An HP over an Apple?1 You have to be kidding me. Like an OP states they don't ever even get to the dilemma this shopper ill come too when he tries to "cut video" on her shiny under powered laptop. Microsoft is pulling out all the phony stops with their own PC/vs. Mac commercials. But like anything else WINDOWS does they do not give you the whole story and in this case actually lie about how the PC stacks up against the even priced MBP. Slower processor, slower DDR2 memory, and its one huge downfall is that it runs WINDOWS!!! Windows is simply the worst operating system they is available at the moment. With a Mac this young lady "shopper" would've gotten a machine that was not only a faster machine overall but she would've been given the software, the BEST software there is to edit video, music, photos, etc.
STOP LYING IN YOUR ADS MICROSOFT!!! Balmer is an idiot if he thinks anyone is actually thinking this marketing strategy will work. If anything it tells you to buy a Mac for many reasons and on many fronts. Viva La iLife and iWork!!! Let's face it the lack of ANY viruses on a ac is reason itself to buy a Mac. Plus they are beautiful and distinct. AND like all us Apple fans, it just works. It just works!!!
Those are 12.7mm drives and they are twice the cost of the large tray loading. IF you go slot loading they cost more. If you shave 3mm off the thickness and size of components they cost more. If you think that 12.7mm Blu-ray drives that are made in large quantites from multiple OEMs are going to be as cheap as a 9.5mm Blu-ray burner that doesn't exist on the market and that Apple would have to fund to get manufactured then you are sadly mistaken.
No, the Levono T400 uses a 9.5mm drive. It's not slot load, but Macs don't need to be slot-load.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
BTW, The previous MB had all it's ports on one side and it has a FW400. To think that it's too thin when thicker ports exist and FW exists on MBPs that are just as thin proves that you are posting just to argue and really just trolling. I wish you luck with your future posts.
Wow, trolling? Really? The ports having to all be on one side and the hard drive being in the upper left corner is why there isn't room for Firewire. I assumed that the unibody Macbook's slimmer design played a role in all of that, but as I said perhaps it does not.
At any rate, the whole thing seems like a chicken and egg scenario to me. 9.5mm Blu-Ray drives are expensive because only one manufacturer seems to be using them (everyone else builds 1.5-2 inch thick "laptops"). If Apple were to use them in their MacBook Pro line the cost of the drive would decrease due to supply and demand (again, superdrives cost $1k when Apple started putting them in Powermacs). Regardless, there's absolutely no excuse for Blu-Ray not being available (if not standard) in their desktop series.
You don't get HD and 5.1 support unless you go Vegas Movie Studio 9 Platinum.
You can get Adobe Premiere Elements and Photoshop Elements for $99. Photoshop Elements is a much better editor than iPhoto and Premiere Elements rocks. You can edit HDV or AVCHD without converting to an Apple format and encode either back to AVCHD to write to a standard DVD or Blu-Ray. You can't do that with iMovie or FCE.
No, the Levono T400 uses a 9.5mm drive. It's not slot load, but Macs don't need to be slot-load.
You are correct. I am wrong. 9.5mm Blu-ray burners are available. They are all listed as being 0.4", or 10mm which is why I didn't see them. They are listed at over $1k on Google Shopping with some used ones on eBay for around $650. That isn't exactly an Apple solution there. Also, when was the last time Apple had tray loading drives in their consumer products, especially their laptops? Don't forget, when Apple released the MBP with a single layer burner and slower speeds when the previous model MBP had a double layer burner and faster speeds. They didn't change the case to accommodate the optical drive, they changed the optical drive to accommodate the case. This will be no different. Apple is not going to add a tray loader just to appease a few people who don't want to use a cheaper external solution.
Quote:
Regardless, there's absolutely no excuse for Blu-Ray not being available (if not standard) in their desktop series.
Sure there is. The basic answer is that they choose not to, but I suspect that it's a two front offensive. They are moving to push the weak tech that is optical media out of their notebooks. It takes up a lot of space, it's slow, it sues a lot of power, write errors are common, and it don't hold much data for the cost. The other reason is to combat Blu-ray movies with their "good enough" digital solution for watching movies on your computer, though they will eventually have to add HDCP.
PS: These drives seem very new. We know Apple needs time to test a product. Were these drives available when the Mac notebooks launched last year? I'm guessing they weren't as I looked for them then. Maybe on a slow week Apple will offer these at BTO, but you know people are going to compare the prices to the large tray loading drives and bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch. So, will Apple have to add the drives now that they are available and in what looks like sufficient quantities or will they power play to get rid of optical media altogether. I vote for the latter.
I heard she was the "film maker" ILM hired to come up with the concept for Jar Jar Binks. Unfortunately all she had to work with at the time, was a machine running Windows 98. I can't wait to see what's next now that she's running Vista!
From Best Buy (and we all know we can find better deals)
HP HDX 16: $1,149.99
Minuses: Screen size, DDR2.
Add: $110 for Sony Vegas/ACID for iLife like compatibility. Use Picassa and other free tools to replace iPhoto, iWeb. You can find free AV online too to protect yourself. AVG, Comodo, etc...
Total: $1260 (Add 150 for OS X if we wanted a hackintosh: $1410)
From Apple (and we all know that you can't find a better price that doesn't involve rebates)
MacBook Pro Basic: $2000
Pluses: Screen, DDR3, OS X.
