual. None of us are Angels.
That argument seems a bit out of wack. Is there a similar certification program for writing Mac apps? How many Mac apps out there are responsible for tarnishing Apple's Mac platform because of uncertified programmers? How many of those users actually blame Apple for issues caused by the rogue apps?
All analogies fail eventually, but in this one, yes there is a way for Apple to certify that the app you download has passed some semblance of rigor - and that's through the App Store. Yes, some stupid ones have fallen through the cracks, and no, not everyone agrees on the limits Apple places on background processes and apps that compete with OS-supplied functions. But caveat emptor like everything else, you can largely trust what you get from the store to not brick your device or do something nefarious. There's plenty of innovation in the app store offerings, and plenty of money to be made. I still don't see a compelling argument for those who want to distribute outside the store. Apple as I understand it is simply trying to use any available argument for saying we can't control what you do, but don't come crying to us when a rogue app is broken by a software update. EFF have done some nice work, but Apple apparently needs a bigger than usual door to slam on this, and DCMA is one to try.
This is good news. Apple needs to stop taking a totalitarian approach. If it's good enough for normal computers its good enough for phones. All their arguments are utter bullshit designed to give them maximum control and maximum revenue.
It has led us to where we are today and I am not displeased with their products.
So which is it? Topple the totalitarian's approach or let them have maximum control and maximum revenue? The later got us here today.
Apple has done nothing to threaten or stop jailbreaking. No company would want it's hands completely tied against the ability to bring a suit in what it believes as an unfair abuse of it's product.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktappe
No, it means Apple would be prevented from taking legal action against Jailbreakers and Jailbreak software developers. That's a far cry from "supporting" Jailbreaking.
I agree. Their is a contradictory and inconsistent standard being applied. You can find strong sexual themes and course language in other iTunes content: movies, music, and podcasts.
Why Apple would decide to apply more stringent standards to iPhone apps. You are free to make web apps and distribute anything you want. I would imagine Apple will loosen up as time goes on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
Still, an occasional fleeting profanity is so far from pornography that it's not funny. I understand they have to choose a line, but that's more than just prudish. At that point, they seem to be catering to a minority that are more concerned with making other people follow their own moral rules than anything else.
It has led us to where we are today and I am not displeased with their products.
So which is it? Topple the totalitarian's approach or let them have maximum control and maximum revenue? The later got us here today.
Where is that, with an unstable operating system, Safari is a joke for a browser and we get little boxes on the screen everytime their is any video content but YouTube and QuickTime.
The 3G is the same phone as the original with the exception of a bad network.
GPS is a joke. You can watch a little blue dot on your map as you drive. Oh, and there are 1000 apps that tag your location and tell people where you are.
If I want people to know where I'm at I'll text them.
I feel strongly in Apples favor, just like in the case of Psystar open computing. In this digital age people have begun to confuse what they can and cant do. Because of the lack of limitation digital technologies offer.
It is my opinion that is Apple builds a product with the intention of having it be a closed environment. Where you can only get things to add to it in a closed environment even IF because of the digital style of the technology it is Possible to work around this. It doesnt mean that the technical limitations were not intended.
Therefore when someone says: I dont want a company telling me what I can and cant do with something that I OWN.
The company is not telling you what you can or cant do within the boundaries in which the product was designed to be operated.
Do you get mad because you cant instal third party apps on say your house phone. The point being that products are designed with specifications in mind, and there is a reason for that.
Now as far as the adult content legally through iTunes. this I feel could be changed and should. I think the iTunes store could have a really good adult movie (porn) business.
One which say only works with the hook up of a credit card which pretty much certifies your over the age of 18 so i think there is a big possibility there.
You didn't use the forum's method for displaying a quote... you didn't even use quotation marks. It's not surprising that not everyone understood what you were on about.
Look, OldTimer, feel free to keep on trolling but there is no need to be rude. Especially when the mistake is yours.
You didn't use the forum's method for displaying a quote... you didn't even use quotation marks. It's not surprising that not everyone understood what you were on about.
Look, OldTimer, feel free to keep on trolling but there is no need to be rude. Especially when the mistake is yours.
And why is it every time a fan boy is pissed off they use the word "Troll".
I used quotes in my reply so you could understand my point.
Perhaps its because I'm in New York, but I've seen the 14 year old kid with three major credit cards in his wallet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by talkshowonmute
Now as far as the adult content legally through iTunes. this I feel could be changed and should. I think the iTunes store could have a really good adult movie (porn) business.
One which say only works with the hook up of a credit card which pretty much certifies your over the age of 18 so i think there is a big possibility there.
Comments
I would call all of the "Features" that DistortedLoop pointed out to be very innovative and if I'd known I could do all these things I would have Jail Broke my phone in a heartbeat.
