First off, I don't think the Zune is dead. It's a good product since their v2 firmware and it competes well within the non-iPod PMPs.
In order to "compete" you've got to compare the products on their own merits, not assuming that Microsoft is going to continue to shovel Office and Windows dollars into Zune development. That that business unit has lost billions of dollars since inception while Apple has earned billions of dollars at the same time shows how they compete, I think.
I'm waiting for techstud to somehow disparage the very apple products he claims to like.
Sorry for the wait- I had to eat lunch.
What do you mean? I am absolutely crazy about my iPod Touch and rate is as one of the best Apple products currently on the market - second only to the 17 inch matte MacBook Pro. I've always said -give everything the iPhone has without an AT&T phone and I'm in. I skipped the 1st gen and glad I waited.
And I'm proud that it's lived up to all my expectations and more; and is selling as I predicted 2 days ago.
It literally has driven Apple's quarter beyond expectations.
Viable perhaps until the game titles start to grow up.....
As the titles grow up the iPhone/Touch takes an advantage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ltcommander.data
Of course, hardware wise the iPhone/Touch and PSP aren't directly competing, but there would definitely be overlap. iPhone 3rd gen will just bring things ever closer technically.
They aren't, but I think there will be plenty of people who will want a cellphone and/or an iPod and think "I can save money and get a more power gaming platform by getting an iPhone/Touch." As I've stated before, I think that Sony and Nintendo dropped the ball by not using their expertise to make their handheld gaming devices decent PMPs, too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by psychodoughboy
Cute putting that Final Fantasy X (PS2 game) in the iPod Touch vs. DS image. The iPod Touch does not have the horsepower to run that game; nor does any other existing phone or handheld.
I have no idea how the <300MHz Emotion Engine used in the PS2 relates to the ARM CPU and GPU in the current Touch, but that CPU is a decade old and the next Touch will probably be able to push 720p video. If they can't play some PS2 games well now I don't think it will be too many HW revisions before they will be. But would Sony even allow their games to be ported to iPhone OS X and sold in the App Store. I don't think so, at least not a long time.
Yup...AT&T is a big barrier. Their service isn't bad here in WA but i'm locked into sprint until 2010 Q4. I may as well get a Touch and at least take advantage of the apps and then investigate the costs of migrating from Sprint to ATTerror.
Oh yeah will a iPod Touch be GPS enabled?
Get a Touch- it's unbelievable! I pick up free WiFi signals everwhere in NYC.
What do you mean? I am absolutely crazy about my iPod Touch and rate is as one of the best Apple products currently on the market - second only to the 17 inch matte MacBook Pro. I've always said -give everything the iPhone has without an AT&T phone and I'm in. I skipped the 1st gen and glad I waited.
And I'm proud that it's lived up to all my expectations and more; and is selling as I predicted 2 days ago.
It literally has driven Apple's quarter beyond expectations.
My favorite App- AirMouse.
For me, the iPod Touch is the only Apple product I will consider purchasing. A very nicely done piece of hardware. I really hope they do unlock bluetooth in 3.0. I think the iPod Touch has sold well to those who wanted the iPhone, but won't switch to AT&T. I for one am in that category. Unlock bluetooth, and you have a killer little machine given you can tether it to your existing cell phone... think of the possibilities!
I believe this is a slightly skewed comparison, given that the iPhone/iPod Touch and Nintendo DS are aimed at catering towards principally different market segments. The tone of this article suggests that the boon in Apple's sales are due to consumers being strictly interested in gaming. iPhone users buy the iPhone because it is a phone, first and foremost. I'm willing to wager that iPod Touch owners bought the device for its music playing abilities, not gaming (although the fact that you can game on it is a plus). Nintendo DS owners own one for the reason that it is a dedicated gaming machine. This article is comparing the sales of apples (no pun intended) to sales of oranges.
A more accurate reading would be for Apple to query those 1st quarter customers and ask them for what purpose did they purchase an iPod Touch. The numbers presented in this article are meaningless without knowing the customers' intent on using the device.
its not an unfair comparison. the new ds has features other than just gaming. taking pictures, recording ect, ect, one could make the argument that it is going the way the ipod and incorporating functions that are not solely based on gaming. it goes without mentioning that the ipod touch has a multitude of non gaming apps. calculator, internet, calendar ect, ect,
Yup...AT&T is a big barrier. Their service isn't bad here in WA but i'm locked into sprint until 2010 Q4. I may as well get a Touch and at least take advantage of the apps and then investigate the costs of migrating from Sprint to ATTerror.