Minus: $80 for iLife (to make comparable to Windows PCs with out that software)
Add: $30 for additional 2GB Ram upgrade. $90 for HDD upgrade to 500gb (assuming we do these upgrades ourselves)
Total: $2040
So yeah... I dunno. Remember, Macs and PCs use the exact same internals! Is your Apple really worth 700 dollars more? To me it isn't. $700 for a label and a sexy case. Keep in mind, I won't buy an HP either. If I were to buy a real laptop: Lenovo. Those are some durable machines!
Agreed. Macs win for fit and finish and slim design but in general I agree with you. Apple should simple lower their prices. Take $300 off and they are competitive again. People will pay a premium for OSX and for a quality machine - its just that the differential is too high right now, in my opinion.
I also agree that Windows 7 will offer more parity with OSX than we've seen for a while. Yes, we have heard the same story before but from many sources its evident that MSFT has gotten its house in order. I think its stupid to depend on your competition being pathetic.
So, will Apple have to add the drives now that they are available and in what looks like sufficient quantities or will they power play to get rid of optical media altogether. I vote for the latter.
Well that's a whole other conversation, but I do hope they're not that stupid. Unless of course Apple's going to make mobileme free and up the storage capacity to a terabyte, and pay for our $140/mo 50Mbps internet connections.
Actually, you can get good DDR3 RAM at newegg for about $60 now.
Quote:
you get a far superior machine
Not really.
Go to newegg. For $1299 you can get a 15.4" system with a higher screen resolution, 4GB of DDR3, 320GB 7200 RPM HDD, GeForce 9800M GS 1GB, and either a 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo or 2.53GHz Core 2 Duo depending on whether you want a blu-ray drive at that price.
The $1,999 MacBook Pro gets you 2GB of RAM, less HDD space on a slower drive, 1/4 the video memory on a significantly slower GPU thats only consumer grade (is supposed to be "Pro" after all) and at the low end of the mid-range consumer grade GPUs to top it off! You also don't get standard features like HDMI, card readers, and all of that good stuff. To connect to UniBody MacBook to an external display I have to have a mess of adapters and cables. Yet my PC only requires ONE HDMI cable.
Quote:
In two years' time, it will still be worth a lot and will be working allright. The HP, or whatever Sheila bought will be worth significantly less. And you think about that, money-boy.
Actually, if you look outside of the Apple apologist circles, Macs are dropping in value rapidly. On craigslist and ebay, you see Macs selling for about half of what they would sell for if sold to an Apple apologist.
PC owners are too intelligent for this sort of thing. They know the current $2,499 MacBook Pro only has about $900 worth of power. So no even somewhat intelligent PC owner is going to spend more than $450 on a 2 year old system with those specs.
Quote:
Aluminum housing
UniBody MacBook owner here. The "unibody" piece is strong, but the top portion housing the LCD and bottom cover are extremely weak, weaker than the plastic used on the HP I have thats similar to the ones purchased in these ads.
Quote:
great trackpad
The multi-touch gestures are a gimmick. Why would I use a trackpad over my Logitech MX Revolution mouse?
Quote:
excellent OS
Matter of opinion. I run Leopard, XP, and Vista. I've run Tiger in the past. Vista is better than all of them, and Windows 7 is even better.
Quote:
Kias in general are more than 50% cheaper than Mercedes Benz and BMW. They are both made of steel and plastic. I bet once you have the money the first thing you will do is buy a BMW or a Benz.
The difference is that BMW and Mercedes use higher quality components than Kia. They're also built to higher standards are all around, and are much safer and more "luxurious" to drive. They also have far more features than Kia.
Apple, on the other hand, uses the same Chinese manufacturers as HP, Sony, Acer, Lenovo and others. The only difference really, in build quality, is that Apple uses aluminum and others use various plastics. I can tell you from experience that the plastic consumer notebooks from HP are built better than Apple's aluminum and plastic systems. In fact, Apple's plastic systems are easily the worst built systems on the market. Apple's systems are light years behind HP, Dell, and Lenovo's business notebooks.
Macs also have far fewer features compared to PCs as well. You don't get blu-ray, HDMI, card readers, fingerprint readers, higher screen resolutions on mid-size notebooks, theres no dedicated GPU option for the smaller portable line. Apple's systems also tend to come with half the memory and have the HDD space of similarly priced or spec'ed systems. Apple uses lower quality panels (not the backlights) in their screens as well. Plus Apple only offers anti-glare screens on ONE model and they charge more PLUS the screen is lower spec'ed than the mirror (glossy) screen.
Your own argument kills itself. Apple's systems are far less featured than their PC counterparts, and they're built by the same Chinese manufacturers using the same internal components. Unlike BMW and Mercedes, which ARE built to higher standards and include far more features than their cheaper counterparts. Apple is the only company in the computer industry that currently charges more for less. Even Sony's systems are reasonably priced now.
You are a clown and a troll and you don't know what you are talking about. Windows 7 is Vista with a simplified interface but all the same underlying problem. Memory leaks, lousy multi-tasking, weird unexplained stalls and everything else that has become the hallmark of the cruft infested Windows desktop OS. Of course its being welcomed like manna from heaven mostly by teenage boys who are desperate to be rid of Vista on their game boxes but corporations are not impressed which is what counts. I looked at your lame web site. Yeah your some professional. VHS to DVD transfer and wedding videos. What a dope.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnairmedia
The Mac used to be unmatched for years... but Windows 7 is really going to give Apple a run for it's money. You Obviously have an extreme bias... the machine she picked up was really a decent machine and doesn't have the cost near to the Mac route (buying Final Cut Pro). I'm a filmmaker and have been using Macs for 8 years... but I've been very disappointed in the current direction of the company as of late. I wouldn't be so cocky about the superiority of macs... those days are gone.
