Why do so many people lie about the cost of an iPhone. It has never cost $1,800 a year just for an iPhone. You can't, well you can but it would be an unfair comparison, add in the cost of voice service because if you had a standard phone you would have to pay that anyway. You should only add in the additional cost of the data plan.
The truth is that it cost no more for the iPhone than any other PDA level phone. and that's $720, $960 for business users, over two years. IMHO, people keep using that $1,800 number just to try an put the iPhone down using FUD.
As far as the cost of the phone it's self, it's not much different than other PDL level phones. Most of them cost around $200. Considering what you get I don't see what's to complain about but if you must, go by a Microsoft power phone and have fun.
I think too many people are reading "lower Income" as "low income" - Lower than $100,000 annual income leaves a rather large gap between existing customer and the official poverty level.
In other words - if you target audience is folks who make $40k or more and your surveys indicate that no one making less than $75k is buying your product - then you need to make some kind of adjustment.
Exactly. Not sure why the phrasing created a debate - I think it's just people who want to find something to disagree with. Clearly lowering the price of a good is done to try to attract people who have less money to spend on that good and thus increase overall sales. What's the debate?
Intel and Microsoft were very aggressive when it came to influencing the direction of the PC market. Their focus was affordability, which meant low cost, low range machines compared to what IBM was churning out.
I think this is essentially a myth. Intel produced the processors for the original IBM-PC, which cost around $3,000 back in the day when that was a ton of money. There wasn't any deliberate "focus on affordability" -- IBM lost control of their product, which allowed anyone to make an IBM-PC. The hardware market became extremely competitive while the OS market became decidedly uncompetitive.
Get ready for a rip off, it will probably be a return to what cell data used to be like, where the $20 plan will be something like 5 to 10 MB with a 0.02 per KB charge therafter, no data cut off, just a racing meter and a huge bill...I see a PR nightmare when little Billy's dad and/or mom gets a $1000 bill because he watched 20 youtube videos in the course of a month.
A $20 limited data plan and a $99 iPhone would be sweet indeed for us poor folk.
I never understood why AT&T is so inflexible here. There are different plans in most other countries, sometimes with a tiered subsidy. In Germany I could now get the 16 GB model for as little as 19.95 EUR (27 USD), connection/setup fee waived, 54 USD off each of the first six monthly bills and a free 40 EUR iTunes voucher on top of that, when subscribing to the higher plan. But there are cheaper plans available, starting at 34 USD/mth with no included voice minutes (but a weekend flat) and 200 MB data (the 16 GB iPhone costs USD 175 with this plan). In total they offer no less than 10 different plans with the iPhone, so most people can find something matching the mix of voice/text/data they really need. And still, the subsidies are higher (the maximum price for the 16GB model is 175 USD and 81 USD for the 8 GB). AT&T and Apple must have quite some maneuvering space to lower prices here.
Apple is playing with Palm by making these statements[...]
Note as well the rumors Apple is reconsidering background apps on the iPhone. Is this posturing or is Apple actually running scared? (Probably both--the hallmark of competition).
IMHO, with its webapp model, Palm is going where Apple originally envisioned the iPhone would go. But Apple encountered an unexpected opportunity with native iPhone apps and is now in the position of having to bolster/justify its position.
I would prefer for AT&T to offer a voice only plan for the IPhone. I want a Touch and I need a cell phone and I don't want to carry to devices. I would pay $100 more for the IPhone if I did not have to get the data plan. Think how many Touch buyers AT&T could have signed up if they had such a plan.
None.
Why would they (or you) want to carry an iPhone AND a touch?
It benefits Apple to have the Data plan as it helps them push MobileME on the public.
And AT&T's not going to stop them as they get more income. So who is to blame?
Not True, use to sync the phone via computer for a long time, this was nothing new since we used a Palm Pilot for years then a Treo, MobileMe just made it a bit easier and allow us to update a calendar on the fly and I can see the changes on the web and out kids see the changes when they log into their accounts on the home computer.
Again paying for a service that makes your life easier as worth it. Especially on a daily bases you have to keep track of multiply people schedule and knowing where people need to be all the time.
Get ready for a rip off, it will probably be a return to what cell data used to be like, where the $20 plan will be something like 5 to 10 MB with a 0.02 per KB charge therafter, no data cut off, just a racing meter and a huge bill...I see a PR nightmare when little Billy's dad and/or mom gets a $1000 bill because he watched 20 youtube videos in the course of a month.
