All I will say is, there is a new tone at Apple with Steve Jobs gone.
Cook is cooking up something too.
What?
Do you think this initiative was started a few weeks ago? And none of us know exactly how "gone" Steve is. If he's at all well I'm sure he's following what's going on in product development and if able, giving strategic guidance and approval.
So a little early for "The Steve is gone. Long live the new Steve!" don't you think?
someone please look into reports that the 10" screen won't be the usual run of the mill type of lcd screen. I can't remember who said it would be an unusual lcd screen....9to5mac maybe?
Anyways, can someone look into this? OLED perhaps?
Yes but if you're a developer that has iphone apps in the market you're constrained to the UI dimension of the iPhone. If Apple where to come out with a 10" product with iPhone UI the decision would be to either make developers change their UI to meet new dimensions or run the iPhone UI with the same dimensions which begs the question why ship a 10" at all?
This isn't the case at all many iPhone apps would work just fine on a larger screen.
However I can't see a tablet with this screen size being really successful in the market. It is to big for casual handheld use and to small for running Mac OS/X apps. The tablet I'm looking for from Apple would be smaller and run an iPhone OS derived operating system. The goals are two fold, portability and the ability to actually use the thing hand held.
The big fail in a ten inch device is that it won't be manageable as a handheld device. This is the whole point of tablets in my mind and is why iPhone and Touch get used as handhelds so often.
This device might have a saving grace in an OLED screen. This should dramatically increase the angle of view allowing for usage on a table top or other surface. The thing here is that an OLED screen doesn't imply expensive as they actually have the potential for being much cheaper to produce. OLED is an economical posibility if Apple invested in a full blown production line. Such a screen would make for far better delivery of E-Books and journals and news papers.
Even with OLEDs and other advances I still see this screen size as being a bit funky. Of course I've yet to see the value in netbooks and have the same problems with tablets in that size.
I've played with a few different-size netbooks, and 10" seems to me to be the ideal screen size. Anything smaller, and the keyboard and touchpad are too smooshed.
Of course, none of those netbooks had touchscreens, which suggest a tablet device.
Actually I'm pretty sure Asus has Eee convertible - that is, netbook with keyboard and touch screen that can rotate and face-up when closed... making that device both netbook and tablet. Don't know if it is already in sales, though - didn't bother to check. There is also a line of 12" HP notebooks with same feature... they are out of netbook domain, however, Apple's netbook might find them competition price wise...
I can think of thing or two Apple could do to make a difference. For example, they could implement some kind of iPod functionality software in ROM (BIOS), something that can be run even if system is not booted. My HP notebook can show emails that way - ROM based Outlook viewer that does not require Windows to run, so you can look for info in your emails without waiting OS to boot (I guess such feature is also easier on battery power as there are no zillion OS services and processes running in the background). Some interesting things could be done with announced Kindle eBook reader as well...
And of course, ultra-slim all-aluminium netbook could look absolutely great.
There are always way to innovate, perfect or at least differentiate product compared to others in the same segment; question here is, how much effort will Apple make (beside visual factor). Their latest desktop seem like half-hearted effort, but then again, they seem to be much more into notebooks anyway... so here's hope their netbook will really be something desirable and memorable...
This isn't the case at all many iPhone apps would work just fine on a larger screen.
However I can't see a tablet with this screen size being really successful in the market. It is to big for casual handheld use and to small for running Mac OS/X apps. The tablet I'm looking for from Apple would be smaller and run an iPhone OS derived operating system. The goals are two fold, portability and the ability to actually use the thing hand held.
The big fail in a ten inch device is that it won't be manageable as a handheld device. This is the whole point of tablets in my mind and is why iPhone and Touch get used as handhelds so often.
This device might have a saving grace in an OLED screen. This should dramatically increase the angle of view allowing for usage on a table top or other surface. The thing here is that an OLED screen doesn't imply expensive as they actually have the potential for being much cheaper to produce. OLED is an economical posibility if Apple invested in a full blown production line. Such a screen would make for far better delivery of E-Books and journals and news papers.