Another troll. I guess you forgot to read the comments on the Asus on New Egg where one person after another complains about them being DOA out of the box.
You quote an internet price for the Asus but retail for the Mac. So what if the Mac is more expensive? It's worth it. Better quality, support and OS X. Interesting how so many of the insecure Windows trolls on this thread never utter the word Vista or think that Windows 7 is the second coming.
Your comments on Mac prices on eBay are total BS.
The HP stronger than the unibody Mac? I laughed at loud at that one. Not even worth saying more other than I don't think for a second you have a unibody Mac.
Multi-touch is a gimmick? Another LOL. You must use your "laptop" at a desk only.
HDMI? How many people use that? If I wanted it I would buy a $9 cable from Monoprice. One cable. I really don't need or want all those great PC features like buttons that don't work but light up real nice etc.
Your comments on Macs having fewer features and lesser hardware are just stupid but I lost interest after you said Vista is better than Leopard.
As has been said already macs do not use the same componenets as PC's. if you knew what you were talking about you would know that.
What an ass. if you can't afford a Mac just be happy you settled for Windows instead of taking out your frustrations trolling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mosx
Actually, you can get good DDR3 RAM at newegg for about $60 now.
Not really.
Go to newegg. For $1299 you can get a 15.4" system with a higher screen resolution, 4GB of DDR3, 320GB 7200 RPM HDD, GeForce 9800M GS 1GB, and either a 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo or 2.53GHz Core 2 Duo depending on whether you want a blu-ray drive at that price.
The $1,999 MacBook Pro gets you 2GB of RAM, less HDD space on a slower drive, 1/4 the video memory on a significantly slower GPU thats only consumer grade (is supposed to be "Pro" after all) and at the low end of the mid-range consumer grade GPUs to top it off! You also don't get standard features like HDMI, card readers, and all of that good stuff. To connect to UniBody MacBook to an external display I have to have a mess of adapters and cables. Yet my PC only requires ONE HDMI cable.
Actually, if you look outside of the Apple apologist circles, Macs are dropping in value rapidly. On craigslist and ebay, you see Macs selling for about half of what they would sell for if sold to an Apple apologist.
PC owners are too intelligent for this sort of thing. They know the current $2,499 MacBook Pro only has about $900 worth of power. So no even somewhat intelligent PC owner is going to spend more than $450 on a 2 year old system with those specs.
UniBody MacBook owner here. The "unibody" piece is strong, but the top portion housing the LCD and bottom cover are extremely weak, weaker than the plastic used on the HP I have thats similar to the ones purchased in these ads.
The multi-touch gestures are a gimmick. Why would I use a trackpad over my Logitech MX Revolution mouse?
Matter of opinion. I run Leopard, XP, and Vista. I've run Tiger in the past. Vista is better than all of them, and Windows 7 is even better.
The difference is that BMW and Mercedes use higher quality components than Kia. They're also built to higher standards are all around, and are much safer and more "luxurious" to drive. They also have far more features than Kia.
Apple, on the other hand, uses the same Chinese manufacturers as HP, Sony, Acer, Lenovo and others. The only difference really, in build quality, is that Apple uses aluminum and others use various plastics. I can tell you from experience that the plastic consumer notebooks from HP are built better than Apple's aluminum and plastic systems. In fact, Apple's plastic systems are easily the worst built systems on the market. Apple's systems are light years behind HP, Dell, and Lenovo's business notebooks.
Macs also have far fewer features compared to PCs as well. You don't get blu-ray, HDMI, card readers, fingerprint readers, higher screen resolutions on mid-size notebooks, theres no dedicated GPU option for the smaller portable line. Apple's systems also tend to come with half the memory and have the HDD space of similarly priced or spec'ed systems. Apple uses lower quality panels (not the backlights) in their screens as well. Plus Apple only offers anti-glare screens on ONE model and they charge more PLUS the screen is lower spec'ed than the mirror (glossy) screen.
Your own argument kills itself. Apple's systems are far less featured than their PC counterparts, and they're built by the same Chinese manufacturers using the same internal components. Unlike BMW and Mercedes, which ARE built to higher standards and include far more features than their cheaper counterparts. Apple is the only company in the computer industry that currently charges more for less. Even Sony's systems are reasonably priced now.
I would like cheaper everything but given that Apple just had its second biggest quarter ever, in the middle of a recession, and looking at their stock price, no debt etc. they really don't have a reason to change.
Windows 7 is not even close to OS X.
Quote:
Originally Posted by junkie
Agreed. Macs win for fit and finish and slim design but in general I agree with you. Apple should simple lower their prices. Take $300 off and they are competitive again. People will pay a premium for OSX and for a quality machine - its just that the differential is too high right now, in my opinion.
I also agree that Windows 7 will offer more parity with OSX than we've seen for a while. Yes, we have heard the same story before but from many sources its evident that MSFT has gotten its house in order. I think its stupid to depend on your competition being pathetic.
