But ANYTHING has the potential to be awesome. Or totally suck. At this point it's vaporware, and no info has been put forward to give the expectation that it would beat the iPhone in any way.
And "just have to wait for an app store (something MS does well with the Xbox) and the good stuff will just flow in" seems incredibly unrealistic.
Devs made tons of iPhone apps because the device was incredibly popular already. With a new device, it's a chicken and egg situation - people won't buy it for apps until the apps appear, but the devs won't create the apps until there's significant enough market penetration. Ironically, it's the same situation mac apps have faced over the years.
MS certainly could in theory make a device as good as the iPhone or better (assuming iPhone hasn't improved past that point by then). But even if they do, the lack of apps puts it at a disadvantage to the ipod touch.
again, its all speculation, thats all you can do with a photo like this. but if it is real, a device that looks like this could easily open a lot of doors.
and again, im not saying that it will be "As good or better" than the iPhone, im simply saying that it could compete with it, and therefor would probably succeed, the phone market is very different from the MP3 player market, people are far more likely to get a non-apple phone than they are to get a non-apple MP3 player.
if they put it on networks that dont have the iPhone (and therefor its not even directly competing) then they would just have more opportunity to sell it, which is my point, it could still be madly successful without even being as good as an iPhone.
Edit: the app store would be the least of their worries, the devs already working with apple could easily port the apps to new devices (they already are with android phones) that along with MS making their own, and their game studios... a lot of these apps are very cheap to produce, which means even if there are "only" a few million of the handset sold, then devs still will be making a profit. MS would also have the advantage to see what is already on the market, and how well certain apps sell, so they could clone those instantly.
again, if it is a phone MS would have the ability to doe something none of the other phone manufacturers can right now, and that is to bring to the table everything that the iPhone is/has. HTC can do perfectly good hardware, however they dont have any infristructure for music.
it also has style, something people look for in a phone. HTC doesn't have that.
finally, most phones on the market right now are single point touch screens, if this is multipoint (using what MS already has with the MS surface) then this could turn out to be pretty good.
again, its all about potential, its only a single image that may not even be real. exciting in theory only, much like when video game maker like sony/nintendo/ms release a new console, for that first 6 months of sitting back and waiting, you basically just get little peaks at what it could have...
But all of that (and I'm not willing to concede that the touch table thing MS has shown has any bearing on handset software) would require MS to release a phone running a version of WinMob that isn't available to its OEM partners.
Which would be kind of a huge problem, especially if such a phone were successful.
Is it in Microsoft's best interests to kill off HTC's Windows Mobile business?
But all of that (and I'm not willing to concede that the touch table thing MS has shown has any bearing on handset software) would require MS to release a phone running a version of WinMob that isn't available to its OEM partners.
Which would be kind of a huge problem, especially if such a phone were successful.
Is it in Microsoft's best interests to kill off HTC's Windows Mobile business?
in the long run, if they had to kill of HTC's WinMo business (which they wouldnt have to do) it probably would be better to have a single device for a software, so the software is a perfect fit for the hardware. something that has been helping apple out a lot lately.
the surface interface/tech is scalable, maybe not in full (obviously it would not have the 3d imaging tech) but the screen is much like that of the iPhone, and the software is similar as well.
in the long run, if they had to kill of HTC's WinMo business (which they wouldnt have to do) it probably would be better to have a single device for a software, so the software is a perfect fit for the hardware. something that has been helping apple out a lot lately.
the surface interface/tech is scalable, maybe not in full (obviously it would not have the 3d imaging tech) but the screen is much like that of the iPhone, and the software is similar as well.
But isn't the whole selling point of Windows Mobile (according to Ballmer) that it runs on multiple devices and give Microsoft's customers "choice"?
They could do it, I guess, but it would be a huge sea change for their strategy.
As far as Surface goes, doesn't it seem like vast overkill to try and scale that down to a phone? There are easier ways of developing touch gestures for a handset, I would think.
But isn't the whole selling point of Windows Mobile (according to Ballmer) that it runs on multiple devices and give Microsoft's customers "choice"?
They could do it, I guess, but it would be a huge sea change for their strategy.
As far as Surface goes, doesn't it seem like vast overkill to try and scale that down to a phone? There are easier ways of developing touch gestures for a handset, I would think.
well thats what im talking about, taking what they have learned from surface, and implement it into a phone.
i would expect them (hypothetically) to do WinMo7 which will still be pretty suspect at best, then on top of WinMo as a platform, they would do a Zune exclusive version that is more for just that single device.
im simply saying that it could compete with it, and therefor would probably succeed, the phone market is very different from the MP3 player market, people are far more likely to get a non-apple phone than they are to get a non-apple MP3 player.
So "compete with it" is all that is necessary to probably succeed? So why haven't palm or blackberry been able to do that yet? Or MS already with all the windows mobile phones that are already shipping?
You're right, the smartphone market is very different. But due to the success of the app store, I'd argue that in this next generation it's even harder to compete with apple.
