What are you talking about? You act as if if the firewall in Windows goes down then your entire system is going to get taken down. That is completely and utterly untrue. With a modern Windows system, XP3 and Vista SP1, the only way a system can become compromised is if the USER downloads, installs, and runs malicious software despite multiple warnings from the browser, security software, built-in security software, and Windows itself.
I've been using Windows for the better portion of the last two decades and I have never had happen what you described. I have never seen it happen to any one either.
It's pure FUD on Apple's part.
Oh and HP Photosmart Essentials (my bad on the name) looks exactly like iPhoto as far as UI and the way it works So don't try to tell me its hard to use.
every average windows users ie toolbars are about 5 toolbars high. They just install everything just as long as it's free (and easy)... maybe that's who the advert is marketed to.
I'll say that Windows had created a huge third party market for companies to require massive add-on device drivers so you can "take advantage of the device full feature set" [printers, scanners, all-in-one products with fax] while these same devices work in Linux and OS X with no added binary additions. They don't get to take advantage of the HP integrated graphics tools and whatnot, but no one buys these peripherals for such addons. People don't buy an HP Inkjet/Photoprinter because they want to use Photoshop Elements. Hell, they just want to print pictures.
Haven't you heard of HPLIP? that's a tool created by HP. Or were you meaning the shovelware that comes with the printer?
What I said in my original post still stands. The TCO (total cost of ownership) of a Mac is *lower* than a PC. It always has been and always will be. They last longer, they need less repairs, the majority of the repairs are covered by warranty, and they need no antivirus or maintenance products. They are made of higher quality parts, not the same parts as the average PC and are designed better than the average PC as well.
Those are the facts and nothing you can say will change them.
Instead of telling us these re the facts can you please show us the research you have done?
In my own experience and the experiences of those people I know it seems that there is no difference in the amount of issues that Mac's have compared to PC's. I have already stated my own experience over the last 2 years where my MBP has certainly been much worse than my cheaper Dell and has been back to Apple twice already. Both times were said to be issues with overheating. That is what you get with Macs, overheating! Because they make everything so bloody small with no room for airflow. You should here my MBP when I am doing something as simple as unzipping a large file, it sounds like a 747 taking off.
Mac's are not made from higher quality parts, they are the same inside as any decently specced PC but just more expensive. Sure on the outside they look different but crack them open and they are all the same.
OSX is king, this is why a Mac is still such a great experience. You can come on here and say all you want that OSX kicks Windows Butt in the OS stakes and I will agree with everything you say. But by keeping on repeating that Macs are better quality than PC's on the hardware side you are just confirming to me that you are stuck in the 1990's. It used to be that way but trust me it is no longer. I am not the only one saying this, I know loads of people who say exactly the same. Just look at the Apple support forums and read some posts and you will see how many issues that Mac users are getting now - It just doesn't work anymore and therefore it is getting impossible to justify the extra cost.
I honestly would not recommend anyone I know spend the extra money on a Mac at the moment. I really wouldn't. They are much better off buying a Dell with 3 years warranty and using the change for something else.
Apple had their big chance 2 years ago and dropped the ball, they have neglected the computer business while they were too busy concentrating on their toys and this is the year they will pay for that mistake. Maybe it can be turned around, but they need to do something about their hardware and their costs.
People keep talking about high end, quality products? Where is the Blu-Ray? Where is the extra long battery life ultra-portable or netbook? (note not cheap low end netbooks, there is a growing market for $699 10" power netbooks) These are the directions the market is going in and yet Apple are still talking about phones.
Instead of telling us these re the facts can you please show us the research you have done?
In my own experience and the experiences of those people I know it seems that there is no difference in the amount of issues that Mac's have compared to PC's. I have already stated my own experience over the last 2 years where my MBP has certainly been much worse than my cheaper Dell and has been back to Apple twice already. Both times were said to be issues with overheating. That is what you get with Macs, overheating! Because they make everything so bloody small with no room for airflow. You should here my MBP when I am doing something as simple as unzipping a large file, it sounds like a 747 taking off.
Mac's are not made from higher quality parts, they are the same inside as any decently specced PC but just more expensive. Sure on the outside they look different but crack them open and they are all the same.
