Another troll. I guess you forgot to read the comments on the Asus on New Egg where one person after another complains about them being DOA out of the box.
Hey, it happens. Don't forget that Asus manufactured the iBooks.
Apple also swapped out 2 of my plastic MacBooks due to build quality failures before switching me to the unibody MacBook.
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You quote an internet price for the Asus but retail for the Mac. So what if the Mac is more expensive? It's worth it.
Apple controls the prices of Macs. You're extremely unlikely to find a current generation Mac being sold for more than $50 less than MSRP.
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Better quality, support and OS X.
Better quality? Yeah, thats why the plastic MacBooks were known for build quality failures. The previous generation MBPs were known for denting, scratching, and warping due to heat.
Better support? Hmm. If something goes wrong with my Mac at this very moment I'm typing this, I can't call Apple. AppleCare is closed! I have to wait until Monday to set up a shipment. But before they do that, since I'm passed the 90 day support period, I have to provide a credit card which they'll auto-charge $60 and then refund if my problem is determined to be hardware.
OS X? Thats a down point for me. Leopard is not as good as Windows.
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Interesting how so many of the insecure Windows trolls on this thread never utter the word Vista or think that Windows 7 is the second coming.
Interesting how you missed the part of my post where I said I like Vista over Leopard and Tiger.
Oh and about 10x as many people are using Vista as there are Mac users total
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The HP stronger than the unibody Mac? I laughed at loud at that one. Not even worth saying more other than I don't think for a second you have a unibody Mac.
Would you like a picture? How about a scan of the receipt?
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Multi-touch is a gimmick? Another LOL. You must use your "laptop" at a desk only.
I hate touch pads. All of them. Multi-touch is a gimmick. Ooooh I can zoom in and out in Preview and flip pictures in iPhoto. I don't use Safari and I alt-tab/command-tab through windows because its faster than Expose, so its basically useless to me. Oh and Windows setup of zooming in and out of pictures in the preview app is better. Use the scroll wheel/bar/whatever to zoom in and out. Much faster than pinching or unpinching and doesn't require multiple attempts to get what you want.
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HDMI? How many people use that? If I wanted it I would buy a $9 cable from Monoprice. One cable. I really don't need or want all those great PC features like buttons that don't work but light up real nice etc
Actually, you'd have to buy the mini DisplayPort to HDMI adapter and then the HDMI cable. So you'd still need 2 cables. Plus the mini DisplayPort on Macs isn't capable of passing audio, so you'd still need an audio cable. On top of that, if you're running blu-ray (not possible in OS X but is in Windows), since you're stuck with optical audio, you can't pass the higher quality higher resolution formats, like Dolby TrueHD, DTS Master HD, or 8 channel uncompressed LPCM.
And who uses HDMI? Everyone. Starting in 2006, HDMI started to become a standard. By the end of 2007, it was difficult to find a notebook without HDMI out. Now its near impossible unless you look at Netbooks.
Every respectable LCD display out there has had HDMI for several years now. GPU manufacturers have been dropping DVI to HDMI adapters in boxes for just as long, plus many GPUs ship with HDMI as standard, as well as the ability to pass the higher resolution audio formats and 8 channel uncompressed LPCM.
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Your comments on Macs having fewer features and lesser hardware are just stupid but I lost interest after you said Vista is better than Leopard.
Because you know what I said is true. Show me a Mac with HDMI, card readers built-in, quad-core CPUs in notebooks, better than low mid-range GPUs, blu-ray, etc.
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As has been said already macs do not use the same componenets as PC's. if you knew what you were talking about you would know that.
They don't? Hmm. My UniBody MacBook has an LG screen, LG optical drive, Intel processor, nvidia chipset and GPU, some "Apple" branded RAM that is usually Samsung RAM rebranded, and a Hitachi HDD. My friend's MacBook Pro has an Intel processor, LG screen, LG optical drive, Intel chipset, nvidia GPU, Samsung RAM, you get the idea. My HP has an LG optical drive, LG screen, Intel processor, Intel chipset, nvidia GPU, Hitachi HDD, you get the idea The Dell Studio XPS 13 ships with an Intel processor, nvidia chipset + GPU, RAM from Samsung or other manufacturers, LG screens (or those from the same manufacturers Apple chooses), Hitachi, Seagate, etc HDDs, etc. You get the idea.
Apple's components are EXACTLY the same as PCs. The only difference is the casing, which is aluminum or a very low quality plastic.
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What an ass. if you can't afford a Mac just be happy you settled for Windows instead of taking out your frustrations trolling.
Again, would you like to see my receipt? How about the receipt on the system in a picture?
I could have gotten the MacBook Pro the day I made the original purchase. Even though I was a blind Apple fanboy at that point, I wasn't that stupid.
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You all seem to be missing the point on Blu-ray. It has nothing to do with what is available. Jobs doesn't want to deal with the licensing issues as he has stated publicly multiple times. He also thinks most people will skip Blu-ray for on demand video. He has also stated that publicly. Lots of other people think the same thing. That seems a little far fetched to me but quality has lost the battle for video before over convenience. Blu-ray will not make a difference on lower res screens and it has not exactly taken off in the marketplace even after HD died.
Are you serious? Do some googling. Despite the bad economy, Blu-ray's market share is DOUBLE what DVDs market share was at the same point in its life. When DVD was 2.5 years old, it had 4% market share. Blu-ray is currently at 8%. Blu-ray's market share doubled in 2008. The format IS taking off.
Blu-rays quality can't be seen on smaller screens? That too, is an outrageous statement that couldn't be any more wrong. To put it simply, even 720p screen is still pushing nearly 1,000,000 pixels. Standard definition DVD has a resolution 345,600. So even at 720p, blu-ray is pushing 2.6x the resolution of DVD. You also have to consider the fact that H.264 and VC-1 blu-ray discs are running at bitrate of anywhere from 20Mbps to 45Mbps. DVDs tend to run around 4.5Mbps encoded using MPEG-2. Even the old blu-ray MPEG-2 discs have a bitrate of around 20Mbps.
So, you're just flat out wrong in this case. Even on the small 720p screens, blu-ray will push that display to its full potential while DVD has to be upscaled over 2.5 times to reach native resolution.
And video on demand? Nah. Cable and satellite video services do reasonably well. But theres far too many problems with downloadable movies for them to ever challenge blu-ray.