You all seem to be missing the point on Blu-ray. It has nothing to do with what is available. Jobs doesn't want to deal with the licensing issues as he has stated publicly multiple times. He also thinks most people will skip Blu-ray for on demand video. He has also stated that publicly. Lots of other people think the same thing. That seems a little far fetched to me but quality has lost the battle for video before over convenience. Blu-ray will not make a difference on lower res screens and it has not exactly taken off in the marketplace even after HD died.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
You are correct. I am wrong. 9.5mm Blu-ray burners are available. They are all listed as being 0.4", or 10mm which is why I didn't see them. They are listed at over $1k on Google Shopping with some used ones on eBay for around $650. That isn't exactly an Apple solution there. Also, when was the last time Apple had tray loading drives in their consumer products, especially their laptops? Don't forget, when Apple released the MBP with a single layer burner and slower speeds when the previous model MBP had a double layer burner and faster speeds. They didn't change the case to accommodate the optical drive, they changed the optical drive to accommodate the case. This will be no different. Apple is not going to add a tray loader just to appease a few people who don't want to use a cheaper external solution.
Sure there is. The basic answer is that they choose not to, but I suspect that it's a two front offensive. They are moving to push the weak tech that is optical media out of their notebooks. It takes up a lot of space, it's slow, it sues a lot of power, write errors are common, and it don't hold much data for the cost. The other reason is to combat Blu-ray movies with their "good enough" digital solution for watching movies on your computer, though they will eventually have to add HDCP.
PS: These drives seem very new. We know Apple needs time to test a product. Were these drives available when the Mac notebooks launched last year? I'm guessing they weren't as I looked for them then. Maybe on a slow week Apple will offer these at BTO, but you know people are going to compare the prices to the large tray loading drives and bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch. So, will Apple have to add the drives now that they are available and in what looks like sufficient quantities or will they power play to get rid of optical media altogether. I vote for the latter.
You have really low expectations and little computer experience if you think Vista works fine with 2 GB. Pinnacle Studio? Video editing for housewives with not nearly the features of iMovie much less FCE or FCP. Its not even thought of highly in the PC World.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133
Bullcrap.
Unless iMovie has reached the heights of Final Cut Pro... For Pinnacle Studio 12 Plus, you'll have to waste around $60 - 70; at least that is how much I have paid here in NZ (NZ$140).
Vista works fine with 2GB and I was editing my home videos on above mentioned software and aging AMD X2 platform without any problems.
Jobs calls Apple TV a hobby and I would say thats about right. The Mini makes far more sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud
I made a big mistake not buying a Mini instead of ATV. I hate that I can't delete files directly on ATV like you can on a mini. And I have to keep all my movies file on my Mac permanently because if I delete them - the ATV mimics them and they disappear there as well. What a frustrating device. It really is only good if your ionto renting movies only. Even Hulu today got free ABC TV.
I don't think either Apple or Microsoft's commercials are very effective. Microsoft has no idea who their base is which is why their ads are all over the place and why the first two ad campaigns were pulled after spending millions of dollars on them. Microsoft and Apple have very different attitudes on sales. Microsoft wants volume, Apple wants premium customers who value quality and user experience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogerman2000
I'll say it again like I did with the last PC commercial thread : These commercials are effective! Microsoft knows their base. Period, end of discussion. Isn't there anyone who works in the advertising field in here? You guys are missing the point. It's not wether the PC is better equipped than a mac. It's about sales. Come on!
Anyone who understands Windows internals will tell you the cleaning the registry makes no difference other than making people feel better. On the other hand defragging does. Windows is one of the few "modern" OS' that does not automatically defrag by putting files in the right place when they are used.
Quote:
Originally Posted by heavydevelopment
LOL and my Linux machine runs even faster with a smaller footprint. So?
Yes there are plenty of PC smarties out there. But you have to admit that over time, without maintenance, a Windows OS will degrade in performance to the point of painfulness. It is the nature of the beast. You have to clean the registry periodically--which there is software that you can buy (more $$$) to do it--otherwise it is a painstaking and potentially fatal operation. You also have to defrag the hard drive. You can schedule this to run at night, but if something happens while it's defragging (ie power goes out) you potentially could hose your hard drive. There is diskeeper software (which the ms tool that ships with windows is the 'lite' version) that preemptively defrags the system on the fly, but that's $ too ($30 for home to be exact). Of course the best remedy is to periodically 'wipe' the system and start over. How long does that take every 6 mos to a year?
For the record, I'm not so much a Mac Fanboi as I am a Windows Hater. Why? Windows could have been so, so, so much better, but MS decided to paint themselves into a corner following the architecture path they did. Vista is the grand result of following that path. It's 100% bloatware. Now MS is backtracking and figured out how to trim some of the fat off the Vista pig. With Windows 7 the pig may be skinnier and it may have some fine lipstick--but its still a pig.
I am quite familiar with HP's corporate support as I have purchased many millions of dollars in HP servers. That is not the same thing at all as their consumer support.
Duh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka
They're both really solid companies, both in terms of hardware and customer service.
I've dealt with HP's customer service many times regarding our Indigo at work (HP bought Indigo, and inherited all the pain that comes with them). The service has always been top notch.