OSX is king, this is why a Mac is still such a great experience. You can come on here and say all you want that OSX kicks Windows Butt in the OS stakes and I will agree with everything you say. But by keeping on repeating that Macs are better quality than PC's on the hardware side you are just confirming to me that you are stuck in the 1990's. It used to be that way but trust me it is no longer. I am not the only one saying this, I know loads of people who say exactly the same. Just look at the Apple support forums and read some posts and you will see how many issues that Mac users are getting now - It just doesn't work anymore and therefore it is getting impossible to justify the extra cost.
I honestly would not recommend anyone I know spend the extra money on a Mac at the moment. I really wouldn't. They are much better off buying a Dell with 3 years warranty and using the change for something else.
Apple had their big chance 2 years ago and dropped the ball, they have neglected the computer business while they were too busy concentrating on their toys and this is the year they will pay for that mistake. Maybe it can be turned around, but they need to do something about their hardware and their costs.
People keep talking about high end, quality products? Where is the Blu-Ray? Where is the extra long battery life ultra-portable or netbook? (note not cheap low end netbooks, there is a growing market for $699 10" power netbooks) These are the directions the market is going in and yet Apple are still talking about phones.
Do yourself a favor and actually look at the motherboards, chipsets, capacitors and more from the MacPro power supply, drive slots and more. Seriously, check under the hood, compare the actual PCI/PCI Express slots, the material choices and more.
Then compare that to an off-the-shelf motherboard that matches the guts of the Mac Pro, right down to the fasteners.
Apple had their big chance 2 years ago and dropped the ball, they have neglected the computer business while they were too busy concentrating on their toys and this is the year they will pay for that mistake. Maybe it can be turned around, but they need to do something about their hardware and their costs.
People keep talking about high end, quality products? Where is the Blu-Ray? Where is the extra long battery life ultra-portable or netbook? (note not cheap low end netbooks, there is a growing market for $699 10" power netbooks) These are the directions the market is going in and yet Apple are still talking about phones.
I could not agree more. There is absolutely no reason why Apple does not have a 7-11" netbook/tablet out right now. Netbooks could not be more popular as this article says. Their sales are skyrocketing. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/26/te...h/26pogue.html
The iMac has not been keeping up- No Blu-ray, No LED, stale design, etc, etc.
Even this site seems to have morphed into the iPhone Insider.
Mac is really expensive, Mac community should admit that!
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
In a new series of web ads, Microsoft portrays two slot machines, one ringing up a Mac with bits of garbage, and the other presenting a cheaper generic PC along with the Zune, Xbox 360, and other things buyers could get with the money they'd save with the PC.
The banner ads are part of Microsoft's new ad campaign promoting cheap hardware, which includes new TV spots contrasting Macs with generic PCs entirely on price. There's not much mention of why the generic PCs are so much cheaper than the Macs they are contrasted with, nor any mention of software expenses.
Microsoft hardware?
Microsoft's new focus on cheap hardware prices is particularly interesting given the fact that the company has been unable to profitably market its own hardware devices outside of its Microsoft-branded keyboards and mice that it bundles with many new PCs as part of its Windows software licensing.
The company has spent billions on the Xbox 360, which is even now only barely clearing a hardware profit before considering the hardware repairs that have plagued the game console. With the Zune, Microsoft has been completely unable to create any impact within the market for MP3 players dominated by Apple's iPod.
Selling software with hardware, and vice versa
Microsoft is a software-centric company. It has long sold its software using cheap hardware. However, Microsoft's software isn't cheap. Retail upgrades for Windows are nearly twice as expensive as Mac OS X, and infinitely more expensive than Linux, which can be obtained for free.
While the need for software compatibility with Windows has long rendered Microsoft's operating system monopoly untouchable, the emergence of new computers that rely more on the web and email have broken that hold. Ubuntu markets a low cost distribution of Linux to PC makers exploiting that new market.
Apple has added sophisticated music, photo, and movie editing software to its web and email offerings, positioning the company's Macs as not just a suitable alternative to Windows PCs, but also more useful and valuable option right out of the box. That pits Apple's business model of selling hardware with cheap software directly opposite to Microsoft's business of selling its software on cheap hardware.
What happened to "Total Cost of Ownership"?
