it's really not that baffling. remember imac back in 1999. they didn't include a floppy disk drive on a consumer pc. that was baffling for some too but apple has a tendency to not only steer its users but also steer the entire market. copy/paste and mms are features you think you want because other smartphone makers have them but apple isn't interested in pleasing its customers as much as they're interested converting their thinking to something different. that's why there's no real twerty keypad. how come you don't complain about that?
i'll take a copy/paste too but i won't use it. if we go another 6-12 months without copy/paste, i guarantee you won't see the need for it either. remember, sometimes innovation is created by stripping away features and simplifying the experience. sorry if i sound pretentious but i'm channeling apple here...
Generally I would agree. I do understand why Apple makes these choices, and trust me, I'm a huge Apple fan. Apple has acted, many times over, as the innovator in the marketplace, and by raising the bar all consumers have benefitted. The iPhone is in fact a great example; just witness how other handset makers are scrambling to catch up.
I disagree with the concept that "you don't need cut and paste", however. There is a reason this feature is included even in Apple's own OS. At a basic level, it's a convenience for the end user; this is a usability issue. I find myself wanting it very frequently, and I imagine I am not alone. All the diatribes about the iphone not being a text editing device and blah blah aside, the idea that a user might want to select some text in one context and transplant it into another is just very basic. You don't need to be running two apps simultaneously to want to do it, nor do you need to be running mobile iWork to need it; I gave a few examples of where it comes in really handy. Someone else here attacked me earlier on this point. I've been called a whiner and plenty of other names, which I think is sad. I'm observing my own frustration with the lack of this feature. I come across this a lot, and I don't think I'm unique in that.
With MMS, again I agree that the way Apple is handling photo sharing is better. But it doesn't help me share pictures of my son with my friends or colleagues, none of whom have iPhones. Next tie you are in the AT&T store (or any cell phone store for that matter), see if you can find a camera phone that does not support MMS. I bet you will find it difficult to do. Providing an MMS gateway so that an iPhone owner can share with others / be shared with... is not about whether or not apple should or should not support of an aging technology so much as it is about whether or not Apple should support the consumer doing fun things with their product. That's my view, anyway.
I do understand where you are coming from, I just disagree that it's the right approach.
By the way, let me thank you for your well-reasoned response. It's a little amusing to me the rabid responses I've gotten here for something so innocuous as harboring an opinion about what the iPhone lacks; you would think that I've insulted Steve Jobs' mother to his face or something. Someone here actually suggested that Apple is keeping track of what people say here and in other forums (laughable, but lets go with it). So, by that understanding, I suppose I am off Steve's thanksgiving dinner invite list because I think iPhone needs copy / paste and MMS. What a travesty - I like Steve quite a lot.
The iPhone SDK wasn't ready six months earlier, it was ready until it was ready. Apple had to get the iPhone up and going before they could deal with the development kit.
You are right web apps did not take off the way the way native apps has. But in the first six months of the iPhone web based services reported that iPhone use on their sites skyrocketed in a short amount of time.
There are actually some interesting web apps on Apple's web app page that are not available on the App Store. Unfortunately Apple doesn't have web apps organized in a easy to navigate fashion. They should offer an app store for web apps the same as native apps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olternaut
But for at least six months in the beginning Apple tried their best to get the majority of the dev community to embrace things as they were and for the most part they didn't. Am I wrong?
Apple could of had an additional six month lead with their app store if they started with native apps in the first place.
In fact there is a big advantage in a developer making web apps. They only have to make one app and it works with any phone that can render full HTML, instead of having to develop and support multiple native apps on multiple mobile platforms
Totally agreed. And speaking from personal experience, it is very easy to take that web app and wrap it in a webView "shell" and there you go - you have a normal iPhone app. Apple made it really easy to do this, even going so far as to include ways for web content to interact with other iPhone applications and get / make use of core services. It really is lovely - I think it is very smart.
