Even in a small general partnership like mine, our accountant demands more from us every single tax year than Psystar seems to have at hand. I'm sort of surprised to hear them claim that no such documents exist or are required, and in same breath, refer to their venture capitalists. Everybody who'd put their money on the line without demanding a regular P&L at least, please raise your hands, because I have a very nice bridge I'd like to sell you.
That's because they DO exist, and Psystar does not want to reveal them. There is no way, and I mean NO EFFING WAY that if that company obtained one single dime from an actual VC Firm that those docs don't exist.
This will probably lead to the obstruction judgement Apple is seeking.
Those who think what Apple does is akin to Sony selling a DVD that you're only permitted to watch on a SONY DVD player are retarded. Seriously. Drain the water off your heads and go back to school.
Big corporations should not be allowed to dictate what we can do once we make a purchase.
I'm sure all the Apple fanboys here would be cool if Sony made you agree to a "license" that said if you purchase a DVD movie made by Sony Pictures Entertainment, then you have to play it only on a Sony DVD player. Same argument goes with music.
I've used Apple computers since the Apple IIGS and they've always been overpriced on the hardware side.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
Sony is one of the original group of companies who created DVDs - owning vital patents - and currently receives license fees for anyone who wants to make DVD and DVD related products (such as DVD players.)
If you make a DVD or DVD player, you must enter into a legal licensing permission agreement with Sony (and other companies) to do so. That agreement includes paying them.
Apple has no agreement with Pystar, nor did Pystar attempt to obtain one. Apple either owns (by their own invention) or licenses every single aspect of OS X.
I wonder how many posts we'd have in thread if they were on-topic. About five?
Just a thought.
Ok, on-topic
If Psystar is in possession of copies of OS X, which they are, then not being able to produce invoices for them, as a legitimate business, is a serious problem. that opens the door to all kinds of possible wrongdoing by Psystar, including piracy (can a self-stated small startup like Psystar even afford the costs of OS X across the board in the absence of any licensing agreement?)
Apparently, these invoices are among the documents they are unable to produce for some reason.
If "we lost them in the move" doesn't sound galactically disingenuous, I don't know what does.
1) If they are in any way touting that they are more efficient then I can make a joke.
2) You are required by laws to keep such documents. To think that the actually what little financial papers they had is highly suspect. I doubt this move will fly with the courts.
Even in a small general partnership like mine, our accountant demands more from us every single tax year than Psystar seems to have at hand. I'm sort of surprised to hear them claim that no such documents exist or are required, and in same breath, refer to their venture capitalists. Everybody who'd put their money on the line without demanding a regular P&L at least, please raise your hands, because I have a very nice bridge I'd like to sell you.
Exactly, Psystar reminds me of the story of the donkey in the lion's skin; the moment he opened his mouth to say something you knew for sure he was an ass.
Even by basic accounting practices Psystar's claims are insane. How on earth could you know how well your company was doing if you cannot document things like balance and profit-and-loss?? Better yet how in the world could you file a valid tax form, or the required tax paperwork some of that has to filed quarterly or even monthly?!?
To explain why they have refused to give Apple the documents it requested Psystar seems to basically be claiming it can't prove its own tax forms. What here they or their legal council thinking? Better yet were they thinking?!?
Apple will go to just about any length to prevent competition.
Truly sad. Apple has sunk to new lows.
Competition????
Apple makes Personal computers, Servers, Digital media players and mobile phones.
On a global scale Apple has Microsoft, HP, Dell, Lenovo, IBM, Sony etc etc etc as competition. Apple does not need some little company coming in and screwing with their business. Psystar are not competition, they are being used to change Apples business model. Just remember Apple, although having a recognised brand, holds less than 5% of the world PC market.
Big corporations should not be allowed to dictate what we can do once we make a purchase.
I'm sure all the Apple fanboys here would be cool if Sony made you agree to a "license" that said if you purchase a DVD movie made by Sony Pictures Entertainment, then you have to play it only on a Sony DVD player. Same argument goes with music.
I've used Apple computers since the Apple IIGS and they've always been overpriced on the hardware side.
erm..
What has this got to do with Psystar??
Mac OS is supplied on Mac computers and sold separately as an OS upgrade for existing Mac computers.
Psystar has been purchasing (ok, apparently purchasing, but they lost the receipts) Mac OS and installing it on their own hardware and selling it as their own product with Mac OS installed. Not only are they violating the EULA and the Mac OS license they are hacking the OS to install it on their own hardware.
