I hear ya. Kids today are bunch of spoiled brats who got totally indulged by mom and dad, now they think they are entitled to get everything they want and for free.
Get Skype free on AT&T 3G? Yeah. Should the feds force Apple to sell Sony PCs in the Apple Store then and, on top of that, require that Apple can't charge Sony a cent? Or how about make Toyota dealers sell GM cars not allow the Toyota dealer to get a cut?
That's how stupid this Skype-on-AT&T3G-for-free idea is.
Toyota does make GMs, in Toyota Plants. Really though the argument is not about what they're saying you can and can not do. It's about changing terms of service in a "semi-unethical" way
I hear ya. Kids today are bunch of spoiled brats who got totally indulged by mom and dad, now they think they are entitled to get everything they want and for free.
Why do I think I'm listening to Paul Lynde when I read this?
So what if broadband providers (like Comcast) decide to block Skype? Or they decide to charge customers more money to use apps like Skype? Apple's iPhone eco system makes it easy to assert this level of control. Would you feel the same if it spread to all service providers?
It's a private contract entered into when customers make their purchase.
I thought the US was about free enterprise and a lack of government interference.
SKYPE IS NOT AN ESSENTIAL COMMUNICATIONS SERVICE
They are also on a level playing field with other VOIP applications, if there was a restriction forcing people to use an AT&T provided App they might have a case.
The end result of government interference is that the carriers will raise the price of cellular service for everyone, regardless of whether you actually use Skype, tethering, Slingbox, etc.
I knew if I read long enough, I would find one useful post on this thread. Thanks.
Doesn't the government want any business to make money?
I think I recently heard that at their current text message rates they are making about $1000 US per meg sent!!! These guys are making a killing at the expense of the consumer and even companies like Sprint who have lost 3 million subscribers found $600,000 for their CFO to take personal trips (apparently he makes up for it by repurposing hotel pens and spreading them around the office to help save money!!!) Point is - fair profit is one thing, taking advantage of us is quiet another. (see the story here http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/20.../?ref=business)
I hear ya. Kids today are bunch of spoiled brats who got totally indulged by mom and dad, now they think they are entitled to get everything they want and for free.
Get Skype free on AT&T 3G? Yeah. Should the feds force Apple to sell Sony PCs in the Apple Store then and, on top of that, require that Apple can't charge Sony a cent? Or how about make Toyota dealers sell GM cars and prohibit the Toyota dealer from getting a cut?
That's how stupid this Skype-on-AT&T3G-for-free idea is.
It's not about getting anything for free. Consumers PAY to transmit IP data over AT&T's network, and AT&T is discriminating against certain types of devices and data. That is illegal with or without network neutrality. If restricting the use of networks to only approved devices for approved purposes were legal, we'd still be renting lame ass bulky black phones from the telephone companies, there would be no answering machines, no fax machines, and no dial-up internet that kicked off the internet revolution as we know it. If AT&T needs to charge more for it's data plans and add caps, fine; that's legal. What they are doing right now isn't and it needs to stop.
Was thinking a cellular to wifi conversion router would be pretty cool. Just stick your usb or card in the router and it acts like a wifi router. Dont get too technical with me. It's all just a 5 year away idea in my head.
Actually, it's a five year-old idea at best. Such routers are manufactured by several companies already.
Personally, I'm glad AT&T is restricting Skype to wifi. Monthly charges are their incentive to subsidize the iPhone so heavily, and if people can get their voice elsewhere on the same device, data rates will have to increase or subsidies will have to decrease. From an end-user and stockholder standpoint, I want the iPhone to have a broad market. If the price goes up, the user base shrinks over time, and Apple and third-party devs will make less money, decreasing their incentive to make it a great platform. I'd support a significant monthly service charge for VOIP over-the-air, but I don't think it's worth ruining anyone's margins over. In the end, it would only hurt the majority of users who didn't really need VOIP anyway.