But for at least six months in the beginning Apple tried their best to get the majority of the dev community to embrace things as they were and for the most part they didn't. Am I wrong?
Apple could of had an additional six month lead with their app store if they started with native apps in the first place.
From various Apple sources including Steve Jobs statements, Apple just couldn't solve the security (i.e., sandboxing) problem and deliver the SDK at iPhone launch. Remember Leopard was delayed just to complete an iPhone OS version for the original iPhone. And aspects of Leopard were used in iPhone 2.0 and the SDK.
The whole web app direction was a backup plan, but Apple wasn't going to give any competitor a fuller view of what they were really doing with the SDK until they were ready to provide the SDK to developers. As a stockholder, I approve of such deception.
From various Apple sources including Steve Jobs statements, Apple just couldn't solve the security (i.e., sandboxing) problem and deliver the SDK at iPhone launch. Remember Leopard was delayed just to complete an iPhone OS version for the original iPhone. And aspects of Leopard were used in iPhone 2.0 and the SDK.
The whole web app direction was a backup plan, but Apple wasn't going to give any competitor a fuller view of what they were really doing with the SDK until they were ready to provide the SDK to developers. As a stockholder, I approve of such deception.
Fascinating. In that case I guess things have worked out. But that is history. The competition has caught up. And Mar 17th should reveal how far ahead Apple has put themselves again.......or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bloodymatzohball
All I know is they better include MMS. And maybe video recording.
And copy and paste. It should be amusing to watch the reactions is copy and paste is NOT in the new SDK.
I'll have my feet kicked back and munching on popcorn as I watch the rioting in the street on tv.
I guess they are still being made even now out of necessity. And the majority of the pre-existing one must have been thrown into the app store after its debut.
But really.....how many of the 25,000 or so of the applications in the store now are web apps?
I'd be willing to bet that more than half are web apps.
Copy and paste is the main thing missing. I don't often need to use it but if you've ever had to try and memorise two different full addresses and postcodes from an email message or web site so you could type them into Google maps to plot a route between them you'll see how pathetic the omission is. I managed to remember one, switched to Maps, typed it in, went back to mail to get the other one, went back... and of course the first one had been deleted. Tried again... back to email, memorise the first one. Get the second one, remember that too. Back to mail, typed them both in... got one of the postcodes wrong. Back to mail, try again. Took quite a few goes and nearly five minutes to do something which ought to be trivial. Utterly pathetic.
As for MMS. Well, I live in Europe, and my last two phones had it. I think I sent one once.
The iPhone has no document editing (other than short sticky notes) and no file system. You might argue that you'd *like* to have document editing or that you'd *like* to have copy and paste, but the absence of even a basic file system completely explains the absence of the copy and paste.
That little LED clock in your pen in 1982 is a "computer" but did it need copy and paste?
Your car has several computers in it, does it need copy and paste?
People need to get past the simplistic idea that all computers are just hardware that runs software, that any software they like should be load-able on any "computer" they see and that all "computers" are the same.
The very word "computer" hardly has any meaning anymore as it's become too generic. Saying every computer needs copy and paste is like saying every bread needs raisins. If I order a felafel and it has raisins in the wrap, I would not consider it a successful felafel.
Wow.
This is perhaps one of the stupidest, most logic-defying, and most assinine posts I've ever read. In how many ways did you have to twist your brain to come up with that logic, just to justify Apple's decisions?
You're comparing the usefulness of C&P on the iPhone to that of a a LED clock (from 1982, no less)?
Or to that of a car? Really? Funny, I've never had the urge to use C&P on my clocks. Nor in my car. Nor have, I surmise, anyone else on this planet, making your analogy completely and utterly inept. I won't humor you with the obvious and fundamental differences between an iPhone, a LEd clock, and a car (ZOMG, THEYRE ALL COMPUTERS11!!)