Macs not only bundle in free software missing on the PC side, but also offer personalized support in Apple's retail stores, which is free to those who don't mind standing around waiting for an available genius, and very cheap to users who want a regular One-on-One membership that allows them to visit the stores for virtually unlimited advice and training sessions.
If Microsoft portrayed the software and support expenses of generic Windows PCs into its slot machine graphics, the results would be less flattering.
Mac is really expensive, Mac community should admit that!
I bought my wife a new MacBook for Christmas. I sold her old one (4 years old) for exactly half what the new one cost. This made the new one less than any Dell, Acer or Sony.
Last year I sold my dual G5 for half what my new MacPro cost.
I have been doing this for nearly 25 years with Macs. So, like any quality product they hold their value really well.
So I ask you, what is a four year old PC worth?
BTW: I get calls from the people who buy these old Macs from me regularly asking when I am upgrading again as they want to pass theirs on to kids and family.
There is absolutely no reason why Apple does not have a 7-11" netbook/tablet out right now. Netbooks could not be more popular as this article says. Their sales are skyrocketing. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/26/te...h/26pogue.html
There is at the very least one very good reason why Apple has not got a netbook out right now. That reason is there is almost no profit to be made from that market.
Apple can make more profit selling a single MacBook than they'll make selling around 20 netbooks (and that's being generous and assuming they make the netbooks as ugly as the current netbook offerings).
Yes it has. Remember that in the first few years of Job's return, Mac sales were in the doldrums. It's quite likely that the amount of active Mac users didn't really change that much... while the amount of PC users took off. It's only in the last four years that the Mac has started to reclaim some of it's lost market share."
Whatever the last 4 years is called, it wasn't real growth, at best just catching up to losses to hold the 25m number consistent over the long term.
Quote:
Either Apple has some new cutomers or the "existing base" appear to be buying three times as many Macs as before."
As long as the 25 million number is holding, increased Mac sales can only mean new customers are replacing defections and existing users and buying more frequently.
Whatever the last 4 years is called, it wasn't real growth, at best just catching up to losses to hold the 25m number consistent over the long term.
Don't get too hung up on the 25m number. These numbers (even whan announced by Apple) are a little vague. For example... how long have we been hearing that there are a billion PCs out there. Does that figure ever change?
Yes the last 4 years was REAL growth. Growth in sales which (however way you calculate it) must equate to a change in the user base.
Don't get too hung up on the 25m number. These numbers (even whan announced by Apple) are a little vague. For example... how long have we been hearing that there are a billion PCs out there. Does that figure ever change?
Yes the last 4 years was REAL growth. Growth in sales which (however way you calculate it) must equate to a change in the user base.
Last 4 years of Mac sales = 28.1 million
Prior 4 years of Mac sales = 12.9 million
Have you noticed all these nice polite new members who are continuously hammering the M$ spin over and over. Normal trolls get nasty, these polite guys are in suits in Redmond lol. My bet is many of them after a few weeks of this will be dying to try a Mac to see why we love them so much lol
Don't get too hung up on the 25m number. These numbers (even whan announced by Apple) are a little vague. For example... how long have we been hearing that there are a billion PCs out there. Does that figure ever change?
Yes the last 4 years was REAL growth. Growth in sales which (however way you calculate it) must equate to a change in the user base.
Don't get too hung up on the 25m number. These numbers (even whan announced by Apple) are a little vague. For example... how long have we been hearing that there are a billion PCs out there. Does that figure ever change?
Yes the last 4 years was REAL growth. Growth in sales which (however way you calculate it) must equate to a change in the user base.
Last 4 years of Mac sales = 28.1 million
Prior 4 years of Mac sales = 12.9 million
There's no credible way to count all the PCs in the world. 25 million is a lot more specific and manageable than a worldwide guesstimate. Unless Apple has something more recent and accurate, that remains the best estimate anybody, including Apple, has.
Server is behaving badly so I hope my post goes through without duplication.
Some personal but relevant data:
Wife and I have a two person, at home, graphic arts business. Mac users since 1988. Keep every mac AT LEAST 4 years. NEVER, EVER had one die. Replaced HDs, RAM, fans, etc, but each computer has been sold or given away after it's served its time.
