You can also overestimate the effect of a successful game franchise.
Who killed Sonic the Hedgehog?
A werehog...
...what were they thinking.
Although I think the original game would go quite well on the iPhone, they couldn't do any worse than some of the other efforts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by guinness
In terms of building an online store presence, perhaps, although Sony already has the Playstation Network.
But as far as the actual games, Zelda, Mario, Pokemon, some of Sony's original titles like GoW, GT, Wipeout, Rachet and Clank, etc, will out sell the derivate games and ripoffs current available in the app store.
Underestimating established game franchises just displays complete misunderstanding of the gaming market, but then again, Apple always has. I think that the Touch/iPhone could do well, but to say that Sony and of all companies, Nintendo has to compete, is laughable.
Nintendo knows gaming better than anyone, and I haven't owned a Nintendo since I was a kid, but they've been printing money with Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon.
Chockenberry mentioned they still didn't address the most important request developers have: demo apps. Apple said free apps remain free, but if they allowed developers that in-app commerce facility for within free apps that would solve the whole demo app situation. People would get the free version (demo) and be able to upgrade to the full version in app. Demoware!
Clearly though that would bring the numbers of apps being sold downwards as Apple could no longer call that two app downloads, when they user is not downloading another app, just improving it. It's all a bit fiddly.
I don't think it's a good idea. I was asked by a parent of a student in my daughter's HS about getting free apps, and then having to pay to get it working properly. She was concerned that her daughter would download all these free apps, but end up spending a lot of money on the unlocks.
I explained that a free app was a free app?always, and that if she wanted to upgrade it, she would have to go and then buy the paid one. She felt better about that.
The point here is that it's too easy to just click "buy" in an app if you're in the middle of a level. It takes extra effort to go and get the paid version, so you can think about it first.
With apps that you pay for in the beginning, you know you have more stuff that you could buy.
It's difficult to explain, but I think Apple properly feels that the free, but crippled, and you can buy concept, is too easy to abuse.
It's a phone! They have to make phones calls- don't they?
That's the whole point. You carry your phone with you almost all the time. You might decide to not bother with the DS or PSP, because they're something extra to carry, but not a phone.
That simply gives people more opportunity to play with it, read, or whatever.
Now I know you are way better than that. Did I state that is has surpassed the iPhone- NOoo.
I said it is surpassing as we speak. How can you deny that it is not growing at a faster rate than the iPhone now. Look at the numbers sold last year compared to this year. Now who is growing faster. Who would have predicted 13 million for the Touch?? Last year was nowhere near that amount.
Do you have the numbers? I'm curious about that. Apple doesn't break them out of the iPod category, I believe. We just heard about it at the end of the year.
In terms of building an online store presence, perhaps, although Sony already has the Playstation Network.
But as far as the actual games, Zelda, Mario, Pokemon, some of Sony's original titles like GoW, GT, Wipeout, Rachet and Clank, etc, will out sell the derivate games and ripoffs current available in the app store.
Underestimating established game franchises just displays complete misunderstanding of the gaming market, but then again, Apple always has. I think that the Touch/iPhone could do well, but to say that Sony and of all companies, Nintendo has to compete, is laughable.
Nintendo knows gaming better than anyone, and I haven't owned a Nintendo since I was a kid, but they've been printing money with Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon.
I remember a lot of companies over the decades who "knew" gaming. Most are out of business.
Just because Nintendo is on top now doesn't mean that it will remain there.
Sony was on top for years. Now they are number three.
And as far as the franchises go, big deal! They come and go as well.
What matters is mindshare. That changes. Momentum changes.
Old game franchises run out of steam. The third game in a series is rarely as good as the first or second, though sometimes it is.
There will be game franchises that start on the iPhone too.
And if many people buy games on the iPod/iTouch platform, then it's a successful gaming platform. Period!
Just because Nintendo is on top now doesn't mean that it will remain there.
Nintendo single-handedly resurrected the gaming industry in the 1980's, and is again THE force to be reckoned with nearly 30 years later.
Quote:
And as far as the franchises go, big deal! They come and go as well.
As another reader pointed out, franchises can and will stay around for a long while if you know what to do with them. Mario and Zelda have been around since the 80's and are still some of the highest rated and most profitable franchises in the world.