I prefer to stay right where I'm at and protest against a doctrine whose central tenet is based upon the misguided concept of separate but equal.
Are you still talking about a service contract like everyone else, or have you really increased the scope to include the philosophical underpinnings of segregation?
I think it's OK to segregate customers from non-customers. Now, if you're being treated in a different manner than other customers I'd say you have a valid point, but I don't see that happening.
In the end, it would only hurt the majority of users who didn't really need VOIP anyway.
Yes, just like VOIP was going to kill traditional phones at home with people making all their calls on their computers. It didn't but interestingly enough, cell phones might. Stop the alarmist hype. And as a shareholder, why don't you get ATT to work to treat its customers fairly rather than take everything they can get? You seem to be living in a pre-AIG world - get over it, those days are not coming back.
Actually, it's a five year-old idea at best. Such routers are manufactured by several companies already.
Personally, I'm glad AT&T is restricting Skype to wifi. Monthly charges are their incentive to subsidize the iPhone so heavily, and if people can get their voice elsewhere on the same device, data rates will have to increase or subsidies will have to decrease. From an end-user and stockholder standpoint, I want the iPhone to have a broad market. If the price goes up, the user base shrinks over time, and Apple and third-party devs will make less money, decreasing their incentive to make it a great platform. I'd support a significant monthly service charge for VOIP over-the-air, but I don't think it's worth ruining anyone's margins over. In the end, it would only hurt the majority of users who didn't really need VOIP anyway.
So why does anyone care about tethering and it's fees if they can pay a one time fee to change 3g to wifi. Thus the iPhone would see wifi allowing such transmission (because it's the software on the phone that detects what network your on (i believe))
Now do they make these in mobile, car installation units. Allowing for all passengers to access wifi while enjoying the ride? Or imagine in in dash comp (mini) with a multi-touch interface hooked up to a 3g2wifi router allowing for maps, weather, road conditions, itunes (put a click wheel on the steering thing with a heads up display on window for artist song album) all sync able with your home comp via wifi. and the best part. When they upgrade standards you just replace your cellular card in the trunk mounted router.
Yes, just like VOIP was going to kill traditional phones at home with people making all their calls on their computers. It didn't but interestingly enough, cell phones might. Stop the alarmist hype. And as a shareholder, why don't you get ATT to work to treat its customers fairly rather than take everything they can get? You seem to be living in a pre-AIG world - get over it, those days are not coming back.
This is very much not the same situation as the one you're comparing it to. Traditional phones didn't require a carrier subsidy to avoid an upfront hardware cost of $600 to the consumer. That's a lot of cheddar, yo! And it has to come from somewhere. If monthly charges were partially circumvented by VOIP, AT&T would make less money from iPhone customers and would have less incentive to subsidize hardware upfront. Only a very small percentage of people are willing to fork out more than $200-300 upfront for a cell phone, no matter how much ass it kicks. Hopefully nobody has to explain this to you in even plainer terms.
I don't own nearly enough AAPL to have pull with Apple, let alone AT&T by proxy. I'm a regular guy - like you, but I don't talk about things I clearly don't understand.
I'm absolutely clueless as to how you're tying AIG into this. And what days, exactly, are not coming back? How drunk are you right now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by m2002brian
So why does anyone care about tethering and it's fees if they can pay a one time fee to change 3g to wifi. Thus the iPhone would see wifi allowing such transmission (because it's the software on the phone that detects what network your on (i believe))
Now do they make these in mobile, car installation units. Allowing for all passengers to access wifi while enjoying the ride? Or imagine in in dash comp (mini) with a multi-touch interface hooked up to a 3g2wifi router allowing for maps, weather, road conditions, itunes (put a click wheel on the steering thing with a heads up display on window for artist song album) all sync able with your home comp via wifi. and the best part. When they upgrade standards you just replace your cellular card in the trunk mounted router.
First, he's talking about using an aircard, which is sold for the sole purpose of tethering, and with a service plan for data access on a computer. The guy I know that has an aircard router is actually a cab driver. He has the router installed in the cab, and his customers use his network.