Even with OLEDs and other advances I still see this screen size as being a bit funky. Of course I've yet to see the value in netbooks and have the same problems with tablets in that size.
Dave
Apple has 2 Operating System platforms: iPhone/iPod Touch and OS X Desktop. There will be no need for a 3rd derivation.
Am I the only one who liked using a Newton's handwriting recognition, and has been waiting for a return of that form factor and input? I'm facing the prospect, with thousands of other physicians, of having to use a keyboard in a clinic room, while pretending to relate to the patient... Give me a notebook with Inkwell, and I'll be writing apps next week to deal with a zillion clinical questions.
someone please look into reports that the 10" screen won't be the usual run of the mill type of lcd screen. I can't remember who said it would be an unusual lcd screen....9to5mac maybe?
Anyways, can someone look into this? OLED perhaps?
I'm not kidding here! Please someone investigate....go go book a flight to Taiwan now right now!!
The big fail in a ten inch device is that it won't be manageable as a handheld device. This is the whole point of tablets in my mind.
Yeah, but this product, like I have been saying for a long time is sort of a new category. The terms couch computer, and table-tablet are still I find the best ways of describing the vision of this device, as I see it. And how it works is by incorporating an extremely well conceived and engineered stand into the hardware, that's capable of being popped in to the device so it's completely out of the way when you need it to be; like when you're sitting back on the couch.
The other factor is thickness and weight, it could be really thin and pretty light, we'll have to see how light it is when it materializes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
This device might have a saving grace in an OLED screen. This should dramatically increase the angle of view allowing for usage on a table top or other surface. The thing here is that an OLED screen doesn't imply expensive as they actually have the potential for being much cheaper to produce. OLED is an economical posibility if Apple invested in a full blown production line. Such a screen would make for far better delivery of E-Books and journals and news papers.
You have a few valid points there, and it would really be a dream display to have on this device. Heck, I've been screaming for it on the iPhone for a while now. It's one of the crucial upgrades I see the iPhone needing. But... don't hold your breath. Apple won't invest in a full production line for OLED displays, and they'll be trying to get away with this LED backlight malarkey (as seen in those awful MacBook displays) for as long as they can.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
Of course I've yet to see the value in netbooks and have the same problems with tablets in that size.
You're not alone in that, Apple doesn't see the value in them. And I certainly don't, having to use one a while back was painful. The tablets you have used in that size before, won't be as thin, as light, or as strong as this one, and they certainly didn't run full Cocoa touch Snow Leopard. "touch the snow"
People should stop calling such a future product a netbook -- because a netbook conjures lightweight but more so, cheap and limited capabilities.
It would be more an iPod touch on steroids - more powerful OS (why not Snow Leopard or a more powerful version of the iPhone OS), more memory than iPod Classic, touch screen, wifi (of course), an answer to kindle, GPS, gaming device and everything else the iPod can do (music, movie, etc.), plus a possibility for telephony (via internet). In other words, a truly multipurpose and very powerful mobile computing device.
A 10-in diagonal screen could be 5.75"x8.5" -- the size of a decent-size (printed) book and larger than usual paperbacks. At this size, it would be Apple's answer to Kindle (and other related single purpose reading device. It cannot only be used as a book reader, it can read anything on the internet. And, if it is powerful enough, it can become a personal virtual library. Such a truly multipurpose and very powerful mobile computing device would become the Kindle killer.
Remember Apple announcing a separate "PRO Games section" -- apart from its standard games apps for the iPhone and iPod touch? The size of the screen plus a powerful OS could be ideal for more professional game apps.
If such a new device can also remotely project to a TV screen (remember Apple partnered with LG?), then the possibilities could be almost everything that one needs electronically for day-to-day multimedia needs.
I could think also of practical uses in industry, like for "delivery" services industries, especially if it has GPS capabilities. Or inventories, or show and tell with patients, or even any small group.
If such truly multipurpose and very powerful mobile computing device has backward compatibility to play all App Store applications, then it would have immediate loyal following from current iPhone and iPod touch owners.