On the other hand, I've had literally hundreds of situation since I got my iPhone where C&P would have saved me grief, time, and inconvenience, or would have otherwise allowed me to accomplish a simple task on the phone that may have been near impossible without it. As is the case- I presume- with many, many others, which is why this is such a requested feature. Maybe you've never needed to transfer information between email/txt messages/google maps/notes/safari but millions of others have (crazy concept, eh?).
But hey, back to those LED clocks... I swear, some of you are unbelievable. I've been reading this site and browsing these boards for a long time, and as you can see from my post count, this drivel is what broke the camel's back and got me to register and respond. Unlike you, I'm sure others here and Apple realizes that people pay to use their products, and not the other way around.
As to my most wanted additions..the following list sums it up much better than I could:
Copy and paste is the main thing missing. I don't often need to use it but if you've ever had to try and memorise two different full addresses and postcodes from an email message or web site so you could type them into Google maps to plot a route between them you'll see how pathetic the omission is. I managed to remember one, switched to Maps, typed it in, went back to mail to get the other one, went back... and of course the first one had been deleted. Tried again... back to email, memorise the first one. Get the second one, remember that too. Back to mail, typed them both in... got one of the postcodes wrong. Back to mail, try again.
Same here. I think we've all tried to create workarounds for this omission.
Seriosuly, all i want is better sms texting features. I want copy and paste and the ability to forward a text msg (like a joke, or a party invitation).
Because integrated and tested software doesn't just magically appear out of thin air?
We're not asking for "integrated and tested software" since January or December, it's been years already.
Do you think the iPhone (3G) is perfect? Would it be a better product with all the things people are asking for or not? Maybe I should ask you what would you recommend to make it a better product? Just remember you can't say Flash, Copy & Paste (which I didn't), Bluetooth transfer, etc. Please, illuminate me.
Let's not be so close minded. It's sad how many people think just because they don't need <insert feature here> personally and because iPhone doesn't have <insert feature here>, no one else should have <insert feature here> either.
People use iPhone differently. If you have friends or family that sends MMS regularly, frequently finding yourself memorizing text from Mail, Safari, etc. only to enter it on some other app, or frequently talk to people while driving (and therefore would benefit from voice dial), then it's perfectly natural to be passionate about wanting such features. And let's face it. Just about every other phones (MMS, voice dial) and smartphones (copy and paste) on the planet have these features.
As for me, features like copy and paste, MMS, voice dial won't get much mileage either. I have my own wish list, such as better launcher, iChat (ideally integrated into Text), ability to remove (or at least hide) built-in apps (e.g., Calculator, Stocks, Weather), and Spotlight search.
It basically checks for the modification that the cracks use. If this modification has been used a developer can force the app to quit. Basically makes any cracked app useless.
Too many people think that copy and paste is a trivial matter. It may seem like a simple task when you look at a stylus based device. I'm sure cut and paste is high on Steve's list, but he wants to deliver a product that people can use without studying how to do it. Apple is all about user interface, they always have been. When they come out with cut and paste rest assured that it will be a wonderful implementation, not a slipshod attempt. I have yet to hear a good way to implement cut and paste on the iPhone. Sure it would be easy enough to add a cntrl key to the keyboard, Then you could use cntrl-x and cntrl-v. Or how about Alt-F4? I am anxiously awaiting the Apple implementation fo copy and paste.
On the Newton you held the stylus to the screen and it would make a noise indicating you were in cut and paste mode. Then you just highlighted the text with the stylus. The clipped text would then appear off to the side of the screen available to be pasted in any app that excepted text input. Why not just do the same thing on the iPhone? Seems dead simple to me. Tap and hold with your finger already brings up the magnifying editor on the iPhone so how about a double tap and hold to cut and paste? For the iPhone you could clean that up a bit by using a translucent icon to indicate clipped text which would appear off to the side of the screen or in the icon bar below. You could tap the clipped text icon which would bring up menu choices as to what to do with it. This isn't rocket science.