First, he's talking about using an aircard, which is sold for the sole purpose of tethering, and with a service plan for data access on a computer. The guy I know that has an aircard router is actually a cab driver. He has the router installed in the cab, and his customers use his network.
If it acts as a tether, then the iPhone should see wifi (in theory) and allow VIOP. Right?
So for $40 a month I can have unlimited data and email from t-mobile. Run it through a router convert to wifi and use VOIP. Right?
Although it might make it hard to call from, say, the park.
This is very much not the same situation as the one you're comparing it to. Traditional phones didn't require a carrier subsidy to avoid an upfront hardware cost of $600 to the consumer. That's a lot of cheddar, yo! And it has to come from somewhere. If monthly charges were partially circumvented by VOIP, AT&T would make less money from iPhone customers and would have less incentive to subsidize hardware upfront. Only a very small percentage of people are willing to fork out more than $200-300 upfront for a cell phone, no matter how much ass it kicks. Hopefully nobody has to explain this to you in even plainer terms.
I don't own nearly enough AAPL to have pull with Apple, let alone AT&T by proxy. I'm a regular guy - like you, but I don't talk about things I clearly don't understand.
I'm absolutely clueless as to how you're tying AIG into this. And what days, exactly, are not coming back? How drunk are you right now?
I paid full price for my unsubsidized v1 iPhone so it would be okay to use Skype on that or one of the unsubidize iPhones ATT is selling right now. 2. Being a shareholder gives you certain rights. Read them. 3. As a consumer I am not going to let a company get away with trying to screw me over. That is how AIG came into this - their actions have changed the business world forever. 4. To paraphrase Churchill, "I may be drunk but you are ugly. And I will be sober in the morning." Just kidding.
If it acts as a tether, then the iPhone should see wifi (in theory) and allow VIOP. Right?
So for $40 a month I can have unlimited data and email from t-mobile. Run it through a router convert to wifi and use VOIP. Right?
Although it might make it hard to call from, say, the park.
Simple. Go to: www.joikuspot.com. Download the free version. Install it on your Symbian phone. Did I say Symbian? Connect your iPhone to your Symbian phone via wifi. As always, the Symbian phone will do the heavy lifting and connect to the 3G network. Tell AT&T, and T-Mobile to "eff" off.
If AT&T doesn't want to allow that feature on their network, who are we or anyone else to stop them? When you sign up for the service, you agree to their terms do you not?
If it acts as a tether, then the iPhone should see wifi (in theory) and allow VIOP. Right?
So for $40 a month I can have unlimited data and email from t-mobile. Run it through a router convert to wifi and use VOIP. Right?
If your iPhone is connecting from itself to WiFi then VoIP will work. The device isnt' smart enough to know what is beyond that network connection so it's a moot point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulk001
I paid full price for my unsubsidized v1 iPhone so it would be okay to use Skype on that or one of the unsubidize iPhones ATT is selling right now. 2. Being a shareholder gives you certain rights. Read them. 3. As a consumer I am not going to let a company get away with trying to screw me over. That is how AIG came into this - their actions have changed the business world forever. 4. To paraphrase Churchill, "I may be drunk but you are ugly. And I will be sober in the morning."
You didn't pay full price for the original iPhone, you paid a price that didn't have a contract directly tied to it upon purchase. Beyond that, the use of Skype on AT&T has to do with deals inked between Apple and AT&T that Apple will not allow VoIP apps to be used over AT&T's network. Being a shareholder of either AT&T and/or Apple does not give you any more rights than a non-shareholder. You can only legally do what you are allowed to do per your contract.
There was a simple hack in iPhone OS v1.x that allowed you to use your carrier's IP address to set up an ad-hoc network that made the device think it was on WiFi, thus allowing you use VoIP apps on their network.
Comments
I hear ya. Kids today are bunch of spoiled brats who got totally indulged by mom and dad, now they think they are entitled to get everything they want and for free.