Oh yeah will a iPod Touch be GPS enabled?
I'm pretty sure the next iPod Touch will have GPS and a camera.
These components would add a few dollars to the cost of the device but Apple would more than likely make it back on the increased sales of apps that use the GPS and camera.
Even AI is giving to much emphasis of the game APPs (as great as they are) but really it is the Touch itself. It is a major improvement over the 1st gen and has great word of mouth. From its improved screen to its proportions- it is amazing. Apple hit this one way out of the ballpark.
Name one......And Im talking groundbreaking, great graphics/sound.....like Super Monkey.
I seriously would love to purchase these types of games for my daughters for my Iphone.
I sold there old DS's....was thinking of the new DSI...but will wait for the new touches..hopefully with a camera built in. That would be sweet. That seems to be the feature they really want. For some reason....
For me, the iPod Touch is the only Apple product I will consider purchasing. A very nicely done piece of hardware. I really hope they do unlock bluetooth in 3.0. I think the iPod Touch has sold well to those who wanted the iPhone, but won't switch to AT&T. I for one am in that category. Unlock bluetooth, and you have a killer little machine given you can tether it to your existing cell phone... think of the possibilities!
If it wasn't for my Touch (w remote APP) I probably would have thrown my ATV out the window by now.
BTW- the AirMouse APP is like having a bluetooth mouse and trackpad (except over WiFI of course).
What apple does, that most companies do not do, they do not come out ahead of time and tell the market how they going to crush the competition and how their business model is better than everyone elses.
They just do it, do not talk about they put thing in place a head of time to lay the ground work for future product and test the waters to too how it should be done.
Think about this widgets, you do not hear much about them, but apple put this in place years before the iphone and the app store this was the model to set the whole concept of small app that can be used on a phone.
Another example is itune, the software for organizing your songs came first then came the Ipod, then a music store...
Look at a bunch of things apple is doing and think about how those ideas can be extended. The next thing it apple TV there are still testing those waters and learning, once the figure it out you will see them going after the set top box market next.
Apple has a long term roadmaps of a whole line of products and service and they realize whar needs to be there first and what enables what.
its not an unfair comparison. the new ds has features other than just gaming. taking pictures, recording ect, ect, one could make the argument that it is going the way the ipod and incorporating functions that are not solely based on gaming. it goes without mentioning that the ipod touch has a multitude of non gaming apps. calculator, internet, calendar ect, ect,
The problem is that they are late to the party with both rich PMP functions and with OTA digital gaming DLs with the new DSi. But Nintendo is, I believe, the largest company in Japan have weathered drops in sales and user interest many times before so I don't doubt that they will be able to enter the race and excel at some time in the future.
its not an unfair comparison. the new ds has features other than just gaming. taking pictures, recording ect, ect, one could make the argument that it is going the way the ipod and incorporating functions that are not solely based on gaming. it goes without mentioning that the ipod touch has a multitude of non gaming apps. calculator, internet, calendar ect, ect,
One problem that Nintendo has is price. This is still a game machine mostly aimed at those below 15. Actually, below 12.
Because of that, they have to be careful in adding features that parents might find objectionable. I read that the camera was one thing that Nintendo agonized over because of the possible "sexting" scandals going on right now.
In addition, some features cost too much to add to a low priced device right now. Possibly two years from now. If the iPhone/iTouch had little memory, as the DS has, their prices would be much lower as well. That large internal memory is one thing that makes these devices such good game machines. My daughter used to carry around this pouch with her little game cartridges for the DS. With her iPhone, they're all in the phone. Much better.
The DS is also much more cheaply built, as kids lose and break them.
So far, the markets are very different. But as I've seen iPhone usage in my daughter's HS school over the past two years explode, and I'm seeing more of them in younger kids hands now that the price is $199, I do expect the devices to take over more of Nintendo's territory.
I think that as the phone/PDA killed the PDA market, the phone/game machine will kill the handheld game machine market. It actually costs less to have the one unit, considering that almost everyone will end up with phone plans that include data and texting.
The iTouch is in an interesting position here in the US.
As we see here, it's possible that a lot of the sales are to people who don't want to change carriers. What will happen when those people can buy an unlocked iPhone and put it on Verizon's AT&T compatible network sometime in 2010? Or better yet, can buy one from Verizon?
Both AT&T and Apple are stating that they are happy with their current deal, but that could be just for show. Behind the scenes, there's likely much frantic negotiating going on.
"Apple has removed from it's collection of for sale iPod applications a program that simulates infanticide.