One being is that the standard definition movies aren't even DVD quality. Sure they have the same resolution, but theres no hardware upscaling for the video codecs they use. So on high def displays, the video gets stretched and pixelized. Very few of them offer 5.1 surround sound as well. And those few that do have a lower bitrate Dolby Digital track than the DVD. Then theres the 720p "HD" version that Apple/iTunes and others try to pass off as HD. Those are all encoded at about 4.5Mbps. Excuse me? 4.5Mbps for 720p video? iTunes HD videos have so much compression artifacting that they don't even beat a good upscaled DVD. Sure they have more native pixels, but the compression artifacts are worse than cable. And, again, the issue of hardware upscaling. There is none. So on a 1080p display, you have to double the resolution in software which results in the image just being blown up and those compression artifacts being exaggerated. Not to mention the fact that iTunes HD movie purchases cost just as much as or sometimes more than the blu-ray disc.
And whats this about convenience? iTunes "HD" movies come in at around 4.5GB on average. I have a 10Mbps connection. Most people have less than half of that. If I want to download an iTunes HD movie, its going to take me more than an hour, assuming their servers feed me the movie at full speed. I can drive to the video store and get the blu-ray disc and be back before the movies even 10% downloaded. That leads me to the next problem with "On Demand" services like iTunes.
The DRM. If I buy an HD movie from iTunes, I can ONLY watch it on my computer or on an Apple TV. The SD version it comes with will play on my iPod and iPhone. If I want to play the HD movie on a display other than the built-in display on my MacBook, I need an entirely new cable set up to be HDCP compliant, since the MDP to HDMI cable didn't exist when I got my adapter and I didn't want to spend $50 on a MDP to DVI adapter plus DVI to HDMI setup.
WIth blu-ray and a PC, all it takes is one cable, no adapters and you're all set and compliant.
And what if I rent the SD version? It'll play on my Mac, PC, iPhone, or an Apple TV is I had one. Oh but guess what? It won't play on my 80GB 5.5G iPod that is newer than blu-ray and cost nearly twice as much as my Profile 2.0 blu-ray player did. Why won't it play movie rentals? Because that would be a "new feature" and Apple claims that SOX tells them they can't add "new features" without charging, which is complete and utter BS.
So again, the DRM. I have to have specific adapters and cables to play the HD movies, spend hours downloading, and spend MORE money renting or buying them than I would on blu-ray discs. On top of that, SD movies aren't guaranteed to play on all of my hardware, despite the fact that one of my pieces of hardware is not even 2 years old and cost more than my blu-ray player did.
Let's look at what else Apple did as far as DRM goes. Starting in 2007 with the iPhone, iPod classic, iPod nano 3G, and iPod touch, Apple locked out all 3rd party video accessories that don't include an Apple authentication chip. So on top of all of the other nonsense I mentioned, your movies aren't guaranteed to always be playable because Apple might decide to switch standards again and lock out everything you own forcing you to either give up everything or buy all new hardware again.
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You are mistaken. Apple boards are designed by Apple in conjunction with Intel.
No, they don't. Apple uses the same nvidia chipset that Dell, HP, and others use. It's also the same chipset found in many desktop motherboards and upcoming "Ion" based netbooks. Theres absolutely NOTHING special about a Mac motherboard.
Before the 9400M, Apple used Intel Santa Rosa and Napa chipsets, the same exact chipsets you'd find in every other Intel based notebook PC.
Before the 9400M, Apple used Intel Santa Rosa and Napa chipsets, the same exact chipsets you'd find in every other Intel based notebook PC.
Chipset ≠ Motherboard
Apple uses parts from other OEMs, like GPU and CPU and then assembles a custom board to fit their specific needs. Other PC vendors do this too, but not to the extreme that Apple does with all their PCs. Also, Apple never actually used Santa Rosa because they used their own wireless modules, not Intel's.
The difference is that BMW and Mercedes use higher quality components than Kia. They're also built to higher standards are all around, and are much safer and more "luxurious" to drive. They also have far more features than Kia.
Based on consumer reports and reviews, Macs are built to higher standards, have the better HW/SW integration, uses higher quality aluminum enclosure, and Apple provide the best customer support in the computer industry. This is not what I think, this is what many reviews said. Furthermore, MacBook and MacBook Pros are rated at number 1 by Consumers Report.
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Apple, on the other hand, uses the same Chinese manufacturers as HP, Sony, Acer, Lenovo and others. The only difference really, in build quality, is that Apple uses aluminum and others use various plastics. I can tell you from experience that the plastic consumer notebooks from HP are built better than Apple's aluminum and plastic systems. In fact, Apple's plastic systems are easily the worst built systems on the market. Apple's systems are light years behind HP, Dell, and Lenovo's business notebooks.
You are kidding right?! Plastic better that Aluminum?! Maybe they should start making airplanes out of plastic then.
Currently, Apple have only one plastic enclosure notebook (the $999 MB) and Mac Mini for desktop. Everything else is Aluminum.
Anyway, it is true that Apple uses same parts for some internal components. But you and me know that it is more about how these components are integrated with the OS and each other.
Who do you think build BMW and Benz electrical components, sound systems, and other "features" hardware? Just like computers, car makers contracts third party to manufacture many of their car parts.
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Macs also have far fewer features compared to PCs as well. You don't get blu-ray, HDMI, card readers, fingerprint readers, higher screen resolutions on mid-size notebooks, theres no dedicated GPU option for the smaller portable line. Apple's systems also tend to come with half the memory and have the HDD space of similarly priced or spec'ed systems. Apple uses lower quality panels (not the backlights) in their screens as well. Plus Apple only offers anti-glare screens on ONE model and they charge more PLUS the screen is lower spec'ed than the mirror (glossy) screen.
Throwing in features just to make the spec sheet longer is not alway good idea. Personally, I prefer Apple approach when it comes to the video ports (one port and you choose your adapter). I really don't want to have 3 video ports on my notebook just to use one them. I prefer to pay $200 for dedicated BR player instead of paying $400+ for a BRD.
On performance note, two years back PC World tested MBP and rated it as the fastest Windows Vista notebook!!