And who said it has to have a built-in keyboard? Why not a "screen keyboard" and a plug-in keyboard for those who want it or may need it for more serious data entries? In the 1990's there were ergonomic keyboards that are in three separate pieces -- so that the design need not be limited to one large keyboard. A better alternative keyboard could fold like an oyster on its own for more compact storage.
Does a portable computing device have to be so limited in the age of cheap screens, RAM chips and disk storage devices?
Apple's answer should be NO.
And if they can come up with a multipurpose and very powerful mobile computing device with features and capabilities outlined below, Apple would not be criticized if it is priced at about $600-800. Those who want cheaper could stick either to the Mac mini or jump ship.
Apple has 2 Operating System platforms: iPhone/iPod Touch and OS X Desktop. There will be no need for a 3rd derivation.
What's need go to do with it? It's not about need. All we need is food and water. It's about have the whole system optimized for the device. It will run OS X, Snow Leopard likely, but also likely a specialized version, especially built for this tablet, and future tablets from Apple. It will most likely run OS X with a custom created full cocoa touch UI, system wide.
What's need go to do with it? It's not about need. All we need is food and water. It's about have the whole system optimized for the device. It will run OS X, Snow Leopard likely, but also likely a specialized version, especially built for this tablet, and future tablets from Apple. It will run a OS X with a custom created cocoa touch UI.
Since it's reportedly coming calendar Q3-2009 and we know Snow Leopard betas have new MultiTouch frameworks I would wager that you are right and this would easily be Snow Leopard-based, which makes sense for a display of that size. This is actually looking to be coming true.
Guys, the name of this "tablet" will be Mac touch. Please, stop with the crumby names.
Again, another very sleek mockup, but I think the Mac Dock is a logistical issue for a touchscreen device.
Besides mistakenly opening an app/file by accident I think having all your Dock icons available like that isn't as beneficial as it is on a non-touchscreen. I think a scrolling bar or some other sort of rotation that allows you to flick to different apps would be more usable on a 10" touchscreen.
Plus, since widescreen is the norm for computer displays height of windows have been compromised (the 13.3" MB display height is shorter than the 12.1" PB display height). I think having the icons at the side (or even in a corner of the side) would make more sense.
Rough example that is surely to be chewed up and spit back out at me: The icons rotate in and out of view from the upper left corner. You can flick the virtual icon wheel lightly with your finger to see different icons that you set in your Dock Wheel, or you drag the Dock Wheel out to make it bigger, thereby seeing more icons in the wheel. Which you can touch to open making the wheel go back to it's default position in the upper right corner or flick to have it rotate if you still have more icons off screen.
Even with OLEDs and other advances I still see this screen size as being a bit funky. Of course I've yet to see the value in netbooks and have the same problems with tablets in that size.
Dave
I agree with you and I've been saying that I expected a 7" screen device.
I based that size on some assumptions about the width of the bezel around that screen and also on assumptions about the CPU/GPU power available, and thus resolution.
So I decided to grab a ruler and cut some paper to 10" diagonal size, with a 16:10 ratio.
It turns out that if the bezel is really thin, as in the iPhone, a 10" diagonal tablet can be hand held comfortably, assuming it's light and thin. It's just on the edge of the comfort zone for my hands (average sized for a male)
I still think a smaller device would be better because a 10.5" diagonal tablet does not fit in a coat pocket. It needs to be around 9" or less.
That this is a touch screen rules out the clamshell "mini Air" netbook some people want to see. However, us "maxi iPod Touch" partisans expecting a 7" device won't get our way either.
Whatever Apple is up to, assuming this information is true, will have some kind of twist. However, I do expect this thing to be very, perhaps shockingly thin.
Oh, and even if Jobs is out of the picture now, I'm sure he had led the development. Apple takes about two years, often longer, to develop products. They've probably had prototypes of this thing since the middle of last year or earlier.
Comments
I know what it is.
All I will say is, there is a new tone at Apple with Steve Jobs gone.
