I've been waiting for someone to point out a single killer feature on this phone for weeks now. Here we are, approaching launch, and I still haven't seen one. Let's see: it's fat and heavy, it's linked to Sprint who is widely derided as the worst US carrier, it has no apps (yet) and the company is short on cash.
Now we learn it doesn't even compete on price, until after a mail-in rebate? Mail in rebate? Are you joking?!
Dead.
Wait, here's something: "You can move back and forth between text messaging and e-mail, or search the web while you listen to music," the company said. "You can rearrange items simply by dragging them, and when you are done with something, just throw it away by flicking it off the top of the screen.
Wow! All the things I already do on my iPhone. No seriously, I can do every single one of those things right now. SMS comes up in a pop-up when you're in other apps, and the iPod plays under everything else.
Dead.
Maury
it's supposed to run any app designed for previous palm devices which is around 80,000 from what i heard. and porting apps to it is supposed to be easy and 4000 iphone apps are supposed to be ready for it by next month or so
I'd rather take any stupid rebate from these companies than no rebate from Apple.
I hate rebates too but still prefer it to nothing or $100 off the company's products.
You may not get the rebate. That's why they offer it that way.
Believe me, I know. I used to be on Sprint. Half of the rebates they refused to give me, even though I was very careful to do exactly what was demanded.
With one, they said that I sent it in too late, even thought I did it online, the very same day. Another time they said that I didn't fill one out correctly, even though I had made a copy, and showed them that I did.
Another time, I was told that I would be given a new phone for one that was broken, and that I should go back to the Sprint store I bought it from, only to have the manager of the store tell me that they didn't have to do what the Sprint telephone reps said they should.
Believe me, Sprint is not a wonderful place to be at.
If they're offering this with a $100 rebate, I guarantee that a fair number of people won't get it, or will have a hell of a time getting it. That's the whole point of rebates.
It used to be that when I sent rebate info in to companies that do that for the sellers, I always got my money. But increasingly over the past few years, that hasn't been so. You really have to fight for it, and so I usually rather buy something that hasn't got a rebate, from a place that has lower prices, but not as low as it would be with a rebate. I figure that over the long haul, I'm doing just as well with a lot less frustration.
As far as this phone goes, the only possible advantage seems to be concurrent programs?if it works as well as they say it does, which is something no one knows yet because they haven't allowed it out of the lab except for a couple of short, controlled excursions.
The upper row of keys is too close to the overhanging bottom of the body of the device, something that was mentioned by two reporters allowed to use it for a few minutes under supervision. The screen is quite a bit smaller that the one in the iPhone. 3.1" vs 3.5" may not sound too different, but it is.
At the same price as the current 8 GB iPhone when you, hopefully, get your rebate back from Sprint, it may not be much of a deal either. After all, despite what you say about getting rebates over Apple not giving any, you forget (conveniently, it seems) that this phone WITH the rebate costs the same as Apple's 8 GB model WITHOUT the rebate, and without the rebate (which you may not get), it costs the same as Apple's 16 GB model. Not very impressive. It's very possible that Apple will offer a $199 model with 16 GB and a $299 model with 32 GB this summer on top of that.
If so, how are they going to make money on this without having to drop the price further? If they have to do that, someone will take a big loss. Neither Palm or Sprint can afford that now, with both losing customers at such high rates, along with currently having large losses.
The only problem I see, is that it's on Sprint, and they are probably the worst of the major 4 carriers in the US.
Oh GOD don't even get me started. Sprint has been some of the worst, and best experiences I've had. You know what I tell people thinking of switching to sprint? As long as you never have to deal with customer service, everything will be hunky dory! That's the truth. Dealing with customer service will enrage you beyond anything you've felt. Some people flat out hang up on you. It's painfully obvious Sprint cuts cost by hiring morons for tier 1 and 2 level customer support.
sorry teckstud but he's right. I'm not sure where he's getting that $200-300 figure, but it's definitely a joke to pay the extra $100 up front, including tax, then wait for a rebate.
Maybe I'm the only one but I had no qualms about buying a printer from the Apple store with my last two Mac purchases and then waiting (not long) for my $100 rebate from Apple.
my work BB is on sprint, wife's work BB is on verizon and she has an iphone
in NYC sprint it flaky. i can walk down the street and go to 2G, walk a few more blocks and back to 3G. but there are more spots in the subway underground where i can get a signal. speed is about the same as AT&T. once in a while i'll try to pull a youtube video from my BB and my wife's iphone and performance is usually bad on both of them.
not because of the network, but youtube has to go back to google's servers. it's not staged around the internet like a lot of other content.