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Your own argument kills itself. Apple's systems are far less featured than their PC counterparts, and they're built by the same Chinese manufacturers using the same internal components. Unlike BMW and Mercedes, which ARE built to higher standards and include far more features than their cheaper counterparts. Apple is the only company in the computer industry that currently charges more for less. Even Sony's systems are reasonably priced now.
You are contradicting yourself by admitting that there are premium brands for cars but refuse to acknowledge that there are also premium brands in computers because they all use the same internal components, which is not 100% true. Apple is a premium computer brand. They do offer quality software, excellent HW integration, and excellent service. If this is not the definition of higher standard then I really would like you to tell us what is!
You are a clown and a troll and you don't know what you are talking about. Windows 7 is Vista with a simplified interface but all the same underlying problem. Memory leaks, lousy multi-tasking, weird unexplained stalls and everything else that has become the hallmark of the cruft infested Windows desktop OS. Of course its being welcomed like manna from heaven mostly by teenage boys who are desperate to be rid of Vista on their game boxes but corporations are not impressed which is what counts. I looked at your lame web site. Yeah your some professional. VHS to DVD transfer and wedding videos. What a dope.
Hey Snookie... ya beat me to it, and I agree with your comment completely, other than mcnairmedia(.com) being a troll. He seriously believes he's a "pro". I have to deal with these types of "pros" daily in the design biz.
Actually good design has nothing to do with the platform (tools) of choice... I also used a Win system in the late 90's. However, the Apple-aesthetic and design-style does seem to permeate into a designer's projects, and to be at a much higher quality-level than the majority of those that go the "Sheila" route.
I know that sounds snobbish... but... what can I say? The truth is all over the net. Look at a "Made for Mac" site, and then a PC site. Even when I was using a PC, I always kept up to date on the Mac side, just to be aware of pleasing design and future trends. OK. Adobe is multi-platform, and is pretty much on the ball design-wise too. But still.... Anybody with me on this?
PS: to mcnairmedia: please... do something about that Gawd-awful website for your own sake. Maybe then someone might request a demo-reel, and you'll have something to do other than making yourself look foolish on a Mac forum. I don't even want to imagine what that "pro" demo-DVD looks like. (where's the "shudder & gag" emoticon?)
You are mistaken. Apple boards are designed by Apple in conjunction with Intel. Apple used to design their boards in conjunction with IBM. Foxconn manufacture lots of things for lots of companies but just because the make boards for Apple and others doesn't mean they are the same boards. Is that really so hard to grasp? They do not use all the same chipsets as cheapo PC's. You just don't know what you are talking about.
just for clarity..are you saying that McDonalds could start serving michelin star food..?
I USED to be a very avid Apple fan. Now that Apple has got an ego too big for itself, I had to move away. They make designer computers, not high quality computers. Evident by my THREE MPBs which all died on their own, and the huge lines for Apple Genius bars (It was so very hard for me to get an appointment because so many people were coming back with broken computers. In the 1 hour I spent there waiting for my last replacement, I saw Apple replace 5 computers. Not good QC in my book) Having opened up an Apple laptop, and looking in, I saw the same chips as a regular PC.
Given, yes, there are companies out there that use refurb stuff... and Apple is not one of them. But I can still build a comparable computer cheaper than a Mac. It won't look a pretty, but it will function the same (if not better due to decent cooling!).
My Quad Core, 4gb, 500gb HD box cost me 500 bucks. Add a 20in screen for 200, add OS X for 150, iLife for 80, keyboard mouse for 30. You come out to $960. That is for a quad core. iMac dual core starts at 1100. And my quad core runs OS X perfectly, never had an issue with it! (I could subtract 100 bucks to bring back down to dual core, but for argument, no)
Was that extra time for a computer I wanted worth saving the 200 bucks, definitely. Am I using refurb equipment, definitely not. It is possible is my point.
I am curious... fan boys like you are so... what? Devout? By your signature, it seems as if Apple is a religion. I actually would like a response to this.
am i a fan boy ??? huh ?
well maybe yes
lol
i love apple
but i am not stupid
there machines do break or do fail
my hd went on my 13 in black MB
that exact day samsung came out w/ the 500 g drive that fits into MB 13IN
how cool is that
i now have a 500 g drive
yet some how i felt a twinge of guilt about doing it myself . and not getting a 120 g from apple
yet i do pine for a alum mac w/ there new grapic card
dunno maybe sometimes when you look at the fucked window world . and then you compare it to the apple world you become a zealot maybe
maybe i have become too over board
i have gottan so much good from apple like the ipod or itunes or iphoto ......
hey cam 27 i wish i could build a great gaming machine .hmmm
From Best Buy (and we all know we can find better deals)
HP HDX 16: $1,149.99
Minuses: Screen size, DDR2.
Add: $110 for Sony Vegas/ACID for iLife like compatibility. Use Picassa and other free tools to replace iPhoto, iWeb. You can find free AV online too to protect yourself. AVG, Comodo, etc...
Total: $1260 (Add 150 for OS X if we wanted a hackintosh: $1410)
From Apple (and we all know that you can't find a better price that doesn't involve rebates)
MacBook Pro Basic: $2000
Pluses: Screen, DDR3, OS X.
Minus: $80 for iLife (to make comparable to Windows PCs with out that software)
Add: $30 for additional 2GB Ram upgrade. $90 for HDD upgrade to 500gb (assuming we do these upgrades ourselves)
Total: $2040
So yeah... I dunno. Remember, Macs and PCs use the exact same internals! Is your Apple really worth 700 dollars more? To me it isn't. $700 for a label and a sexy case. Keep in mind, I won't buy an HP either. If I were to buy a real laptop: Lenovo. Those are some durable machines!
Why is it so difficult to understand that it is not about simplistic counting of this sort and quite frankly if it only costs me $700 extra never to have to use windows or a pc again then I call that a small price to pay. They may use the same internals but it is how they are put together that matters. Grow up there is more to buying a computer than the price.
The Mac used to be unmatched for years... but Windows 7 is really going to give Apple a run for it's money. You Obviously have an extreme bias... the machine she picked up was really a decent machine and doesn't have the cost near to the Mac route (buying Final Cut Pro). I'm a filmmaker and have been using Macs for 8 years... but I've been very disappointed in the current direction of the company as of late. I wouldn't be so cocky about the superiority of macs... those days are gone.