Ever since ebay, I get used mac desktop towers and Apple Cinema displays. I can't believe how often people upgrade and get rid of perfectly good computers! Great stuff and not too expensive. I still get over 4 years out of each computer and the macs make us money in our business and we never have to call the geeks to fix them. That's real world stuff, not theory.
The average computer user is MUCH better served by a Mac than a windows computer. Every family member or friend I have ever converted has thanked me over and over. Against my advice, one friend converted from mac to windows and the tears continue. Now I have my 17-year old nephew on a mac and he is converting his dad as well. Funny...his dad used to think that macs were all hype but now he sees the light. MS should be worried about their long-term prospects.
The average user CANNOT keep windows computer running trouble-free. EVERYTHING gets messed up due to spyware and malevolent parasites and there is no way to keep them out without dedicating lots of time to the problem. By comparison, I run our macs trouble-free with no virus protection whatsoever--just basic DOs and DONT's regarding security and passwords.
If you are techie and you want this or that, fine. Run what you like but save your non-techie friends from the horror that is windows. The windows experience is dehumanizing for the average computer user.
There is at the very least one very good reason why Apple has not got a netbook out right now. That reason is there is almost no profit to be made from that market.
Apple can make more profit selling a single MacBook than they'll make selling around 20 netbooks (and that's being generous and assuming they make the netbooks as ugly as the current netbook offerings).
Well then by saying that you're admitting that the MacBook is overpriced if there is that much gross profit.
Well then by saying that you're admitting that the MacBook is overpriced if there is that much gross profit.
No, it isn't. It's saying that they don't' wish to compete in a market that makes hardly any money despite the unit sales which means that Apple would have to lower quality or have to install a bunch of crapware from 3rd-parties in order to turn a profit. Both of these options would weaken the public image of the Apple and Mac branding which would hurt Apple tremendously in the long run.
Your "that much gross profit" is comparing one machine which has a process costing $300 (the cost of most netbooks) with one that has $20 processor. And that is just one component. It's disingenuous, even for you, to think that any Mac is over priced comapred to a netbook without even mentioning the completely different HW being used or the free to old OS being used.
Have you noticed all these nice polite new members who are continuously hammering the M$ spin over and over.
Trolls come in all shapes and sizes.
I actually don't think that this particular (numbers) conversation is troll driven. There are plenty of Apple fans who are willing to ignore facts and stats to try and confirm their own agenda.
Basically it goes like this:
I don't like a particular Apple product.
Apple product has missing features.
Apple product is too expensive.
Apple doesn't make the product I want.
Add to that:
.... and all MY FRIENDS agree
ergo:
This Apple product will never sell
This is another "cube"
Apple have taken their eye off the ball
Apple are only interested in iPods
Apple have shot themselves in the foot
They are just sooooo greedy
Bill Gates gives his money to charity
Steve Jobs ate my hampster
and
....all MY FRIENDS agree
Anyone who thinks that Apple's Mac business is just treading water should take another look at the title of this thread.
You know, I agree with you to a point.. I know there are plenty of computer users who will never do anything more than email, surf the web, import a few photos and open the occasional word doc.. For them, if they are already accustomed to PC's and are on a tight budget, they may be better off buying a $500 to $700 PC.. As Apple has clearly re-iterated time and time again, they are not interested in creating products for that demographic.
The Mac's real value is in the software, for people who want to do more than the above.. The integration between the Mac hardware and OSX, and media creation with the iLife/iWork apps and Apple's mobile devices is where the real value lies for most users.. And of course, to do a lot of the media creation that you can do on a Mac, you will need better specs than you will find on most budget PC's. Hence, even with a 13" screen, the entry level MacBook is a very capable machine and reasonably priced for what you get.
I would think if you just want to do basic stuff with a machine, you'd do best getting a pc with linux, like a Dell inspiron Ubuntu or a System76, or a locally bought desktop. But of course microsoft would never want you to think about that.
After all, with linux, you get a wide variety of free software, a free OS, great online support, a wonderful community, low system requirements, and a highly secure, intuitive, cohesive system.
Comments
http://www.mojaveexperiment.com/html/?fbid=wjgY-8Vym3f
The deceptiveness of the "Mojave Experiment" aside, at the bottom of that web page, in small, light grey text, Macrostuffed points out that:
"Some product features are only available in certain editions of Windows Vista and may require advanced or additional hardware."
What else needs to be said???