Comments
it's really not that baffling. remember imac back in 1999. they didn't include a floppy disk drive on a consumer pc. that was baffling for some too but apple has a tendency to not only steer its users but also steer the entire market. copy/paste and mms are features you think you want because other smartphone makers have them but apple isn't interested in pleasing its customers as much as they're interested converting their thinking to something different. that's why there's no real twerty keypad. how come you don't complain about that?
i'll take a copy/paste too but i won't use it. if we go another 6-12 months without copy/paste, i guarantee you won't see the need for it either. remember, sometimes innovation is created by stripping away features and simplifying the experience. sorry if i sound pretentious but i'm channeling apple here...
Generally I would agree. I do understand why Apple makes these choices, and trust me, I'm a huge Apple fan. Apple has acted, many times over, as the innovator in the marketplace, and by raising the bar all consumers have benefitted. The iPhone is in fact a great example; just witness how other handset makers are scrambling to catch up.
I disagree with the concept that "you don't need cut and paste", however. There is a reason this feature is included even in Apple's own OS. At a basic level, it's a convenience for the end user; this is a usability issue. I find myself wanting it very frequently, and I imagine I am not alone. All the diatribes about the iphone not being a text editing device and blah blah aside, the idea that a user might want to select some text in one context and transplant it into another is just very basic. You don't need to be running two apps simultaneously to want to do it, nor do you need to be running mobile iWork to need it; I gave a few examples of where it comes in really handy. Someone else here attacked me earlier on this point. I've been called a whiner and plenty of other names, which I think is sad. I'm observing my own frustration with the lack of this feature. I come across this a lot, and I don't think I'm unique in that.
With MMS, again I agree that the way Apple is handling photo sharing is better. But it doesn't help me share pictures of my son with my friends or colleagues, none of whom have iPhones. Next tie you are in the AT&T store (or any cell phone store for that matter), see if you can find a camera phone that does not support MMS. I bet you will find it difficult to do. Providing an MMS gateway so that an iPhone owner can share with others / be shared with... is not about whether or not apple should or should not support of an aging technology so much as it is about whether or not Apple should support the consumer doing fun things with their product. That's my view, anyway.
I do understand where you are coming from, I just disagree that it's the right approach.
By the way, let me thank you for your well-reasoned response. It's a little amusing to me the rabid responses I've gotten here for something so innocuous as harboring an opinion about what the iPhone lacks; you would think that I've insulted Steve Jobs' mother to his face or something. Someone here actually suggested that Apple is keeping track of what people say here and in other forums (laughable, but lets go with it). So, by that understanding, I suppose I am off Steve's thanksgiving dinner invite list because I think iPhone needs copy / paste and MMS. What a travesty - I like Steve quite a lot.
There isn't any clear evidence that MMS is significantly effecting iPhone sales. Or any clear evidence that any phone sells better because of MMS.
Maybe not, but if it had it iPhone would catupult even further out of everyone's reach.
Put out a Verizon CDMA MMS and then iPhone = world dominance.
But alas AT&T has the Apple by its seeds.
You are right web apps did not take off the way the way native apps has. But in the first six months of the iPhone web based services reported that iPhone use on their sites skyrocketed in a short amount of time.
There are actually some interesting web apps on Apple's web app page that are not available on the App Store. Unfortunately Apple doesn't have web apps organized in a easy to navigate fashion. They should offer an app store for web apps the same as native apps.
But for at least six months in the beginning Apple tried their best to get the majority of the dev community to embrace things as they were and for the most part they didn't. Am I wrong?
Apple could of had an additional six month lead with their app store if they started with native apps in the first place.
In fact there is a big advantage in a developer making web apps. They only have to make one app and it works with any phone that can render full HTML, instead of having to develop and support multiple native apps on multiple mobile platforms
Totally agreed. And speaking from personal experience, it is very easy to take that web app and wrap it in a webView "shell" and there you go - you have a normal iPhone app. Apple made it really easy to do this, even going so far as to include ways for web content to interact with other iPhone applications and get / make use of core services. It really is lovely - I think it is very smart.