Get Skype free on AT&T 3G? Yeah. Should the feds force Apple to sell Sony PCs in the Apple Store then and, on top of that, require that Apple can't charge Sony a cent? Or how about make Toyota dealers sell GM cars not allow the Toyota dealer to get a cut?
That's how stupid this Skype-on-AT&T3G-for-free idea is.
Toyota does make GMs, in Toyota Plants. Really though the argument is not about what they're saying you can and can not do. It's about changing terms of service in a "semi-unethical" way
I hear ya. Kids today are bunch of spoiled brats who got totally indulged by mom and dad, now they think they are entitled to get everything they want and for free.
Why do I think I'm listening to Paul Lynde when I read this?
I thought the US was about free enterprise and a lack of government interference.
SKYPE IS NOT AN ESSENTIAL COMMUNICATIONS SERVICE
They are also on a level playing field with other VOIP applications, if there was a restriction forcing people to use an AT&T provided App they might have a case.
Don't like it?
Use your freedom to go elsewhere.
Use your freedom to go elsewhere.
I prefer to stay right where I'm at and protest against a doctrine whose central tenet is based upon the misguided concept of separate but equal.
The end result of government interference is that the carriers will raise the price of cellular service for everyone, regardless of whether you actually use Skype, tethering, Slingbox, etc.
I knew if I read long enough, I would find one useful post on this thread. Thanks.
Doesn't the government want any business to make money?
I think I recently heard that at their current text message rates they are making about $1000 US per meg sent!!! These guys are making a killing at the expense of the consumer and even companies like Sprint who have lost 3 million subscribers found $600,000 for their CFO to take personal trips (apparently he makes up for it by repurposing hotel pens and spreading them around the office to help save money!!!) Point is - fair profit is one thing, taking advantage of us is quiet another. (see the story here http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/20.../?ref=business)
I hear ya. Kids today are bunch of spoiled brats who got totally indulged by mom and dad, now they think they are entitled to get everything they want and for free.
Get Skype free on AT&T 3G? Yeah. Should the feds force Apple to sell Sony PCs in the Apple Store then and, on top of that, require that Apple can't charge Sony a cent? Or how about make Toyota dealers sell GM cars and prohibit the Toyota dealer from getting a cut?
That's how stupid this Skype-on-AT&T3G-for-free idea is.
It's not about getting anything for free. Consumers PAY to transmit IP data over AT&T's network, and AT&T is discriminating against certain types of devices and data. That is illegal with or without network neutrality. If restricting the use of networks to only approved devices for approved purposes were legal, we'd still be renting lame ass bulky black phones from the telephone companies, there would be no answering machines, no fax machines, and no dial-up internet that kicked off the internet revolution as we know it. If AT&T needs to charge more for it's data plans and add caps, fine; that's legal. What they are doing right now isn't and it needs to stop.
Was thinking a cellular to wifi conversion router would be pretty cool. Just stick your usb or card in the router and it acts like a wifi router. Dont get too technical with me. It's all just a 5 year away idea in my head.
Actually, it's a five year-old idea at best. Such routers are manufactured by several companies already.
Personally, I'm glad AT&T is restricting Skype to wifi. Monthly charges are their incentive to subsidize the iPhone so heavily, and if people can get their voice elsewhere on the same device, data rates will have to increase or subsidies will have to decrease. From an end-user and stockholder standpoint, I want the iPhone to have a broad market. If the price goes up, the user base shrinks over time, and Apple and third-party devs will make less money, decreasing their incentive to make it a great platform. I'd support a significant monthly service charge for VOIP over-the-air, but I don't think it's worth ruining anyone's margins over. In the end, it would only hurt the majority of users who didn't really need VOIP anyway.
I prefer to stay right where I'm at and protest against a doctrine whose central tenet is based upon the misguided concept of separate but equal.
Are you still talking about a service contract like everyone else, or have you really increased the scope to include the philosophical underpinnings of segregation?