Quote:
Old game franchises run out of steam. The third game in a series is rarely as good as the first or second, though sometimes it is.
Again, Mario and Zelda are perfect examples to disprove your statement. Plus, nearly everyone who grew up with Nintendo would agree that Super Mario Bros. 3 is the best Mario game on the original Nintendo, and that Zelda on the Super NES is one of, if not the, best Zelda ever made, both number 3 in their respective franchises.
[QUOTE=hittrj01;1393163]Nintendo single-handedly resurrected the gaming industry in the 1980's, and is again THE force to be reckoned with nearly 30 years later./quote]
They didn't resurrect anything.
In fact, they were third for years, behind Sony, until Sony had problems with the PS3.
Quote:
As another reader pointed out, franchises can and will stay around for a long while if you know what to do with them. Mario and Zelda have been around since the 80's and are still some of the highest rated and most profitable franchises in the world.
Sure, but most have disappeared. The odds are poor.
Quote:
Again, Mario and Zelda are perfect examples to disprove your statement. Plus, nearly everyone who grew up with Nintendo would agree that Super Mario Bros. 3 is the best Mario game on the original Nintendo, and that Zelda on the Super NES is one of, if not the, best Zelda ever made, both number 3 in their respective franchises.
/end of rant, firmly cementing nerd status
They don't disprove anything. They are only two among dozens that have died.
In terms of marketing big games and setting them apart from the piles of cheaper, simpler titles, the panel discussed how Steam creates per-publisher stores to leverage brand loyalty and promote games to users. However, in addressing the rumors of a "premium app store," where big developers could charge more for their games without the distraction of smaller developer's offerings, Yardley said that iTunes' level playing field was a core strength.
Steam's model certainly isn't to the detriment of indie developers. A lot of the content on Steam is from smaller developers and it's a superb platform for them. I've personally bought several indie games from Steam and it's a great way to buy games from smaller developers.
Steam is a great example of online content delivery done correctly. They treat their customers with the respect and trust that they deserve. Right now, it's the number one reason to own a Windows PC. It's a shame that it's fallen to Valve, and not Microsoft, to provide the infrastructure to gamers.
I can see the likes of EA being very pleased with a new method to nickel and dime gamers via the iPhone's in-game payment system...
Why doe it always have to be referred to as "iPhone gaming"- AI? The iPod Touch is surpassing the iPhone day by day. As long the iPhone remains locked into AT&T, it stagnates.
We can always count on you to find some negative (usually dumb) about good Apple news.
The important thing to game devs is that there are 30M of the things. Not what the hell it's called.
As reference there are 46M PSPs and 100M DS and 48M Wiis.
In less than 2 years there almost equal to what Sony sold in five. Granted not everyone is playing games but as someone mentioned...the iPhone has gone Wii. It'll hit 100M rapidly.
I were Sega I'd look at re-entering the hardware biz with a gaming pad/battery pack (dpad, analog sticks and triggers) designed for the iPhone and iPod touch now that the SDK allows access to the connector and selling it with a Dreamcast Sonic game pack.
When the iPhone gets a rev and a faster CPU add the ports and long cables for connecting to a TV and bluetooth connectivity to other iPhone/Sega game pads as additional controllers.
They have the branding to make it work. They could also sell access to their game pad to other developers for like $0.10/game if they made it as functional (solid controls) and the total package as good looking as a PSP for say $50-$100.
Of course they have only one shot to get it right but if they managed they'd sell a good amount of their own dreamcast games and a reasonable amount of interest from IP holders to port old DC titles to the iPhone and new devs with game titles that want analog sticks and buttons to pay that 10 cent royalty. All without the major investment in building their own handheld OR console.
Nintendo, Sony and MS won't build such a pad and no one else has the same kind of console or handheld name recognition (faded as it may be) as Sega. Add in the Sonic franchise and you can see Sega making a "comeback" on top of Apple's platform. Sonic may not be Mario but it does have a following.
As reference there are 46M PSPs and 100M DS and 48M Wiis.
Is that it? Wow! I dont' play games much on my iPhone but I have bought plenty just because it was convenient and fairly low priced. I have owned every major GameBoy revision but usually only stick to the Zelda games for those systems. With the original GameBoy I had purchased the most with maybe 6 games total.
