Well I'll de darned. Now MH has joined Apple Insider. Everything has gone full circle.
I think FCP might be one app I hope doesn't get updated. It either needs to be ground up rewritten, or left basically alone, with of course minor updates. It works well now. But I hope they take their time and rebuild something spectacular in the future.
I'm working with a couple guys right now trying to do just that. We have FCP and Logic Studio each on their own Mac Pro. FCP is the master with a Blackmagic Decklink providing a Video Out coax sync into a MOTU Timepiece AV. The Timepiece then controls the transport of Logic. There's an M-Audio interface (don't recall the specific model) on the FCP Mac running Final Cut audio via an optical connection to an M-Audio Lightbridge. Still working out a few issues so it's not fully operational yet, but it should be good very soon.
Good to hear. I read from a producer talking up Adobe Dynamic Link and after reading a bit more about it I think Apple needs to go in this direction. In a nutshell all of Adobe's apps support a common graphics engine so you can roundtrip stuff really easy without re-rendering anything. I have a hard time thinking that Apple won't have something similar. It just makes too much sense. It's like Quicktime forming the center of the media infrastructure yet this type of linking is more encompassing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by - J B 7 2 -
Well I'll de darned. Now MH has joined Apple Insider. Everything has gone full circle.
I think FCP might be one app I hope doesn't get updated. It either needs to be ground up rewritten, or left basically alone, with of course minor updates. It works well now. But I hope they take their time and rebuild something spectacular in the future.
I had to check to see if I was still on AI when I saw MH's post lol. How'd he know? Ego surfing? Heheheh.
Hell I consider Final Cut Pro as most likely being a rewrite. Open format timeline and ProRes 422 support likely didn't take that much time. Apple probably realize that Final Cut Pro needed a massive overhaul and decided to toss some nuggets like Color in deal with the stuff that couldn't wait until now. The fact that they haven't touched the UI tells me that the next Final Cut version could be a significantly redone app from the core to the UI.
Which contains the improvements listed in this tech note .
So it's been almost a year since the last update and almost 20 months since Logic Studio was released. I think we could be in for a hefty update.
I'm not trying to come across as argumentative here, but that sounds like wishful thinking to me. I'm a Logic Pro user and I'd love to see an update, but I don't subscribe to the "update is overdue" school of prediction for Logic. If I did though, I'd bear in mind the fact that Logic 7 came out in autumn 2004. Logic 8 came out autumn 2007. I would say Logic 9 is overdue if it's not out by autumn 2010 :-)
I'm not trying to come across as argumentative here, but that sounds like wishful thinking to me. I'm a Logic Pro user and I'd love to see an update, but I don't subscribe to the "update is overdue" school of prediction for Logic. If I did though, I'd bear in mind the fact that Logic 7 came out in autumn 2004. Logic 8 came out autumn 2007. I would say Logic 9 is overdue if it's not out by autumn 2010 :-)
That's not argumentative at all. I don't think the delay between LP7 and LP8 was typical of the release cycle we can expect and here's why.
LP6 to LP7 was primarily adding Apple technologies like Apple Loops and creating a platform for Audio Units and of course tossing in a bunch of new plugs in Guitar Amp, Ultrabeat and Space Designer when they were sold separately before.
LP7-LP8 though was more significant than I think a lot of people realize. First they took the UI and made it a single window UI without getting rid of things like the environment. I've got to give Apple some credit here ...Logic's UI was a bit illogical in some ways. I also read that the sample accurate editing in the arrange window required an update to the core engine.
I'm guessing that the 8.02 update was done by a maintainence team who fixed the numerous bugs Logic brought across whilst the bulk of the German engineers are working on getting Logic to Cocoa since I'm betting it's moving to 64-bit this year.
It could be delayed until 2010 but I'm betting that is hasn't.
I'd be very interested to know about what Logic rumours there are, if any. The article did seem to suggest that an update was overdue which seems to me more like opinion than anything else.
The problem with Logic is that an update is ALWAYS overdue.
And even when an update is way overdue and people are estimating that there has to be one soon, it can still be months or years before that update finally comes.