What did I add to supplement my iMac? Just a separate disk drive for the built-in backup, called Time Machine.
My wife says there's no longer any swearing from the office - and that's priceless
What are you talking about? You act as if if the firewall in Windows goes down then your entire system is going to get taken down. That is completely and utterly untrue. With a modern Windows system, XP3 and Vista SP1, the only way a system can become compromised is if the USER downloads, installs, and runs malicious software despite multiple warnings from the browser, security software, built-in security software, and Windows itself.
I've been using Windows for the better portion of the last two decades and I have never had happen what you described. I have never seen it happen to any one either.
It's pure FUD on Apple's part.
Oh and HP Photosmart Essentials (my bad on the name) looks exactly like iPhoto as far as UI and the way it works
every average windows users ie toolbars are about 5 toolbars high. They just install everything just as long as it's free (and easy)... maybe that's who the advert is marketed to.
I'll say that Windows had created a huge third party market for companies to require massive add-on device drivers so you can "take advantage of the device full feature set" [printers, scanners, all-in-one products with fax] while these same devices work in Linux and OS X with no added binary additions. They don't get to take advantage of the HP integrated graphics tools and whatnot, but no one buys these peripherals for such addons. People don't buy an HP Inkjet/Photoprinter because they want to use Photoshop Elements. Hell, they just want to print pictures.
Haven't you heard of HPLIP? that's a tool created by HP. Or were you meaning the shovelware that comes with the printer?
What I said in my original post still stands. The TCO (total cost of ownership) of a Mac is *lower* than a PC. It always has been and always will be. They last longer, they need less repairs, the majority of the repairs are covered by warranty, and they need no antivirus or maintenance products. They are made of higher quality parts, not the same parts as the average PC and are designed better than the average PC as well.
Those are the facts and nothing you can say will change them.
Instead of telling us these re the facts can you please show us the research you have done?
In my own experience and the experiences of those people I know it seems that there is no difference in the amount of issues that Mac's have compared to PC's. I have already stated my own experience over the last 2 years where my MBP has certainly been much worse than my cheaper Dell and has been back to Apple twice already. Both times were said to be issues with overheating. That is what you get with Macs, overheating! Because they make everything so bloody small with no room for airflow. You should here my MBP when I am doing something as simple as unzipping a large file, it sounds like a 747 taking off.
Mac's are not made from higher quality parts, they are the same inside as any decently specced PC but just more expensive. Sure on the outside they look different but crack them open and they are all the same.
OSX is king, this is why a Mac is still such a great experience. You can come on here and say all you want that OSX kicks Windows Butt in the OS stakes and I will agree with everything you say. But by keeping on repeating that Macs are better quality than PC's on the hardware side you are just confirming to me that you are stuck in the 1990's. It used to be that way but trust me it is no longer. I am not the only one saying this, I know loads of people who say exactly the same. Just look at the Apple support forums and read some posts and you will see how many issues that Mac users are getting now - It just doesn't work anymore and therefore it is getting impossible to justify the extra cost.
I honestly would not recommend anyone I know spend the extra money on a Mac at the moment. I really wouldn't. They are much better off buying a Dell with 3 years warranty and using the change for something else.
Apple had their big chance 2 years ago and dropped the ball, they have neglected the computer business while they were too busy concentrating on their toys and this is the year they will pay for that mistake. Maybe it can be turned around, but they need to do something about their hardware and their costs.
People keep talking about high end, quality products? Where is the Blu-Ray? Where is the extra long battery life ultra-portable or netbook? (note not cheap low end netbooks, there is a growing market for $699 10" power netbooks) These are the directions the market is going in and yet Apple are still talking about phones.
Instead of telling us these re the facts can you please show us the research you have done?
In my own experience and the experiences of those people I know it seems that there is no difference in the amount of issues that Mac's have compared to PC's. I have already stated my own experience over the last 2 years where my MBP has certainly been much worse than my cheaper Dell and has been back to Apple twice already. Both times were said to be issues with overheating. That is what you get with Macs, overheating! Because they make everything so bloody small with no room for airflow. You should here my MBP when I am doing something as simple as unzipping a large file, it sounds like a 747 taking off.
Mac's are not made from higher quality parts, they are the same inside as any decently specced PC but just more expensive. Sure on the outside they look different but crack them open and they are all the same.