Now, if you want to buy a copy of Mac OS and install it on your own PC thats fine, but as soon as you try to sell it.... thats the problem.
The financials Apple asked for and the ones Psystar claims they presented are different instruments. They should be able to produce any and all of them if there is a CFO or someone remotely resembling one who took so much as a community college accounting class. Aside from the fact that on the face of these reports, they are laying themselves open to all sorts of Sarbanes-Oxley violations, this company is apparently being run by 12 year olds.
According to FL state law, IRS Federal Law, ALL Companies are required to keep and hold ALL financial data for a period of NO LESS than 7 years. Any accounting software worth half a lick, hell even quickfail AKA QuickBooks can track and provide electronic documents... There running OS X right? Ever hear of print to PDF. Quickbooks Simple Start is free, yes it's Windows only but they make junkboxes with pirated versions of OS X what makes you think they are not running pirated versions from Microsoft.
IRS Red Alert, Flags up, and because this is court related, they have now broken 3 laws all of which are punishable by time, money, and time.
Good luck fighting the fruit, nobody makes it out fresh.
Psystar is just digging them self into deeper trouble, you can't just run a business and not keep any financial records, lol. Now is not just Apple that they got to worry about but am pretty sure the IRS is gonna jump in also. You can't just go and buy $100K in computer parts and not have any record or where you got the money from. If anyone from Psystar is listening, do yourself a favor STFU and just let your lawyers do the talking or you will regret every word you say.
Even in a small general partnership like mine, our accountant demands more from us every single tax year than Psystar seems to have at hand. I'm sort of surprised to hear them claim that no such documents exist or are required, and in same breath, refer to their venture capitalists. Everybody who'd put their money on the line without demanding a regular P&L at least, please raise your hands, because I have a very nice bridge I'd like to sell you.
I think you've hit the nail on the proverbial head here.
It's hard to square the "we're just little guys and don't keep those kind of records" stuff with the "we don't want to reveal the exact structure of the financing we received from venture capitalists" stuff.
Either they are a small company or they are funded by some scary venture capitalists. You can't have both. Unless their Aunty May gave them the money and they are just *calling* her a "venture capitalist" this makes no sense at all.
It has been alleged that Psystar may not be a real company, but some outfit financed by a third party interested in testing the law regarding Psystar's actions - i.e. selling Mac computers that aren't Apple Macs.
Well if they get their supplies (hardware, boxes of legitimately purchased OS X) shipped to them by their 'benefactor', of course there would be no financial records. Their prices are low enough to seriously doubt that it is not a loss operation if it were a real business. How could you pay $129 for the OS, and all the hardware and still sell the things at $599 (their currently cheapest model, with somewhat impressive specs for $470 worth of hardware). Maybe iSupply can do a tear down, and I doubt Psystar can build it for the tear down price as they are a 2 bit shop in the US. Unless they are getting Hardware care packages form Hell or some such place...http://forums.appleinsider.com/images/smilies/irked.gif
Big corporations should not be allowed to dictate what we can do once we make a purchase.
I'm sure all the Apple fanboys here would be cool if Sony made you agree to a "license" that said if you purchase a DVD movie made by Sony Pictures Entertainment, then you have to play it only on a Sony DVD player. Same argument goes with music.
I've used Apple computers since the Apple IIGS and they've always been overpriced on the hardware side.
You do realize that when you buy a Blu-Ray player, part of your cost is the licensing fee Sony charges manufacturers for use of it technology. So, in a manner of speaking, you are basically playing those movies only on Sony tech, as that's all they're licensed to work on.
Here's the thing, even in the most extreme case that you mention, as a consumer, you have the choice to either accept Sony's terms of licensing or deny them and see the company flourish or flounder as a result.
Big corporations have the exact same rights that people have, one of which is the right to protect their property (in this case, intellectual property). Were that not the case, there would be nothing stopping you from taking Kelly Clarkson's newest hit single, changing a few lyrics, and reselling it as an entirely different song.
The same paradigm exists in this instance: if you don't accept Apple's terms, then you have every right in the world to choose and use a Windows or a Linux based computer. However, iTunes had DRM for the longest time because of the music industry, not because of Apple.
You're looking at this from entirely the the wrong perspective.
Big corporations should not be allowed to dictate what we can do once we make a purchase.