With the release of the App Store 9 months ago I have purchased 12 games (not including free ones). I probably have purchased about that many in total for my GameBoy handhelds combined.
I really hope Nintendo and Sony have something waiting in the wings or are working feverishly to produce something phenomenal. If not, I'm afraid that cellphone makers will be pushing them to the bottom of mobile gaming market.
Yeah it's really dumb when iPhone users keep losing connections due to AT&T.
If it's due to AT&T would this not be affecting other phones on AT&T's network? If so, why single out the iPhone? If not, then that would be an iPhone issue.
It sucks and I think Apple should do some more about gaming on the Mac.
What should Apple do: make games themselves or support better GPUs? I think the issue comes down to what is a worthwhile endeavor. Apple hasn't had to make the games for the iPhone OS and they haven't had to beef up the HW to support game play. It just fell into place as the most powerful and advanced handheld gaming platform (HW-wise).
Then there is an issue of where the money is at. I've read that PC gaming is on the decline in favour of consoles and handhelds. However, since knowing Obj-C works for both platforms I'm sure that there will be developers that get it with an IPhone OS game that expand to Mac OS because the cost is now lower than building just for the Mac.
Yeah it's really dumb when iPhone users keep losing connections due to AT&T.
Is that negative about Apple? -NO.
Is that dumb- NO.
Are you an arse?- YES
Yes, it's dumb.
1) It has nothing to do with gaming (you know, the topic of the article and the thread)
2) 17M sales says AT&T isn't holding Apple back that much to worry about "stagnation" of the platform (this is called "dumb assertion that flies in the face of actual data")
3) AT&T is sinking $11B into infrastructure buildout (this is called ignoring an improving situation because you wanna be Mr. AppleIsDoomed)
and finally
4) Quote from the article you link (named "3G Phones Exposing Networks? Last-Gen Technology" and not "iPhone suxxors"):
"And industry analysts say the problems at all carriers are becoming more glaring as the growing popularity of so-called smartphones puts pressure on their networks."
Which would also include Verizon. Yes, they do have the best buildout while AT&T is still stuck with some of the Cingular/AT&T/other patchwork with particularly bad coverage in NYC for some reason. In DC/Baltimore AT&T is pretty solid.
I've read that PC gaming is on the decline in favour of consoles and handhelds.
PC gaming waxes and wanes vs the consoles. On the other hand, PC games is relegated to the sad little single book case at Game Stop like Mac games used to be (now missing entirely).
A Mac gaming resurgence is not likely to happen IMHO. More likely is that we'll see iPhone titles appear on the aTV and the aTV transition to a ARM Cortex A9 based SoC capable of 1080p video playback (Ti demoed one at MWC).
That also makes the aTV somewhat resistant into turning into a lightweight mac as opposed to using Atom/Ion since it would likely run the iPhone OSX vs the mac OSX. Copying an intel mac kext to it won't do you much good.
I could be wrong and Apple might make the next gen aTV Atom based. It's not like it makes much difference to developer using XCode.
Nintendo single-handedly resurrected the gaming industry in the 1980's, and is again THE force to be reckoned with nearly 30 years later
They didn't resurrect anything.
Please, do some research into the gaming industry. Before the NES was released, people thought that the entire gaming industry was dead and buried.
The NES changed everything. It's only thanks to the NES that the industry was saved. Without it, gaming wouldn't be the biggest growth entertainment industry on the planet today.
Nintendo hasn't been out of the top three manufacturers in the past 25 years. That's an amazing achievement. I'm not a fan of the Wii but I respect Nintendo's contribution to the industry.
Apple does, but it's not correct in my view. Getting a new version of Tweetie isn't buying 2 apps, though Apple does misrepresent the numbers in this way.
I know you are not happy unless bitching about something but this is a bit beyond the pale to me.
As a "buyer" of many free and lite versions of iPhone apps that has no intention of ever paying for the full version, I disagree that me choosing to do so is me downloading the "same app."
If they counted upgrades (they don't AFAIK, and you don't seem to be suggesting so), you would have a point, but lite versions and "full" versions are indeed different applications and should be counted as such.
Comments
Who killed Sonic the Hedgehog?
A werehog...
...what were they thinking.
Although I think the original game would go quite well on the iPhone, they couldn't do any worse than some of the other efforts.