You are mistaken. Apple boards are designed by Apple in conjunction with Intel. Apple used to design their boards in conjunction with IBM. Foxconn manufacture lots of things for lots of companies but just because the make boards for Apple and others doesn't mean they are the same boards. Is that really so hard to grasp? They do not use all the same chipsets as cheapo PC's. You just don't know what you are talking about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27
If I'm not mistaken, Apple has a factory over seas make their boards... the same company that makes PC laptop boards (my original MBP had a Foxconn board). The chipsets are the same, the graphics cards are the same (mind you, there are two in this particular model, though any PC maker could do the same thing) processors are the same. Apple uses the same Hard Drives as other folks, the same RAM, the same Realtek compatible audio cards. Its the same... what more do I need to prove? Open up an Apple, and open up a PC, and take a look at the manufacturers of the chips inside. Tons of similarities. The differences are the EFI, and the OS. That's it. They take parts from other vendors and put them in their boxes, just like other computer companies, and its the same components!
Any one else want to back me up here? iStink, usually you have something to say.
You all seem to be missing the point on Blu-ray. It has nothing to do with what is available. Jobs doesn't want to deal with the licensing issues as he has stated publicly multiple times.
To say that it has nothing to do with the high component cost is a fat fetched. To say that the simple answer that was given after the "bag of hurt" statement is the only reason for Apple's reluctance is also far fetched. The fact is that the component wasn't available not to long ago for Apple's thin notebooks and it is still very expensive. It also affects Apple's digital DL maneuver. Licensing is an issue, but to say the other two is just bad form. They gave the answer that best points to it being someone else's fault and people bought it. Rarely are things in life so simple as to only having one reason.
Anyone who understands Windows internals will tell you the cleaning the registry makes no difference other than making people feel better.
That is not true in the least bit. You can shave a lot of startup time off many a system and keep the processes and RAM use low by cleaning out unneeded apps from HKEY_*\\SOFTWARE\\Microsoft\\Windows\\CurrentVersi on\\Run*. Who really needs Adobe and Quicktime running in the background at startup?
Comments
STOP LYING IN YOUR ADS MICROSOFT!!! Balmer is an idiot if he thinks anyone is actually thinking this marketing strategy will work. If anything it tells you to buy a Mac for many reasons and on many fronts. Viva La iLife and iWork!!! Let's face it the lack of ANY viruses on a ac is reason itself to buy a Mac. Plus they are beautiful and distinct. AND like all us Apple fans, it just works. It just works!!!
Those are 12.7mm drives and they are twice the cost of the large tray loading. IF you go slot loading they cost more. If you shave 3mm off the thickness and size of components they cost more. If you think that 12.7mm Blu-ray drives that are made in large quantites from multiple OEMs are going to be as cheap as a 9.5mm Blu-ray burner that doesn't exist on the market and that Apple would have to fund to get manufactured then you are sadly mistaken.
No, the Levono T400 uses a 9.5mm drive. It's not slot load, but Macs don't need to be slot-load.
BTW, The previous MB had all it's ports on one side and it has a FW400. To think that it's too thin when thicker ports exist and FW exists on MBPs that are just as thin proves that you are posting just to argue and really just trolling. I wish you luck with your future posts.
Wow, trolling? Really? The ports having to all be on one side and the hard drive being in the upper left corner is why there isn't room for Firewire. I assumed that the unibody Macbook's slimmer design played a role in all of that, but as I said perhaps it does not.
At any rate, the whole thing seems like a chicken and egg scenario to me. 9.5mm Blu-Ray drives are expensive because only one manufacturer seems to be using them (everyone else builds 1.5-2 inch thick "laptops"). If Apple were to use them in their MacBook Pro line the cost of the drive would decrease due to supply and demand (again, superdrives cost $1k when Apple started putting them in Powermacs). Regardless, there's absolutely no excuse for Blu-Ray not being available (if not standard) in their desktop series.
You don't get HD and 5.1 support unless you go Vegas Movie Studio 9 Platinum.
You can get Adobe Premiere Elements and Photoshop Elements for $99. Photoshop Elements is a much better editor than iPhoto and Premiere Elements rocks. You can edit HDV or AVCHD without converting to an Apple format and encode either back to AVCHD to write to a standard DVD or Blu-Ray. You can't do that with iMovie or FCE.
No, the Levono T400 uses a 9.5mm drive. It's not slot load, but Macs don't need to be slot-load.
You are correct. I am wrong. 9.5mm Blu-ray burners are available. They are all listed as being 0.4", or 10mm which is why I didn't see them. They are listed at over $1k on Google Shopping with some used ones on eBay for around $650. That isn't exactly an Apple solution there. Also, when was the last time Apple had tray loading drives in their consumer products, especially their laptops? Don't forget, when Apple released the MBP with a single layer burner and slower speeds when the previous model MBP had a double layer burner and faster speeds. They didn't change the case to accommodate the optical drive, they changed the optical drive to accommodate the case. This will be no different. Apple is not going to add a tray loader just to appease a few people who don't want to use a cheaper external solution.
Regardless, there's absolutely no excuse for Blu-Ray not being available (if not standard) in their desktop series.
Sure there is. The basic answer is that they choose not to, but I suspect that it's a two front offensive. They are moving to push the weak tech that is optical media out of their notebooks. It takes up a lot of space, it's slow, it sues a lot of power, write errors are common, and it don't hold much data for the cost. The other reason is to combat Blu-ray movies with their "good enough" digital solution for watching movies on your computer, though they will eventually have to add HDCP.