I'm sure all the Apple fanboys here would be cool if Sony made you agree to a "license" that said if you purchase a DVD movie made by Sony Pictures Entertainment, then you have to play it only on a Sony DVD player. Same argument goes with music.
I've used Apple computers since the Apple IIGS and they've always been overpriced on the hardware side.
A more apt analogy would be that someone thinks they have the right to do some minor editing on the movie then turn around and sell copies of it on eBay as their movie.
Comments
Just a thought.
Even in a small general partnership like mine, our accountant demands more from us every single tax year than Psystar seems to have at hand. I'm sort of surprised to hear them claim that no such documents exist or are required, and in same breath, refer to their venture capitalists. Everybody who'd put their money on the line without demanding a regular P&L at least, please raise your hands, because I have a very nice bridge I'd like to sell you.
That's because they DO exist, and Psystar does not want to reveal them. There is no way, and I mean NO EFFING WAY that if that company obtained one single dime from an actual VC Firm that those docs don't exist.
This will probably lead to the obstruction judgement Apple is seeking.
Those who think what Apple does is akin to Sony selling a DVD that you're only permitted to watch on a SONY DVD player are retarded. Seriously. Drain the water off your heads and go back to school.
Big corporations should not be allowed to dictate what we can do once we make a purchase.
I'm sure all the Apple fanboys here would be cool if Sony made you agree to a "license" that said if you purchase a DVD movie made by Sony Pictures Entertainment, then you have to play it only on a Sony DVD player. Same argument goes with music.
I've used Apple computers since the Apple IIGS and they've always been overpriced on the hardware side.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
Sony is one of the original group of companies who created DVDs - owning vital patents - and currently receives license fees for anyone who wants to make DVD and DVD related products (such as DVD players.)
If you make a DVD or DVD player, you must enter into a legal licensing permission agreement with Sony (and other companies) to do so. That agreement includes paying them.
Apple has no agreement with Pystar, nor did Pystar attempt to obtain one. Apple either owns (by their own invention) or licenses every single aspect of OS X.
I wonder how many posts we'd have in thread if they were on-topic. About five?
Just a thought.
Ok, on-topic
If Psystar is in possession of copies of OS X, which they are, then not being able to produce invoices for them, as a legitimate business, is a serious problem. that opens the door to all kinds of possible wrongdoing by Psystar, including piracy (can a self-stated small startup like Psystar even afford the costs of OS X across the board in the absence of any licensing agreement?)
Apparently, these invoices are among the documents they are unable to produce for some reason.
If "we lost them in the move" doesn't sound galactically disingenuous, I don't know what does.
1) If they are in any way touting that they are more efficient then I can make a joke.
2) You are required by laws to keep such documents. To think that the actually what little financial papers they had is highly suspect. I doubt this move will fly with the courts.
Oh was that a joke? In that case
Like I said it's fishy.
If "we lost them in the move" doesn't sound galactically disingenuous, I don't know what does.
It's better than "my dog ate them."
Well, not much better.
Even in a small general partnership like mine, our accountant demands more from us every single tax year than Psystar seems to have at hand. I'm sort of surprised to hear them claim that no such documents exist or are required, and in same breath, refer to their venture capitalists. Everybody who'd put their money on the line without demanding a regular P&L at least, please raise your hands, because I have a very nice bridge I'd like to sell you.
Exactly, Psystar reminds me of the story of the donkey in the lion's skin; the moment he opened his mouth to say something you knew for sure he was an ass.
Even by basic accounting practices Psystar's claims are insane. How on earth could you know how well your company was doing if you cannot document things like balance and profit-and-loss?? Better yet how in the world could you file a valid tax form, or the required tax paperwork some of that has to filed quarterly or even monthly?!?
To explain why they have refused to give Apple the documents it requested Psystar seems to basically be claiming it can't prove its own tax forms. What here they or their legal council thinking? Better yet were they thinking?!?
Apple will go to just about any length to prevent competition.
Truly sad. Apple has sunk to new lows.
Competition????
Apple makes Personal computers, Servers, Digital media players and mobile phones.
On a global scale Apple has Microsoft, HP, Dell, Lenovo, IBM, Sony etc etc etc as competition. Apple does not need some little company coming in and screwing with their business. Psystar are not competition, they are being used to change Apples business model. Just remember Apple, although having a recognised brand, holds less than 5% of the world PC market.
