And then their jaws quickly come back up again with a sigh of relief - once they realize those Apple devices are three times as expensive as their Kindle.
p.s.
I'd still get one.
I'm a sucker for OLEDs...
As others have stated in this thread the reasons why OLEDs are initially are expensive for the R&D part. But they quickly become cheap because manufacturing is a different story. So I don't think kindle users have reason to relax at the moment.
They should all be pretty dang nervous right about now. Oh for sure the Apple device is going to cost more.....but not that much more.
OLED screens don't have to be expensive. The reality is that they should be cheaper to manufacture than LCD screens. The R&D is expensive and a new production line costs money but it looks like Apple may have paid for this up front. To the best of my knowledge we have not seen many new monitors from Apple with OLED.
In any event OLED could be a huge advantage for a tablet as screen readability would be vastly improved.
It isn't so much cost as it is manufacturing capacity. Sure constrained capacity will raise prices but if you have your own line then the capacity is all yours.
There is so much potential to innovate in OLED space I'm not sure those patents mean much. In fact I could make an arguement that the American companies have really slipped up with respect to leading in technology development.
While it would be nice to see an Apple device based on a flexible OLED screen I'm not convinced the tech is ready. It would be more likely to see devices based on glass substrates as the sealing effect prevents oxidation of the organic compounds. A folding screen would be more doable on an iPhone where consummers have the expectations that the devices will be replaced often. I would jump at the chance to upgrade my iPhone to a device that opens up to a screen twice as wide as the current one but on a tablet I think I would prefer something that has the perception of being longer lasting. Either way OLEDs should lead to thinner lower power devices.
Dave
I'm not sure those patents mean much. Rethink that statement. Rethink it realllll hard.
I can just see all those new kindle users with their jaws wide open touching the floor when Steveo goes "boom" and intros a full color high resolution mobile device with oled technology.
To be fair both devices will serve different purposes. And the Kindle will have about 4x times the battery-life of this thing.
That's the point. Why 10" then? Why not 11" or 12" or 13"? You could go as large as a sheet of paper and stay as thin as a MBA without making a slate any more or less onerous to carry but much more useful than a 10" slate since you can show a full page at full size.
Why not 20", if you can make it as light and flexible as paper? Maybe because 10" was the sweet spot in the functionality/weight/ruggedness/battery life/power equation according to their research?
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea
If Motion Computing made their 12.1" slates thinner and lighter (and less expensive) than the MBA they would sell better.
Yeah, that's the rub isn't it? A 10" is lighter.
It's all about which compromises you're willing to make.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea
This is why that 10" size is "special". It's pretty much the smallest size you can expect to see a usable keyboard for a large number of folks. I'm going to guess 70-80% can use a 10" keyboard comfortably.
I'll take your word on that. And who knows, maybe Steve will debut the keyboard that they worked so hard on so that someone like me who never looks at the keyboard and never likes having to will find it less than absolutely maddening. Maybe, instead, it's two-thumbable enough to work as a handheld without being as awful or as space-inefficient as the Kindle's. I'm willing to allow for the possibility, I just don't see the need for the additional complexity and fiddly bits when a software keyboard of the same size would be more or less on par.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea
No, it's more about where the machines is positioned relative to the product lineup. The Atom (as I've stated repeatedly) allows you the entire Mac software library to be used.
If and only if performance, RAM, GPU and storage are up to snuff. That is, to borrow a word from the bad old days of Mac OS X, "snappy." No excuses, no apologies, no adaptation necessary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea
The ARM requires any app you want to be recompiled for the ARM OR a Rosetta like emulation layer (not useful for something as slow as an ARM in comparison to a Core 2 Duo).
Not if it's running iPhone OS. I'm assuming that Atom = Mac OS X and ARM = iPhone OS. The platform absolutely drives the underlying mechanicals and the size and the capabilities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea
You can zoom on a smaller device. In portrait mode my iPhone text for this forum (zoomed just to the posting area but showing the entire width of a normal post) is the same size as on my monitor at the normal viewing distance for both (a foot or two for the iPhone, 3 ft for the display).