But for at least six months in the beginning Apple tried their best to get the majority of the dev community to embrace things as they were and for the most part they didn't. Am I wrong?
Apple could of had an additional six month lead with their app store if they started with native apps in the first place.
From various Apple sources including Steve Jobs statements, Apple just couldn't solve the security (i.e., sandboxing) problem and deliver the SDK at iPhone launch. Remember Leopard was delayed just to complete an iPhone OS version for the original iPhone. And aspects of Leopard were used in iPhone 2.0 and the SDK.
The whole web app direction was a backup plan, but Apple wasn't going to give any competitor a fuller view of what they were really doing with the SDK until they were ready to provide the SDK to developers. As a stockholder, I approve of such deception.
From various Apple sources including Steve Jobs statements, Apple just couldn't solve the security (i.e., sandboxing) problem and deliver the SDK at iPhone launch. Remember Leopard was delayed just to complete an iPhone OS version for the original iPhone. And aspects of Leopard were used in iPhone 2.0 and the SDK.
The whole web app direction was a backup plan, but Apple wasn't going to give any competitor a fuller view of what they were really doing with the SDK until they were ready to provide the SDK to developers. As a stockholder, I approve of such deception.
Fascinating. In that case I guess things have worked out. But that is history. The competition has caught up. And Mar 17th should reveal how far ahead Apple has put themselves again.......or not.
All I know is they better include MMS. And maybe video recording.
And copy and paste.
I'll have my feet kicked back and munching on popcorn as I watch the rioting in the street on tv.
Please. Well, ok sure.
I guess they are still being made even now out of necessity. And the majority of the pre-existing one must have been thrown into the app store after its debut.
But really.....how many of the 25,000 or so of the applications in the store now are web apps?
I'd be willing to bet that more than half are web apps.
As for MMS. Well, I live in Europe, and my last two phones had it. I think I sent one once.
NSBundle *bundle = [NSBundle mainBundle];
NSDictionary *info = [bundle infoDictionary];
if ([info objectForKey: @"SignerIdentity";] != nil) // therefore a cracked IPA
{
/* do something */
}
How is it baffling?
The iPhone has no document editing (other than short sticky notes) and no file system. You might argue that you'd *like* to have document editing or that you'd *like* to have copy and paste, but the absence of even a basic file system completely explains the absence of the copy and paste.
That little LED clock in your pen in 1982 is a "computer" but did it need copy and paste?
Your car has several computers in it, does it need copy and paste?
People need to get past the simplistic idea that all computers are just hardware that runs software, that any software they like should be load-able on any "computer" they see and that all "computers" are the same.
The very word "computer" hardly has any meaning anymore as it's become too generic. Saying every computer needs copy and paste is like saying every bread needs raisins. If I order a felafel and it has raisins in the wrap, I would not consider it a successful felafel.
Wow.
This is perhaps one of the stupidest, most logic-defying, and most assinine posts I've ever read. In how many ways did you have to twist your brain to come up with that logic, just to justify Apple's decisions?
You're comparing the usefulness of C&P on the iPhone to that of a a LED clock (from 1982, no less)?
Or to that of a car? Really? Funny, I've never had the urge to use C&P on my clocks. Nor in my car. Nor have, I surmise, anyone else on this planet, making your analogy completely and utterly inept. I won't humor you with the obvious and fundamental differences between an iPhone, a LEd clock, and a car (ZOMG, THEYRE ALL COMPUTERS11!!)
On the other hand, I've had literally hundreds of situation since I got my iPhone where C&P would have saved me grief, time, and inconvenience, or would have otherwise allowed me to accomplish a simple task on the phone that may have been near impossible without it. As is the case- I presume- with many, many others, which is why this is such a requested feature. Maybe you've never needed to transfer information between email/txt messages/google maps/notes/safari but millions of others have (crazy concept, eh?).