Big corporations should not be allowed to dictate what we can do once we make a purchase.
I'm sure all the Apple fanboys here would be cool if Sony made you agree to a "license" that said if you purchase a DVD movie made by Sony Pictures Entertainment, then you have to play it only on a Sony DVD player. Same argument goes with music.
I've used Apple computers since the Apple IIGS and they've always been overpriced on the hardware side.
erm..
What has this got to do with Psystar??
Mac OS is supplied on Mac computers and sold separately as an OS upgrade for existing Mac computers.
Psystar has been purchasing (ok, apparently purchasing, but they lost the receipts) Mac OS and installing it on their own hardware and selling it as their own product with Mac OS installed. Not only are they violating the EULA and the Mac OS license they are hacking the OS to install it on their own hardware.
Now, if you want to buy a copy of Mac OS and install it on your own PC thats fine, but as soon as you try to sell it.... thats the problem.
IRS Red Alert, Flags up, and because this is court related, they have now broken 3 laws all of which are punishable by time, money, and time.
Good luck fighting the fruit, nobody makes it out fresh.
Even in a small general partnership like mine, our accountant demands more from us every single tax year than Psystar seems to have at hand. I'm sort of surprised to hear them claim that no such documents exist or are required, and in same breath, refer to their venture capitalists. Everybody who'd put their money on the line without demanding a regular P&L at least, please raise your hands, because I have a very nice bridge I'd like to sell you.
I think you've hit the nail on the proverbial head here.
It's hard to square the "we're just little guys and don't keep those kind of records" stuff with the "we don't want to reveal the exact structure of the financing we received from venture capitalists" stuff.
Either they are a small company or they are funded by some scary venture capitalists. You can't have both. Unless their Aunty May gave them the money and they are just *calling* her a "venture capitalist" this makes no sense at all.
Well if they get their supplies (hardware, boxes of legitimately purchased OS X) shipped to them by their 'benefactor', of course there would be no financial records. Their prices are low enough to seriously doubt that it is not a loss operation if it were a real business. How could you pay $129 for the OS, and all the hardware and still sell the things at $599 (their currently cheapest model, with somewhat impressive specs for $470 worth of hardware). Maybe iSupply can do a tear down, and I doubt Psystar can build it for the tear down price as they are a 2 bit shop in the US. Unless they are getting Hardware care packages form Hell or some such place...http://forums.appleinsider.com/images/smilies/irked.gif
My 2 cents
Apple will go to just about any length to prevent competition.
Truly sad. Apple has sunk to new lows.
Like fishing much?
Big corporations should not be allowed to dictate what we can do once we make a purchase.
I'm sure all the Apple fanboys here would be cool if Sony made you agree to a "license" that said if you purchase a DVD movie made by Sony Pictures Entertainment, then you have to play it only on a Sony DVD player. Same argument goes with music.
I've used Apple computers since the Apple IIGS and they've always been overpriced on the hardware side.
You do realize that when you buy a Blu-Ray player, part of your cost is the licensing fee Sony charges manufacturers for use of it technology. So, in a manner of speaking, you are basically playing those movies only on Sony tech, as that's all they're licensed to work on.
Here's the thing, even in the most extreme case that you mention, as a consumer, you have the choice to either accept Sony's terms of licensing or deny them and see the company flourish or flounder as a result.
Big corporations have the exact same rights that people have, one of which is the right to protect their property (in this case, intellectual property). Were that not the case, there would be nothing stopping you from taking Kelly Clarkson's newest hit single, changing a few lyrics, and reselling it as an entirely different song.
The same paradigm exists in this instance: if you don't accept Apple's terms, then you have every right in the world to choose and use a Windows or a Linux based computer. However, iTunes had DRM for the longest time because of the music industry, not because of Apple.
You're looking at this from entirely the the wrong perspective.
Looks like someone from the Osama, sorry Obama team is here.
Huh?!
Big corporations should not be allowed to dictate what we can do once we make a purchase.
I'm sure all the Apple fanboys here would be cool if Sony made you agree to a "license" that said if you purchase a DVD movie made by Sony Pictures Entertainment, then you have to play it only on a Sony DVD player. Same argument goes with music.
I've used Apple computers since the Apple IIGS and they've always been overpriced on the hardware side.
A more apt analogy would be that someone thinks they have the right to do some minor editing on the movie then turn around and sell copies of it on eBay as their movie.