You can blame me. The extended keyboard is a beast. I have the white plastic extended keyboard and love it. Can't stand the large aluminum, don't need the wifi. I'd been saying this option has been missing since the day they intro'd the other two.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KindredMac
Who honestly asked for this keyboard option?
No one.
While a lot of us have been asking for a wireless keyboard with full extended functions.
Who says that the majority of customers care about a number pad? You imply because the vast majority of desktop computers ship with one means that the majority of people actually want/need them. If the industry standard is that a computer has Windows installed, I couldn't care less about industry standards.
Good- then stay in your minority. You've probably never even entered a number unless you're typing in the date.
Why is apple dicking around with a non-functional keyboard and us? This keyboard selection is abismal. It should be full size and wireless! In typical apple fashion: apple gives you useful feature and takes it away. And then calls it an added bonus. This fiasco is remeniscent of FW400.
Those were the old days...the Mac shipped with the mouse, but you had the option of buying the keyboard you desired. Most purchased the still amazing Apple Extended Keyboard II, which I still have on my classic LC 575.
Why is apple dicking around with a non-functional keyboard and us? This keyboard selection is abismal. It should be full size and wireless! In typical apple fashion: apple gives you useful feature and takes it away. And then calls it an added bonus. This fiasco is remeniscent of FW400.
I know and why was our choice to get a wireless keyboard with a numberpad taken away to begin with?
I purchased an iMac from an Apple Store. The sales guy asked me at the last moment if I wanted the Bluetooth? It was only fifty bucks more and I said sure. I made the mistake of not looking at it first. I get home to find out there is no numeric pad. So now if I want that option, it is going to cost me another fifty bucks to get the full-sized USB keyboard. My Bluetooth MIghty Mouse has been replaced once. The scroll wheel died. Same has happened to my second Mighty Mouse, which is gathering dust in a drawer. I am using an old Microsoft Mouse and it gives me some issues. I would use the numeric pad imbedded mouse feature some of the time, if I had the full-sized keyboard. Used it for quite some time back in the Windows 98/Me days. There is always something that will get under my skin with Apple. Guess the same is true with Microsoft as well. I would be stunned if Dell ever started to do dumb things with their keyboards though.
The Mighty Mouse sucks big time. They should have left that piece of crap out of the box and dropped the price by $50. Now that makes more sense than this keyboard B.S.
teckstud, learning to touch type with and without the numeric pad are both worthwhile for students. As a programmer, effective use of the number row is invaluable when coding. It is way quicker than moving my hands to the numeric pad. So much so that I have a keyboard without the numeric pad specifically for this task. This keyboard is ~ $150 and is actually pretty common in the corporate environment. It has been around for years and is offered through most ergonomic oriented catalogs.
I can understand your adamance about what should be Apple's default hardware config. But you also seem to have an unhealthy level of outright hatred for the concept that some people don't need or use the numeric pad.
We're not out to get you, you know.
(And yes I recognize that many, perhaps even most, users would prefer a numeric pad.)
Instead of giving us a new keyboard that nobody really wanted, why not give us a mighty mouse with a track ball that doesn't gum up and actually allows for a consistent right click ?
Naah - that would be too useful !
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud
The Mighty Mouse sucks big time. They should have left that piece of crap out of the box and dropped the price by $50. Now that makes more sense than this keyboard B.S.
I agree that the so-called Mighty mouse is a chore to use. The right-click is hard to activate, and the left-side alternate button keeps getting activated too easily! Yuk! I even called Apple support to complain about how right click must be done deliberately on the very front edge - they sent a new one, but same problem.
For me, Numeric Keypad and the dedicated Page Up/Down are essential, And the Real Delete (tm) key! Yah Baby!
I use alpha-side numbers sometimes, but when I have a bunch of numeric data, or even just a phone or cc number, I prefer the numeric keypad.
The option I'd like is: No Apple Keyboard, No Apple Mouse - let me save the $ and apply to a Logitech Wave keyboard and mouse... just me though.
The option I'd like is: No Apple Keyboard, No Apple Mouse - let me save the $ and apply to a Logitech Wave keyboard and mouse... just me though.
Me too. I always buy 3rd party mice anyway.
But Apple's motivation for shipping at least a minimal keyboard and mouse in every box is understandable, especially with all in one computers like the iMac. Out of the box it is guaranteed to not be relegated to paperweight status for lack of input devices.
Good- then stay in your minority. You've probably never even entered a number unless you're typing in the date.
Are you sitting at supermarket checkout counter, or what is your obsession with entering numbers? Those are about the only people I know that can touch-type on a number pad. And typing by sight on number pad is slower than touch-typing numbers on a normal keyboard.
Most people that deal with numbers and computers are either in business of calculating numbers or of processing numbers that automated systems have measured or gathered in other ways.