Actually AT&T has the ability to throttle your kids activities on their phones so they do not run up the bill. You can get them a all include plan if they fits your needs or a limited plan and set limits so no more big bills each month because you kid does not understand the meaning of no, your not allow to do that.
Why do so many people lie about the cost of an iPhone. It has never cost $1,800 a year just for an iPhone. You can't, well you can but it would be an unfair comparison, add in the cost of voice service because if you had a standard phone you would have to pay that anyway. You should only add in the additional cost of the data plan.
The truth is that it cost no more for the iPhone than any other PDA level phone. and that's $720, $960 for business users, over two years. IMHO, people keep using that $1,800 number just to try an put the iPhone down using FUD.
As far as the cost of the phone it's self, it's not much different than other PDL level phones. Most of them cost around $200. Considering what you get I don't see what's to complain about but if you must, go by a Microsoft power phone and have fun.
Because it is the cost difference of having just a phone and no data plans and getting the iphone. It is FUD for the people who can not and should not have something they can not pay for. Notice how Apple never came out and address this issue, because their initial market was not people who just carry a phone around, it was people who wanted it all in a phone and were tired of carrying multiply products around.
So if all you could afford was a basic phone with a basic plan, meaning a give away phone with so many so call free minutes for 29.95 a month, and someone told you the cost of an iphone at the end of the day would be $1800 do you think you would run out and buy it. Of course not, and apple did not care if these people sat at home and did not buy, it was not the market they were going after.
I can tell we went form a Treo, which we bought out right and a minute and data package with the iphone both on AT&T and the Iphone was less overall. our plan was $39 for 250 minutes and $39 for unlimited data, and we switch to the iphone and we pay $50 for 550 minutes and $19.95 for unlimited data, so it was a saving of $10 per month
This is like saying it take $30K to fill an Ipod, for someone who does not owe any music this would probably keep them form buying.
But see, everything you just said is countered with the exact opposite argument when this subject comes up regarding Apple's laptops. People insist if Apple released a main stream affordable macbook, it "wouldn't be a mac." But then again that's a bit more complicated. A 2gb iphone for 100 bucks doesn't sound out of this world I suppose.
laptops and PC's are a mature market and will lose market share in the future to mobile devices
cell phones and netbooks are the next frontier and that's where the competition is and your share has to be protected.
like back in the early 1980's when PC first came out. all the mainframe/unix elitists dismissed them and Wintel destroyed everyone except for IBM, Oracle and a few others
nice thing about cell phones is people will buy the model from last year or two years ago. apple can keep on selling the 3g for an ultra low price of around $49 or free while selling the new one for $299. it's like a game console, you can keep on building the same hardware for a lot cheaper every year
Why do so many people lie about the cost of an iPhone. It has never cost $1,800 a year just for an iPhone. You can't, well you can but it would be an unfair comparison, add in the cost of voice service because if you had a standard phone you would have to pay that anyway. You should only add in the additional cost of the data plan.
The truth is that it cost no more for the iPhone than any other PDA level phone. and that's $720, $960 for business users, over two years. IMHO, people keep using that $1,800 number just to try an put the iPhone down using FUD.
As far as the cost of the phone it's self, it's not much different than other PDL level phones. Most of them cost around $200. Considering what you get I don't see what's to complain about but if you must, go by a Microsoft power phone and have fun.
It also gets pretty wearying to constantly hear about AT&T's "greed", and how the pricing structure for the iPhone, in particular, is somehow some kind of egregious rip-off or outlandish or astonishing.
When in fact the rates for an iPhone plan are exactly in line with (American) industry norms. Somehow that fact never seems to sink in.
It's perfectly reasonable to consider the entire cellphone industry overpriced, or to wish for finer resolution between tiers, or hope for a "data only" or "voice only" iPhone (however unlikely some of those things may be).
But it's simply ignorant to rail against AT&T in general, or the iPhone in particular, for being a "rip-off." The fact that you may have some kind of long standing super deal from Sprint doesn't tell us anything about what the prevailing rates are.
Having said that, I do think that getting data rates down, or ideally offering an affordable "everything" plan, may or may not be key to mass adoption of smart phones and the iPhone especially.
I say especially because the iPhone was designed to be the smart phone "for the rest of us", and given the adoption rates it's clear that the iPhone is being purchased by people who might not have considered such a device before its release. Given the state of smart phone UIs prior to the iPhone, I think it's pretty clear why that should be. However, such new adopters may be shocked by the additional cost of owning a data driven device, compared to the voice only plans they are used to.