I think it's OK to segregate customers from non-customers. Now, if you're being treated in a different manner than other customers I'd say you have a valid point, but I don't see that happening.
In the end, it would only hurt the majority of users who didn't really need VOIP anyway.
Yes, just like VOIP was going to kill traditional phones at home with people making all their calls on their computers. It didn't but interestingly enough, cell phones might. Stop the alarmist hype. And as a shareholder, why don't you get ATT to work to treat its customers fairly rather than take everything they can get? You seem to be living in a pre-AIG world - get over it, those days are not coming back.
Actually, it's a five year-old idea at best. Such routers are manufactured by several companies already.
Personally, I'm glad AT&T is restricting Skype to wifi. Monthly charges are their incentive to subsidize the iPhone so heavily, and if people can get their voice elsewhere on the same device, data rates will have to increase or subsidies will have to decrease. From an end-user and stockholder standpoint, I want the iPhone to have a broad market. If the price goes up, the user base shrinks over time, and Apple and third-party devs will make less money, decreasing their incentive to make it a great platform. I'd support a significant monthly service charge for VOIP over-the-air, but I don't think it's worth ruining anyone's margins over. In the end, it would only hurt the majority of users who didn't really need VOIP anyway.
So why does anyone care about tethering and it's fees if they can pay a one time fee to change 3g to wifi. Thus the iPhone would see wifi allowing such transmission (because it's the software on the phone that detects what network your on (i believe))
Now do they make these in mobile, car installation units. Allowing for all passengers to access wifi while enjoying the ride? Or imagine in in dash comp (mini) with a multi-touch interface hooked up to a 3g2wifi router allowing for maps, weather, road conditions, itunes (put a click wheel on the steering thing with a heads up display on window for artist song album) all sync able with your home comp via wifi. and the best part. When they upgrade standards you just replace your cellular card in the trunk mounted router.
I prefer to stay right where I'm at and protest against a doctrine whose central tenet is based upon the misguided concept of separate but equal.
What part of YOU signed a contract agreeing to certain terms and conditions in order to get something YOU wanted do you have trouble understanding?
If you want Skype over 3G get something that does it, like WinMo and Symbian devices that have had it for ages.
Have you read the disclaimers re: Skype and emergency calls?
As I said before it is not an essential service.
Yes, just like VOIP was going to kill traditional phones at home with people making all their calls on their computers. It didn't but interestingly enough, cell phones might. Stop the alarmist hype. And as a shareholder, why don't you get ATT to work to treat its customers fairly rather than take everything they can get? You seem to be living in a pre-AIG world - get over it, those days are not coming back.
This is very much not the same situation as the one you're comparing it to. Traditional phones didn't require a carrier subsidy to avoid an upfront hardware cost of $600 to the consumer. That's a lot of cheddar, yo! And it has to come from somewhere. If monthly charges were partially circumvented by VOIP, AT&T would make less money from iPhone customers and would have less incentive to subsidize hardware upfront. Only a very small percentage of people are willing to fork out more than $200-300 upfront for a cell phone, no matter how much ass it kicks. Hopefully nobody has to explain this to you in even plainer terms.
I don't own nearly enough AAPL to have pull with Apple, let alone AT&T by proxy. I'm a regular guy - like you, but I don't talk about things I clearly don't understand.
I'm absolutely clueless as to how you're tying AIG into this. And what days, exactly, are not coming back? How drunk are you right now?
So why does anyone care about tethering and it's fees if they can pay a one time fee to change 3g to wifi. Thus the iPhone would see wifi allowing such transmission (because it's the software on the phone that detects what network your on (i believe))
Now do they make these in mobile, car installation units. Allowing for all passengers to access wifi while enjoying the ride? Or imagine in in dash comp (mini) with a multi-touch interface hooked up to a 3g2wifi router allowing for maps, weather, road conditions, itunes (put a click wheel on the steering thing with a heads up display on window for artist song album) all sync able with your home comp via wifi. and the best part. When they upgrade standards you just replace your cellular card in the trunk mounted router.