In terms of building an online store presence, perhaps, although Sony already has the Playstation Network.
But as far as the actual games, Zelda, Mario, Pokemon, some of Sony's original titles like GoW, GT, Wipeout, Rachet and Clank, etc, will out sell the derivate games and ripoffs current available in the app store.
Underestimating established game franchises just displays complete misunderstanding of the gaming market, but then again, Apple always has. I think that the Touch/iPhone could do well, but to say that Sony and of all companies, Nintendo has to compete, is laughable.
Nintendo knows gaming better than anyone, and I haven't owned a Nintendo since I was a kid, but they've been printing money with Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon.
Chockenberry mentioned they still didn't address the most important request developers have: demo apps. Apple said free apps remain free, but if they allowed developers that in-app commerce facility for within free apps that would solve the whole demo app situation. People would get the free version (demo) and be able to upgrade to the full version in app. Demoware!
Clearly though that would bring the numbers of apps being sold downwards as Apple could no longer call that two app downloads, when they user is not downloading another app, just improving it. It's all a bit fiddly.
I don't think it's a good idea. I was asked by a parent of a student in my daughter's HS about getting free apps, and then having to pay to get it working properly. She was concerned that her daughter would download all these free apps, but end up spending a lot of money on the unlocks.
I explained that a free app was a free app?always, and that if she wanted to upgrade it, she would have to go and then buy the paid one. She felt better about that.
The point here is that it's too easy to just click "buy" in an app if you're in the middle of a level. It takes extra effort to go and get the paid version, so you can think about it first.
With apps that you pay for in the beginning, you know you have more stuff that you could buy.
It's difficult to explain, but I think Apple properly feels that the free, but crippled, and you can buy concept, is too easy to abuse.
That's the whole point. You carry your phone with you almost all the time. You might decide to not bother with the DS or PSP, because they're something extra to carry, but not a phone.
That simply gives people more opportunity to play with it, read, or whatever.
That's why it's so devious.
Now I know you are way better than that. Did I state that is has surpassed the iPhone- NOoo.
I said it is surpassing as we speak. How can you deny that it is not growing at a faster rate than the iPhone now. Look at the numbers sold last year compared to this year. Now who is growing faster. Who would have predicted 13 million for the Touch?? Last year was nowhere near that amount.
Do you have the numbers? I'm curious about that. Apple doesn't break them out of the iPod category, I believe. We just heard about it at the end of the year.
In terms of building an online store presence, perhaps, although Sony already has the Playstation Network.
But as far as the actual games, Zelda, Mario, Pokemon, some of Sony's original titles like GoW, GT, Wipeout, Rachet and Clank, etc, will out sell the derivate games and ripoffs current available in the app store.
Underestimating established game franchises just displays complete misunderstanding of the gaming market, but then again, Apple always has. I think that the Touch/iPhone could do well, but to say that Sony and of all companies, Nintendo has to compete, is laughable.
Nintendo knows gaming better than anyone, and I haven't owned a Nintendo since I was a kid, but they've been printing money with Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon.
I remember a lot of companies over the decades who "knew" gaming. Most are out of business.
Just because Nintendo is on top now doesn't mean that it will remain there.
Sony was on top for years. Now they are number three.
And as far as the franchises go, big deal! They come and go as well.
What matters is mindshare. That changes. Momentum changes.
Old game franchises run out of steam. The third game in a series is rarely as good as the first or second, though sometimes it is.
There will be game franchises that start on the iPhone too.
And if many people buy games on the iPod/iTouch platform, then it's a successful gaming platform. Period!
Just because Nintendo is on top now doesn't mean that it will remain there.
Nintendo single-handedly resurrected the gaming industry in the 1980's, and is again THE force to be reckoned with nearly 30 years later.
And as far as the franchises go, big deal! They come and go as well.
As another reader pointed out, franchises can and will stay around for a long while if you know what to do with them. Mario and Zelda have been around since the 80's and are still some of the highest rated and most profitable franchises in the world.
Old game franchises run out of steam. The third game in a series is rarely as good as the first or second, though sometimes it is.