The 99 cents 'Baby Shaker' initially got past Apple's, apparently loose screening process and was downloaded by an unknown number of customers before the Mac maker pulled the "game."
The Sikalosoft brand application presents the user with a Gerberesque infant who immediately begins to wail. Shake the iPod and the baby eventually goes silent as a red 'X' adorns each eye, indicating the infant has died.
Sikalosoft pushed the game as a way for users annoyed by real-life bawling babies to virtually put an end to the noise -- permanently.
"Babies are everywhere you don't want them to be! They're always distracting you from preparing for that big presentation at work with their incessant crying. Before Baby Shaker there was nothing you could do about it," Sikalosoft's promotional materials said."
Cute putting that Final Fantasy X (PS2 game) in the iPod Touch vs. DS image. The iPod Touch does not have the horsepower to run that game; nor does any other existing phone or handheld.
I'm not sure you are right about that.
There are PS2 games that have been ported to the iPod touch that seem identical to me in terms of graphics and performance. I don't see why Final Fantasy X would be any different. In any case the new version (due out within a month or two), seems like it will be orders of magnitude faster and more capable, so the point would become moot very soon.
Name one......And Im talking groundbreaking, great graphics/sound.....like Super Monkey.
I seriously would love to purchase these types of games for my daughters for my Iphone.
I sold there old DS's....was thinking of the new DSI...but will wait for the new touches..hopefully with a camera built in. That would be sweet. That seems to be the feature they really want. For some reason....
Groundbreaking?
There are no groundbreaking games for computers, OR consoles either. Hasn't been for years. Monkeyball wasn't groundbreaking either, just a VERY good port.
If you like a few games, but don't like others, then whatever I mention will have you say that they don't matter. But that would be just to you. I happen to really like Crash Bandicoot. You may not. I get a kick out of Bugdom 2, you may not.
You can look through Macworld's game reviews. You will find some very good games there, some pretty innovative.
Comments
First off, I don't think the Zune is dead. It's a good product since their v2 firmware and it competes well within the non-iPod PMPs.
In order to "compete" you've got to compare the products on their own merits, not assuming that Microsoft is going to continue to shovel Office and Windows dollars into Zune development. That that business unit has lost billions of dollars since inception while Apple has earned billions of dollars at the same time shows how they compete, I think.
Viable perhaps until the game titles start to grow up.....
One can only take so much of Farting, Tic Tac Toe, X Ray, and the countless other crapware.....
SuperMonkey Ball was the start, but havent seen much after that.
Whats the problem?
You haven't looked. There's plenty.
I'm waiting for techstud to somehow disparage the very apple products he claims to like.
Sorry for the wait- I had to eat lunch.
What do you mean? I am absolutely crazy about my iPod Touch and rate is as one of the best Apple products currently on the market - second only to the 17 inch matte MacBook Pro. I've always said -give everything the iPhone has without an AT&T phone and I'm in. I skipped the 1st gen and glad I waited.
And I'm proud that it's lived up to all my expectations and more; and is selling as I predicted 2 days ago.
It literally has driven Apple's quarter beyond expectations.
Viable perhaps until the game titles start to grow up.....
As the titles grow up the iPhone/Touch takes an advantage.
Of course, hardware wise the iPhone/Touch and PSP aren't directly competing, but there would definitely be overlap. iPhone 3rd gen will just bring things ever closer technically.
They aren't, but I think there will be plenty of people who will want a cellphone and/or an iPod and think "I can save money and get a more power gaming platform by getting an iPhone/Touch." As I've stated before, I think that Sony and Nintendo dropped the ball by not using their expertise to make their handheld gaming devices decent PMPs, too.
Cute putting that Final Fantasy X (PS2 game) in the iPod Touch vs. DS image. The iPod Touch does not have the horsepower to run that game; nor does any other existing phone or handheld.
I have no idea how the <300MHz Emotion Engine used in the PS2 relates to the ARM CPU and GPU in the current Touch, but that CPU is a decade old and the next Touch will probably be able to push 720p video. If they can't play some PS2 games well now I don't think it will be too many HW revisions before they will be. But would Sony even allow their games to be ported to iPhone OS X and sold in the App Store. I don't think so, at least not a long time.
Yup...AT&T is a big barrier. Their service isn't bad here in WA but i'm locked into sprint until 2010 Q4. I may as well get a Touch and at least take advantage of the apps and then investigate the costs of migrating from Sprint to AT Terror.
Oh yeah will a iPod Touch be GPS enabled?
Get a Touch- it's unbelievable! I pick up free WiFi signals everwhere in NYC.
Verizon user here.