I think Apple has the opportunity to drive the shift from "just a phone" to "pocketable computer" as being the defacto standard of mobile devices, but that won't happen until either the rates come down (to something more in line with what people pay for broadband access at home), and/or the advantages of carrying a small computer with you at all times become so compelling and ubiquitous "average" folks just resign themselves to paying what they have to to be part of the trend-- just as they have for internet access, cell phone voice plans, and cable TV.
I mean, we could certainly start telling everybody that their next free phone actually costs $1200 (assuming a $50 voice plan and a two year contract), but that's not going to deter anyone because the cost of voice cell plans are now "built in" to the average person's ideas about what it costs to operate a modern lifestyle.
So it may be that, even without any particular reductions in the price structure of smart phone plans, at some point "most people" will come to regard those costs as a necessary evil.
In fact, I would go so far as to say that absolutely is going to happen; I also think that reduced data rates will hasten the process.
I think this is essentially a myth. Intel produced the processors for the original IBM-PC, which cost around $3,000 back in the day when that was a ton of money. There wasn't any deliberate "focus on affordability" -- IBM lost control of their product, which allowed anyone to make an IBM-PC. The hardware market became extremely competitive while the OS market became decidedly uncompetitive.
20 years ago almost any PC, server or complex piece of electronics you bought the hardware/software cost was somewhere around 90% for the hardware. Today you pay more for the software in anything you buy and the hardware is just disposable junk
With two iPhones (a 2G and a 3G), and a Nokia, our monthly AT&T bill is $165.00 for a 700 minutes plan. I've come to realize that is a lot of money. Reason why we will not have another iPhone in our family.
The high price that one pays for the "luxury" of a having smart phone (I believe it is across the board, Verizon or Sprint may not be much cheaper than AT&T) is driving people away. The once hungry market for these products is rapidly disappearing. I hope and believe that Apple is in a better position than its competitors to address this issue.
With a blackberry and a piece of crap Nokia, our T-Mobile bill is $140 unlimited calls/text. You get an extra phone, another smartphone at that, though limited for only $25 more. Sounds like a decent deal to me.
Comments
The truth is that it cost no more for the iPhone than any other PDA level phone. and that's $720, $960 for business users, over two years. IMHO, people keep using that $1,800 number just to try an put the iPhone down using FUD.
As far as the cost of the phone it's self, it's not much different than other PDL level phones. Most of them cost around $200. Considering what you get I don't see what's to complain about but if you must, go by a Microsoft power phone and have fun.
I think too many people are reading "lower Income" as "low income" - Lower than $100,000 annual income leaves a rather large gap between existing customer and the official poverty level.
In other words - if you target audience is folks who make $40k or more and your surveys indicate that no one making less than $75k is buying your product - then you need to make some kind of adjustment.
Exactly. Not sure why the phrasing created a debate - I think it's just people who want to find something to disagree with. Clearly lowering the price of a good is done to try to attract people who have less money to spend on that good and thus increase overall sales. What's the debate?
Intel and Microsoft were very aggressive when it came to influencing the direction of the PC market. Their focus was affordability, which meant low cost, low range machines compared to what IBM was churning out.
I think this is essentially a myth. Intel produced the processors for the original IBM-PC, which cost around $3,000 back in the day when that was a ton of money. There wasn't any deliberate "focus on affordability" -- IBM lost control of their product, which allowed anyone to make an IBM-PC. The hardware market became extremely competitive while the OS market became decidedly uncompetitive.
And AT&T's not going to stop them as they get more income. So who is to blame?
A $20 limited data plan and a $99 iPhone would be sweet indeed for us poor folk.
I never understood why AT&T is so inflexible here. There are different plans in most other countries, sometimes with a tiered subsidy. In Germany I could now get the 16 GB model for as little as 19.95 EUR (27 USD), connection/setup fee waived, 54 USD off each of the first six monthly bills and a free 40 EUR iTunes voucher on top of that, when subscribing to the higher plan. But there are cheaper plans available, starting at 34 USD/mth with no included voice minutes (but a weekend flat) and 200 MB data (the 16 GB iPhone costs USD 175 with this plan). In total they offer no less than 10 different plans with the iPhone, so most people can find something matching the mix of voice/text/data they really need. And still, the subsidies are higher (the maximum price for the 16GB model is 175 USD and 81 USD for the 8 GB). AT&T and Apple must have quite some maneuvering space to lower prices here.