Cook is cooking up something too.
What?
Do you think this initiative was started a few weeks ago? And none of us know exactly how "gone" Steve is. If he's at all well I'm sure he's following what's going on in product development and if able, giving strategic guidance and approval.
So a little early for "The Steve is gone. Long live the new Steve!" don't you think?
someone please look into reports that the 10" screen won't be the usual run of the mill type of lcd screen. I can't remember who said it would be an unusual lcd screen....9to5mac maybe?
Anyways, can someone look into this? OLED perhaps?
Yes but if you're a developer that has iphone apps in the market you're constrained to the UI dimension of the iPhone. If Apple where to come out with a 10" product with iPhone UI the decision would be to either make developers change their UI to meet new dimensions or run the iPhone UI with the same dimensions which begs the question why ship a 10" at all?
This isn't the case at all many iPhone apps would work just fine on a larger screen.
However I can't see a tablet with this screen size being really successful in the market. It is to big for casual handheld use and to small for running Mac OS/X apps. The tablet I'm looking for from Apple would be smaller and run an iPhone OS derived operating system. The goals are two fold, portability and the ability to actually use the thing hand held.
The big fail in a ten inch device is that it won't be manageable as a handheld device. This is the whole point of tablets in my mind and is why iPhone and Touch get used as handhelds so often.
This device might have a saving grace in an OLED screen. This should dramatically increase the angle of view allowing for usage on a table top or other surface. The thing here is that an OLED screen doesn't imply expensive as they actually have the potential for being much cheaper to produce. OLED is an economical posibility if Apple invested in a full blown production line. Such a screen would make for far better delivery of E-Books and journals and news papers.
Even with OLEDs and other advances I still see this screen size as being a bit funky. Of course I've yet to see the value in netbooks and have the same problems with tablets in that size.
Dave
I've played with a few different-size netbooks, and 10" seems to me to be the ideal screen size. Anything smaller, and the keyboard and touchpad are too smooshed.
Of course, none of those netbooks had touchscreens, which suggest a tablet device.
Actually I'm pretty sure Asus has Eee convertible - that is, netbook with keyboard and touch screen that can rotate and face-up when closed... making that device both netbook and tablet. Don't know if it is already in sales, though - didn't bother to check. There is also a line of 12" HP notebooks with same feature... they are out of netbook domain, however, Apple's netbook might find them competition price wise...
I can think of thing or two Apple could do to make a difference. For example, they could implement some kind of iPod functionality software in ROM (BIOS), something that can be run even if system is not booted. My HP notebook can show emails that way - ROM based Outlook viewer that does not require Windows to run, so you can look for info in your emails without waiting OS to boot (I guess such feature is also easier on battery power as there are no zillion OS services and processes running in the background). Some interesting things could be done with announced Kindle eBook reader as well...
And of course, ultra-slim all-aluminium netbook could look absolutely great.
There are always way to innovate, perfect or at least differentiate product compared to others in the same segment; question here is, how much effort will Apple make (beside visual factor). Their latest desktop seem like half-hearted effort, but then again, they seem to be much more into notebooks anyway... so here's hope their netbook will really be something desirable and memorable...
Hey Ireland! Ready to tell all them beeotches "I told ya so!" for not believing??
Mactouch ftw suckassssssssssss!!!!111
Haha! Nah, not my style. I'll throw up that domain probably
Apple will at least have to answer this.
$299 or $399 "Always Innovating" touchscreen netbook.
Apple will at least have to answer this.
Not really. It's ARM and Linux.
This isn't the case at all many iPhone apps would work just fine on a larger screen.
However I can't see a tablet with this screen size being really successful in the market. It is to big for casual handheld use and to small for running Mac OS/X apps. The tablet I'm looking for from Apple would be smaller and run an iPhone OS derived operating system. The goals are two fold, portability and the ability to actually use the thing hand held.
The big fail in a ten inch device is that it won't be manageable as a handheld device. This is the whole point of tablets in my mind and is why iPhone and Touch get used as handhelds so often.
