Apple hires One Laptop Per Child security expert and noted critic

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  • Reply 21 of 58
    quadra 610quadra 610 Posts: 6,757member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post


    Have you been to india, it is a society base on the Cast System, simple put it is about the haves and have nots. I not sure how many of the 1.1B people there fit into the haves, however, based on my limited exposure the haves are a very small majority and they spend lots of time and money making sure the have nots stay that way.



    A very large % of their population have no idea what technology exist and they live right along side people who do. Those who have the knowledge, power and money do not allow those who are below them in the case system to raise above. As they always say knowledge and information is power and you can be assured they they make sure those below them will never gain this.



    There have been plenty of reforms to the Caste system over the course of the last 50 years, much of it started even well before then by the likes of Ram Mohan Roy and Vivekenanda. It isn't like it used to be. And don't forget that India is still a land where religion is strong, and technology doesn't necessarily play that much of a role in this area. Although perhaps the young Brahmin priests in Varanasi are walking around with notebooks and other devices, or have a need for them, I don't know.
  • Reply 22 of 58
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MyopiaRocks View Post


    Krstic is my new hero:

    - Slamming the pollyanna-ish notion of free open-source software ever being more than a niche market.



    That depends. There have already been some wins. Last I saw, Apache servers are used a third of the web servers for a decade now and the program included on all Macs too. Firefox is open source and still has a growing share last I've seen. Safari is based on an open source project. Mac platform is built using a lot of open source projects. As I recall, all or almost all Mac software is compiled using open source compiler system that's under the XCode IDE.



    Quote:

    - Slamming OLPC for having a [dumb] business model.

    - Slamming OLPC's founder (Negroponte) as not being primarily interested in education or the large-scale deployment of OLPC laptops.



    I don't know the specifics on the situation, it's hard to comment on it. I wonder if there's sour grapes though.



    Quote:

    And my favorite, the whole part where he talks about it being fun to mess with computers as a kid, but that as grownups people want computers that just work.



    The problem is that some of those that mess with computers as a kid are the ones that eventually make ones that help build towards something that just works. How kids learn technology is by "messing with" it. Giving them a sealed box to learn from might be found to be the equivalent to just giving someone a fish rather than teaching them how to fish. I think the chances of making quality technology workers are higher for those that were tinkerers as children. If a person didn't have an innate curiosity of how things work, I don't know how they can make things that do work when the time comes.
  • Reply 23 of 58
    istinkistink Posts: 250member
    Wow the optimism for the one laptop per child program in here is OVERWHELMING! lol



    Imagine living in the slums of India and you get a laptop. Imagine what kind of impact that has on a child's developing brain. Please stop the snobbish talk about how it's a failed program. Think of it this way, 15 years from now, you might be working with (or FOR) a person who's life was dramatically affected by the OLPC program. 250k might not seem like much for the population there, but it's a start, and a decent one.



    Then the comment about Microsoft and Intel making the Classmate so that they "ensure that third world children wouldn't be exposed to computers running anything other than an Intel CPU and a Microsoft operating system" seems pretty fucked up. I mean, if Microsoft and Intel wanted to make an affordable computer, you really think they'd build an AMD Linux system? Of course they'll use their own products.
  • Reply 24 of 58
    abster2coreabster2core Posts: 2,501member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post


    As they always say knowledge and information is power and you can be assured they they make sure those below them will never gain this.



    I prefer Eric Stoll's take in his book High-Tech Heretic on "Information is Power", i.e., "Information isn't power. Who's got the most information in your neighborhood? Librarians, and they are famous for having no power at all. Who has the most power in your community? Politicians, of course. And they're notorious for being in-informed."
  • Reply 25 of 58
    virgil-tb2virgil-tb2 Posts: 1,416member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iStink View Post


    Wow the optimism for the one laptop per child program in here is OVERWHELMING! lol



    Imagine living in the slums of India and you get a laptop. Imagine what kind of impact that has on a child's developing brain. Please stop the snobbish talk about how it's a failed program. Think of it this way, 15 years from now, you might be working with (or FOR) a person who's life was dramatically affected by the OLPC program. 250k might not seem like much for the population there, but it's a start, and a decent one.



    Then the comment about Microsoft and Intel making the Classmate so that they "ensure that third world children wouldn't be exposed to computers running anything other than an Intel CPU and a Microsoft operating system" seems pretty fucked up. I mean, if Microsoft and Intel wanted to make an affordable computer, you really think they'd build an AMD Linux system? Of course they'll use their own products.



    I think you're wrong on both counts.



    The mere presence of computers does not equate to learning, while it's a great thing that third world kids might get more access to computers, it's nothing to do with any "impact it would have on their developing brain," or any such pie in the sky stuff. It's a popular misconception in education circles that more computers equals more learning, but the people that have actually looked into it in any detail can tell you it's a false hope. Some kid in Africa would be better off having an actual school full of actual teachers, and a political and economic system that supports growth, community etc. than a free plastic laptop.