PS: These drives seem very new. We know Apple needs time to test a product. Were these drives available when the Mac notebooks launched last year? I'm guessing they weren't as I looked for them then. Maybe on a slow week Apple will offer these at BTO, but you know people are going to compare the prices to the large tray loading drives and bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch. So, will Apple have to add the drives now that they are available and in what looks like sufficient quantities or will they power play to get rid of optical media altogether. I vote for the latter.
Alright, lets do a price point comparison.
From Best Buy (and we all know we can find better deals)
HP HDX 16: $1,149.99
Minuses: Screen size, DDR2.
Add: $110 for Sony Vegas/ACID for iLife like compatibility. Use Picassa and other free tools to replace iPhoto, iWeb. You can find free AV online too to protect yourself. AVG, Comodo, etc...
Total: $1260 (Add 150 for OS X if we wanted a hackintosh: $1410)
From Apple (and we all know that you can't find a better price that doesn't involve rebates)
MacBook Pro Basic: $2000
Pluses: Screen, DDR3, OS X.
Minus: $80 for iLife (to make comparable to Windows PCs with out that software)
Add: $30 for additional 2GB Ram upgrade. $90 for HDD upgrade to 500gb (assuming we do these upgrades ourselves)
Total: $2040
So yeah... I dunno. Remember, Macs and PCs use the exact same internals! Is your Apple really worth 700 dollars more? To me it isn't. $700 for a label and a sexy case. Keep in mind, I won't buy an HP either. If I were to buy a real laptop: Lenovo. Those are some durable machines!
Agreed. Macs win for fit and finish and slim design but in general I agree with you. Apple should simple lower their prices. Take $300 off and they are competitive again. People will pay a premium for OSX and for a quality machine - its just that the differential is too high right now, in my opinion.
I also agree that Windows 7 will offer more parity with OSX than we've seen for a while. Yes, we have heard the same story before but from many sources its evident that MSFT has gotten its house in order. I think its stupid to depend on your competition being pathetic.
So, will Apple have to add the drives now that they are available and in what looks like sufficient quantities or will they power play to get rid of optical media altogether. I vote for the latter.
Well that's a whole other conversation, but I do hope they're not that stupid. Unless of course Apple's going to make mobileme free and up the storage capacity to a terabyte, and pay for our $140/mo 50Mbps internet connections.
The RAM upgrade on the MB Pro is $100
Actually, you can get good DDR3 RAM at newegg for about $60 now.
you get a far superior machine
Not really.
Go to newegg. For $1299 you can get a 15.4" system with a higher screen resolution, 4GB of DDR3, 320GB 7200 RPM HDD, GeForce 9800M GS 1GB, and either a 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo or 2.53GHz Core 2 Duo depending on whether you want a blu-ray drive at that price.
The $1,999 MacBook Pro gets you 2GB of RAM, less HDD space on a slower drive, 1/4 the video memory on a significantly slower GPU thats only consumer grade (is supposed to be "Pro" after all) and at the low end of the mid-range consumer grade GPUs to top it off! You also don't get standard features like HDMI, card readers, and all of that good stuff. To connect to UniBody MacBook to an external display I have to have a mess of adapters and cables. Yet my PC only requires ONE HDMI cable.
In two years' time, it will still be worth a lot and will be working allright. The HP, or whatever Sheila bought will be worth significantly less. And you think about that, money-boy.
Actually, if you look outside of the Apple apologist circles, Macs are dropping in value rapidly. On craigslist and ebay, you see Macs selling for about half of what they would sell for if sold to an Apple apologist.
PC owners are too intelligent for this sort of thing. They know the current $2,499 MacBook Pro only has about $900 worth of power. So no even somewhat intelligent PC owner is going to spend more than $450 on a 2 year old system with those specs.
Aluminum housing
UniBody MacBook owner here. The "unibody" piece is strong, but the top portion housing the LCD and bottom cover are extremely weak, weaker than the plastic used on the HP I have thats similar to the ones purchased in these ads.
great trackpad
The multi-touch gestures are a gimmick. Why would I use a trackpad over my Logitech MX Revolution mouse?
excellent OS
Matter of opinion. I run Leopard, XP, and Vista. I've run Tiger in the past. Vista is better than all of them, and Windows 7 is even better.
Kias in general are more than 50% cheaper than Mercedes Benz and BMW. They are both made of steel and plastic. I bet once you have the money the first thing you will do is buy a BMW or a Benz.
The difference is that BMW and Mercedes use higher quality components than Kia. They're also built to higher standards are all around, and are much safer and more "luxurious" to drive. They also have far more features than Kia.
Apple, on the other hand, uses the same Chinese manufacturers as HP, Sony, Acer, Lenovo and others. The only difference really, in build quality, is that Apple uses aluminum and others use various plastics. I can tell you from experience that the plastic consumer notebooks from HP are built better than Apple's aluminum and plastic systems. In fact, Apple's plastic systems are easily the worst built systems on the market. Apple's systems are light years behind HP, Dell, and Lenovo's business notebooks.
Macs also have far fewer features compared to PCs as well. You don't get blu-ray, HDMI, card readers, fingerprint readers, higher screen resolutions on mid-size notebooks, theres no dedicated GPU option for the smaller portable line. Apple's systems also tend to come with half the memory and have the HDD space of similarly priced or spec'ed systems. Apple uses lower quality panels (not the backlights) in their screens as well. Plus Apple only offers anti-glare screens on ONE model and they charge more PLUS the screen is lower spec'ed than the mirror (glossy) screen.