This device might have a saving grace in an OLED screen. This should dramatically increase the angle of view allowing for usage on a table top or other surface. The thing here is that an OLED screen doesn't imply expensive as they actually have the potential for being much cheaper to produce. OLED is an economical posibility if Apple invested in a full blown production line. Such a screen would make for far better delivery of E-Books and journals and news papers.
Even with OLEDs and other advances I still see this screen size as being a bit funky. Of course I've yet to see the value in netbooks and have the same problems with tablets in that size.
Dave
Apple has 2 Operating System platforms: iPhone/iPod Touch and OS X Desktop. There will be no need for a 3rd derivation.
Quick.........
someone please look into reports that the 10" screen won't be the usual run of the mill type of lcd screen. I can't remember who said it would be an unusual lcd screen....9to5mac maybe?
Anyways, can someone look into this? OLED perhaps?
I'm not kidding here! Please someone investigate....go go book a flight to Taiwan now right now!!
The big fail in a ten inch device is that it won't be manageable as a handheld device. This is the whole point of tablets in my mind.
Yeah, but this product, like I have been saying for a long time is sort of a new category. The terms couch computer, and table-tablet are still I find the best ways of describing the vision of this device, as I see it. And how it works is by incorporating an extremely well conceived and engineered stand into the hardware, that's capable of being popped in to the device so it's completely out of the way when you need it to be; like when you're sitting back on the couch.
The other factor is thickness and weight, it could be really thin and pretty light, we'll have to see how light it is when it materializes.
This device might have a saving grace in an OLED screen. This should dramatically increase the angle of view allowing for usage on a table top or other surface. The thing here is that an OLED screen doesn't imply expensive as they actually have the potential for being much cheaper to produce. OLED is an economical posibility if Apple invested in a full blown production line. Such a screen would make for far better delivery of E-Books and journals and news papers.
You have a few valid points there, and it would really be a dream display to have on this device. Heck, I've been screaming for it on the iPhone for a while now. It's one of the crucial upgrades I see the iPhone needing. But... don't hold your breath. Apple won't invest in a full production line for OLED displays, and they'll be trying to get away with this LED backlight malarkey (as seen in those awful MacBook displays) for as long as they can.
Of course I've yet to see the value in netbooks and have the same problems with tablets in that size.
You're not alone in that, Apple doesn't see the value in them. And I certainly don't, having to use one a while back was painful. The tablets you have used in that size before, won't be as thin, as light, or as strong as this one, and they certainly didn't run full Cocoa touch Snow Leopard. "touch the snow"
It would be more an iPod touch on steroids - more powerful OS (why not Snow Leopard or a more powerful version of the iPhone OS), more memory than iPod Classic, touch screen, wifi (of course), an answer to kindle, GPS, gaming device and everything else the iPod can do (music, movie, etc.), plus a possibility for telephony (via internet). In other words, a truly multipurpose and very powerful mobile computing device.
A 10-in diagonal screen could be 5.75"x8.5" -- the size of a decent-size (printed) book and larger than usual paperbacks. At this size, it would be Apple's answer to Kindle (and other related single purpose reading device. It cannot only be used as a book reader, it can read anything on the internet. And, if it is powerful enough, it can become a personal virtual library. Such a truly multipurpose and very powerful mobile computing device would become the Kindle killer.
Remember Apple announcing a separate "PRO Games section" -- apart from its standard games apps for the iPhone and iPod touch? The size of the screen plus a powerful OS could be ideal for more professional game apps.
If such a new device can also remotely project to a TV screen (remember Apple partnered with LG?), then the possibilities could be almost everything that one needs electronically for day-to-day multimedia needs.
I could think also of practical uses in industry, like for "delivery" services industries, especially if it has GPS capabilities. Or inventories, or show and tell with patients, or even any small group.
If such truly multipurpose and very powerful mobile computing device has backward compatibility to play all App Store applications, then it would have immediate loyal following from current iPhone and iPod touch owners.
