USB 3 test spec to be in Apple's hands by June

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  • Reply 21 of 122
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zunx View Post


    Firewire is far superior to USB in real-world tests. Even Firewire 400 is far superior to USB 2, and Firewire 3200 has been out for months now. Besides, you cannot repair via Target Disk Mode using USB! Apple, bring back the great Firewire to all Macs!



    You may be right but, as we all know too well, the best technology doesn't always succeed in the marketplace. USB has ubiquity going for it and that's a big plus.
  • Reply 22 of 122
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    USB uses optical wires for its speed, but the older USB 2 cables can be used, as the ports have a dual functionality. You can plug either the new optical cable in or the older USB 2. Only USB 2 speeds will be available from the USB 2 cable.



    oh yeah, i knew that part, however i was wondering if it would be possible for Apple to sell a USB 3.0 cable for the older devices (ipod/iphones) and have those connect from the older device into the new computer with usb3.0 ports to make a fast connection, or will the older devices not work with the ports that area on them?
  • Reply 23 of 122
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by L255J View Post


    I don't understand why USB 3 is needed. I've yet to ever, in all my computing days, come anywhere close to the 60 Megabyte per second transfer rate advertised for USB 2. It's never more than...2 Megabytes a second.



    HD content, thats pretty much the single biggest reason, the more we see it and the larger portable drives get, the faster data will need to travel to keep it tolerable.
  • Reply 24 of 122
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zunx View Post


    Besides, you cannot repair via Target Disk Mode using USB! Apple, bring back the great Firewire to all Macs!



    Not Target Disc Mode, but you can boot to any external USB drive, including flash drives, with OS X installed to do any repairs you need. It's quite simple to set up a Time Machine drive with an extra partition with a stripped copy of OS X on it in case something happens.
  • Reply 25 of 122
    The development of USB 3.0 without the "intelligent perhiperal" element is a dealbreaker for me. If Apple is indeed phasing out Firewire (or only designating it for Pro-sumers), then there should be an alternative that delivers the functionality of Firewire's intelligent device management. Gigabit ethernet has its limitations.



    If it requires a hardware step in the process, then that's where I'd like to see Apple and others throw their weight around. USB, as it is now or with 3.0, caters to only casual usage and doesn't offer any steps forward in management of storage, large local file transfers, or power management.
  • Reply 26 of 122
    irelandireland Posts: 17,798member
    UBS 3 is overhyped, just like 802.11n was.
  • Reply 27 of 122
    Will we see USB3 to Firewire and USB3 to eSATA adapters?



    This USB3 sounds like the real deal in terms of a versatile, one-port-fits-all solution, and I hope that Apple can make the most of it.



    It's particularly important to have versatile I/O when Apple still seems to think it's acceptable to ship a pro laptop with only three serial ports. I have four on my current MBP 15 (obviously two firewire and two USB) and I use them all. But with the continuation of the drop hinge at the back for the display preventing any use of the back for I/O, and the new design of the base with side-saddle optical drive and battery and hard drive shutting off any access toward the front of the computer, we really are limited to what Apple can fit on the left hand side of the computer, and that's three serial ports on the 15 inch and four on the 17.



    Hopefully Apple will redesign the display hinge on the pro laptops in order to open the back up again for I/O use, and we won't be worrying about this. But I suspect USB3 is the way for Apple to get out of this bind and get away with limited numbers of ports in their dogged adherence to the current form factor of their computers.
  • Reply 28 of 122
    Only problem is FW3200 may have been finalized, but can you point to any companies selling FW3200 products?!



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zunx View Post


    Firewire is far superior to USB in real-world tests. Even Firewire 400 is far superior to USB 2, and Firewire 3200 has been out for months now. Besides, you cannot repair via Target Disk Mode using USB! Apple, bring back the great Firewire to all Macs!



  • Reply 29 of 122
    Considering that real world speed tests show USB 2.0 delivering no more than half of its promised speed, any bets on how much of this promised 5 gigabits USB 3 will actually have? I think it'll be noticeably slower than Firewire 3200, whenever these new devices start shipping that is.



    Also, now that Apple has shipped a new Mini, with Firewire 800 no less, can we stop with the "firewire is dying" meme? Only the MacBook and MacBook Air lack firewire, and neither has the space for it.
  • Reply 30 of 122
    1394 2008 was IEEE approved 10-21-08, which includes S3200:



    http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freea...number=4659231





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    FW 3200 has NOT been out for months. The spec was released, as was the USB 3 spec, several months ago. Please get your facts straight.