Sorry for the wait- I had to eat lunch.
What do you mean? I am absolutely crazy about my iPod Touch and rate is as one of the best Apple products currently on the market - second only to the 17 inch matte MacBook Pro. I've always said -give everything the iPhone has without an AT&T phone and I'm in. I skipped the 1st gen and glad I waited.
And I'm proud that it's lived up to all my expectations and more; and is selling as I predicted 2 days ago.
It literally has driven Apple's quarter beyond expectations.
My favorite App- AirMouse.
For me, the iPod Touch is the only Apple product I will consider purchasing. A very nicely done piece of hardware. I really hope they do unlock bluetooth in 3.0. I think the iPod Touch has sold well to those who wanted the iPhone, but won't switch to AT&T. I for one am in that category. Unlock bluetooth, and you have a killer little machine given you can tether it to your existing cell phone... think of the possibilities!
I believe this is a slightly skewed comparison, given that the iPhone/iPod Touch and Nintendo DS are aimed at catering towards principally different market segments. The tone of this article suggests that the boon in Apple's sales are due to consumers being strictly interested in gaming. iPhone users buy the iPhone because it is a phone, first and foremost. I'm willing to wager that iPod Touch owners bought the device for its music playing abilities, not gaming (although the fact that you can game on it is a plus). Nintendo DS owners own one for the reason that it is a dedicated gaming machine. This article is comparing the sales of apples (no pun intended) to sales of oranges.
A more accurate reading would be for Apple to query those 1st quarter customers and ask them for what purpose did they purchase an iPod Touch. The numbers presented in this article are meaningless without knowing the customers' intent on using the device.
its not an unfair comparison. the new ds has features other than just gaming. taking pictures, recording ect, ect, one could make the argument that it is going the way the ipod and incorporating functions that are not solely based on gaming. it goes without mentioning that the ipod touch has a multitude of non gaming apps. calculator, internet, calendar ect, ect,
Yup...AT&T is a big barrier. Their service isn't bad here in WA but i'm locked into sprint until 2010 Q4. I may as well get a Touch and at least take advantage of the apps and then investigate the costs of migrating from Sprint to AT Terror.
Oh yeah will a iPod Touch be GPS enabled?
I'm pretty sure the next iPod Touch will have GPS and a camera.
These components would add a few dollars to the cost of the device but Apple would more than likely make it back on the increased sales of apps that use the GPS and camera.
to be fair, Nintendo has always focused on younger demographics.
I hate it when people poke fun at my corporate gameboy
You haven't looked. There's plenty.
Name one......And Im talking groundbreaking, great graphics/sound.....like Super Monkey.
I seriously would love to purchase these types of games for my daughters for my Iphone.
I sold there old DS's....was thinking of the new DSI...but will wait for the new touches..hopefully with a camera built in. That would be sweet. That seems to be the feature they really want. For some reason....
For me, the iPod Touch is the only Apple product I will consider purchasing. A very nicely done piece of hardware. I really hope they do unlock bluetooth in 3.0. I think the iPod Touch has sold well to those who wanted the iPhone, but won't switch to AT&T. I for one am in that category. Unlock bluetooth, and you have a killer little machine given you can tether it to your existing cell phone... think of the possibilities!
If it wasn't for my Touch (w remote APP) I probably would have thrown my ATV out the window by now.
BTW- the AirMouse APP is like having a bluetooth mouse and trackpad (except over WiFI of course).
They just do it, do not talk about they put thing in place a head of time to lay the ground work for future product and test the waters to too how it should be done.
Think about this widgets, you do not hear much about them, but apple put this in place years before the iphone and the app store this was the model to set the whole concept of small app that can be used on a phone.
Another example is itune, the software for organizing your songs came first then came the Ipod, then a music store...
Look at a bunch of things apple is doing and think about how those ideas can be extended. The next thing it apple TV there are still testing those waters and learning, once the figure it out you will see them going after the set top box market next.
Apple has a long term roadmaps of a whole line of products and service and they realize whar needs to be there first and what enables what.
its not an unfair comparison. the new ds has features other than just gaming. taking pictures, recording ect, ect, one could make the argument that it is going the way the ipod and incorporating functions that are not solely based on gaming. it goes without mentioning that the ipod touch has a multitude of non gaming apps. calculator, internet, calendar ect, ect,
The problem is that they are late to the party with both rich PMP functions and with OTA digital gaming DLs with the new DSi. But Nintendo is, I believe, the largest company in Japan have weathered drops in sales and user interest many times before so I don't doubt that they will be able to enter the race and excel at some time in the future.