They really need to get to work updating the app, version 8 was more cosmetic than anything else, and in that time Pro Tools has had multiple updates, the last one was huge. I honestly think the audio engine probably needs a total rewrite, it doesn't even chase automation properly. And it would be a perfect candidate for a 64 bit update, the ram limitations are a huge drawback, particularly when there were 64 bit audio apps on windows over a year ago.
I'm looking forward to a vastly redesigned Final Cut Pro with 64-bit support and improved Color integration.
Final Cut Studio/Logic Studio etc. Apple's best excuse for splurging for a Mac Pro.
You might get that 64-bit, but the way Apple has been releasing software I would think this is destined for 10.5.x and not 10.6 savvy, which might limit the pure 64-bit setup. I would think that a 10.6.8+ version would be out sometime in Late 2010, 2011... sucks
I'm looking forward to a vastly redesigned Final Cut Pro with 64-bit support and improved Color integration.
Final Cut Studio/Logic Studio etc. Apple's best excuse for splurging for a Mac Pro.
You might get that 64-bit, but the way Apple has been releasing software I would think this is destined for 10.5.x and not 10.6 savvy, which might limit the pure 64-bit setup. I would think that a 10.6.8+ version would be out sometime in Late 2010, 2011... sucks
You might get that 64-bit, but the way Apple has been releasing software I would think this is destined for 10.5.x and not 10.6 savvy, which might limit the pure 64-bit setup. I would think that a 10.6.8+ version would be out sometime in Late 2010, 2011... sucks
I just wonder about blu-ray authoring...
Laters...
Yes ..Apple tends to be conservative about supporting even their own features until they've had a few maintenance patches. I know they don't want the potential nightmare of trying to deliver a massive upgrade of both app and OS at the same time.
With that said though I could see FCS leveraging more of Leopards good features now that we have about %70 of OS X users on Leopard.
They need to deliver BD authoring. The consumer may not need Blu-ray support but for those delivering product to their clients they need Blu-ray delivery options.
Does anyone remember from the last major FCS release if there was a free "trade-up" window for people that bought the previous version within say 30 days of release of the new one? I've been putting off buying an FCS 2 upgrade, but would like to be able to get that in hand in case my iMac can't stand up to FCS 3.
Ugh. Really, why doesn't Apple dedicate some time to first fixing the bugs in both Logic and FCP, before adding a bunch of features. What good are features when the app is buggy? It seems like there's a bad trend at Apple of releasing beta-ware. I'm not holding my breath here, but a bug-fixing update would be nice.
Ugh. Really, why doesn't Apple dedicate some time to first fixing the bugs in both Logic and FCP, before adding a bunch of features. What good are features when the app is buggy? It seems like there's a bad trend at Apple of releasing beta-ware. I'm not holding my breath here, but a bug-fixing update would be nice.
Well it's like fixing a lot of things. Would you replace the little things that aren't show stoppers knowing that many are going to get get replaced anyways with the next major update?
If you're knocking the wall down in a few months there's no point in fixing the drywall.
Any of you guys using Logic mated to Final Cut Pro for production?
Over here on the new Pink Panther television show for Cartoon Network we are using a Final Cut Pro/Logic workflow. All of our editorial workstations are using FCP and Soundtrack for editing. The composer and sound mixers are using Logic. Which is pretty deal. It was tough getting MGM to agree to a non-Avid solution.
Over here on the new Pink Panther television show for Cartoon Network we are using a Final Cut Pro/Logic workflow. All of our editorial workstations are using FCP and Soundtrack for editing. The composer and sound mixers are using Logic. Which is pretty deal. It was tough getting MGM to agree to a non-Avid solution.
Not bad..good sales job. Could pay off handsomely if Apple produces a fantastic update. I know a lot of guys want the conform features of STP added to Logic Pro amongst other things.
You might get that 64-bit, but the way Apple has been releasing software I would think this is destined for 10.5.x and not 10.6 savvy, which might limit the pure 64-bit setup. I would think that a 10.6.8+ version would be out sometime in Late 2010, 2011... sucks
I just wonder about blu-ray authoring...
Laters...
Yeah the potential for a big hot 64bit mess looms large. They have to be careful about this. Snow Leopard should bring 64bit Quicktime, but how will that work with a non-64 Final Cut?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison
They need to deliver BD authoring. The consumer may not need Blu-ray support but for those delivering product to their clients they need Blu-ray delivery options.