But hey, back to those LED clocks... I swear, some of you are unbelievable. I've been reading this site and browsing these boards for a long time, and as you can see from my post count, this drivel is what broke the camel's back and got me to register and respond. Unlike you, I'm sure others here and Apple realizes that people pay to use their products, and not the other way around.
As to my most wanted additions..the following list sums it up much better than I could:
http://pleasefixtheiphone.com/
Copy and paste is the main thing missing. I don't often need to use it but if you've ever had to try and memorise two different full addresses and postcodes from an email message or web site so you could type them into Google maps to plot a route between them you'll see how pathetic the omission is. I managed to remember one, switched to Maps, typed it in, went back to mail to get the other one, went back... and of course the first one had been deleted. Tried again... back to email, memorise the first one. Get the second one, remember that too. Back to mail, typed them both in... got one of the postcodes wrong. Back to mail, try again.
Same here.
Me, I'd like to see this built right into an iPhone Xcode project so I don't have to add it in each app ...
NSBundle *bundle = [NSBundle mainBundle];
NSDictionary *info = [bundle infoDictionary];
if ([info objectForKey: @"SignerIdentity";] != nil) // therefore a cracked IPA
{
/* do something */
}
can you explain how that is effective.
Because integrated and tested software doesn't just magically appear out of thin air?
We're not asking for "integrated and tested software" since January or December, it's been years already.
Do you think the iPhone (3G) is perfect? Would it be a better product with all the things people are asking for or not? Maybe I should ask you what would you recommend to make it a better product? Just remember you can't say Flash, Copy & Paste (which I didn't), Bluetooth transfer, etc. Please, illuminate me.
People use iPhone differently. If you have friends or family that sends MMS regularly, frequently finding yourself memorizing text from Mail, Safari, etc. only to enter it on some other app, or frequently talk to people while driving (and therefore would benefit from voice dial), then it's perfectly natural to be passionate about wanting such features. And let's face it. Just about every other phones (MMS, voice dial) and smartphones (copy and paste) on the planet have these features.
As for me, features like copy and paste, MMS, voice dial won't get much mileage either. I have my own wish list, such as better launcher, iChat (ideally integrated into Text), ability to remove (or at least hide) built-in apps (e.g., Calculator, Stocks, Weather), and Spotlight search.
can you explain how that is effective.
It basically checks for the modification that the cracks use. If this modification has been used a developer can force the app to quit. Basically makes any cracked app useless.
Too many people think that copy and paste is a trivial matter. It may seem like a simple task when you look at a stylus based device. I'm sure cut and paste is high on Steve's list, but he wants to deliver a product that people can use without studying how to do it. Apple is all about user interface, they always have been. When they come out with cut and paste rest assured that it will be a wonderful implementation, not a slipshod attempt. I have yet to hear a good way to implement cut and paste on the iPhone. Sure it would be easy enough to add a cntrl key to the keyboard, Then you could use cntrl-x and cntrl-v. Or how about Alt-F4? I am anxiously awaiting the Apple implementation fo copy and paste.
On the Newton you held the stylus to the screen and it would make a noise indicating you were in cut and paste mode. Then you just highlighted the text with the stylus. The clipped text would then appear off to the side of the screen available to be pasted in any app that excepted text input. Why not just do the same thing on the iPhone? Seems dead simple to me. Tap and hold with your finger already brings up the magnifying editor on the iPhone so how about a double tap and hold to cut and paste? For the iPhone you could clean that up a bit by using a translucent icon to indicate clipped text which would appear off to the side of the screen or in the icon bar below. You could tap the clipped text icon which would bring up menu choices as to what to do with it. This isn't rocket science.
Did you guys really think Apple has been sitting back doing nothing all this time
Yes. Do you like Pina Colada?
Right on schedule: 2.0 was previewed March 6 last year.
Special Event on St. Patrick's Day ? Nobody at Murphy Mac will be sober enough to absorb the news until Friday.
Ha!...