(And yes I recognize that many, perhaps even most, users would prefer a numeric pad.)
Thanks I appreciate your reasonableness.
All I'm saying is that from a financial/ business point of view, a number pad is almost mandatory. You simply can enter numbers and do other things faster. It's a bad call to give out less - especially for something that, even if you don't use, has the potential to assist someone who can.
But whatever- I would almost rather not have either keyboard or mouse and let them $100 charge less.
But Apple's motivation for shipping at least a minimal keyboard and mouse in every box is understandable, especially with all in one computers like the iMac. Out of the box it is guaranteed to not be relegated to paperweight status for lack of input devices.
Valid point, it is understandable, since they do want the thing to work right away...
But there my Mighty Mouse sits over on the shelf, gathering dust (i really should put it in a box, or something, since I get sad every time I happen to look at its glistening white...
But how I wish their keyboards and mice were more ergonomic and usable.
Jeesh, Apple - aren't you supposed to be the more-user-friendly computer company? Then shouldn't the primary human input devices of keyboard and mouse be more user friendly? And not looking like they are designed just to win an art museum award?
One of the activities I do when setting up a user with a new Mac and its no-so-mighty mouse, is to remind them that any USB mouse can work - and that they may find a logitech or other brand mouse to be more usable.
The other thing I do is to recommend the purchase of USBOverdrive software, as I have found it to give much smoother mouse action and movement control (on any mouse) than the standard Apple control panel/system pref.
You can't be that clueless! Why else would we be protesting?
A poll would probably favor your side of this debate. AI forum users are probably more avid numeric pad users than the general computing populace. But either way, your distain for the suggestion is illogical and baffling.
The mere existence of protesting is meaningless on the internet. There's a petition for just about anything and everything nowadays. No matter which subject you choose there are always adamant people ranting endlessly.
The assertion, that the numeric pad should be included in the default config, is quite supportable on reasoned arguments. You might convince more people of your views by taking that approach.
Would it surprise you to know that I type ampersands, asterisks, parenthesis, (and a many more symbols) 10 times as frequently as numerals? The percentage of users who don't use the numeric pad at all maybe larger than you think. Everyone from email-only-grandma to hard-core code-monkeys can fall into this category.
So while Apple's bundling choices may have been unwise, they aren't as ludicrous as you seem to imply.
Most people that deal with numbers and computers are either in business of calculating numbers or of processing numbers that automated systems have measured or gathered in other ways.
Such as? Now I know you are totally clueless after that statement. Good bye.
Since when have accountants or financial analysts been supplanted by automated systems?
Comments
Who honestly asked for this keyboard option?
No one.
While a lot of us have been asking for a wireless keyboard with full extended functions.
sheesh
Who says that the majority of customers care about a number pad? You imply because the vast majority of desktop computers ship with one means that the majority of people actually want/need them. If the industry standard is that a computer has Windows installed, I couldn't care less about industry standards.
Good- then stay in your minority. You've probably never even entered a number unless you're typing in the date.
Have you ever handled matrices approaching millions of elements?
No , nor have I seen the planet Uranus, as you obviously have.
Those were the old days...the Mac shipped with the mouse, but you had the option of buying the keyboard you desired. Most purchased the still amazing Apple Extended Keyboard II, which I still have on my classic LC 575.
Best. Keyboard. Ever.
200 bucks well spent.
Why is apple dicking around with a non-functional keyboard and us? This keyboard selection is abismal. It should be full size and wireless! In typical apple fashion: apple gives you useful feature and takes it away. And then calls it an added bonus. This fiasco is remeniscent of FW400.
I know and why was our choice to get a wireless keyboard with a numberpad taken away to begin with?
I purchased an iMac from an Apple Store. The sales guy asked me at the last moment if I wanted the Bluetooth? It was only fifty bucks more and I said sure. I made the mistake of not looking at it first. I get home to find out there is no numeric pad. So now if I want that option, it is going to cost me another fifty bucks to get the full-sized USB keyboard. My Bluetooth MIghty Mouse has been replaced once. The scroll wheel died. Same has happened to my second Mighty Mouse, which is gathering dust in a drawer. I am using an old Microsoft Mouse and it gives me some issues. I would use the numeric pad imbedded mouse feature some of the time, if I had the full-sized keyboard. Used it for quite some time back in the Windows 98/Me days. There is always something that will get under my skin with Apple. Guess the same is true with Microsoft as well. I would be stunned if Dell ever started to do dumb things with their keyboards though.
The Mighty Mouse sucks big time. They should have left that piece of crap out of the box and dropped the price by $50. Now that makes more sense than this keyboard B.S.
I can understand your adamance about what should be Apple's default hardware config. But you also seem to have an unhealthy level of outright hatred for the concept that some people don't need or use the numeric pad.