Maybe I'm the only one but I had no qualms about buying a printer from the Apple store with my last two Mac purchases and then waiting (not long) for my $100 rebate from Apple.
CMON WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PHONES HERE STAY ON SUBJECT lol
but seriously, I see your point. Every company does it, it seems. Is it for marketing research or something? Is it surveying the demographic of who's buying the product? I guess they figure if they are gonna get people to willingly send that info, and for that info to be as precise as possible, they have to offer an incentive nobody with a brain will pass up...
Maybe I'm the only one but I had no qualms about buying a printer from the Apple store with my last two Mac purchases and then waiting (not long) for my $100 rebate from Apple.
The point is they are going up against the iPhone and the iPhone is $199 w/out having to submit for a mail in rebate whereas the Pre is only $199 after the mail in rebate. If you could have had those printers at the same time for the post mail-in rebate price (and not having to pay the tax on that increased price) wouldn't you rather do that?
Also, I was basing the $200-$300 on how much they charge you for the phone w/out the 2 year agreement (I couldn't remember which one it was so I went w/ the range).
The point is they are going up against the iPhone and the iPhone is $199 w/out having to submit for a mail in rebate whereas the Pre is only $199 after the mail in rebate. If you could have had those printers at the same time for the post mail-in rebate price (and not having to pay the tax on that increased price) wouldn't you rather do that?
Also, I was basing the $200-$300 on how much they charge you for the phone w/out the 2 year agreement (I couldn't remember which one it was so I went w/ the range).
When I inquired about the iphone at best buy about 8 months ago or so, the girl working there said it was 200 with sign up, but 400 for a replacement (this is the 8gb model.) She was trying real hard to sell me on the 15 dollar insurance that nobody else but best buy offered, but said lost or stolen iphones aren't covered, neither is water damage or broken screen. Basically the phone would have to die on it's own and now I'm ranting so I'll shutup.
CMON WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PHONES HERE STAY ON SUBJECT lol
but seriously, I see your point. Every company does it, it seems. Is it for marketing research or something? Is it surveying the demographic of who's buying the product? I guess they figure if they are gonna get people to willingly send that info, and for that info to be as precise as possible, they have to offer an incentive nobody with a brain will pass up...
Nah, it's because they market it with big huge 144pt font $199 and then in tiny 12pt font they put the asterisk and the "after mail-in rebate" part. They know there's a decent % of people that never even submit the form because they lose their receipt or just plain forget about doing it within the tiny window allowed for submitting it. You're telling people "Hey, we'll give you 33% off but you have to got through 5 steps after you get home to get it and you have to make sure you do it in the next 3 weeks." There's going to be plenty of people that don't do it and you end up raking in the moola. Not to mention those companies get the extra cash now even if they have to give it back to you in a month or two they'd rather have it now.
Ya know, an iPhone in the hand is worth 2 pre's in the bush
I currently have an iPhone, and I love it. However the thought of having a phone that has a tactile keyboard and a touch screen is very appealing to me. Giving up a tactile keyboard for a mutable interface was an even compromise for me, but it was a compromise. Getting the best of both worlds would be amazing.
From what I have seen the OS/interface look to be very capable and easy to use. A lot of cues from the iPhone but quite a bit of original stuff and/or improvements.
However the Pre has some serious issues that I can see:
Screen appears to be plastic not glass. Sounds like a it would be easy to scratch.
No landscape mode.
Lack of multi-touch?(pinch/zoom/etc)
No App Store. The App Store extends the iPhone to an extent that would be hard to match.
Finally, how does it sync with a Mac? Can it use iCal/Mail/Address Book/etc? There has to be a vehicle of some sort. An iTunes equivalent. Palm Desktop software SUCKS in general and even more so on a Mac. Or it did. Even if the above problems are addressed or mitigated being able to sync with my computer is a deal breaker.
Oh, and Sprint... I hate AT&T but Sprint is worse.
First, I am going to BestBuy to get the Pre because they don't do mail in rebates. So it will just be $200. Also, Sprints 3G network is so much faster than AT&T's that I think it is a very smart choice to put the phone on. Plus the wireless touchstone charger is a plus! Can't wait. Finally something better than the iPhone.