First, he's talking about using an aircard, which is sold for the sole purpose of tethering, and with a service plan for data access on a computer. The guy I know that has an aircard router is actually a cab driver. He has the router installed in the cab, and his customers use his network.
First, he's talking about using an aircard, which is sold for the sole purpose of tethering, and with a service plan for data access on a computer. The guy I know that has an aircard router is actually a cab driver. He has the router installed in the cab, and his customers use his network.
If it acts as a tether, then the iPhone should see wifi (in theory) and allow VIOP. Right?
So for $40 a month I can have unlimited data and email from t-mobile. Run it through a router convert to wifi and use VOIP. Right?
Although it might make it hard to call from, say, the park.
This is very much not the same situation as the one you're comparing it to. Traditional phones didn't require a carrier subsidy to avoid an upfront hardware cost of $600 to the consumer. That's a lot of cheddar, yo! And it has to come from somewhere. If monthly charges were partially circumvented by VOIP, AT&T would make less money from iPhone customers and would have less incentive to subsidize hardware upfront. Only a very small percentage of people are willing to fork out more than $200-300 upfront for a cell phone, no matter how much ass it kicks. Hopefully nobody has to explain this to you in even plainer terms.
I don't own nearly enough AAPL to have pull with Apple, let alone AT&T by proxy. I'm a regular guy - like you, but I don't talk about things I clearly don't understand.
I'm absolutely clueless as to how you're tying AIG into this. And what days, exactly, are not coming back? How drunk are you right now?
I paid full price for my unsubsidized v1 iPhone so it would be okay to use Skype on that or one of the unsubidize iPhones ATT is selling right now. 2. Being a shareholder gives you certain rights. Read them. 3. As a consumer I am not going to let a company get away with trying to screw me over. That is how AIG came into this - their actions have changed the business world forever. 4. To paraphrase Churchill, "I may be drunk but you are ugly. And I will be sober in the morning."
If it acts as a tether, then the iPhone should see wifi (in theory) and allow VIOP. Right?
So for $40 a month I can have unlimited data and email from t-mobile. Run it through a router convert to wifi and use VOIP. Right?
Although it might make it hard to call from, say, the park.
Simple. Go to: www.joikuspot.com. Download the free version. Install it on your Symbian phone. Did I say Symbian? Connect your iPhone to your Symbian phone via wifi. As always, the Symbian phone will do the heavy lifting and connect to the 3G network. Tell AT&T, and T-Mobile to "eff" off.
If it acts as a tether, then the iPhone should see wifi (in theory) and allow VIOP. Right?
So for $40 a month I can have unlimited data and email from t-mobile. Run it through a router convert to wifi and use VOIP. Right?
If your iPhone is connecting from itself to WiFi then VoIP will work. The device isnt' smart enough to know what is beyond that network connection so it's a moot point.
I paid full price for my unsubsidized v1 iPhone so it would be okay to use Skype on that or one of the unsubidize iPhones ATT is selling right now. 2. Being a shareholder gives you certain rights. Read them. 3. As a consumer I am not going to let a company get away with trying to screw me over. That is how AIG came into this - their actions have changed the business world forever. 4. To paraphrase Churchill, "I may be drunk but you are ugly. And I will be sober in the morning."
You didn't pay full price for the original iPhone, you paid a price that didn't have a contract directly tied to it upon purchase. Beyond that, the use of Skype on AT&T has to do with deals inked between Apple and AT&T that Apple will not allow VoIP apps to be used over AT&T's network. Being a shareholder of either AT&T and/or Apple does not give you any more rights than a non-shareholder. You can only legally do what you are allowed to do per your contract.
There was a simple hack in iPhone OS v1.x that allowed you to use your carrier's IP address to set up an ad-hoc network that made the device think it was on WiFi, thus allowing you use VoIP apps on their network.