    Your second point is also wrong, but going into the detail would take more time than I want to spend here. I suggest you look it up. The situation was pretty much as the article above explains. Microsoft and intel had basically no interest in this market or this part of the world until OLPC. Then they came out with the classmate specifically to counter it, even though they had no intentions of really doing much of what they talked about with the project or the device.
  • Reply 26 of 58
    quadra 610quadra 610 Posts: 6,757member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post


    I think you're wrong on both counts.



    The mere presence of computers does not equate to learning, while it's a great thing that third world kids might get more access to computers, it's nothing to do with any "impact it would have on their developing brain," or any such pie in the sky stuff. It's a popular misconception in education circles that more computers equals more learning, but the people that have actually looked into it in any detail can tell you it's a false hope. Some kid in Africa would be better off having an actual school full of actual teachers, and a political and economic system that supports growth, community etc. than a free plastic laptop.



    Very true. Well put.
  • Reply 27 of 58
    hezekiahbhezekiahb Posts: 448member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    The problem is that some of those that mess with computers as a kid are the ones that eventually make ones that help build towards something that just works. How kids learn technology is by "messing with" it. Giving them a sealed box to learn from might be found to be the equivalent to just giving someone a fish rather than teaching them how to fish. I think the chances of making quality technology workers are higher for those that were tinkerers as children. If a person didn't have an innate curiosity of how things work, I don't know how they can make things that do work when the time comes.



    So your argument is that creating an easy to use, secure, & stable system stifles innovation? I think maybe you might want to re-think that a little.



    I would argue the opposite, for most tech savvy kids things that are more difficult to crack are where the excitement is & tends to feed their desire to learn about the depths of that system.
  • Reply 28 of 58
    jasenj1jasenj1 Posts: 923member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iStink View Post


    Then the comment about Microsoft and Intel making the Classmate so that they "ensure that third world children wouldn't be exposed to computers running anything other than an Intel CPU and a Microsoft operating system" seems pretty fucked up. I mean, if Microsoft and Intel wanted to make an affordable computer, you really think they'd build an AMD Linux system? Of course they'll use their own products.



    My recollection of how things happened is that OLPC revealed third and second world countries are interested in low-cost laptops that do more than enough for their "developing" needs - but aren't over-powered enough for us first world snobs who want ever higher GHz, GB, fps, etc.. MS & Intel realized there was $$$ to made and did their best to make it - at the expense of OLPC. Heck, an Apple //e or Commodore 64 class computer would be very useful to most of the world and have practically no cost to produce - see cell phones.



    Using the razor and blades analogy, it makes sense. If MS & Intel could flood the developing-world market with extremely low-cost machines, then as those users grew up out of poverty, MS & Intel would have consumers pre-disposed to their brands/products. And there are certainly higher cost products required to provide infrastructure, servers, etc. for all the cheap PCs. This model may actually accomplish Negroponte's vision - I'm speculating here - poor kids get computers; that they are MS & Intel products vs OLPCs isn't that important in the bigger scheme.



    OLPC had some very interesting ideas/visions on the software side, too. It sounds like those have been scrapped. Too bad.



    - Jasen.
  • Reply 29 of 58
    jasenj1jasenj1 Posts: 923member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post


    Then they came out with the classmate specifically to counter it, even though they had no intentions of really doing much of what they talked about with the project or the device.



    Here in lies true evil.



    - Jasen.
  • Reply 30 of 58
    jasenj1jasenj1 Posts: 923member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post


    Some kid in Africa would be better off having an actual school full of actual teachers, and a political and economic system that supports growth, community etc. than a free plastic laptop.



    True. But "we" can't send/export/provide that for the kid. We can send them a chunk of hardware that may help them develop those things you describe.



    - Jasen.
  • Reply 31 of 58
    johnnykrzjohnnykrz Posts: 152member
    Quote:

    In addition to the security model deployed for distributing iPhone software, Apple may soon reveal a similar effort to deliver secured software for Mac users; like the XO's Bitfrost and iPhone apps, this would require all software to be security savvy.



    I'm no security expert and not on the Apple board, so I have no idea what they have in store. I hope this doesn't give Apple power over what I put on my mac the way it does on the iPhone. I'm cool with it if it is just an added layer of security that ties into an API or something, but not if it means only apps get through that Apple approves of. Also, I would not want them to break the way that the Mac can easily pass information from one application to another. Surely they wouldn't consider crippling the Mac like they did the iPhone for security (that isn't even needed yet)?
  • Reply 32 of 58
    istinkistink Posts: 250member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post


    I think you're wrong on both counts.



    The mere presence of computers does not equate to learning, while it's a great thing that third world kids might get more access to computers, it's nothing to do with any "impact it would have on their developing brain," or any such pie in the sky stuff. It's a popular misconception in education circles that more computers equals more learning, but the people that have actually looked into it in any detail can tell you it's a false hope. Some kid in Africa would be better off having an actual school full of actual teachers, and a political and economic system that supports growth, community etc. than a free plastic laptop.



    Your second point is also wrong, but going into the detail would take more time than I want to spend here. I suggest you look it up. The situation was pretty much as the article above explains. Microsoft and intel had basically no interest in this market or this part of the world until OLPC. Then they came out with the classmate specifically to counter it, even though they had no intentions of really doing much of what they talked about with the project or the device.