Don't forget that the iPhone feature set that the Pre is competing against is effectively 2 years old. Last year's update was really only pretty minor, with the addition of 3G and GPS. People seem to be pre-judging the Pre (ack - awful pun) based on comparison's with LAST YEAR's iPhone. Wait and see what June brings...
As an experienced iPhone developer, I seriously, seriously doubt that the apps that you'll see on the Pre will come anywhere close to what's possible on the iPhone. You aren't going to get Tiger Woods Golf written in Javascript anytime soon, believe me.
Palm do not have some secret mojo as regards battery life either - if you have multiple apps running and hitting the networking hardware (WiFi, GSM or GPS) then you are going to take a big hit on battery life. Perhaps they are hoping people will have those induction chargers dotted around the house, office and car so the thing charges up whilst you're using it... ?
it's supposed to run any app designed for previous palm devices which is around 80,000 from what i heard. and porting apps to it is supposed to be easy and 4000 iphone apps are supposed to be ready for it by next month or so
In emulation. No one has seen that yet, so we don't know how well it might work. It might be fine, and it might not.
First, I am going to BestBuy to get the Pre because they don't do mail in rebates. So it will just be $200. Also, Sprints 3G network is so much faster than AT&T's that I think it is a very smart choice to put the phone on. Plus the wireless touchstone charger is a plus! Can't wait. Finally something better than the iPhone.
...for the 5 minutes before the battery goes dead. Until there is some massive breakthrough in battery life or power consumption, push notification is a better model.
Push notification is absolutely not a better solution. It is a very limited solution to a very limited set of problems.
For instance, it does not solve the problem of an incoming phone call interrupting Skype. Nor does it allow incoming Skype calls to get to you -- for that you have to remain logged in. Nor does it allow location-aware apps to tell people where you are. Nor can you
There is a non-multitasking solution to all of these problems, however. But when I mention it here everyone calls me an idiot. I'll say it again anyway.
The iPhone API needs a separate "PresenceKit". This is an API and associated daemon that any application can use to keep itself "alive" on the network, even when it's not running. For instance, Skype would have a library that used it which would log into the Skype network, keeping you "alive" and thereby allowing incoming calls even if you're not running Skype on the iPhone. The user could select what conditions it would log in - for instance, perhaps you want to use it with only certain WiFi's (like at home), or maybe only if you aren't logged into Skype somewhere else (like your iMac).
Chat clients, location-aware social networking apps, phone-like applications could all make use of this. Better yet, since some of the state is universal (ie, Skype only works on WiFi), the iPhone could turn off the code when those conditions are not met. The plug-ins could also tell the PresenceKit daemon how often they have to be checked, or what should happen when they start up or shut down. All of these features would allow the CPU and networking needs to be tightly controlled, and thereby maximize battery life.
I would also argue that there should be a similar plug-in for Phone and Messages (nee SMS). Skype would use the former to allow Phone to act as the UI, so I could get all my inbound and outbound "phone-like calls" from within a single interface. Or get GChat from within Messages.
[*]Screen appears to be plastic not glass. Sounds like a it would be easy to scratch.[*]No landscape mode.[*]Lack of multi-touch?(pinch/zoom/etc)[*]No App Store. The App Store extends the iPhone to an extent that would be hard to
It does do the multi touch. A couple designers of the iPhone helped design this phone. Remember the lawsuits that Apple was threating about the touch??? Also, their will be an app store. The 35,000 palm apps that already exist will work on the Pre, plus it was released to developers to design apps. Do you thing they wouldn't compeat? Try some more arguements.
Comments
I've been waiting for someone to point out a single killer feature on this phone for weeks now. Here we are, approaching launch, and I still haven't seen one. Let's see: it's fat and heavy, it's linked to Sprint who is widely derided as the worst US carrier, it has no apps (yet) and the company is short on cash.
Now we learn it doesn't even compete on price, until after a mail-in rebate? Mail in rebate? Are you joking?!
Dead.
Wait, here's something: "You can move back and forth between text messaging and e-mail, or search the web while you listen to music," the company said. "You can rearrange items simply by dragging them, and when you are done with something, just throw it away by flicking it off the top of the screen.
Wow! All the things I already do on my iPhone. No seriously, I can do every single one of those things right now. SMS comes up in a pop-up when you're in other apps, and the iPod plays under everything else.