  • Reply 31 of 122
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by libertyforall View Post


    How is it that this article completely ignores the faster FireWire S1600 & S3200?! Read:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firewir...1600_and_S3200



    My bet is Apple will adopt a faster FW after WWDC...



    Will it even be a relevant standard?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zunx View Post


    Firewire is far superior to USB in real-world tests. Even Firewire 400 is far superior to USB 2, and Firewire 3200 has been out for months now. Besides, you cannot repair via Target Disk Mode using USB! Apple, bring back the great Firewire to all Macs!



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    UBS 3 is overhyped, just like 802.11n was.



    I wasn't aware that USB 3 was hyped at all, or very much. I hope that they won't use "SuperSpeed", that sounds pretty tacky.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by photoeditor View Post


    Will we see USB3 to Firewire and USB3 to eSATA adapters?



    This USB3 sounds like the real deal in terms of a versatile, one-port-fits-all solution, and I hope that Apple can make the most of it.



    Converting protocols like that sounds like a bad idea to me. The idea of eSATA was to get as direct to the chipset as possible with a native protocol. I don't know how it would be beneficial to use Firewire over USB other than for just compatibility's sake, it seems you'd negate several benefits of Firewire using it over USB.
  • Reply 32 of 122
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    While no standard has really ever used its full theoretical speed. The problem with 802.11n is the fact that there is no internet service provider that even provides service anywhere near its theoretical speed.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    UBS 3 is overhyped, just like 802.11n was.



  • Reply 33 of 122
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,425member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    UBS 3 is overhyped, just like 802.11n was.



    +1



    11n to me has been a colossal disappointment.
  • Reply 34 of 122
    zunxzunx Posts: 620member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mariofreak85 View Post


    You can do the same task by starting up from the OS X Install DVD. It's slow and annoying, but doable.



    No if the Mac is broken and needs repair. You can do it with Target Disk Mode via Firewire, but not via USB. Think also of DiskWarrior and other repair utilitities open from a Mac to repair other Mac via TDM.
  • Reply 35 of 122
    zunxzunx Posts: 620member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Not Target Disc Mode, but you can boot to any external USB drive, including flash drives, with OS X installed to do any repairs you need. It's quite simple to set up a Time Machine drive with an extra partition with a stripped copy of OS X on it in case something happens.



    No if the Mac is broken and needs repair. See the post above this.
  • Reply 36 of 122
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    While no standard has really ever used its full theoretical speed. The problem with 802.11n is the fact that there is no internet service provider that even provides service anywhere near its theoretical speed.



    There's still LAN use, so you don't have to have all your data on the notebook if you have fast wireless network.



    I have not noticed "n" promoted very strongly for its speed, but rather for its signal stability and better range than its predecessors. I don't know if that actually held up in practice, I am still using "b" and "g" access points, I might have one computer with "n", but I don't know for sure.



    The higher speeds of WiFi are only hit when you're very close to the AP with no interference anyway.
  • Reply 37 of 122
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zunx View Post


    No if the Mac is broken and needs repair. See the post above this.



    If OS X won't boot on your Mac you can boot from an external drive using any of the methods I described above. The only benefit to TDM is being able to use two Macs connected via FW, but I find carrying an external 2.5" HDD that contains a partition with my TM backup less of a chore than carrying an additional cable that I never need.



    Even when I deleted the USB KEXT from the internal drive I was still able to fix my system via USB booting from an external drive.



    Please clarify exactly what you mean, because the only difference between using USB and FW is that you can't use another computer but have to use an OS you've installed on an external drive.
  • Reply 38 of 122
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    No. It works over Ethernet.



    Migration assistant over ethernet sucks beyond belief. The old computer has to be running 10.4.11 with the updated migration assistant. Not to mention if your 10.4 install is plagued by this bug it won't work at all.
  • Reply 39 of 122
    USB 3.0 needs NEW cables and ports. Firewire 1600 and 3200 use the same cables and ports as firewire 800. So all apple needs to do is repace the fire wire 800 chip with a 1600 or 3200 one to make it work.
  • Reply 40 of 122
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    I have not noticed "n" promoted very strongly for its speed, but rather for its signal stability and better range than its predecessors.



    The increased speeds aren't nearly as high as the theoretical speeds that are commonly advertised, but it's high enough to see the increase, but you are correct in that the real benefit is from a more stable connection and a stronger signal for a longer distance, even when using the common 2.4GHz band.
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