Problem is, every time a new version of Windows is launched, someone says finally, this is the version of Windows that's better than the Mac. I remember people saying this about Windows 3.1, Windows 95, Vista ... it loses credibility after a while.
Apple charges extra for one thing. Integrated hardware and software design. Any other benefits are a bonus (the user interface advantages have been whittled away not so much by MS catching up but by Apple not being as good as they used to be at human interface design). Buy a Windows box or install Linux, and you are rely much more than a Mac user on luck that all the parts will work together.
Problem is, every time a new version of Windows is launched, someone says finally, this is the version of Windows that's better than the Mac. I remember people saying this about Windows 3.1, Windows 95, Vista ... it loses credibility after a while.
Apple charges extra for one thing. Integrated hardware and software design. Any other benefits are a bonus (the user interface advantages have been whittled away not so much by MS catching up but by Apple not being as good as they used to be at human interface design). Buy a Windows box or install Linux, and you are rely much more than a Mac user on luck that all the parts will work together.
Yeah, see, if you just wait for the "next" version of Windows, Microsoft will finally get it right. What's that? You just finished waiting 6+ years for the chrome-plated turd they call "Vista?" And, they promised you the same things with Windows 98, Me, XP, etc., too? No, really, this time they mean it: just wait for the "next" version of Windows, and Microsoft will finally get it right. It'll be amazing, we're sure. Don't be so impatient. Sheesh, you act like your time is so damn important. Relax.
I seriously love macs and especially mac os x, but I am very pleased with these ads from MS.
They are 100% right hammering Apple on the pricing of Macs. These prices are unjustified in my opinion. I am willing to pay some premium on a Mac but there is a difference between premium and outright insane pricing. The worst of the lot is the Mac Pro. There is just no excuse for a single Quad processor desktop to cost so much money. It makes me angry.
If the Xeon is so pricey, Apple should offer a Mac Pro with a single iCore7 quad for a normal price.
I hate the iMac as it is not upgradable and I don't like it's casing. The MacBook / Pro are very nice but expensive as hell...
The more MS hammers Apple on the prices, the better it will be for us Mac users.
Dare I say "Go MS!"
The justification is quality development, the macs are worth the price. A computer may be cheap to build if you mass-produce it on a scale big enough. But the development cannot be stressed and "mass-produced" and still keep quality. MS is the perfect example of this.
ugh these ads just make me sick with how misinforming they are, i feel like there's a lot microsoft could legitimately say about apple's value that actually makes sense, but instead they choose to just make the stupidest points. i feel like i'd get a more authentic ad watching a ShamWoW commercial.
like the ad with the mom and the kid where the only thing the kid says about the mac is that it's "too small" and they want something bigger. um HELLO, it's a notebook computer you WANT it to be small!!
and not buying a computer for not having enough RAM is a rookie mistake. you can upgrade that yourself with no real computer knowledge for under $50.
**I assume that Motion is a suitable substitute for After Effects, I am not a video guy so I havn't any idea, and I didnt want to seem to be inflating the Apple price unnecessarily.
Better support? Hmm. If something goes wrong with my Mac at this very moment I'm typing this, I can't call Apple. AppleCare is closed! I have to wait until Monday to set up a shipment. But before they do that, since I'm passed the 90 day support period, I have to provide a credit card which they'll auto-charge $60 and then refund if my problem is determined to be hardware.
And as much flack as Dell gets, They do a much better job on extended warenties and service agreements than APPLE...With a $300 addon to most laptops, they cover everything, even accidental, for 3-4 years, they send a tech to you within 1 business day, so the PC never leaves your posession and you have less down time, there is no option at any price to have onsite service with Apple (don't) Care
And as much flack as Dell gets, They do a much better job on extended warenties and service agreements than APPLE...With a $300 addon to most laptops, they cover everything, even accidental, for 3-4 years, they send a tech to you within 1 business day, so the PC never leaves your posession and you have less down time, there is no option at any price to have onsite service with Apple (don't) Care
After many years of struggling with Windows systems I made the switch to my "over priced iMac" and I must say that I could NOT be more happy with my decision. I absolutely HATE the NTFS file system and they crappy way that installed programs seem to store their files in seemingly hundreds of directories all over the HDD. OS X may not be perfect but at least when I am tired of a program and delete it I feel confident that it's actually deleted and doesn't leave unnecessary files all over the place.
As for the hardware such as card readers and such, I don't need that crap. If want to transfer my pics from the camera to computer I simply plug it in via USB, it just works..... On a PC you could do that too after fighting with the OS to install drivers. Plug-n-pray, gotta love it. Good work M$
I'm anxiously waiting for Snow Leopard and I have no reservations about plunking down my hard earned cash for it. I expect Snow Leopard will be in the $130 price range which is less than half what M$ will ask for it's top version of Windows 7. One version of Snow Leopard for everyone gets you ALL features. I've lost count of the expected number of versions that M$ will have when "lucky #7" version of Windows is available. I think it's just plain tacky to suck people in with a cheap version of windows and then hold them hostage for more money to get features that you really want in the OS.
And as much flack as Dell gets, They do a much better job on extended warenties and service agreements than APPLE...With a $300 addon to most laptops, they cover everything, even accidental, for 3-4 years, they send a tech to you within 1 business day, so the PC never leaves your posession and you have less down time, there is no option at any price to have onsite service with Apple (don't) Care
What you are buying is an insurance policy which I think is administered by a 3rd party company, not Dell. It's like buying insurance on your cell phone. If you shop around you can find the same insurance for an Apple MacBook too
And as much flack as Dell gets, They do a much better job on extended warenties and service agreements than APPLE...With a $300 addon to most laptops, they cover everything, even accidental, for 3-4 years, they send a tech to you within 1 business day, so the PC never leaves your posession and you have less down time, there is no option at any price to have onsite service with Apple (don't) Care
Oh yeah and lets not forget about that incredible phone support you get from someone in india who can't speak english and calls himself "Robert" just so you can pronounce his name. I prefer to have someone on the line who speaks english, understands how to diagnose a problem WITHOUT reading from a script. Dell lost me many years ago with their foolish outsourced phone support.
I prefer to have someone on the line who speaks english, understands how to diagnose a problem WITHOUT reading from a script. Dell lost me many years ago with their foolish outsourced phone support.
Apple has Indian tech support, too, for their Macs. Though I am pretty sure that their iPhone support is in the US. I don't recall needing to call for their other products.