Just today we turned away a request for a BluRay from one of our biggest clients. We are primarily Mac based with FCP and Avid and we have no decent professional tools for BluRay authoring. I have an old copy of Premiere that I can upgrade to CS4 for $300. Looks like I just might have to do that since Apple won't get a move on with BluRay. Sux.
They need to deliver BD authoring. The consumer may not need Blu-ray support but for those delivering product to their clients they need Blu-ray delivery options.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. While I think that BRDs for video playback most PCs is completely pointless at this time, I do think that Apple should be supporting it's professional app users with the HD optical format used by an increasing number of home entertainment centers.
I hope Apple does something about Aperture. It is by far the WORST PRODUCT APPLE HAS EVER DEVELOPED. I just wish they could combine iPhoto and Aperture. iPhoto has all these cool features and a sensible method of organizing your photos while Aperture has a lot of editing power. sigh
1st, it's nice to hear from fellow audio bid pros but I don't know why you say leave it to the non pros to test. I just left NBC and one floor, I serviced 6 workstations Xsan and avid storage. It takes no time at all to mirror a drive, load a new OS and install FCP 3 or what have you.
Gone are ttys days of worrying about beta testing. Most will throw it on a mirror image and give it a shot. None of us really live in a single workstation dependent enviorment anymore.
Peace
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex4d
That is what makes this interesting. There is no video trade show in June in London. In fact, as I live in London, Mr. Horton, LAFCPUG head honcho, asked if I knew any good venues where the meet could happen.
As he didn't mention a specific date, it might mean that Final Cut Studio 3 won't be announced at the event, it'll just be the first European showing of the product, but you never know.
I think The Brewery near the Barbican is a good venue...
Unlike some, I don't think Snow Leopard will be a requirement. I think it will unlock multicore and background processing and make other features run better. It makes sense then, for PR reasons to show at WWDC how it makes sense for developers to update their apps to take advantage of SL. That message might be confusing if FCS3 comes out before SL.
You can bet that pro users will wait for Final Cut 7.0.1 to upgrade, but stay with 10.5.X. They'll probably wait for 10.6.2 to upgrade to SL... Let the hobbyists test new versions of apps and OSes! They have less to lose.
Comments
I think FCP might be one app I hope doesn't get updated. It either needs to be ground up rewritten, or left basically alone, with of course minor updates. It works well now. But I hope they take their time and rebuild something spectacular in the future.
I'm working with a couple guys right now trying to do just that. We have FCP and Logic Studio each on their own Mac Pro. FCP is the master with a Blackmagic Decklink providing a Video Out coax sync into a MOTU Timepiece AV. The Timepiece then controls the transport of Logic. There's an M-Audio interface (don't recall the specific model) on the FCP Mac running Final Cut audio via an optical connection to an M-Audio Lightbridge. Still working out a few issues so it's not fully operational yet, but it should be good very soon.
Good to hear. I read from a producer talking up Adobe Dynamic Link and after reading a bit more about it I think Apple needs to go in this direction. In a nutshell all of Adobe's apps support a common graphics engine so you can roundtrip stuff really easy without re-rendering anything. I have a hard time thinking that Apple won't have something similar. It just makes too much sense. It's like Quicktime forming the center of the media infrastructure yet this type of linking is more encompassing.
Well I'll de darned. Now MH has joined Apple Insider. Everything has gone full circle.
I think FCP might be one app I hope doesn't get updated. It either needs to be ground up rewritten, or left basically alone, with of course minor updates. It works well now. But I hope they take their time and rebuild something spectacular in the future.
I had to check to see if I was still on AI when I saw MH's post lol. How'd he know? Ego surfing? Heheheh.
Hell I consider Final Cut Pro as most likely being a rewrite. Open format timeline and ProRes 422 support likely didn't take that much time. Apple probably realize that Final Cut Pro needed a massive overhaul and decided to toss some nuggets like Color in deal with the stuff that couldn't wait until now. The fact that they haven't touched the UI tells me that the next Final Cut version could be a significantly redone app from the core to the UI.
VERY cool to hear about the London planning and his take on FCS3 though.