He would, but considering the iphone doesn't have cut copy paste yet, how would you propose he does that?
Apple is playing with Palm by making these statements[...]
Note as well the rumors Apple is reconsidering background apps on the iPhone. Is this posturing or is Apple actually running scared? (Probably both--the hallmark of competition).
IMHO, with its webapp model, Palm is going where Apple originally envisioned the iPhone would go. But Apple encountered an unexpected opportunity with native iPhone apps and is now in the position of having to bolster/justify its position.
I would prefer for AT&T to offer a voice only plan for the IPhone. I want a Touch and I need a cell phone and I don't want to carry to devices. I would pay $100 more for the IPhone if I did not have to get the data plan. Think how many Touch buyers AT&T could have signed up if they had such a plan.
None.
Why would they (or you) want to carry an iPhone AND a touch?
It benefits Apple to have the Data plan as it helps them push MobileME on the public.
And AT&T's not going to stop them as they get more income. So who is to blame?
Not True, use to sync the phone via computer for a long time, this was nothing new since we used a Palm Pilot for years then a Treo, MobileMe just made it a bit easier and allow us to update a calendar on the fly and I can see the changes on the web and out kids see the changes when they log into their accounts on the home computer.
Again paying for a service that makes your life easier as worth it. Especially on a daily bases you have to keep track of multiply people schedule and knowing where people need to be all the time.
Get ready for a rip off, it will probably be a return to what cell data used to be like, where the $20 plan will be something like 5 to 10 MB with a 0.02 per KB charge therafter, no data cut off, just a racing meter and a huge bill...I see a PR nightmare when little Billy's dad and/or mom gets a $1000 bill because he watched 20 youtube videos in the course of a month.
Actually AT&T has the ability to throttle your kids activities on their phones so they do not run up the bill. You can get them a all include plan if they fits your needs or a limited plan and set limits so no more big bills each month because you kid does not understand the meaning of no, your not allow to do that.
Why do so many people lie about the cost of an iPhone. It has never cost $1,800 a year just for an iPhone. You can't, well you can but it would be an unfair comparison, add in the cost of voice service because if you had a standard phone you would have to pay that anyway. You should only add in the additional cost of the data plan.
The truth is that it cost no more for the iPhone than any other PDA level phone. and that's $720, $960 for business users, over two years. IMHO, people keep using that $1,800 number just to try an put the iPhone down using FUD.
As far as the cost of the phone it's self, it's not much different than other PDL level phones. Most of them cost around $200. Considering what you get I don't see what's to complain about but if you must, go by a Microsoft power phone and have fun.
Because it is the cost difference of having just a phone and no data plans and getting the iphone. It is FUD for the people who can not and should not have something they can not pay for. Notice how Apple never came out and address this issue, because their initial market was not people who just carry a phone around, it was people who wanted it all in a phone and were tired of carrying multiply products around.
So if all you could afford was a basic phone with a basic plan, meaning a give away phone with so many so call free minutes for 29.95 a month, and someone told you the cost of an iphone at the end of the day would be $1800 do you think you would run out and buy it. Of course not, and apple did not care if these people sat at home and did not buy, it was not the market they were going after.
I can tell we went form a Treo, which we bought out right and a minute and data package with the iphone both on AT&T and the Iphone was less overall. our plan was $39 for 250 minutes and $39 for unlimited data, and we switch to the iphone and we pay $50 for 550 minutes and $19.95 for unlimited data, so it was a saving of $10 per month
This is like saying it take $30K to fill an Ipod, for someone who does not owe any music this would probably keep them form buying.
AT&T has never sounded like Apple.
..
,,
.
the same
5 guys
come here and bitch
every day
mow your lawn
feed your parking meters
o
o boy
to wander this world
with mac on your side
to come here and have 1000's of posts
bitching about a company that makes metal boxes
fan boys love apple for the freedom it has given us
for all we care the rest of you can go fuck yourselves on a msft site where you belong
15inunibodymacbookproisthefinestmostportablelaptop evermadetodate
9
But see, everything you just said is countered with the exact opposite argument when this subject comes up regarding Apple's laptops. People insist if Apple released a main stream affordable macbook, it "wouldn't be a mac." But then again that's a bit more complicated. A 2gb iphone for 100 bucks doesn't sound out of this world I suppose.
laptops and PC's are a mature market and will lose market share in the future to mobile devices
cell phones and netbooks are the next frontier and that's where the competition is and your share has to be protected.
like back in the early 1980's when PC first came out. all the mainframe/unix elitists dismissed them and Wintel destroyed everyone except for IBM, Oracle and a few others
nice thing about cell phones is people will buy the model from last year or two years ago. apple can keep on selling the 3g for an ultra low price of around $49 or free while selling the new one for $299. it's like a game console, you can keep on building the same hardware for a lot cheaper every year
Why do so many people lie about the cost of an iPhone. It has never cost $1,800 a year just for an iPhone. You can't, well you can but it would be an unfair comparison, add in the cost of voice service because if you had a standard phone you would have to pay that anyway. You should only add in the additional cost of the data plan.