Again, Mario and Zelda are perfect examples to disprove your statement. Plus, nearly everyone who grew up with Nintendo would agree that Super Mario Bros. 3 is the best Mario game on the original Nintendo, and that Zelda on the Super NES is one of, if not the, best Zelda ever made, both number 3 in their respective franchises.
/end of rant, firmly cementing nerd status
They didn't resurrect anything.
In fact, they were third for years, behind Sony, until Sony had problems with the PS3.
As another reader pointed out, franchises can and will stay around for a long while if you know what to do with them. Mario and Zelda have been around since the 80's and are still some of the highest rated and most profitable franchises in the world.
Sure, but most have disappeared. The odds are poor.
Again, Mario and Zelda are perfect examples to disprove your statement. Plus, nearly everyone who grew up with Nintendo would agree that Super Mario Bros. 3 is the best Mario game on the original Nintendo, and that Zelda on the Super NES is one of, if not the, best Zelda ever made, both number 3 in their respective franchises.
/end of rant, firmly cementing nerd status
They don't disprove anything. They are only two among dozens that have died.
I had Mario on my Atari. It wasn't Nintendo.
In terms of marketing big games and setting them apart from the piles of cheaper, simpler titles, the panel discussed how Steam creates per-publisher stores to leverage brand loyalty and promote games to users. However, in addressing the rumors of a "premium app store," where big developers could charge more for their games without the distraction of smaller developer's offerings, Yardley said that iTunes' level playing field was a core strength.
Steam's model certainly isn't to the detriment of indie developers. A lot of the content on Steam is from smaller developers and it's a superb platform for them. I've personally bought several indie games from Steam and it's a great way to buy games from smaller developers.
Steam is a great example of online content delivery done correctly. They treat their customers with the respect and trust that they deserve. Right now, it's the number one reason to own a Windows PC. It's a shame that it's fallen to Valve, and not Microsoft, to provide the infrastructure to gamers.
I can see the likes of EA being very pleased with a new method to nickel and dime gamers via the iPhone's in-game payment system...
Why doe it always have to be referred to as "iPhone gaming"- AI? The iPod Touch is surpassing the iPhone day by day. As long the iPhone remains locked into AT&T, it stagnates.
The important thing to game devs is that there are 30M of the things. Not what the hell it's called.
As reference there are 46M PSPs and 100M DS and 48M Wiis.
In less than 2 years there almost equal to what Sony sold in five. Granted not everyone is playing games but as someone mentioned...the iPhone has gone Wii. It'll hit 100M rapidly.
I were Sega I'd look at re-entering the hardware biz with a gaming pad/battery pack (dpad, analog sticks and triggers) designed for the iPhone and iPod touch now that the SDK allows access to the connector and selling it with a Dreamcast Sonic game pack.
When the iPhone gets a rev and a faster CPU add the ports and long cables for connecting to a TV and bluetooth connectivity to other iPhone/Sega game pads as additional controllers.
They have the branding to make it work. They could also sell access to their game pad to other developers for like $0.10/game if they made it as functional (solid controls) and the total package as good looking as a PSP for say $50-$100.
Of course they have only one shot to get it right but if they managed they'd sell a good amount of their own dreamcast games and a reasonable amount of interest from IP holders to port old DC titles to the iPhone and new devs with game titles that want analog sticks and buttons to pay that 10 cent royalty. All without the major investment in building their own handheld OR console.
Nintendo, Sony and MS won't build such a pad and no one else has the same kind of console or handheld name recognition (faded as it may be) as Sega. Add in the Sonic franchise and you can see Sega making a "comeback" on top of Apple's platform. Sonic may not be Mario but it does have a following.
As reference there are 46M PSPs and 100M DS and 48M Wiis.
Is that it? Wow! I dont' play games much on my iPhone but I have bought plenty just because it was convenient and fairly low priced. I have owned every major GameBoy revision but usually only stick to the Zelda games for those systems. With the original GameBoy I had purchased the most with maybe 6 games total.
With the release of the App Store 9 months ago I have purchased 12 games (not including free ones). I probably have purchased about that many in total for my GameBoy handhelds combined.
I really hope Nintendo and Sony have something waiting in the wings or are working feverishly to produce something phenomenal. If not, I'm afraid that cellphone makers will be pushing them to the bottom of mobile gaming market.
.
Yeah it's really dumb when iPhone users keep losing connections due to AT&T.