OSX is king, this is why a Mac is still such a great experience. You can come on here and say all you want that OSX kicks Windows Butt in the OS stakes and I will agree with everything you say. But by keeping on repeating that Macs are better quality than PC's on the hardware side you are just confirming to me that you are stuck in the 1990's. It used to be that way but trust me it is no longer. I am not the only one saying this, I know loads of people who say exactly the same. Just look at the Apple support forums and read some posts and you will see how many issues that Mac users are getting now - It just doesn't work anymore and therefore it is getting impossible to justify the extra cost.
I honestly would not recommend anyone I know spend the extra money on a Mac at the moment. I really wouldn't. They are much better off buying a Dell with 3 years warranty and using the change for something else.
Apple had their big chance 2 years ago and dropped the ball, they have neglected the computer business while they were too busy concentrating on their toys and this is the year they will pay for that mistake. Maybe it can be turned around, but they need to do something about their hardware and their costs.
People keep talking about high end, quality products? Where is the Blu-Ray? Where is the extra long battery life ultra-portable or netbook? (note not cheap low end netbooks, there is a growing market for $699 10" power netbooks) These are the directions the market is going in and yet Apple are still talking about phones.
Do yourself a favor and actually look at the motherboards, chipsets, capacitors and more from the MacPro power supply, drive slots and more. Seriously, check under the hood, compare the actual PCI/PCI Express slots, the material choices and more.
Then compare that to an off-the-shelf motherboard that matches the guts of the Mac Pro, right down to the fasteners.
Once done, and priced to compare, then talk.
Apple had their big chance 2 years ago and dropped the ball, they have neglected the computer business while they were too busy concentrating on their toys and this is the year they will pay for that mistake. Maybe it can be turned around, but they need to do something about their hardware and their costs.
People keep talking about high end, quality products? Where is the Blu-Ray? Where is the extra long battery life ultra-portable or netbook? (note not cheap low end netbooks, there is a growing market for $699 10" power netbooks) These are the directions the market is going in and yet Apple are still talking about phones.
I could not agree more. There is absolutely no reason why Apple does not have a 7-11" netbook/tablet out right now. Netbooks could not be more popular as this article says. Their sales are skyrocketing. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/26/te...h/26pogue.html
The iMac has not been keeping up- No Blu-ray, No LED, stale design, etc, etc.
Even this site seems to have morphed into the iPhone Insider.
In a new series of web ads, Microsoft portrays two slot machines, one ringing up a Mac with bits of garbage, and the other presenting a cheaper generic PC along with the Zune, Xbox 360, and other things buyers could get with the money they'd save with the PC.
The banner ads are part of Microsoft's new ad campaign promoting cheap hardware, which includes new TV spots contrasting Macs with generic PCs entirely on price. There's not much mention of why the generic PCs are so much cheaper than the Macs they are contrasted with, nor any mention of software expenses.
Microsoft hardware?
Microsoft's new focus on cheap hardware prices is particularly interesting given the fact that the company has been unable to profitably market its own hardware devices outside of its Microsoft-branded keyboards and mice that it bundles with many new PCs as part of its Windows software licensing.
The company has spent billions on the Xbox 360, which is even now only barely clearing a hardware profit before considering the hardware repairs that have plagued the game console. With the Zune, Microsoft has been completely unable to create any impact within the market for MP3 players dominated by Apple's iPod.
Selling software with hardware, and vice versa
Microsoft is a software-centric company. It has long sold its software using cheap hardware. However, Microsoft's software isn't cheap. Retail upgrades for Windows are nearly twice as expensive as Mac OS X, and infinitely more expensive than Linux, which can be obtained for free.
While the need for software compatibility with Windows has long rendered Microsoft's operating system monopoly untouchable, the emergence of new computers that rely more on the web and email have broken that hold. Ubuntu markets a low cost distribution of Linux to PC makers exploiting that new market.
Apple has added sophisticated music, photo, and movie editing software to its web and email offerings, positioning the company's Macs as not just a suitable alternative to Windows PCs, but also more useful and valuable option right out of the box. That pits Apple's business model of selling hardware with cheap software directly opposite to Microsoft's business of selling its software on cheap hardware.