The truth is that it cost no more for the iPhone than any other PDA level phone. and that's $720, $960 for business users, over two years. IMHO, people keep using that $1,800 number just to try an put the iPhone down using FUD.
As far as the cost of the phone it's self, it's not much different than other PDL level phones. Most of them cost around $200. Considering what you get I don't see what's to complain about but if you must, go by a Microsoft power phone and have fun.
It also gets pretty wearying to constantly hear about AT&T's "greed", and how the pricing structure for the iPhone, in particular, is somehow some kind of egregious rip-off or outlandish or astonishing.
When in fact the rates for an iPhone plan are exactly in line with (American) industry norms. Somehow that fact never seems to sink in.
It's perfectly reasonable to consider the entire cellphone industry overpriced, or to wish for finer resolution between tiers, or hope for a "data only" or "voice only" iPhone (however unlikely some of those things may be).
But it's simply ignorant to rail against AT&T in general, or the iPhone in particular, for being a "rip-off." The fact that you may have some kind of long standing super deal from Sprint doesn't tell us anything about what the prevailing rates are.
Having said that, I do think that getting data rates down, or ideally offering an affordable "everything" plan, may or may not be key to mass adoption of smart phones and the iPhone especially.
I say especially because the iPhone was designed to be the smart phone "for the rest of us", and given the adoption rates it's clear that the iPhone is being purchased by people who might not have considered such a device before its release. Given the state of smart phone UIs prior to the iPhone, I think it's pretty clear why that should be. However, such new adopters may be shocked by the additional cost of owning a data driven device, compared to the voice only plans they are used to.
I think Apple has the opportunity to drive the shift from "just a phone" to "pocketable computer" as being the defacto standard of mobile devices, but that won't happen until either the rates come down (to something more in line with what people pay for broadband access at home), and/or the advantages of carrying a small computer with you at all times become so compelling and ubiquitous "average" folks just resign themselves to paying what they have to to be part of the trend-- just as they have for internet access, cell phone voice plans, and cable TV.
I mean, we could certainly start telling everybody that their next free phone actually costs $1200 (assuming a $50 voice plan and a two year contract), but that's not going to deter anyone because the cost of voice cell plans are now "built in" to the average person's ideas about what it costs to operate a modern lifestyle.
So it may be that, even without any particular reductions in the price structure of smart phone plans, at some point "most people" will come to regard those costs as a necessary evil.
In fact, I would go so far as to say that absolutely is going to happen; I also think that reduced data rates will hasten the process.
I think this is essentially a myth. Intel produced the processors for the original IBM-PC, which cost around $3,000 back in the day when that was a ton of money. There wasn't any deliberate "focus on affordability" -- IBM lost control of their product, which allowed anyone to make an IBM-PC. The hardware market became extremely competitive while the OS market became decidedly uncompetitive.
20 years ago almost any PC, server or complex piece of electronics you bought the hardware/software cost was somewhere around 90% for the hardware. Today you pay more for the software in anything you buy and the hardware is just disposable junk
With two iPhones (a 2G and a 3G), and a Nokia, our monthly AT&T bill is $165.00 for a 700 minutes plan. I've come to realize that is a lot of money. Reason why we will not have another iPhone in our family.
The high price that one pays for the "luxury" of a having smart phone (I believe it is across the board, Verizon or Sprint may not be much cheaper than AT&T) is driving people away. The once hungry market for these products is rapidly disappearing. I hope and believe that Apple is in a better position than its competitors to address this issue.
With a blackberry and a piece of crap Nokia, our T-Mobile bill is $140 unlimited calls/text. You get an extra phone, another smartphone at that, though limited for only $25 more. Sounds like a decent deal to me.
when has Apple ever said they are doing anything for the lower income audience? They couldn't care less about the low income consumer if they tried.
And that claim is supported by the existence of a $49 iPod....how?