Is that negative about Apple? -NO.
Is that dumb- NO.
Are you an arse?- YES
Yeah it's really dumb when iPhone users keep losing connections due to AT&T.
If it's due to AT&T would this not be affecting other phones on AT&T's network? If so, why single out the iPhone? If not, then that would be an iPhone issue.
What about Mac gaming?
Why won't I be able to play a game like this just because I don't run Windows? http://www.battlefield-heroes.com/
It sucks and I think Apple should do some more about gaming on the Mac.
It sucks and I think Apple should do some more about gaming on the Mac.
What should Apple do: make games themselves or support better GPUs? I think the issue comes down to what is a worthwhile endeavor. Apple hasn't had to make the games for the iPhone OS and they haven't had to beef up the HW to support game play. It just fell into place as the most powerful and advanced handheld gaming platform (HW-wise).
Then there is an issue of where the money is at. I've read that PC gaming is on the decline in favour of consoles and handhelds. However, since knowing Obj-C works for both platforms I'm sure that there will be developers that get it with an IPhone OS game that expand to Mac OS because the cost is now lower than building just for the Mac.
Yeah it's really dumb when iPhone users keep losing connections due to AT&T.
Is that negative about Apple? -NO.
Is that dumb- NO.
Are you an arse?- YES
Yes, it's dumb.
1) It has nothing to do with gaming (you know, the topic of the article and the thread)
2) 17M sales says AT&T isn't holding Apple back that much to worry about "stagnation" of the platform (this is called "dumb assertion that flies in the face of actual data")
3) AT&T is sinking $11B into infrastructure buildout (this is called ignoring an improving situation because you wanna be Mr. AppleIsDoomed)
and finally
4) Quote from the article you link (named "3G Phones Exposing Networks? Last-Gen Technology" and not "iPhone suxxors"):
"And industry analysts say the problems at all carriers are becoming more glaring as the growing popularity of so-called smartphones puts pressure on their networks."
Which would also include Verizon. Yes, they do have the best buildout while AT&T is still stuck with some of the Cingular/AT&T/other patchwork with particularly bad coverage in NYC for some reason. In DC/Baltimore AT&T is pretty solid.
I've read that PC gaming is on the decline in favour of consoles and handhelds.
PC gaming waxes and wanes vs the consoles. On the other hand, PC games is relegated to the sad little single book case at Game Stop like Mac games used to be (now missing entirely).
A Mac gaming resurgence is not likely to happen IMHO. More likely is that we'll see iPhone titles appear on the aTV and the aTV transition to a ARM Cortex A9 based SoC capable of 1080p video playback (Ti demoed one at MWC).
That also makes the aTV somewhat resistant into turning into a lightweight mac as opposed to using Atom/Ion since it would likely run the iPhone OSX vs the mac OSX. Copying an intel mac kext to it won't do you much good.
I could be wrong and Apple might make the next gen aTV Atom based. It's not like it makes much difference to developer using XCode.
Yeah it's really dumb when iPhone users keep losing connections due to AT&T.
Is that negative about Apple? -NO.
Is that dumb- NO.
Are you an arse?- YES
OK guys, that's enough.
Nintendo single-handedly resurrected the gaming industry in the 1980's, and is again THE force to be reckoned with nearly 30 years later
They didn't resurrect anything.
Please, do some research into the gaming industry. Before the NES was released, people thought that the entire gaming industry was dead and buried.
The NES changed everything. It's only thanks to the NES that the industry was saved. Without it, gaming wouldn't be the biggest growth entertainment industry on the planet today.
Nintendo hasn't been out of the top three manufacturers in the past 25 years. That's an amazing achievement. I'm not a fan of the Wii but I respect Nintendo's contribution to the industry.
Apple does, but it's not correct in my view. Getting a new version of Tweetie isn't buying 2 apps, though Apple does misrepresent the numbers in this way.
I know you are not happy unless bitching about something but this is a bit beyond the pale to me.
As a "buyer" of many free and lite versions of iPhone apps that has no intention of ever paying for the full version, I disagree that me choosing to do so is me downloading the "same app."
If they counted upgrades (they don't AFAIK, and you don't seem to be suggesting so), you would have a point, but lite versions and "full" versions are indeed different applications and should be counted as such.