How exactly is MS going to get the 20 thousand apps that iPhone reached so fast, particularly starting from zero installed base?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmilinGoat
if they put it on networks that dont have the iPhone (and therefor its not even directly competing)
Except that it sure looks like the iPhone has been compelling enough that people are willing to change networks for it. Sure looks like it is directly competing with all the phones on other networks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmilinGoat
Edit: the app store would be the least of their worries, the devs already working with apple could easily port the apps to new devices (they already are with android phones) that along with MS making their own, and their game studios... a lot of these apps are very cheap to produce, which means even if there are "only" a few million of the handset sold, then devs still will be making a profit. MS would also have the advantage to see what is already on the market, and how well certain apps sell, so they could clone those instantly.
I'm skeptical about "easily" and I'm skeptical that most devs will be motivated to go to the trouble of porting. After all, it's the same situation as macs and pcs, why bother with the marginal platform? Devs have already had the opportunity to do apps for windows mobile, I don't see why an iPhone knockoff would get them much more excited.
Zune HD, awesome idea! If the picture on engadget is viable, then I'm looking forward to the new sleek device from MS, sure to have b-e-a-utiful video quality.
Zune HD, awesome idea! If the picture on engadget is viable, then I'm looking forward to the new sleek device from MS, sure to have b-e-a-utiful video quality.
*Sigh* No fun. This forum is weak. I attempted to infiltrate it, and though succesful, was too bored to continue. Not only is Zune more fun, even the forums are more colored, personal, warm, gestured, and so much more. Zuneboards is my home, this place is an abyss of white.
Post Script: You can't even have an Avatar....what...in...the world. And for you sheltered iPod users, an Avatar is a picture that you can use to express yourself.
Macs have always been Apple's most profitable division. Not iPods. Obviously, their other divisions make them plenty of money. But the biggest yield comes from Mac sales.
what percentage of thier income is from ipods, or macs or iphones?
perferably with something a tad more than just a claim with no substantiation
Post Script: You can't even have an Avatar....what...in...the world. And for you sheltered iPod users, an Avatar is a picture that you can use to express yourself.
If you want to express yourself why not try posting something of substance. An 40x40 pic that you stole off the internet isn't exactly expressing yourself. It's just goofy little a facade that shallow people think makes them cool.
If you want to express yourself why not try posting something of substance. An 40x40 pic that you stole off the internet isn't exactly expressing yourself. It's just goofy little a facade that shallow people think makes them cool.
Comments
But ANYTHING has the potential to be awesome. Or totally suck. At this point it's vaporware, and no info has been put forward to give the expectation that it would beat the iPhone in any way.
And "just have to wait for an app store (something MS does well with the Xbox) and the good stuff will just flow in" seems incredibly unrealistic.
Devs made tons of iPhone apps because the device was incredibly popular already. With a new device, it's a chicken and egg situation - people won't buy it for apps until the apps appear, but the devs won't create the apps until there's significant enough market penetration. Ironically, it's the same situation mac apps have faced over the years.
MS certainly could in theory make a device as good as the iPhone or better (assuming iPhone hasn't improved past that point by then). But even if they do, the lack of apps puts it at a disadvantage to the ipod touch.
again, its all speculation, thats all you can do with a photo like this. but if it is real, a device that looks like this could easily open a lot of doors.
and again, im not saying that it will be "As good or better" than the iPhone, im simply saying that it could compete with it, and therefor would probably succeed, the phone market is very different from the MP3 player market, people are far more likely to get a non-apple phone than they are to get a non-apple MP3 player.
if they put it on networks that dont have the iPhone (and therefor its not even directly competing) then they would just have more opportunity to sell it, which is my point, it could still be madly successful without even being as good as an iPhone.
Edit: the app store would be the least of their worries, the devs already working with apple could easily port the apps to new devices (they already are with android phones) that along with MS making their own, and their game studios... a lot of these apps are very cheap to produce, which means even if there are "only" a few million of the handset sold, then devs still will be making a profit. MS would also have the advantage to see what is already on the market, and how well certain apps sell, so they could clone those instantly.
obviously its all speculation. obviously.
again, if it is a phone MS would have the ability to doe something none of the other phone manufacturers can right now, and that is to bring to the table everything that the iPhone is/has. HTC can do perfectly good hardware, however they dont have any infristructure for music.
it also has style, something people look for in a phone. HTC doesn't have that.
finally, most phones on the market right now are single point touch screens, if this is multipoint (using what MS already has with the MS surface) then this could turn out to be pretty good.
again, its all about potential, its only a single image that may not even be real. exciting in theory only, much like when video game maker like sony/nintendo/ms release a new console, for that first 6 months of sitting back and waiting, you basically just get little peaks at what it could have...
But all of that (and I'm not willing to concede that the touch table thing MS has shown has any bearing on handset software) would require MS to release a phone running a version of WinMob that isn't available to its OEM partners.
Which would be kind of a huge problem, especially if such a phone were successful.
Is it in Microsoft's best interests to kill off HTC's Windows Mobile business?