Apple has Indian tech support, too, for their Macs. Though I am pretty sure that their iPhone support is in the US. I don't recall needing to call for their other products.
Well the last few times I called them I got someone who speaks english with NO accent. Read this Business week article on the subject. You may get support from another country but it wont be India.... http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...5/b3989058.htm
Comments
Another troll. I guess you forgot to read the comments on the Asus on New Egg where one person after another complains about them being DOA out of the box.
Hey, it happens. Don't forget that Asus manufactured the iBooks.
Apple also swapped out 2 of my plastic MacBooks due to build quality failures before switching me to the unibody MacBook.
You quote an internet price for the Asus but retail for the Mac. So what if the Mac is more expensive? It's worth it.
Apple controls the prices of Macs. You're extremely unlikely to find a current generation Mac being sold for more than $50 less than MSRP.
Better quality, support and OS X.
Better quality? Yeah, thats why the plastic MacBooks were known for build quality failures. The previous generation MBPs were known for denting, scratching, and warping due to heat.
Better support? Hmm. If something goes wrong with my Mac at this very moment I'm typing this, I can't call Apple. AppleCare is closed! I have to wait until Monday to set up a shipment. But before they do that, since I'm passed the 90 day support period, I have to provide a credit card which they'll auto-charge $60 and then refund if my problem is determined to be hardware.
OS X? Thats a down point for me. Leopard is not as good as Windows.
Interesting how so many of the insecure Windows trolls on this thread never utter the word Vista or think that Windows 7 is the second coming.
Interesting how you missed the part of my post where I said I like Vista over Leopard and Tiger.
Oh and about 10x as many people are using Vista as there are Mac users total
The HP stronger than the unibody Mac? I laughed at loud at that one. Not even worth saying more other than I don't think for a second you have a unibody Mac.
Would you like a picture? How about a scan of the receipt?
Multi-touch is a gimmick? Another LOL. You must use your "laptop" at a desk only.
I hate touch pads. All of them. Multi-touch is a gimmick. Ooooh I can zoom in and out in Preview and flip pictures in iPhoto. I don't use Safari and I alt-tab/command-tab through windows because its faster than Expose, so its basically useless to me. Oh and Windows setup of zooming in and out of pictures in the preview app is better. Use the scroll wheel/bar/whatever to zoom in and out. Much faster than pinching or unpinching and doesn't require multiple attempts to get what you want.
HDMI? How many people use that? If I wanted it I would buy a $9 cable from Monoprice. One cable. I really don't need or want all those great PC features like buttons that don't work but light up real nice etc
Actually, you'd have to buy the mini DisplayPort to HDMI adapter and then the HDMI cable. So you'd still need 2 cables. Plus the mini DisplayPort on Macs isn't capable of passing audio, so you'd still need an audio cable. On top of that, if you're running blu-ray (not possible in OS X but is in Windows), since you're stuck with optical audio, you can't pass the higher quality higher resolution formats, like Dolby TrueHD, DTS Master HD, or 8 channel uncompressed LPCM.
And who uses HDMI? Everyone. Starting in 2006, HDMI started to become a standard. By the end of 2007, it was difficult to find a notebook without HDMI out. Now its near impossible unless you look at Netbooks.
Every respectable LCD display out there has had HDMI for several years now. GPU manufacturers have been dropping DVI to HDMI adapters in boxes for just as long, plus many GPUs ship with HDMI as standard, as well as the ability to pass the higher resolution audio formats and 8 channel uncompressed LPCM.
Your comments on Macs having fewer features and lesser hardware are just stupid but I lost interest after you said Vista is better than Leopard.
Because you know what I said is true. Show me a Mac with HDMI, card readers built-in, quad-core CPUs in notebooks, better than low mid-range GPUs, blu-ray, etc.
As has been said already macs do not use the same componenets as PC's. if you knew what you were talking about you would know that.
They don't? Hmm. My UniBody MacBook has an LG screen, LG optical drive, Intel processor, nvidia chipset and GPU, some "Apple" branded RAM that is usually Samsung RAM rebranded, and a Hitachi HDD. My friend's MacBook Pro has an Intel processor, LG screen, LG optical drive, Intel chipset, nvidia GPU, Samsung RAM, you get the idea. My HP has an LG optical drive, LG screen, Intel processor, Intel chipset, nvidia GPU, Hitachi HDD, you get the idea
Apple's components are EXACTLY the same as PCs. The only difference is the casing, which is aluminum or a very low quality plastic.
What an ass. if you can't afford a Mac just be happy you settled for Windows instead of taking out your frustrations trolling.
Again, would you like to see my receipt? How about the receipt on the system in a picture?
I could have gotten the MacBook Pro the day I made the original purchase. Even though I was a blind Apple fanboy at that point, I wasn't that stupid.
You all seem to be missing the point on Blu-ray. It has nothing to do with what is available. Jobs doesn't want to deal with the licensing issues as he has stated publicly multiple times. He also thinks most people will skip Blu-ray for on demand video. He has also stated that publicly. Lots of other people think the same thing. That seems a little far fetched to me but quality has lost the battle for video before over convenience. Blu-ray will not make a difference on lower res screens and it has not exactly taken off in the marketplace even after HD died.
Are you serious? Do some googling. Despite the bad economy, Blu-ray's market share is DOUBLE what DVDs market share was at the same point in its life. When DVD was 2.5 years old, it had 4% market share. Blu-ray is currently at 8%. Blu-ray's market share doubled in 2008. The format IS taking off.
Blu-rays quality can't be seen on smaller screens? That too, is an outrageous statement that couldn't be any more wrong. To put it simply, even 720p screen is still pushing nearly 1,000,000 pixels. Standard definition DVD has a resolution 345,600. So even at 720p, blu-ray is pushing 2.6x the resolution of DVD. You also have to consider the fact that H.264 and VC-1 blu-ray discs are running at bitrate of anywhere from 20Mbps to 45Mbps. DVDs tend to run around 4.5Mbps encoded using MPEG-2. Even the old blu-ray MPEG-2 discs have a bitrate of around 20Mbps.
So, you're just flat out wrong in this case. Even on the small 720p screens, blu-ray will push that display to its full potential while DVD has to be upscaled over 2.5 times to reach native resolution.