And who said it has to have a built-in keyboard? Why not a "screen keyboard" and a plug-in keyboard for those who want it or may need it for more serious data entries? In the 1990's there were ergonomic keyboards that are in three separate pieces -- so that the design need not be limited to one large keyboard. A better alternative keyboard could fold like an oyster on its own for more compact storage.
Does a portable computing device have to be so limited in the age of cheap screens, RAM chips and disk storage devices?
Apple's answer should be NO.
And if they can come up with a multipurpose and very powerful mobile computing device with features and capabilities outlined below, Apple would not be criticized if it is priced at about $600-800. Those who want cheaper could stick either to the Mac mini or jump ship.
MacBook Mini
or
MacBook Touch
or
iTab
Possible Names For Product:
MacBook Mini
or
MacBook Touch
or
iTab
iBook (again)
Apple has 2 Operating System platforms: iPhone/iPod Touch and OS X Desktop. There will be no need for a 3rd derivation.
What's need go to do with it? It's not about need. All we need is food and water. It's about have the whole system optimized for the device. It will run OS X, Snow Leopard likely, but also likely a specialized version, especially built for this tablet, and future tablets from Apple. It will most likely run OS X with a custom created full cocoa touch UI, system wide.
What's need go to do with it? It's not about need. All we need is food and water. It's about have the whole system optimized for the device. It will run OS X, Snow Leopard likely, but also likely a specialized version, especially built for this tablet, and future tablets from Apple. It will run a OS X with a custom created cocoa touch UI.
Since it's reportedly coming calendar Q3-2009 and we know Snow Leopard betas have new MultiTouch frameworks I would wager that you are right and this would easily be Snow Leopard-based, which makes sense for a display of that size. This is actually looking to be coming true.
Guys, the name of this "tablet" will be Mac touch. Please, stop with the crumby names.
Again, another very sleek mockup, but I think the Mac Dock is a logistical issue for a touchscreen device.
Besides mistakenly opening an app/file by accident I think having all your Dock icons available like that isn't as beneficial as it is on a non-touchscreen. I think a scrolling bar or some other sort of rotation that allows you to flick to different apps would be more usable on a 10" touchscreen.
Plus, since widescreen is the norm for computer displays height of windows have been compromised (the 13.3" MB display height is shorter than the 12.1" PB display height). I think having the icons at the side (or even in a corner of the side) would make more sense.
Rough example that is surely to be chewed up and spit back out at me: The icons rotate in and out of view from the upper left corner. You can flick the virtual icon wheel lightly with your finger to see different icons that you set in your Dock Wheel, or you drag the Dock Wheel out to make it bigger, thereby seeing more icons in the wheel. Which you can touch to open making the wheel go back to it's default position in the upper right corner or flick to have it rotate if you still have more icons off screen.
Even with OLEDs and other advances I still see this screen size as being a bit funky. Of course I've yet to see the value in netbooks and have the same problems with tablets in that size.
Dave
I agree with you and I've been saying that I expected a 7" screen device.
I based that size on some assumptions about the width of the bezel around that screen and also on assumptions about the CPU/GPU power available, and thus resolution.
So I decided to grab a ruler and cut some paper to 10" diagonal size, with a 16:10 ratio.
It turns out that if the bezel is really thin, as in the iPhone, a 10" diagonal tablet can be hand held comfortably, assuming it's light and thin. It's just on the edge of the comfort zone for my hands (average sized for a male)
I still think a smaller device would be better because a 10.5" diagonal tablet does not fit in a coat pocket. It needs to be around 9" or less.
That this is a touch screen rules out the clamshell "mini Air" netbook some people want to see. However, us "maxi iPod Touch" partisans expecting a 7" device won't get our way either.
Whatever Apple is up to, assuming this information is true, will have some kind of twist. However, I do expect this thing to be very, perhaps shockingly thin.
Oh, and even if Jobs is out of the picture now, I'm sure he had led the development. Apple takes about two years, often longer, to develop products. They've probably had prototypes of this thing since the middle of last year or earlier.