But all of that (and I'm not willing to concede that the touch table thing MS has shown has any bearing on handset software) would require MS to release a phone running a version of WinMob that isn't available to its OEM partners.
Which would be kind of a huge problem, especially if such a phone were successful.
Is it in Microsoft's best interests to kill off HTC's Windows Mobile business?
in the long run, if they had to kill of HTC's WinMo business (which they wouldnt have to do) it probably would be better to have a single device for a software, so the software is a perfect fit for the hardware. something that has been helping apple out a lot lately.
the surface interface/tech is scalable, maybe not in full (obviously it would not have the 3d imaging tech) but the screen is much like that of the iPhone, and the software is similar as well.
in the long run, if they had to kill of HTC's WinMo business (which they wouldnt have to do) it probably would be better to have a single device for a software, so the software is a perfect fit for the hardware. something that has been helping apple out a lot lately.
the surface interface/tech is scalable, maybe not in full (obviously it would not have the 3d imaging tech) but the screen is much like that of the iPhone, and the software is similar as well.
But isn't the whole selling point of Windows Mobile (according to Ballmer) that it runs on multiple devices and give Microsoft's customers "choice"?
They could do it, I guess, but it would be a huge sea change for their strategy.
As far as Surface goes, doesn't it seem like vast overkill to try and scale that down to a phone? There are easier ways of developing touch gestures for a handset, I would think.
But isn't the whole selling point of Windows Mobile (according to Ballmer) that it runs on multiple devices and give Microsoft's customers "choice"?
They could do it, I guess, but it would be a huge sea change for their strategy.
As far as Surface goes, doesn't it seem like vast overkill to try and scale that down to a phone? There are easier ways of developing touch gestures for a handset, I would think.
well thats what im talking about, taking what they have learned from surface, and implement it into a phone.
i would expect them (hypothetically) to do WinMo7 which will still be pretty suspect at best, then on top of WinMo as a platform, they would do a Zune exclusive version that is more for just that single device.
im simply saying that it could compete with it, and therefor would probably succeed, the phone market is very different from the MP3 player market, people are far more likely to get a non-apple phone than they are to get a non-apple MP3 player.
So "compete with it" is all that is necessary to probably succeed? So why haven't palm or blackberry been able to do that yet? Or MS already with all the windows mobile phones that are already shipping?
You're right, the smartphone market is very different. But due to the success of the app store, I'd argue that in this next generation it's even harder to compete with apple.
How exactly is MS going to get the 20 thousand apps that iPhone reached so fast, particularly starting from zero installed base?
if they put it on networks that dont have the iPhone (and therefor its not even directly competing)
Except that it sure looks like the iPhone has been compelling enough that people are willing to change networks for it. Sure looks like it is directly competing with all the phones on other networks.
Edit: the app store would be the least of their worries, the devs already working with apple could easily port the apps to new devices (they already are with android phones) that along with MS making their own, and their game studios... a lot of these apps are very cheap to produce, which means even if there are "only" a few million of the handset sold, then devs still will be making a profit. MS would also have the advantage to see what is already on the market, and how well certain apps sell, so they could clone those instantly.
I'm skeptical about "easily" and I'm skeptical that most devs will be motivated to go to the trouble of porting. After all, it's the same situation as macs and pcs, why bother with the marginal platform? Devs have already had the opportunity to do apps for windows mobile, I don't see why an iPhone knockoff would get them much more excited.
Zune HD, awesome idea! If the picture on engadget is viable, then I'm looking forward to the new sleek device from MS, sure to have b-e-a-utiful video quality.
sigh..
Post Script: You can't even have an Avatar....what...in...the world. And for you sheltered iPod users, an Avatar is a picture that you can use to express yourself.
Macs have always been Apple's most profitable division. Not iPods. Obviously, their other divisions make them plenty of money. But the biggest yield comes from Mac sales.
what percentage of thier income is from ipods, or macs or iphones?
perferably with something a tad more than just a claim with no substantiation
what percentage of thier income is from ipods, or macs or iphones?
Mac 44%
iPod 28%
perferably with something a tad more than just a claim with no substantiation
Apple 10 K 2009
Post Script: You can't even have an Avatar....what...in...the world. And for you sheltered iPod users, an Avatar is a picture that you can use to express yourself.
If you want to express yourself why not try posting something of substance. An 40x40 pic that you stole off the internet isn't exactly expressing yourself. It's just goofy little a facade that shallow people think makes them cool.
Anyone else here wish we could go back to the good old days?
You know, the days before all these external links brought us so many new and well-rounded individuals?
Yeah, I thought so.
+1
Having read this thread in full means that there goes 15 minutes of my life I'll never get back.
My own fault, but it was sort of bad car accident like.
what percentage of thier income is from ipods, or macs or iphones?
perferably with something a tad more than just a claim with no substantiation
If I make a "claim", it's usually fact or informed opinion.
And it looks like you already got your answer.
If you want to express yourself why not try posting something of substance. An 40x40 pic that you stole off the internet isn't exactly expressing yourself. It's just goofy little a facade that shallow people think makes them cool.
seriously, dont feed the trolls.