And video on demand? Nah. Cable and satellite video services do reasonably well. But theres far too many problems with downloadable movies for them to ever challenge blu-ray.
One being is that the standard definition movies aren't even DVD quality. Sure they have the same resolution, but theres no hardware upscaling for the video codecs they use. So on high def displays, the video gets stretched and pixelized. Very few of them offer 5.1 surround sound as well. And those few that do have a lower bitrate Dolby Digital track than the DVD. Then theres the 720p "HD" version that Apple/iTunes and others try to pass off as HD. Those are all encoded at about 4.5Mbps. Excuse me? 4.5Mbps for 720p video? iTunes HD videos have so much compression artifacting that they don't even beat a good upscaled DVD. Sure they have more native pixels, but the compression artifacts are worse than cable. And, again, the issue of hardware upscaling. There is none. So on a 1080p display, you have to double the resolution in software which results in the image just being blown up and those compression artifacts being exaggerated. Not to mention the fact that iTunes HD movie purchases cost just as much as or sometimes more than the blu-ray disc.
And whats this about convenience? iTunes "HD" movies come in at around 4.5GB on average. I have a 10Mbps connection. Most people have less than half of that. If I want to download an iTunes HD movie, its going to take me more than an hour, assuming their servers feed me the movie at full speed. I can drive to the video store and get the blu-ray disc and be back before the movies even 10% downloaded. That leads me to the next problem with "On Demand" services like iTunes.
The DRM. If I buy an HD movie from iTunes, I can ONLY watch it on my computer or on an Apple TV. The SD version it comes with will play on my iPod and iPhone. If I want to play the HD movie on a display other than the built-in display on my MacBook, I need an entirely new cable set up to be HDCP compliant, since the MDP to HDMI cable didn't exist when I got my adapter and I didn't want to spend $50 on a MDP to DVI adapter plus DVI to HDMI setup.
WIth blu-ray and a PC, all it takes is one cable, no adapters and you're all set and compliant.
And what if I rent the SD version? It'll play on my Mac, PC, iPhone, or an Apple TV is I had one. Oh but guess what? It won't play on my 80GB 5.5G iPod that is newer than blu-ray and cost nearly twice as much as my Profile 2.0 blu-ray player did. Why won't it play movie rentals? Because that would be a "new feature" and Apple claims that SOX tells them they can't add "new features" without charging, which is complete and utter BS.
So again, the DRM. I have to have specific adapters and cables to play the HD movies, spend hours downloading, and spend MORE money renting or buying them than I would on blu-ray discs. On top of that, SD movies aren't guaranteed to play on all of my hardware, despite the fact that one of my pieces of hardware is not even 2 years old and cost more than my blu-ray player did.
Let's look at what else Apple did as far as DRM goes. Starting in 2007 with the iPhone, iPod classic, iPod nano 3G, and iPod touch, Apple locked out all 3rd party video accessories that don't include an Apple authentication chip. So on top of all of the other nonsense I mentioned, your movies aren't guaranteed to always be playable because Apple might decide to switch standards again and lock out everything you own forcing you to either give up everything or buy all new hardware again.
You are mistaken. Apple boards are designed by Apple in conjunction with Intel.
No, they don't. Apple uses the same nvidia chipset that Dell, HP, and others use. It's also the same chipset found in many desktop motherboards and upcoming "Ion" based netbooks. Theres absolutely NOTHING special about a Mac motherboard.
Before the 9400M, Apple used Intel Santa Rosa and Napa chipsets, the same exact chipsets you'd find in every other Intel based notebook PC.
Before the 9400M, Apple used Intel Santa Rosa and Napa chipsets, the same exact chipsets you'd find in every other Intel based notebook PC.
Chipset ≠ Motherboard
Apple uses parts from other OEMs, like GPU and CPU and then assembles a custom board to fit their specific needs. Other PC vendors do this too, but not to the extreme that Apple does with all their PCs. Also, Apple never actually used Santa Rosa because they used their own wireless modules, not Intel's.
The difference is that BMW and Mercedes use higher quality components than Kia. They're also built to higher standards are all around, and are much safer and more "luxurious" to drive. They also have far more features than Kia.
Based on consumer reports and reviews, Macs are built to higher standards, have the better HW/SW integration, uses higher quality aluminum enclosure, and Apple provide the best customer support in the computer industry. This is not what I think, this is what many reviews said. Furthermore, MacBook and MacBook Pros are rated at number 1 by Consumers Report.
Apple, on the other hand, uses the same Chinese manufacturers as HP, Sony, Acer, Lenovo and others. The only difference really, in build quality, is that Apple uses aluminum and others use various plastics. I can tell you from experience that the plastic consumer notebooks from HP are built better than Apple's aluminum and plastic systems. In fact, Apple's plastic systems are easily the worst built systems on the market. Apple's systems are light years behind HP, Dell, and Lenovo's business notebooks.
You are kidding right?! Plastic better that Aluminum?! Maybe they should start making airplanes out of plastic then.
Currently, Apple have only one plastic enclosure notebook (the $999 MB) and Mac Mini for desktop. Everything else is Aluminum.
Anyway, it is true that Apple uses same parts for some internal components. But you and me know that it is more about how these components are integrated with the OS and each other.
Who do you think build BMW and Benz electrical components, sound systems, and other "features" hardware? Just like computers, car makers contracts third party to manufacture many of their car parts.
Macs also have far fewer features compared to PCs as well. You don't get blu-ray, HDMI, card readers, fingerprint readers, higher screen resolutions on mid-size notebooks, theres no dedicated GPU option for the smaller portable line. Apple's systems also tend to come with half the memory and have the HDD space of similarly priced or spec'ed systems. Apple uses lower quality panels (not the backlights) in their screens as well. Plus Apple only offers anti-glare screens on ONE model and they charge more PLUS the screen is lower spec'ed than the mirror (glossy) screen.
Throwing in features just to make the spec sheet longer is not alway good idea. Personally, I prefer Apple approach when it comes to the video ports (one port and you choose your adapter). I really don't want to have 3 video ports on my notebook just to use one them. I prefer to pay $200 for dedicated BR player instead of paying $400+ for a BRD.
On performance note, two years back PC World tested MBP and rated it as the fastest Windows Vista notebook!!