SuperMeets are a blast and ARE all about the users and education and networking. I'll be at the NAB one. Hope to meet some of you there.
I think there's credence to the statement.
Apple announces Logic studio Sept 2007
On May 20th 2008 they announce the 8.02 update
Which contains the improvements listed in this tech note .
So it's been almost a year since the last update and almost 20 months since Logic Studio was released. I think we could be in for a hefty update.
I'm not trying to come across as argumentative here, but that sounds like wishful thinking to me. I'm a Logic Pro user and I'd love to see an update, but I don't subscribe to the "update is overdue" school of prediction for Logic. If I did though, I'd bear in mind the fact that Logic 7 came out in autumn 2004. Logic 8 came out autumn 2007. I would say Logic 9 is overdue if it's not out by autumn 2010 :-)
I'm not trying to come across as argumentative here, but that sounds like wishful thinking to me. I'm a Logic Pro user and I'd love to see an update, but I don't subscribe to the "update is overdue" school of prediction for Logic. If I did though, I'd bear in mind the fact that Logic 7 came out in autumn 2004. Logic 8 came out autumn 2007. I would say Logic 9 is overdue if it's not out by autumn 2010 :-)
That's not argumentative at all. I don't think the delay between LP7 and LP8 was typical of the release cycle we can expect and here's why.
LP6 to LP7 was primarily adding Apple technologies like Apple Loops and creating a platform for Audio Units and of course tossing in a bunch of new plugs in Guitar Amp, Ultrabeat and Space Designer when they were sold separately before.
LP7-LP8 though was more significant than I think a lot of people realize. First they took the UI and made it a single window UI without getting rid of things like the environment. I've got to give Apple some credit here ...Logic's UI was a bit illogical in some ways. I also read that the sample accurate editing in the arrange window required an update to the core engine.
I'm guessing that the 8.02 update was done by a maintainence team who fixed the numerous bugs Logic brought across whilst the bulk of the German engineers are working on getting Logic to Cocoa since I'm betting it's moving to 64-bit this year.
It could be delayed until 2010 but I'm betting that is hasn't.
I'd be very interested to know about what Logic rumours there are, if any. The article did seem to suggest that an update was overdue which seems to me more like opinion than anything else.
The problem with Logic is that an update is ALWAYS overdue.
And even when an update is way overdue and people are estimating that there has to be one soon, it can still be months or years before that update finally comes.
They really need to get to work updating the app, version 8 was more cosmetic than anything else, and in that time Pro Tools has had multiple updates, the last one was huge. I honestly think the audio engine probably needs a total rewrite, it doesn't even chase automation properly. And it would be a perfect candidate for a 64 bit update, the ram limitations are a huge drawback, particularly when there were 64 bit audio apps on windows over a year ago.
It's a no brainer with DVDSP although I fear Steve is reticent about integrating it in Apple's software.
Let's hope it's not a bag of hurt anymore as who knows when it will be released if it's not with FS3?...
Phenomenon has been a long time coming - I hope 'awesome' is the word.
I just hope Apple realizes pro compositors don't want a spiffy Motion. Once they understand this I think we'll be fine.
I'm looking forward to a vastly redesigned Final Cut Pro with 64-bit support and improved Color integration.
Final Cut Studio/Logic Studio etc. Apple's best excuse for splurging for a Mac Pro.
You might get that 64-bit, but the way Apple has been releasing software I would think this is destined for 10.5.x and not 10.6 savvy, which might limit the pure 64-bit setup. I would think that a 10.6.8+ version would be out sometime in Late 2010, 2011... sucks
I just wonder about blu-ray authoring...
Laters...
I'm looking forward to a vastly redesigned Final Cut Pro with 64-bit support and improved Color integration.
Final Cut Studio/Logic Studio etc. Apple's best excuse for splurging for a Mac Pro.
You might get that 64-bit, but the way Apple has been releasing software I would think this is destined for 10.5.x and not 10.6 savvy, which might limit the pure 64-bit setup. I would think that a 10.6.8+ version would be out sometime in Late 2010, 2011... sucks
I just wonder about blu-ray authoring...
Laters...