Your own argument kills itself. Apple's systems are far less featured than their PC counterparts, and they're built by the same Chinese manufacturers using the same internal components. Unlike BMW and Mercedes, which ARE built to higher standards and include far more features than their cheaper counterparts. Apple is the only company in the computer industry that currently charges more for less. Even Sony's systems are reasonably priced now.
The Mac used to be unmatched for years... but Windows 7 is really going to give Apple a run for it's money. You Obviously have an extreme bias... the machine she picked up was really a decent machine and doesn't have the cost near to the Mac route (buying Final Cut Pro). I'm a filmmaker and have been using Macs for 8 years... but I've been very disappointed in the current direction of the company as of late. I wouldn't be so cocky about the superiority of macs... those days are gone.
You quote an internet price for the Asus but retail for the Mac. So what if the Mac is more expensive? It's worth it. Better quality, support and OS X. Interesting how so many of the insecure Windows trolls on this thread never utter the word Vista or think that Windows 7 is the second coming.
Your comments on Mac prices on eBay are total BS.
The HP stronger than the unibody Mac? I laughed at loud at that one. Not even worth saying more other than I don't think for a second you have a unibody Mac.
Multi-touch is a gimmick? Another LOL. You must use your "laptop" at a desk only.
HDMI? How many people use that? If I wanted it I would buy a $9 cable from Monoprice. One cable. I really don't need or want all those great PC features like buttons that don't work but light up real nice etc.
Your comments on Macs having fewer features and lesser hardware are just stupid but I lost interest after you said Vista is better than Leopard.
As has been said already macs do not use the same componenets as PC's. if you knew what you were talking about you would know that.
What an ass. if you can't afford a Mac just be happy you settled for Windows instead of taking out your frustrations trolling.
Actually, you can get good DDR3 RAM at newegg for about $60 now.
Not really.
Go to newegg. For $1299 you can get a 15.4" system with a higher screen resolution, 4GB of DDR3, 320GB 7200 RPM HDD, GeForce 9800M GS 1GB, and either a 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo or 2.53GHz Core 2 Duo depending on whether you want a blu-ray drive at that price.
The $1,999 MacBook Pro gets you 2GB of RAM, less HDD space on a slower drive, 1/4 the video memory on a significantly slower GPU thats only consumer grade (is supposed to be "Pro" after all) and at the low end of the mid-range consumer grade GPUs to top it off! You also don't get standard features like HDMI, card readers, and all of that good stuff. To connect to UniBody MacBook to an external display I have to have a mess of adapters and cables. Yet my PC only requires ONE HDMI cable.
Actually, if you look outside of the Apple apologist circles, Macs are dropping in value rapidly. On craigslist and ebay, you see Macs selling for about half of what they would sell for if sold to an Apple apologist.
PC owners are too intelligent for this sort of thing. They know the current $2,499 MacBook Pro only has about $900 worth of power. So no even somewhat intelligent PC owner is going to spend more than $450 on a 2 year old system with those specs.
UniBody MacBook owner here. The "unibody" piece is strong, but the top portion housing the LCD and bottom cover are extremely weak, weaker than the plastic used on the HP I have thats similar to the ones purchased in these ads.
The multi-touch gestures are a gimmick. Why would I use a trackpad over my Logitech MX Revolution mouse?
Matter of opinion. I run Leopard, XP, and Vista. I've run Tiger in the past. Vista is better than all of them, and Windows 7 is even better.
The difference is that BMW and Mercedes use higher quality components than Kia. They're also built to higher standards are all around, and are much safer and more "luxurious" to drive. They also have far more features than Kia.
Apple, on the other hand, uses the same Chinese manufacturers as HP, Sony, Acer, Lenovo and others. The only difference really, in build quality, is that Apple uses aluminum and others use various plastics. I can tell you from experience that the plastic consumer notebooks from HP are built better than Apple's aluminum and plastic systems. In fact, Apple's plastic systems are easily the worst built systems on the market. Apple's systems are light years behind HP, Dell, and Lenovo's business notebooks.
Macs also have far fewer features compared to PCs as well. You don't get blu-ray, HDMI, card readers, fingerprint readers, higher screen resolutions on mid-size notebooks, theres no dedicated GPU option for the smaller portable line. Apple's systems also tend to come with half the memory and have the HDD space of similarly priced or spec'ed systems. Apple uses lower quality panels (not the backlights) in their screens as well. Plus Apple only offers anti-glare screens on ONE model and they charge more PLUS the screen is lower spec'ed than the mirror (glossy) screen.
Your own argument kills itself. Apple's systems are far less featured than their PC counterparts, and they're built by the same Chinese manufacturers using the same internal components. Unlike BMW and Mercedes, which ARE built to higher standards and include far more features than their cheaper counterparts. Apple is the only company in the computer industry that currently charges more for less. Even Sony's systems are reasonably priced now.
Windows 7 is not even close to OS X.
Agreed. Macs win for fit and finish and slim design but in general I agree with you. Apple should simple lower their prices. Take $300 off and they are competitive again. People will pay a premium for OSX and for a quality machine - its just that the differential is too high right now, in my opinion.
I also agree that Windows 7 will offer more parity with OSX than we've seen for a while. Yes, we have heard the same story before but from many sources its evident that MSFT has gotten its house in order. I think its stupid to depend on your competition being pathetic.