I have plenty of applications from the generous jailbreak community that add functionality that Apple refuses to. I can copy and paste on my iPhone, I can send streaming video via Qik, I can take video captures with Cycorder, I can take pictures in burst mode with Snapture, and I can run whatever app I want in background mode. None of that is pirated software, and none of that is available on the App Store. On top of that, I have a much improved access to the device for backup and restore of apps (use rsync over wifi) and a better settings control.
I'd actually purchase another iPhone if Apple got off their Ass and INNOVATED some of the above or allowed it on their POS phone.
... makes me think that the EFF still seems to cling to the old model where a device and it's software are two separate things as if we were all back in the days of Unix terminals and 286's.
Apparently Apple still thinks that too, considering how strongly it's touting the App Store. TV ads and now the Apple Store redesign all pitch the idea that each user can modify their iPhone to their needs. This pretty much shows that the physical device and the software are wholly independent in that one can be heavily modified while the other remains static.
....of course until Apple sees that Jailbreaking might cost them some money. Then suddenly the software and the hardware are completely tied together and need to be kept as-is.
Hypocrisy run amok.
From how I read the complaint from EFF they want Apple to be forced to allow jailbreaking in certain circumstances. This leaves Apple officially supporting jailbreaking when it is not in line with their business model.
No, it means Apple would be prevented from taking legal action against Jailbreakers and Jailbreak software developers. That's a far cry from "supporting" Jailbreaking.
They aren't telling what you can and cannot read. They are telling you what content they will support. Think about it from a more extreme example for a moment: should Apple hardcore pornographic novelettes on the device because of a perversisn of Free Speech deems that any company should be required to distribute any text that one wishes? I doubt you would agree with that. While the word 'fuck' is quite tame compared to my example Apple has to draw the line somewhere, and they are within their rights to do so. There is an open Internet that the iPhone will access without discrimantion*.
Still, an occasional fleeting profanity is so far from pornography that it's not funny. I understand they have to choose a line, but that's more than just prudish. At that point, they seem to be catering to a minority that are more concerned with making other people follow their own moral rules than anything else.
Still, an occasional fleeting profanity is so far from pornography that it's not funny. I understand they have to choose a line, but that's more than just prudish. At that point, they seem to be catering to a minority that are more concerned with making other people follow their own moral rules than anything else.
i agree with that 100%. Especially when you consider the number of iTunes Store songs with an explicit label on them. I also presume that they sell audiobooks that say the word 'fuck'.
There are double standards on both sides. The EFF have a point but only up to a point. They are defending the right to use the device as you want and with your carrier of choice which is what jailbreaking and unlocking will do. The side effect is piracy. They know this but the "freedom" choice is their main thrust while willingly ignoring the piracy. Not everyone will be moral here and stick to what the main principal is.
Apple also are guilty of double standards. Yes they want to protect the phone, keep support costs down and make sure people get paid what they are rightfully owed for their work. No problem there. However my main difficulty here is twofold. I want apps they will not allow or currently there is no solution for and secondly I want to run my phone using the network operator I have which is paid for by my employer.
Now, I was extremely fortunate to get an iPhone for free. Long story but in a nutshell our Mobile Contract Supplier got one for a customer who returned it and they did not know what to do with the thing. The Account Manager knows I support a lot of Macs and am a "Mac Head" so offered it to me for free. Very generous of him. It is Unlocked and Jailbroken ONLY for the two reasons mentioned above. So, nagromme, I take major issue with you claiming that 99.9% of the time people like me are using pirated apps. The statistic is in your head and I know of know user myself who have pirated apps on their jailbroken phones. I am not saying it does not happen but please do not lump me in with the pirates and use a seriously ridiculous statistic.
NasserAE, your information is correct and again I am sure people are using Crackulous, however I am not one of them. I think the point that was being made after was in your post you gave people the information to know how to do it. If I wanted to Google is my friend and I could have worked it out for myself but I have no intention of doing so.
DistortedLoop hits the nail on the head for me. I want to send MMS messages, use my camera to record movies, copy and paste, didn't realise Qik existed for the iPhone and so on. However my Nokia N95 8GB will handle that for me if I want and at much better quality (bar copy and paste) but THOSE are the things I want to do. I am positive Apple will eventually offer those features or allow them to be sold, until such times I feel perfectly within my rights to get those apps from the non-approved ways and have the freedom to switch my SIM between my phones when it suits me for my particular needs.
I don't pirate, nor do I condone it. So while I agree the the basics of the EFF argument the problem is the morality issue of the individual. None of us are Angels.