Your own argument kills itself. Apple's systems are far less featured than their PC counterparts, and they're built by the same Chinese manufacturers using the same internal components. Unlike BMW and Mercedes, which ARE built to higher standards and include far more features than their cheaper counterparts. Apple is the only company in the computer industry that currently charges more for less. Even Sony's systems are reasonably priced now.
You are contradicting yourself by admitting that there are premium brands for cars but refuse to acknowledge that there are also premium brands in computers because they all use the same internal components, which is not 100% true. Apple is a premium computer brand. They do offer quality software, excellent HW integration, and excellent service. If this is not the definition of higher standard then I really would like you to tell us what is!
You are a clown and a troll and you don't know what you are talking about. Windows 7 is Vista with a simplified interface but all the same underlying problem. Memory leaks, lousy multi-tasking, weird unexplained stalls and everything else that has become the hallmark of the cruft infested Windows desktop OS. Of course its being welcomed like manna from heaven mostly by teenage boys who are desperate to be rid of Vista on their game boxes but corporations are not impressed which is what counts. I looked at your lame web site. Yeah your some professional. VHS to DVD transfer and wedding videos. What a dope.
Hey Snookie... ya beat me to it, and I agree with your comment completely, other than mcnairmedia(.com) being a troll. He seriously believes he's a "pro". I have to deal with these types of "pros" daily in the design biz.
Actually good design has nothing to do with the platform (tools) of choice... I also used a Win system in the late 90's. However, the Apple-aesthetic and design-style does seem to permeate into a designer's projects, and to be at a much higher quality-level than the majority of those that go the "Sheila" route.
I know that sounds snobbish... but... what can I say? The truth is all over the net. Look at a "Made for Mac" site, and then a PC site. Even when I was using a PC, I always kept up to date on the Mac side, just to be aware of pleasing design and future trends. OK. Adobe is multi-platform, and is pretty much on the ball design-wise too. But still....
PS: to mcnairmedia: please... do something about that Gawd-awful website for your own sake.
You are mistaken. Apple boards are designed by Apple in conjunction with Intel. Apple used to design their boards in conjunction with IBM. Foxconn manufacture lots of things for lots of companies but just because the make boards for Apple and others doesn't mean they are the same boards. Is that really so hard to grasp?
just for clarity..are you saying that McDonalds could start serving michelin star food..?
I USED to be a very avid Apple fan. Now that Apple has got an ego too big for itself, I had to move away. They make designer computers, not high quality computers. Evident by my THREE MPBs which all died on their own, and the huge lines for Apple Genius bars (It was so very hard for me to get an appointment because so many people were coming back with broken computers. In the 1 hour I spent there waiting for my last replacement, I saw Apple replace 5 computers. Not good QC in my book) Having opened up an Apple laptop, and looking in, I saw the same chips as a regular PC.
Given, yes, there are companies out there that use refurb stuff... and Apple is not one of them. But I can still build a comparable computer cheaper than a Mac. It won't look a pretty, but it will function the same (if not better due to decent cooling!).
My Quad Core, 4gb, 500gb HD box cost me 500 bucks. Add a 20in screen for 200, add OS X for 150, iLife for 80, keyboard mouse for 30. You come out to $960. That is for a quad core. iMac dual core starts at 1100. And my quad core runs OS X perfectly, never had an issue with it! (I could subtract 100 bucks to bring back down to dual core, but for argument, no)
Was that extra time for a computer I wanted worth saving the 200 bucks, definitely. Am I using refurb equipment, definitely not. It is possible is my point.
I am curious... fan boys like you are so... what? Devout? By your signature, it seems as if Apple is a religion. I actually would like a response to this.
am i a fan boy ??? huh ?
well maybe yes
lol
i love apple
but i am not stupid
there machines do break or do fail
my hd went on my 13 in black MB
that exact day samsung came out w/ the 500 g drive that fits into MB 13IN
how cool is that
i now have a 500 g drive
yet some how i felt a twinge of guilt about doing it myself . and not getting a 120 g from apple
yet i do pine for a alum mac w/ there new grapic card
dunno maybe sometimes when you look at the fucked window world . and then you compare it to the apple world you become a zealot maybe
maybe i have become too over board
i have gottan so much good from apple like the ipod or itunes or iphoto ......
hey cam 27 i wish i could build a great gaming machine .hmmm
peace
Alright, lets do a price point comparison.
From Best Buy (and we all know we can find better deals)
HP HDX 16: $1,149.99
Minuses: Screen size, DDR2.
Add: $110 for Sony Vegas/ACID for iLife like compatibility. Use Picassa and other free tools to replace iPhoto, iWeb. You can find free AV online too to protect yourself. AVG, Comodo, etc...
Total: $1260 (Add 150 for OS X if we wanted a hackintosh: $1410)
From Apple (and we all know that you can't find a better price that doesn't involve rebates)
MacBook Pro Basic: $2000
Pluses: Screen, DDR3, OS X.
Minus: $80 for iLife (to make comparable to Windows PCs with out that software)
Add: $30 for additional 2GB Ram upgrade. $90 for HDD upgrade to 500gb (assuming we do these upgrades ourselves)
Total: $2040
So yeah... I dunno. Remember, Macs and PCs use the exact same internals! Is your Apple really worth 700 dollars more? To me it isn't. $700 for a label and a sexy case. Keep in mind, I won't buy an HP either. If I were to buy a real laptop: Lenovo. Those are some durable machines!
Why is it so difficult to understand that it is not about simplistic counting of this sort and quite frankly if it only costs me $700 extra never to have to use windows or a pc again then I call that a small price to pay. They may use the same internals but it is how they are put together that matters. Grow up there is more to buying a computer than the price.
The Mac used to be unmatched for years... but Windows 7 is really going to give Apple a run for it's money. You Obviously have an extreme bias... the machine she picked up was really a decent machine and doesn't have the cost near to the Mac route (buying Final Cut Pro). I'm a filmmaker and have been using Macs for 8 years... but I've been very disappointed in the current direction of the company as of late. I wouldn't be so cocky about the superiority of macs... those days are gone.
Problem is, every time a new version of Windows is launched, someone says finally, this is the version of Windows that's better than the Mac. I remember people saying this about Windows 3.1, Windows 95, Vista ... it loses credibility after a while.