But at the cost of the amount of information displayed, which is also a usability issue.
All I'm basically saying here is that this is nowhere near as easy to work out as some people seem to think it is. There are lots and lots of variables, and a 10" iPhone based tablet is no less reasonable than a run-of-the-mill netbook. The decision will, in the end, come down to software.
Yeah Hobit, we've picked up and linked to that a few times already.
Don't forget about the Sony rumor. Apple is supposedly striking a deal with them too. Kodak isn't the only company with OLED tech. A lot of companies all around the world do. But they are all sitting around staring at each other waiting to see who is going to be the first company to mass produce these into devices. And no, the new sony walkman with the oled screen doesn't count.
If and only if performance, RAM, GPU and storage are up to snuff. That is, to borrow a word from the bad old days of Mac OS X, "snappy." No excuses, no apologies, no adaptation necessary.
It works as well as a G4 powerbook today on 10" hackintosh netbooks.
Quote:
But at the cost of the amount of information displayed, which is also a usability issue.
Usability but not eyestrain. Even then, it works well enough for consuming. The iPhone falls down on producing.
Quote:
All I'm basically saying here is that this is nowhere near as easy to work out as some people seem to think it is. There are lots and lots of variables, and a 10" iPhone based tablet is no less reasonable than a run-of-the-mill netbook. The decision will, in the end, come down to software.
It's a lot less reasonable just like an AIO is less reasonable than a mini-tower.
Apple may do it anyway for product line reasons but it sure as heck is less useful than a 10" netbook as powerbook replacement some folks lust after. Comparatively even the MB is huge to a 10" netbook and much heavier. Even the MBA.
Why not 20", if you can make it as light and flexible as paper? Maybe because 10" was the sweet spot in the functionality/weight/ruggedness/battery life/power equation according to their research?
Yeah, that's the rub isn't it? A 10" is lighter.
It's all about which compromises you're willing to make.
I'll take your word on that. And who knows, maybe Steve will debut the keyboard that they worked so hard on so that someone like me who never looks at the keyboard and never likes having to will find it less than absolutely maddening. Maybe, instead, it's two-thumbable enough to work as a handheld without being as awful or as space-inefficient as the Kindle's. I'm willing to allow for the possibility, I just don't see the need for the additional complexity and fiddly bits when a software keyboard of the same size would be more or less on par.
If and only if performance, RAM, GPU and storage are up to snuff. That is, to borrow a word from the bad old days of Mac OS X, "snappy." No excuses, no apologies, no adaptation necessary.
Not if it's running iPhone OS. I'm assuming that Atom = Mac OS X and ARM = iPhone OS. The platform absolutely drives the underlying mechanicals and the size and the capabilities.
But at the cost of the amount of information displayed, which is also a usability issue.
All I'm basically saying here is that this is nowhere near as easy to work out as some people seem to think it is. There are lots and lots of variables, and a 10" iPhone based tablet is no less reasonable than a run-of-the-mill netbook. The decision will, in the end, come down to software.
This seems to go over everyone's head. OS X has been ported to ARM. Long ago. With that in mind, whatever Apple chooses for their CPU will work from Intel, AMD or ARM.
This seems to go over everyone's head. OS X has been ported to ARM. Long ago. With that in mind, whatever Apple chooses for their CPU will work from Intel, AMD or ARM.
But if it is ARM then you need to recompile all your apps for ARM. Like say...Office 2008.
has openoffice been developed on cocoa? or are you thinking about the NeXT tech?
I use NeoOffice, which is an off shoot of OpenOffice, myself. When talking about a ten inch screen though I have to laugh a bit as it would be a squeeze. In fact I see many Mac apps becoming usability nightmares on such devices and is one of the reasons I see an updated iPhone OS as being a better choice. Mainly because it forces a refactoring of an app. That is small devices demand a different human interface on small screens.