You are correct. I am wrong. 9.5mm Blu-ray burners are available. They are all listed as being 0.4", or 10mm which is why I didn't see them. They are listed at over $1k on Google Shopping with some used ones on eBay for around $650. That isn't exactly an Apple solution there. Also, when was the last time Apple had tray loading drives in their consumer products, especially their laptops? Don't forget, when Apple released the MBP with a single layer burner and slower speeds when the previous model MBP had a double layer burner and faster speeds. They didn't change the case to accommodate the optical drive, they changed the optical drive to accommodate the case. This will be no different. Apple is not going to add a tray loader just to appease a few people who don't want to use a cheaper external solution.
Sure there is. The basic answer is that they choose not to, but I suspect that it's a two front offensive. They are moving to push the weak tech that is optical media out of their notebooks. It takes up a lot of space, it's slow, it sues a lot of power, write errors are common, and it don't hold much data for the cost. The other reason is to combat Blu-ray movies with their "good enough" digital solution for watching movies on your computer, though they will eventually have to add HDCP.
PS: These drives seem very new. We know Apple needs time to test a product. Were these drives available when the Mac notebooks launched last year? I'm guessing they weren't as I looked for them then. Maybe on a slow week Apple will offer these at BTO, but you know people are going to compare the prices to the large tray loading drives and bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch. So, will Apple have to add the drives now that they are available and in what looks like sufficient quantities or will they power play to get rid of optical media altogether. I vote for the latter.
Bullcrap.
Unless iMovie has reached the heights of Final Cut Pro... For Pinnacle Studio 12 Plus, you'll have to waste around $60 - 70; at least that is how much I have paid here in NZ (NZ$140).
Vista works fine with 2GB and I was editing my home videos on above mentioned software and aging AMD X2 platform without any problems.
I made a big mistake not buying a Mini instead of ATV. I hate that I can't delete files directly on ATV like you can on a mini. And I have to keep all my movies file on my Mac permanently because if I delete them - the ATV mimics them and they disappear there as well. What a frustrating device. It really is only good if your ionto renting movies only. Even Hulu today got free ABC TV.
I'll say it again like I did with the last PC commercial thread : These commercials are effective! Microsoft knows their base. Period, end of discussion. Isn't there anyone who works in the advertising field in here? You guys are missing the point. It's not wether the PC is better equipped than a mac. It's about sales. Come on!
LOL and my Linux machine runs even faster with a smaller footprint. So?
Yes there are plenty of PC smarties out there. But you have to admit that over time, without maintenance, a Windows OS will degrade in performance to the point of painfulness. It is the nature of the beast. You have to clean the registry periodically--which there is software that you can buy (more $$$) to do it--otherwise it is a painstaking and potentially fatal operation. You also have to defrag the hard drive. You can schedule this to run at night, but if something happens while it's defragging (ie power goes out) you potentially could hose your hard drive. There is diskeeper software (which the ms tool that ships with windows is the 'lite' version) that preemptively defrags the system on the fly, but that's $ too ($30 for home to be exact). Of course the best remedy is to periodically 'wipe' the system and start over. How long does that take every 6 mos to a year?
For the record, I'm not so much a Mac Fanboi as I am a Windows Hater. Why? Windows could have been so, so, so much better, but MS decided to paint themselves into a corner following the architecture path they did. Vista is the grand result of following that path. It's 100% bloatware. Now MS is backtracking and figured out how to trim some of the fat off the Vista pig. With Windows 7 the pig may be skinnier and it may have some fine lipstick--but its still a pig.
Duh.
They're both really solid companies, both in terms of hardware and customer service.
I've dealt with HP's customer service many times regarding our Indigo at work (HP bought Indigo, and inherited all the pain that comes with them). The service has always been top notch.
If I'm not mistaken, Apple has a factory over seas make their boards... the same company that makes PC laptop boards (my original MBP had a Foxconn board). The chipsets are the same, the graphics cards are the same (mind you, there are two in this particular model, though any PC maker could do the same thing) processors are the same. Apple uses the same Hard Drives as other folks, the same RAM, the same Realtek compatible audio cards. Its the same... what more do I need to prove? Open up an Apple, and open up a PC, and take a look at the manufacturers of the chips inside. Tons of similarities. The differences are the EFI, and the OS. That's it. They take parts from other vendors and put them in their boxes, just like other computer companies, and its the same components!
Any one else want to back me up here? iStink, usually you have something to say.
You all seem to be missing the point on Blu-ray. It has nothing to do with what is available. Jobs doesn't want to deal with the licensing issues as he has stated publicly multiple times.
To say that it has nothing to do with the high component cost is a fat fetched. To say that the simple answer that was given after the "bag of hurt" statement is the only reason for Apple's reluctance is also far fetched. The fact is that the component wasn't available not to long ago for Apple's thin notebooks and it is still very expensive. It also affects Apple's digital DL maneuver. Licensing is an issue, but to say the other two is just bad form. They gave the answer that best points to it being someone else's fault and people bought it. Rarely are things in life so simple as to only having one reason.
Anyone who understands Windows internals will tell you the cleaning the registry makes no difference other than making people feel better.
That is not true in the least bit. You can shave a lot of startup time off many a system and keep the processes and RAM use low by cleaning out unneeded apps from HKEY_*\\SOFTWARE\\Microsoft\\Windows\\CurrentVersi on\\Run*. Who really needs Adobe and Quicktime running in the background at startup?