You might get that 64-bit, but the way Apple has been releasing software I would think this is destined for 10.5.x and not 10.6 savvy, which might limit the pure 64-bit setup. I would think that a 10.6.8+ version would be out sometime in Late 2010, 2011... sucks
I just wonder about blu-ray authoring...
Laters...
Yes ..Apple tends to be conservative about supporting even their own features until they've had a few maintenance patches. I know they don't want the potential nightmare of trying to deliver a massive upgrade of both app and OS at the same time.
With that said though I could see FCS leveraging more of Leopards good features now that we have about %70 of OS X users on Leopard.
They need to deliver BD authoring. The consumer may not need Blu-ray support but for those delivering product to their clients they need Blu-ray delivery options.
--JV
Ugh. Really, why doesn't Apple dedicate some time to first fixing the bugs in both Logic and FCP, before adding a bunch of features. What good are features when the app is buggy? It seems like there's a bad trend at Apple of releasing beta-ware. I'm not holding my breath here, but a bug-fixing update would be nice.
Well it's like fixing a lot of things. Would you replace the little things that aren't show stoppers knowing that many are going to get get replaced anyways with the next major update?
If you're knocking the wall down in a few months there's no point in fixing the drywall.
Any of you guys using Logic mated to Final Cut Pro for production?
Over here on the new Pink Panther television show for Cartoon Network we are using a Final Cut Pro/Logic workflow. All of our editorial workstations are using FCP and Soundtrack for editing. The composer and sound mixers are using Logic. Which is pretty deal. It was tough getting MGM to agree to a non-Avid solution.
Over here on the new Pink Panther television show for Cartoon Network we are using a Final Cut Pro/Logic workflow. All of our editorial workstations are using FCP and Soundtrack for editing. The composer and sound mixers are using Logic. Which is pretty deal. It was tough getting MGM to agree to a non-Avid solution.
Not bad..good sales job. Could pay off handsomely if Apple produces a fantastic update. I know a lot of guys want the conform features of STP added to Logic Pro amongst other things.
You might get that 64-bit, but the way Apple has been releasing software I would think this is destined for 10.5.x and not 10.6 savvy, which might limit the pure 64-bit setup. I would think that a 10.6.8+ version would be out sometime in Late 2010, 2011... sucks
I just wonder about blu-ray authoring...
Laters...
Yeah the potential for a big hot 64bit mess looms large. They have to be careful about this. Snow Leopard should bring 64bit Quicktime, but how will that work with a non-64 Final Cut?
They need to deliver BD authoring. The consumer may not need Blu-ray support but for those delivering product to their clients they need Blu-ray delivery options.
Just today we turned away a request for a BluRay from one of our biggest clients. We are primarily Mac based with FCP and Avid and we have no decent professional tools for BluRay authoring. I have an old copy of Premiere that I can upgrade to CS4 for $300. Looks like I just might have to do that since Apple won't get a move on with BluRay. Sux.
They need to deliver BD authoring. The consumer may not need Blu-ray support but for those delivering product to their clients they need Blu-ray delivery options.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. While I think that BRDs for video playback most PCs is completely pointless at this time, I do think that Apple should be supporting it's professional app users with the HD optical format used by an increasing number of home entertainment centers.
Gone are ttys days of worrying about beta testing. Most will throw it on a mirror image and give it a shot. None of us really live in a single workstation dependent enviorment anymore.
Peace
That is what makes this interesting. There is no video trade show in June in London. In fact, as I live in London, Mr. Horton, LAFCPUG head honcho, asked if I knew any good venues where the meet could happen.
As he didn't mention a specific date, it might mean that Final Cut Studio 3 won't be announced at the event, it'll just be the first European showing of the product, but you never know.
I think The Brewery near the Barbican is a good venue...
Unlike some, I don't think Snow Leopard will be a requirement. I think it will unlock multicore and background processing and make other features run better. It makes sense then, for PR reasons to show at WWDC how it makes sense for developers to update their apps to take advantage of SL. That message might be confusing if FCS3 comes out before SL.
You can bet that pro users will wait for Final Cut 7.0.1 to upgrade, but stay with 10.5.X. They'll probably wait for 10.6.2 to upgrade to SL... Let the hobbyists test new versions of apps and OSes! They have less to lose.