By the way I'm happy with NeoOffice on my MBP. I don't use it extensively but it does get done what I need done. It is just that it would appear that it would be very cramped on a ten inch screen.
The problem with the idea of a 10" tablet is that it's more related to a notebook than the iPhone/iPod touch platform.
I'm skeptical.
And why would that make you skeptical? That would be a reason to believe it. Going in to a store and seeing one of these, no matter the price, you'd walk out wanting and saving.
Comments
And then their jaws quickly come back up again with a sigh of relief - once they realize those Apple devices are three times as expensive as their Kindle.
p.s.
I'd still get one.
I'm a sucker for OLEDs...
As others have stated in this thread the reasons why OLEDs are initially are expensive for the R&D part. But they quickly become cheap because manufacturing is a different story. So I don't think kindle users have reason to relax at the moment.
They should all be pretty dang nervous right about now. Oh for sure the Apple device is going to cost more.....but not that much more.
OLED screens don't have to be expensive. The reality is that they should be cheaper to manufacture than LCD screens. The R&D is expensive and a new production line costs money but it looks like Apple may have paid for this up front. To the best of my knowledge we have not seen many new monitors from Apple with OLED.
In any event OLED could be a huge advantage for a tablet as screen readability would be vastly improved.
It isn't so much cost as it is manufacturing capacity. Sure constrained capacity will raise prices but if you have your own line then the capacity is all yours.
There is so much potential to innovate in OLED space I'm not sure those patents mean much. In fact I could make an arguement that the American companies have really slipped up with respect to leading in technology development.
While it would be nice to see an Apple device based on a flexible OLED screen I'm not convinced the tech is ready. It would be more likely to see devices based on glass substrates as the sealing effect prevents oxidation of the organic compounds. A folding screen would be more doable on an iPhone where consummers have the expectations that the devices will be replaced often. I would jump at the chance to upgrade my iPhone to a device that opens up to a screen twice as wide as the current one but on a tablet I think I would prefer something that has the perception of being longer lasting. Either way OLEDs should lead to thinner lower power devices.
Dave
I'm not sure those patents mean much. Rethink that statement. Rethink it realllll hard.
I can just see all those new kindle users with their jaws wide open touching the floor when Steveo goes "boom" and intros a full color high resolution mobile device with oled technology.
To be fair both devices will serve different purposes. And the Kindle will have about 4x times the battery-life of this thing.
"NEW Apple OLED Notebook & iPhone Confirmed By LG"
http://www.smarthouse.com.au/Home_Of...ustry/W5M8X6Q2
Do people realize that Kodak holds most of the core OLED patents in the US?
If Apple wants to seriously sell lots of OLED devices in the US, they need Kodak as part of this deal.
Now this piece of news comes in handy:
"LG teams with Kodak for future OLED devices"
http://www.engadget.com/2009/03/19/l...-oled-devices/
Connecting the dots, I'd say the plot thickens!
That's the point. Why 10" then? Why not 11" or 12" or 13"? You could go as large as a sheet of paper and stay as thin as a MBA without making a slate any more or less onerous to carry but much more useful than a 10" slate since you can show a full page at full size.
Why not 20", if you can make it as light and flexible as paper? Maybe because 10" was the sweet spot in the functionality/weight/ruggedness/battery life/power equation according to their research?
If Motion Computing made their 12.1" slates thinner and lighter (and less expensive) than the MBA they would sell better.
Yeah, that's the rub isn't it? A 10" is lighter.
It's all about which compromises you're willing to make.
This is why that 10" size is "special". It's pretty much the smallest size you can expect to see a usable keyboard for a large number of folks. I'm going to guess 70-80% can use a 10" keyboard comfortably.