    If they could give an actual school full of actual teachers, and an economic system that supports growth, all for FREE, that would be an obviously much better route for education. I'm not trying to say that if you hand a kid a computer, he suddenly is going to be extremely intelligent, BUT, it would help stimulate his mind. Access to the Internet starts with a computer, and with the internet, you can have pretty much any question answered. Every person has the right to access the accumulation of knowledge on the internet.



    My second point was basically in response to the astonishment that two companies are out to make money with their products.
  • Reply 33 of 58
    istinkistink Posts: 250member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jasenj1 View Post


    OLPC had some very interesting ideas/visions on the software side, too. It sounds like those have been scrapped. Too bad.



    - Jasen.



    Yeah it is too bad. When I first read about this, I thought to myself, wow this is going to help modernize parts of the world I never thought of. Now it's turned into business as usual, where if the profit isn't great enough, there's no point, or they try to cut corners to increase profit.



    It's all still a start though. Stuff like this doesn't just happen immediately. 10 years from now, I definitely see there being more promising opportunities for programs like this. A simple low cost machine with access to the internet that has the ability to answer any question a child might have would have a bigger impact than most people can imagine.
  • Reply 34 of 58
    kaiwaikaiwai Posts: 246member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MyopiaRocks View Post


    Krstic is my new hero:

    - Slamming the pollyanna-ish notion of free open-source software ever being more than a niche market.

    - Slamming OLPC for having a [dumb] business model.

    - Slamming OLPC's founder (Negroponte) as not being primarily interested in education or the large-scale deployment of OLPC laptops.



    And my favorite, the whole part where he talks about it being fun to mess with computers as a kid, but that as grownups people want computers that just work.



    Is "Ivan Krstic" croatian for "Steve Jobs Jr"?



    He didn't say anything new; I've been chanting the same things for over a decade.



    Most geeks get to a point where the fiddling becomes less and less interesting as free time becomes less and less to the point where one just wants a computer to work out of the box with minimum fuss; which led me to move from Linux/*BSD/Solaris to Mac OS X.
  • Reply 35 of 58
    virgil-tb2virgil-tb2 Posts: 1,416member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iStink View Post


    If they could give an actual school full of actual teachers, and an economic system that supports growth, all for FREE, that would be an obviously much better route for education. I'm not trying to say that if you hand a kid a computer, he suddenly is going to be extremely intelligent, BUT, it would help stimulate his mind. Access to the Internet starts with a computer, and with the internet, you can have pretty much any question answered. Every person has the right to access the accumulation of knowledge on the internet.



    My second point was basically in response to the astonishment that two companies are out to make money with their products.



    Yeah, makes sense.



    I work in Education, so I get that misconception about technology = learning every day. Perhaps I am oversensitive to the argument.

  • Reply 36 of 58
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post


    Have you been to india [...]



    Yes, for a horrible 6 month stretch to get my hands on the equipment I needed to finally pass my CCIE Voice cert. The equipment is very expensive to rent so going to India was a major cost savings, even when you consider that round the trip flight was $1,200 on BA. I hated almost every minute of it in almost every aspect. Everything you say is correct while also not being correct. The caste does exist, but not like it used to be. You can break free from poverty if you have the desire and aptitude, just like the US, though it will certainly be much harder. I still haven't watched Slumdog Millionaire simply because I'm sure it will remind of all the things I been trying to forget about the place. I didn't just study, I also traveled extensively around the upper half of the country.
  • Reply 37 of 58
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    Apple's propensity for examining new and better ways to deliver functionality rather than just expected features have confounded pundits....



    Incorrect grammar, guys.



    Apple's propensity (for examining new and better ways to deliver functionality, rather than just expected features) has confounded pundits....
  • Reply 38 of 58
    istinkistink Posts: 250member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by soundsgoodtome View Post


    Incorrect grammar, guys.



    Apple's propensity (for examining new and better ways to deliver functionality, rather than just expected features) has confounded pundits....



    yeah, its a character trait, not a possession. i see what u did thar
  • Reply 39 of 58
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by soundsgoodtome View Post


    Incorrect grammar, guys.



    Apple's propensity (for examining new and better ways to deliver functionality, rather than just expected features) has confounded pundits....



    I am dumbfounded by this. On the one hand I think you are correct a propensity is singular so it should use 'has'. On the other, the preposition 'for' after propensity does describe two things so 'have' could be used. I think you are more correct as, as you have shown, the sentence stands in a simple form, but I think that both ways may be considered correct by and large.
  • Reply 40 of 58
    This is Steve Jobs' legacy project!

    Apple wanted to help out and was going to give them OSx and engineering for free. Sadly, they were overcome with Redmond.

    Apple bought that chip manufacturer for cheap, low power chips, their new way of machining laptops makes it easier to have a manufacture almost anywhere in the world (including Africa), now they get one of the "cheap laptops for the third world" guys who know how to do it.

    Steve wants to leave a legacy for the world. Inside each laptop will be inscribed "Steve was here".



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