That argument seems a bit out of wack. Is there a similar certification program for writing Mac apps? How many Mac apps out there are responsible for tarnishing Apple's Mac platform because of uncertified programmers? How many of those users actually blame Apple for issues caused by the rogue apps?
All analogies fail eventually, but in this one, yes there is a way for Apple to certify that the app you download has passed some semblance of rigor - and that's through the App Store. Yes, some stupid ones have fallen through the cracks, and no, not everyone agrees on the limits Apple places on background processes and apps that compete with OS-supplied functions. But caveat emptor like everything else, you can largely trust what you get from the store to not brick your device or do something nefarious. There's plenty of innovation in the app store offerings, and plenty of money to be made. I still don't see a compelling argument for those who want to distribute outside the store. Apple as I understand it is simply trying to use any available argument for saying we can't control what you do, but don't come crying to us when a rogue app is broken by a software update. EFF have done some nice work, but Apple apparently needs a bigger than usual door to slam on this, and DCMA is one to try.
This is good news. Apple needs to stop taking a totalitarian approach. If it's good enough for normal computers its good enough for phones. All their arguments are utter bullshit designed to give them maximum control and maximum revenue.
It has led us to where we are today and I am not displeased with their products.
So which is it? Topple the totalitarian's approach or let them have maximum control and maximum revenue? The later got us here today.
No, it means Apple would be prevented from taking legal action against Jailbreakers and Jailbreak software developers. That's a far cry from "supporting" Jailbreaking.
Why Apple would decide to apply more stringent standards to iPhone apps. You are free to make web apps and distribute anything you want. I would imagine Apple will loosen up as time goes on.
Still, an occasional fleeting profanity is so far from pornography that it's not funny. I understand they have to choose a line, but that's more than just prudish. At that point, they seem to be catering to a minority that are more concerned with making other people follow their own moral rules than anything else.
If you can do these things on your phone, what're you complaining about.
I can't and you should read my post a little clearer before getting your apple pajamas in a bunch.
I was quoting another use who said all these features are available yet Apple choses not to allow them on the iCrap Phone.
It has led us to where we are today and I am not displeased with their products.
So which is it? Topple the totalitarian's approach or let them have maximum control and maximum revenue? The later got us here today.
Where is that, with an unstable operating system, Safari is a joke for a browser and we get little boxes on the screen everytime their is any video content but YouTube and QuickTime.
The 3G is the same phone as the original with the exception of a bad network.
GPS is a joke. You can watch a little blue dot on your map as you drive. Oh, and there are 1000 apps that tag your location and tell people where you are.
If I want people to know where I'm at I'll text them.
The iPhone has become a gaming iJOKE.
I can't and you should read my post a little clearer before getting your apple pajamas in a bunch. I was quoting another use ....
Perhaps YOU should format your posts a little more clearly? It was not apparent that you were quoting anyone.
It is my opinion that is Apple builds a product with the intention of having it be a closed environment. Where you can only get things to add to it in a closed environment even IF because of the digital style of the technology it is Possible to work around this. It doesnt mean that the technical limitations were not intended.
Therefore when someone says: I dont want a company telling me what I can and cant do with something that I OWN.
The company is not telling you what you can or cant do within the boundaries in which the product was designed to be operated.
Do you get mad because you cant instal third party apps on say your house phone. The point being that products are designed with specifications in mind, and there is a reason for that.
Now as far as the adult content legally through iTunes. this I feel could be changed and should. I think the iTunes store could have a really good adult movie (porn) business.
One which say only works with the hook up of a credit card which pretty much certifies your over the age of 18 so i think there is a big possibility there.
Perhaps YOU should format your posts a little more clearly? It was not apparent that you were quoting anyone.
Then YOU apparently can't read. Is that clear enough?
Then YOU apparently can't read. Is that clear enough?
No it's not clear. Your original post
You didn't use the forum's method for displaying a quote... you didn't even use quotation marks. It's not surprising that not everyone understood what you were on about.
Look, OldTimer, feel free to keep on trolling but there is no need to be rude. Especially when the mistake is yours.
No it's not clear. Your original post
You didn't use the forum's method for displaying a quote... you didn't even use quotation marks. It's not surprising that not everyone understood what you were on about.
Look, OldTimer, feel free to keep on trolling but there is no need to be rude. Especially when the mistake is yours.
And why is it every time a fan boy is pissed off they use the word "Troll".
I used quotes in my reply so you could understand my point.
And why is it every time a fan boy is pissed off they use the word "Troll".
And why do you use the word "fanboy" every time someone disagrees with your opinion?
Now as far as the adult content legally through iTunes. this I feel could be changed and should. I think the iTunes store could have a really good adult movie (porn) business.
One which say only works with the hook up of a credit card which pretty much certifies your over the age of 18 so i think there is a big possibility there.