I'll take your word on that. And who knows, maybe Steve will debut the keyboard that they worked so hard on so that someone like me who never looks at the keyboard and never likes having to will find it less than absolutely maddening. Maybe, instead, it's two-thumbable enough to work as a handheld without being as awful or as space-inefficient as the Kindle's. I'm willing to allow for the possibility, I just don't see the need for the additional complexity and fiddly bits when a software keyboard of the same size would be more or less on par.
No, it's more about where the machines is positioned relative to the product lineup. The Atom (as I've stated repeatedly) allows you the entire Mac software library to be used.
If and only if performance, RAM, GPU and storage are up to snuff. That is, to borrow a word from the bad old days of Mac OS X, "snappy." No excuses, no apologies, no adaptation necessary.
The ARM requires any app you want to be recompiled for the ARM OR a Rosetta like emulation layer (not useful for something as slow as an ARM in comparison to a Core 2 Duo).
Not if it's running iPhone OS. I'm assuming that Atom = Mac OS X and ARM = iPhone OS. The platform absolutely drives the underlying mechanicals and the size and the capabilities.
You can zoom on a smaller device. In portrait mode my iPhone text for this forum (zoomed just to the posting area but showing the entire width of a normal post) is the same size as on my monitor at the normal viewing distance for both (a foot or two for the iPhone, 3 ft for the display).
But at the cost of the amount of information displayed, which is also a usability issue.
All I'm basically saying here is that this is nowhere near as easy to work out as some people seem to think it is. There are lots and lots of variables, and a 10" iPhone based tablet is no less reasonable than a run-of-the-mill netbook. The decision will, in the end, come down to software.
Did someone mention that a source at LG supposedly confirmed that Apple is getting OLEDs from them?
"NEW Apple OLED Notebook & iPhone Confirmed By LG"
http://www.smarthouse.com.au/Home_Of...ustry/W5M8X6Q2
Do people realize that Kodak holds most of the core OLED patents in the US?
If Apple wants to seriously sell lots of OLED devices in the US, they need Kodak as part of this deal.
Now this piece of news comes in handy:
"LG teams with Kodak for future OLED devices"
http://www.engadget.com/2009/03/19/l...-oled-devices/
Connecting the dots, I'd say the plot thickens!
Yeah Hobit, we've picked up and linked to that a few times already.
Don't forget about the Sony rumor. Apple is supposedly striking a deal with them too. Kodak isn't the only company with OLED tech. A lot of companies all around the world do. But they are all sitting around staring at each other waiting to see who is going to be the first company to mass produce these into devices. And no, the new sony walkman with the oled screen doesn't count.
If and only if performance, RAM, GPU and storage are up to snuff. That is, to borrow a word from the bad old days of Mac OS X, "snappy." No excuses, no apologies, no adaptation necessary.
It works as well as a G4 powerbook today on 10" hackintosh netbooks.
But at the cost of the amount of information displayed, which is also a usability issue.
Usability but not eyestrain. Even then, it works well enough for consuming. The iPhone falls down on producing.
All I'm basically saying here is that this is nowhere near as easy to work out as some people seem to think it is. There are lots and lots of variables, and a 10" iPhone based tablet is no less reasonable than a run-of-the-mill netbook. The decision will, in the end, come down to software.
It's a lot less reasonable just like an AIO is less reasonable than a mini-tower.
Apple may do it anyway for product line reasons but it sure as heck is less useful than a 10" netbook as powerbook replacement some folks lust after. Comparatively even the MB is huge to a 10" netbook and much heavier. Even the MBA.
Why not 20", if you can make it as light and flexible as paper? Maybe because 10" was the sweet spot in the functionality/weight/ruggedness/battery life/power equation according to their research?
Yeah, that's the rub isn't it? A 10" is lighter.
It's all about which compromises you're willing to make.