Apple charges extra for one thing. Integrated hardware and software design. Any other benefits are a bonus (the user interface advantages have been whittled away not so much by MS catching up but by Apple not being as good as they used to be at human interface design). Buy a Windows box or install Linux, and you are rely much more than a Mac user on luck that all the parts will work together.
Problem is, every time a new version of Windows is launched, someone says finally, this is the version of Windows that's better than the Mac. I remember people saying this about Windows 3.1, Windows 95, Vista ... it loses credibility after a while.
Apple charges extra for one thing. Integrated hardware and software design. Any other benefits are a bonus (the user interface advantages have been whittled away not so much by MS catching up but by Apple not being as good as they used to be at human interface design). Buy a Windows box or install Linux, and you are rely much more than a Mac user on luck that all the parts will work together.
Yeah, see, if you just wait for the "next" version of Windows, Microsoft will finally get it right. What's that? You just finished waiting 6+ years for the chrome-plated turd they call "Vista?" And, they promised you the same things with Windows 98, Me, XP, etc., too? No, really, this time they mean it: just wait for the "next" version of Windows, and Microsoft will finally get it right. It'll be amazing, we're sure. Don't be so impatient. Sheesh, you act like your time is so damn important. Relax.
I seriously love macs and especially mac os x, but I am very pleased with these ads from MS.
They are 100% right hammering Apple on the pricing of Macs. These prices are unjustified in my opinion. I am willing to pay some premium on a Mac but there is a difference between premium and outright insane pricing. The worst of the lot is the Mac Pro. There is just no excuse for a single Quad processor desktop to cost so much money. It makes me angry.
If the Xeon is so pricey, Apple should offer a Mac Pro with a single iCore7 quad for a normal price.
I hate the iMac as it is not upgradable and I don't like it's casing. The MacBook / Pro are very nice but expensive as hell...
The more MS hammers Apple on the prices, the better it will be for us Mac users.
Dare I say "Go MS!"
The justification is quality development, the macs are worth the price. A computer may be cheap to build if you mass-produce it on a scale big enough. But the development cannot be stressed and "mass-produced" and still keep quality. MS is the perfect example of this.
like the ad with the mom and the kid where the only thing the kid says about the mac is that it's "too small" and they want something bigger. um HELLO, it's a notebook computer you WANT it to be small!!
and not buying a computer for not having enough RAM is a rookie mistake. you can upgrade that yourself with no real computer knowledge for under $50.
The commercial, which can be seen below, ends before Sheila can begin her search for a viable video editing application to cut her video.
Yeah! Good luck with your budget!
Wise decision Sheila!
HOW CAN U BE SO STUUUUUPID!!!!
Adobe CS4 Prod Prem retails for $1700 Mac or PC
Finalcut Studio+Photoshop CS3 Extended + Illustrator is $1300 +$700 + $600 = $2600**
**I assume that Motion is a suitable substitute for After Effects, I am not a video guy so I havn't any idea, and I didnt want to seem to be inflating the Apple price unnecessarily.
eat.
Better support? Hmm. If something goes wrong with my Mac at this very moment I'm typing this, I can't call Apple. AppleCare is closed! I have to wait until Monday to set up a shipment. But before they do that, since I'm passed the 90 day support period, I have to provide a credit card which they'll auto-charge $60 and then refund if my problem is determined to be hardware.
And as much flack as Dell gets, They do a much better job on extended warenties and service agreements than APPLE...With a $300 addon to most laptops, they cover everything, even accidental, for 3-4 years, they send a tech to you within 1 business day, so the PC never leaves your posession and you have less down time, there is no option at any price to have onsite service with Apple (don't) Care
And as much flack as Dell gets, They do a much better job on extended warenties and service agreements than APPLE...With a $300 addon to most laptops, they cover everything, even accidental, for 3-4 years, they send a tech to you within 1 business day, so the PC never leaves your posession and you have less down time, there is no option at any price to have onsite service with Apple (don't) Care
Who cares.
It's still a Dell . . . that runs Windows.
As for the hardware such as card readers and such, I don't need that crap. If want to transfer my pics from the camera to computer I simply plug it in via USB, it just works..... On a PC you could do that too after fighting with the OS to install drivers. Plug-n-pray, gotta love it. Good work M$
I'm anxiously waiting for Snow Leopard and I have no reservations about plunking down my hard earned cash for it. I expect Snow Leopard will be in the $130 price range which is less than half what M$ will ask for it's top version of Windows 7. One version of Snow Leopard for everyone gets you ALL features. I've lost count of the expected number of versions that M$ will have when "lucky #7" version of Windows is available. I think it's just plain tacky to suck people in with a cheap version of windows and then hold them hostage for more money to get features that you really want in the OS.
And as much flack as Dell gets, They do a much better job on extended warenties and service agreements than APPLE...With a $300 addon to most laptops, they cover everything, even accidental, for 3-4 years, they send a tech to you within 1 business day, so the PC never leaves your posession and you have less down time, there is no option at any price to have onsite service with Apple (don't) Care
What you are buying is an insurance policy which I think is administered by a 3rd party company, not Dell. It's like buying insurance on your cell phone. If you shop around you can find the same insurance for an Apple MacBook too
And as much flack as Dell gets, They do a much better job on extended warenties and service agreements than APPLE...With a $300 addon to most laptops, they cover everything, even accidental, for 3-4 years, they send a tech to you within 1 business day, so the PC never leaves your posession and you have less down time, there is no option at any price to have onsite service with Apple (don't) Care
Oh yeah and lets not forget about that incredible phone support you get from someone in india who can't speak english and calls himself "Robert" just so you can pronounce his name. I prefer to have someone on the line who speaks english, understands how to diagnose a problem WITHOUT reading from a script. Dell lost me many years ago with their foolish outsourced phone support.
I prefer to have someone on the line who speaks english, understands how to diagnose a problem WITHOUT reading from a script. Dell lost me many years ago with their foolish outsourced phone support.
Apple has Indian tech support, too, for their Macs. Though I am pretty sure that their iPhone support is in the US. I don't recall needing to call for their other products.
Apple has Indian tech support, too, for their Macs. Though I am pretty sure that their iPhone support is in the US. I don't recall needing to call for their other products.
Well the last few times I called them I got someone who speaks english with NO accent. Read this Business week article on the subject. You may get support from another country but it wont be India.... http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...5/b3989058.htm