What happened to "Total Cost of Ownership"?
Macs not only bundle in free software missing on the PC side, but also offer personalized support in Apple's retail stores, which is free to those who don't mind standing around waiting for an available genius, and very cheap to users who want a regular One-on-One membership that allows them to visit the stores for virtually unlimited advice and training sessions.
If Microsoft portrayed the software and support expenses of generic Windows PCs into its slot machine graphics, the results would be less flattering.
[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]
Mac is really expensive, Mac community should admit that!
I bought my wife a new MacBook for Christmas. I sold her old one (4 years old) for exactly half what the new one cost. This made the new one less than any Dell, Acer or Sony.
Last year I sold my dual G5 for half what my new MacPro cost.
I have been doing this for nearly 25 years with Macs. So, like any quality product they hold their value really well.
So I ask you, what is a four year old PC worth?
BTW: I get calls from the people who buy these old Macs from me regularly asking when I am upgrading again as they want to pass theirs on to kids and family.
p.s. How is the weather there in Redmond?
There is absolutely no reason why Apple does not have a 7-11" netbook/tablet out right now. Netbooks could not be more popular as this article says. Their sales are skyrocketing. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/26/te...h/26pogue.html
There is at the very least one very good reason why Apple has not got a netbook out right now. That reason is there is almost no profit to be made from that market.
Apple can make more profit selling a single MacBook than they'll make selling around 20 netbooks (and that's being generous and assuming they make the netbooks as ugly as the current netbook offerings).
Yes it has. Remember that in the first few years of Job's return, Mac sales were in the doldrums. It's quite likely that the amount of active Mac users didn't really change that much... while the amount of PC users took off. It's only in the last four years that the Mac has started to reclaim some of it's lost market share."
Whatever the last 4 years is called, it wasn't real growth, at best just catching up to losses to hold the 25m number consistent over the long term.
Either Apple has some new cutomers or the "existing base" appear to be buying three times as many Macs as before."
As long as the 25 million number is holding, increased Mac sales can only mean new customers are replacing defections and existing users and buying more frequently.
Whatever the last 4 years is called, it wasn't real growth, at best just catching up to losses to hold the 25m number consistent over the long term.
Don't get too hung up on the 25m number. These numbers (even whan announced by Apple) are a little vague. For example... how long have we been hearing that there are a billion PCs out there. Does that figure ever change?
Yes the last 4 years was REAL growth. Growth in sales which (however way you calculate it) must equate to a change in the user base.
Last 4 years of Mac sales = 28.1 million
Prior 4 years of Mac sales = 12.9 million
Don't get too hung up on the 25m number. These numbers (even whan announced by Apple) are a little vague. For example... how long have we been hearing that there are a billion PCs out there. Does that figure ever change?
Yes the last 4 years was REAL growth. Growth in sales which (however way you calculate it) must equate to a change in the user base.
Last 4 years of Mac sales = 28.1 million
Prior 4 years of Mac sales = 12.9 million
Have you noticed all these nice polite new members who are continuously hammering the M$ spin over and over. Normal trolls get nasty, these polite guys are in suits in Redmond lol. My bet is many of them after a few weeks of this will be dying to try a Mac to see why we love them so much lol
Don't get too hung up on the 25m number. These numbers (even whan announced by Apple) are a little vague. For example... how long have we been hearing that there are a billion PCs out there. Does that figure ever change?
Yes the last 4 years was REAL growth. Growth in sales which (however way you calculate it) must equate to a change in the user base.
Last 4 years of Mac sales = 28.1 million
Prior 4 years of Mac sales = 12.9 million
server glitch I got a duplicate post!
Don't get too hung up on the 25m number. These numbers (even whan announced by Apple) are a little vague. For example... how long have we been hearing that there are a billion PCs out there. Does that figure ever change?
Yes the last 4 years was REAL growth. Growth in sales which (however way you calculate it) must equate to a change in the user base.
Last 4 years of Mac sales = 28.1 million
Prior 4 years of Mac sales = 12.9 million
There's no credible way to count all the PCs in the world. 25 million is a lot more specific and manageable than a worldwide guesstimate. Unless Apple has something more recent and accurate, that remains the best estimate anybody, including Apple, has.