I'll take your word on that. And who knows, maybe Steve will debut the keyboard that they worked so hard on so that someone like me who never looks at the keyboard and never likes having to will find it less than absolutely maddening. Maybe, instead, it's two-thumbable enough to work as a handheld without being as awful or as space-inefficient as the Kindle's. I'm willing to allow for the possibility, I just don't see the need for the additional complexity and fiddly bits when a software keyboard of the same size would be more or less on par.
If and only if performance, RAM, GPU and storage are up to snuff. That is, to borrow a word from the bad old days of Mac OS X, "snappy." No excuses, no apologies, no adaptation necessary.
Not if it's running iPhone OS. I'm assuming that Atom = Mac OS X and ARM = iPhone OS. The platform absolutely drives the underlying mechanicals and the size and the capabilities.
But at the cost of the amount of information displayed, which is also a usability issue.
All I'm basically saying here is that this is nowhere near as easy to work out as some people seem to think it is. There are lots and lots of variables, and a 10" iPhone based tablet is no less reasonable than a run-of-the-mill netbook. The decision will, in the end, come down to software.
This seems to go over everyone's head. OS X has been ported to ARM. Long ago. With that in mind, whatever Apple chooses for their CPU will work from Intel, AMD or ARM.
This seems to go over everyone's head. OS X has been ported to ARM. Long ago. With that in mind, whatever Apple chooses for their CPU will work from Intel, AMD or ARM.
But if it is ARM then you need to recompile all your apps for ARM. Like say...Office 2008.
Good luck with that.
But if it is ARM then you need to recompile all your apps for ARM. Like say...Office 2008.
Good luck with that.
Office better move to Cocoa or it's soon the End of Life for that platform on OS X.
Office better move to Cocoa or it's soon the End of Life for that platform on OS X.
has openoffice been developed on cocoa? or are you thinking about the NeXT tech?
has openoffice been developed on cocoa? or are you thinking about the NeXT tech?
They are(were?) working on it.
has openoffice been developed on cocoa? or are you thinking about the NeXT tech?
I use NeoOffice, which is an off shoot of OpenOffice, myself. When talking about a ten inch screen though I have to laugh a bit as it would be a squeeze. In fact I see many Mac apps becoming usability nightmares on such devices and is one of the reasons I see an updated iPhone OS as being a better choice. Mainly because it forces a refactoring of an app. That is small devices demand a different human interface on small screens.
By the way I'm happy with NeoOffice on my MBP. I don't use it extensively but it does get done what I need done. It is just that it would appear that it would be very cramped on a ten inch screen.
Dave
has openoffice been developed on cocoa? or are you thinking about the NeXT tech?
OpenOffice 3.1.x Dev for Cocoa is out:
http://download.openoffice.org/next/other.html#dev1
OpenOffice 3.1.x Dev for Cocoa is out:
http://download.openoffice.org/next/other.html#dev1
with all these office suites is ms really that necessary ? can someone explain why we still use software that is not optimize for OS X ?
For my computing needs i am ditching big developers that are not doing this..
with all these office suites is ms really that necessary ? can someone explain why we still use software that is not optimize for OS X ?
For my computing needs i am ditching big developers that are not doing this..
Other than Entourage MS Office is nice and about as optimized for OS X as say CS.
I can't recall which Apple apps are still carbon. Go ahead and boycott Apple if you like.
Other than Entourage MS Office is nice and about as optimized for OS X as say CS.
I can't recall which Apple apps are still carbon. Go ahead and boycott Apple if you like.
like i said " for my computing needs"
FCS nope
Logic nope
Aperture nope
ilife and iWork yes
and whatever is not yet optimized, maybe you are referring to cocoa apps, Apple will have most of them by SL. Do you think so?
I'm skeptical.
The problem with the idea of a 10" tablet is that it's more related to a notebook than the iPhone/iPod touch platform.
I'm skeptical.
And why would that make you skeptical? That would be a reason to believe it. Going in to a store and seeing one of these, no matter the price, you'd walk out wanting and saving.