We're not out to get you, you know.
(And yes I recognize that many, perhaps even most, users would prefer a numeric pad.)
Instead of giving us a new keyboard that nobody really wanted, why not give us a mighty mouse with a track ball that doesn't gum up and actually allows for a consistent right click ?
Naah - that would be too useful !
The Mighty Mouse sucks big time. They should have left that piece of crap out of the box and dropped the price by $50. Now that makes more sense than this keyboard B.S.
I agree that the so-called Mighty mouse is a chore to use. The right-click is hard to activate, and the left-side alternate button keeps getting activated too easily! Yuk! I even called Apple support to complain about how right click must be done deliberately on the very front edge - they sent a new one, but same problem.
For me, Numeric Keypad and the dedicated Page Up/Down are essential, And the Real Delete (tm) key! Yah Baby!
I use alpha-side numbers sometimes, but when I have a bunch of numeric data, or even just a phone or cc number, I prefer the numeric keypad.
The option I'd like is: No Apple Keyboard, No Apple Mouse - let me save the $ and apply to a Logitech Wave keyboard and mouse... just me though.
The option I'd like is: No Apple Keyboard, No Apple Mouse - let me save the $ and apply to a Logitech Wave keyboard and mouse... just me though.
Me too. I always buy 3rd party mice anyway.
But Apple's motivation for shipping at least a minimal keyboard and mouse in every box is understandable, especially with all in one computers like the iMac. Out of the box it is guaranteed to not be relegated to paperweight status for lack of input devices.
Good- then stay in your minority. You've probably never even entered a number unless you're typing in the date.
Are you sitting at supermarket checkout counter, or what is your obsession with entering numbers? Those are about the only people I know that can touch-type on a number pad. And typing by sight on number pad is slower than touch-typing numbers on a normal keyboard.
Most people that deal with numbers and computers are either in business of calculating numbers or of processing numbers that automated systems have measured or gathered in other ways.
We're not out to get you, you know.
(And yes I recognize that many, perhaps even most, users would prefer a numeric pad.)
Thanks I appreciate your reasonableness.
All I'm saying is that from a financial/ business point of view, a number pad is almost mandatory. You simply can enter numbers and do other things faster. It's a bad call to give out less - especially for something that, even if you don't use, has the potential to assist someone who can.
But whatever- I would almost rather not have either keyboard or mouse and let them $100 charge less.
Poll: how many of those who prefer to use a number pad are able to touch-type [numbers]?
You can't be that clueless! Why else would we be protesting?
Me too. I always buy 3rd party mice anyway.
But Apple's motivation for shipping at least a minimal keyboard and mouse in every box is understandable, especially with all in one computers like the iMac. Out of the box it is guaranteed to not be relegated to paperweight status for lack of input devices.
Valid point, it is understandable, since they do want the thing to work right away...
But there my Mighty Mouse sits over on the shelf, gathering dust (i really should put it in a box, or something, since I get sad every time I happen to look at its glistening white...
But how I wish their keyboards and mice were more ergonomic and usable.
Jeesh, Apple - aren't you supposed to be the more-user-friendly computer company? Then shouldn't the primary human input devices of keyboard and mouse be more user friendly? And not looking like they are designed just to win an art museum award?
One of the activities I do when setting up a user with a new Mac and its no-so-mighty mouse, is to remind them that any USB mouse can work - and that they may find a logitech or other brand mouse to be more usable.
The other thing I do is to recommend the purchase of USBOverdrive software, as I have found it to give much smoother mouse action and movement control (on any mouse) than the standard Apple control panel/system pref.
You can't be that clueless! Why else would we be protesting?
A poll would probably favor your side of this debate. AI forum users are probably more avid numeric pad users than the general computing populace. But either way, your distain for the suggestion is illogical and baffling.
The mere existence of protesting is meaningless on the internet. There's a petition for just about anything and everything nowadays. No matter which subject you choose there are always adamant people ranting endlessly.
The assertion, that the numeric pad should be included in the default config, is quite supportable on reasoned arguments. You might convince more people of your views by taking that approach.
Would it surprise you to know that I type ampersands, asterisks, parenthesis, (and a many more symbols) 10 times as frequently as numerals? The percentage of users who don't use the numeric pad at all maybe larger than you think. Everyone from email-only-grandma to hard-core code-monkeys can fall into this category.
So while Apple's bundling choices may have been unwise, they aren't as ludicrous as you seem to imply.
Most people that deal with numbers and computers are either in business of calculating numbers or of processing numbers that automated systems have measured or gathered in other ways.
Such as? Now I know you are totally clueless after that statement. Good bye.
Since when have accountants or financial analysts been supplanted by automated systems?