Name one......
Zen Bound, Edge, Rolando, iVampire, to name four.
Fantastic graphics and sound.
its not an unfair comparison. the new ds has features other than just gaming. taking pictures, recording ect, ect, one could make the argument that it is going the way the ipod and incorporating functions that are not solely based on gaming. it goes without mentioning that the ipod touch has a multitude of non gaming apps. calculator, internet, calendar ect, ect,
One problem that Nintendo has is price. This is still a game machine mostly aimed at those below 15. Actually, below 12.
Because of that, they have to be careful in adding features that parents might find objectionable. I read that the camera was one thing that Nintendo agonized over because of the possible "sexting" scandals going on right now.
In addition, some features cost too much to add to a low priced device right now. Possibly two years from now. If the iPhone/iTouch had little memory, as the DS has, their prices would be much lower as well. That large internal memory is one thing that makes these devices such good game machines. My daughter used to carry around this pouch with her little game cartridges for the DS. With her iPhone, they're all in the phone. Much better.
The DS is also much more cheaply built, as kids lose and break them.
So far, the markets are very different. But as I've seen iPhone usage in my daughter's HS school over the past two years explode, and I'm seeing more of them in younger kids hands now that the price is $199, I do expect the devices to take over more of Nintendo's territory.
I think that as the phone/PDA killed the PDA market, the phone/game machine will kill the handheld game machine market. It actually costs less to have the one unit, considering that almost everyone will end up with phone plans that include data and texting.
The iTouch is in an interesting position here in the US.
As we see here, it's possible that a lot of the sales are to people who don't want to change carriers. What will happen when those people can buy an unlocked iPhone and put it on Verizon's AT&T compatible network sometime in 2010? Or better yet, can buy one from Verizon?
Both AT&T and Apple are stating that they are happy with their current deal, but that could be just for show. Behind the scenes, there's likely much frantic negotiating going on.
Another example is itune, the software for organizing your songs came first then came the Ipod, then a music store...
.
Sorry but iTunes is a derivative of SoundJam- not created by Apple but bought by Apple.
Same thing with CoverFlow. However, Apple has integrated all these things seamlessly.
"Apple has removed from it's collection of for sale iPod applications a program that simulates infanticide.
The 99 cents 'Baby Shaker' initially got past Apple's, apparently loose screening process and was downloaded by an unknown number of customers before the Mac maker pulled the "game."
The Sikalosoft brand application presents the user with a Gerberesque infant who immediately begins to wail. Shake the iPod and the baby eventually goes silent as a red 'X' adorns each eye, indicating the infant has died.
Sikalosoft pushed the game as a way for users annoyed by real-life bawling babies to virtually put an end to the noise -- permanently.
"Babies are everywhere you don't want them to be! They're always distracting you from preparing for that big presentation at work with their incessant crying. Before Baby Shaker there was nothing you could do about it," Sikalosoft's promotional materials said."
Cute putting that Final Fantasy X (PS2 game) in the iPod Touch vs. DS image. The iPod Touch does not have the horsepower to run that game; nor does any other existing phone or handheld.
I'm not sure you are right about that.
There are PS2 games that have been ported to the iPod touch that seem identical to me in terms of graphics and performance. I don't see why Final Fantasy X would be any different. In any case the new version (due out within a month or two), seems like it will be orders of magnitude faster and more capable, so the point would become moot very soon.
Name one......And Im talking groundbreaking, great graphics/sound.....like Super Monkey.
I seriously would love to purchase these types of games for my daughters for my Iphone.
I sold there old DS's....was thinking of the new DSI...but will wait for the new touches..hopefully with a camera built in. That would be sweet. That seems to be the feature they really want. For some reason....
Groundbreaking?
There are no groundbreaking games for computers, OR consoles either. Hasn't been for years. Monkeyball wasn't groundbreaking either, just a VERY good port.
If you like a few games, but don't like others, then whatever I mention will have you say that they don't matter. But that would be just to you. I happen to really like Crash Bandicoot. You may not. I get a kick out of Bugdom 2, you may not.
You can look through Macworld's game reviews. You will find some very good games there, some pretty innovative.
http://www.macworld.com/apps/index.html?cat=Games
I also enjoy using Oregon Trail, which my daughter and all of her iPhone toting friends have bought (as did my wife).
A recent game I bought is Let's Golf, which is great.
My daughter is a fan of the Metal Gear Solid games, so she bought MGST recently, and likes it.
There's a lot more like these, with many more coming out all the time.
If you're going to simply dismiss them, I can only think that's because you want to.