Some personal but relevant data:
Wife and I have a two person, at home, graphic arts business. Mac users since 1988. Keep every mac AT LEAST 4 years. NEVER, EVER had one die. Replaced HDs, RAM, fans, etc, but each computer has been sold or given away after it's served its time.
Ever since ebay, I get used mac desktop towers and Apple Cinema displays. I can't believe how often people upgrade and get rid of perfectly good computers! Great stuff and not too expensive. I still get over 4 years out of each computer and the macs make us money in our business and we never have to call the geeks to fix them. That's real world stuff, not theory.
The average computer user is MUCH better served by a Mac than a windows computer. Every family member or friend I have ever converted has thanked me over and over. Against my advice, one friend converted from mac to windows and the tears continue. Now I have my 17-year old nephew on a mac and he is converting his dad as well. Funny...his dad used to think that macs were all hype but now he sees the light. MS should be worried about their long-term prospects.
The average user CANNOT keep windows computer running trouble-free. EVERYTHING gets messed up due to spyware and malevolent parasites and there is no way to keep them out without dedicating lots of time to the problem. By comparison, I run our macs trouble-free with no virus protection whatsoever--just basic DOs and DONT's regarding security and passwords.
If you are techie and you want this or that, fine. Run what you like but save your non-techie friends from the horror that is windows. The windows experience is dehumanizing for the average computer user.
There is at the very least one very good reason why Apple has not got a netbook out right now. That reason is there is almost no profit to be made from that market.
Apple can make more profit selling a single MacBook than they'll make selling around 20 netbooks (and that's being generous and assuming they make the netbooks as ugly as the current netbook offerings).
Well then by saying that you're admitting that the MacBook is overpriced if there is that much gross profit.
Well then by saying that you're admitting that the MacBook is overpriced if there is that much gross profit.
No, it isn't. It's saying that they don't' wish to compete in a market that makes hardly any money despite the unit sales which means that Apple would have to lower quality or have to install a bunch of crapware from 3rd-parties in order to turn a profit. Both of these options would weaken the public image of the Apple and Mac branding which would hurt Apple tremendously in the long run.
Your "that much gross profit" is comparing one machine which has a process costing $300 (the cost of most netbooks) with one that has $20 processor. And that is just one component. It's disingenuous, even for you, to think that any Mac is over priced comapred to a netbook without even mentioning the completely different HW being used or the free to old OS being used.
Have you noticed all these nice polite new members who are continuously hammering the M$ spin over and over.
Trolls come in all shapes and sizes.
I actually don't think that this particular (numbers) conversation is troll driven. There are plenty of Apple fans who are willing to ignore facts and stats to try and confirm their own agenda.
Basically it goes like this:
I don't like a particular Apple product.
Apple product has missing features.
Apple product is too expensive.
Apple doesn't make the product I want.
Add to that:
.... and all MY FRIENDS agree
ergo:
This Apple product will never sell
This is another "cube"
Apple have taken their eye off the ball
Apple are only interested in iPods
Apple have shot themselves in the foot
They are just sooooo greedy
Bill Gates gives his money to charity
Steve Jobs ate my hampster
and
....all MY FRIENDS agree
Anyone who thinks that Apple's Mac business is just treading water should take another look at the title of this thread.
You know, I agree with you to a point.. I know there are plenty of computer users who will never do anything more than email, surf the web, import a few photos and open the occasional word doc.. For them, if they are already accustomed to PC's and are on a tight budget, they may be better off buying a $500 to $700 PC.. As Apple has clearly re-iterated time and time again, they are not interested in creating products for that demographic.
The Mac's real value is in the software, for people who want to do more than the above.. The integration between the Mac hardware and OSX, and media creation with the iLife/iWork apps and Apple's mobile devices is where the real value lies for most users.. And of course, to do a lot of the media creation that you can do on a Mac, you will need better specs than you will find on most budget PC's. Hence, even with a 13" screen, the entry level MacBook is a very capable machine and reasonably priced for what you get.
I would think if you just want to do basic stuff with a machine, you'd do best getting a pc with linux, like a Dell inspiron Ubuntu or a System76, or a locally bought desktop. But of course microsoft would never want you to think about that.
After all, with linux, you get a wide variety of free software, a free OS, great online support, a wonderful community, low system requirements, and a highly secure, intuitive, cohesive system.