Dead.
Maury
it's supposed to run any app designed for previous palm devices which is around 80,000 from what i heard. and porting apps to it is supposed to be easy and 4000 iphone apps are supposed to be ready for it by next month or so
I'd rather take any stupid rebate from these companies than no rebate from Apple.
I hate rebates too but still prefer it to nothing or $100 off the company's products.
You may not get the rebate. That's why they offer it that way.
Believe me, I know. I used to be on Sprint. Half of the rebates they refused to give me, even though I was very careful to do exactly what was demanded.
With one, they said that I sent it in too late, even thought I did it online, the very same day. Another time they said that I didn't fill one out correctly, even though I had made a copy, and showed them that I did.
Another time, I was told that I would be given a new phone for one that was broken, and that I should go back to the Sprint store I bought it from, only to have the manager of the store tell me that they didn't have to do what the Sprint telephone reps said they should.
Believe me, Sprint is not a wonderful place to be at.
If they're offering this with a $100 rebate, I guarantee that a fair number of people won't get it, or will have a hell of a time getting it. That's the whole point of rebates.
It used to be that when I sent rebate info in to companies that do that for the sellers, I always got my money. But increasingly over the past few years, that hasn't been so. You really have to fight for it, and so I usually rather buy something that hasn't got a rebate, from a place that has lower prices, but not as low as it would be with a rebate. I figure that over the long haul, I'm doing just as well with a lot less frustration.
As far as this phone goes, the only possible advantage seems to be concurrent programs?if it works as well as they say it does, which is something no one knows yet because they haven't allowed it out of the lab except for a couple of short, controlled excursions.
The upper row of keys is too close to the overhanging bottom of the body of the device, something that was mentioned by two reporters allowed to use it for a few minutes under supervision. The screen is quite a bit smaller that the one in the iPhone. 3.1" vs 3.5" may not sound too different, but it is.
At the same price as the current 8 GB iPhone when you, hopefully, get your rebate back from Sprint, it may not be much of a deal either. After all, despite what you say about getting rebates over Apple not giving any, you forget (conveniently, it seems) that this phone WITH the rebate costs the same as Apple's 8 GB model WITHOUT the rebate, and without the rebate (which you may not get), it costs the same as Apple's 16 GB model. Not very impressive. It's very possible that Apple will offer a $199 model with 16 GB and a $299 model with 32 GB this summer on top of that.
If so, how are they going to make money on this without having to drop the price further? If they have to do that, someone will take a big loss. Neither Palm or Sprint can afford that now, with both losing customers at such high rates, along with currently having large losses.
The only problem I see, is that it's on Sprint, and they are probably the worst of the major 4 carriers in the US.
Oh GOD don't even get me started. Sprint has been some of the worst, and best experiences I've had. You know what I tell people thinking of switching to sprint? As long as you never have to deal with customer service, everything will be hunky dory! That's the truth. Dealing with customer service will enrage you beyond anything you've felt. Some people flat out hang up on you. It's painfully obvious Sprint cuts cost by hiring morons for tier 1 and 2 level customer support.
sorry teckstud but he's right. I'm not sure where he's getting that $200-300 figure, but it's definitely a joke to pay the extra $100 up front, including tax, then wait for a rebate.
Maybe I'm the only one but I had no qualms about buying a printer from the Apple store with my last two Mac purchases and then waiting (not long) for my $100 rebate from Apple.
in NYC sprint it flaky. i can walk down the street and go to 2G, walk a few more blocks and back to 3G. but there are more spots in the subway underground where i can get a signal. speed is about the same as AT&T. once in a while i'll try to pull a youtube video from my BB and my wife's iphone and performance is usually bad on both of them.
not because of the network, but youtube has to go back to google's servers. it's not staged around the internet like a lot of other content.
Maybe I'm the only one but I had no qualms about buying a printer from the Apple store with my last two Mac purchases and then waiting (not long) for my $100 rebate from Apple.
CMON WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PHONES HERE STAY ON SUBJECT lol
but seriously, I see your point. Every company does it, it seems. Is it for marketing research or something? Is it surveying the demographic of who's buying the product? I guess they figure if they are gonna get people to willingly send that info, and for that info to be as precise as possible, they have to offer an incentive nobody with a brain will pass up...
Maybe I'm the only one but I had no qualms about buying a printer from the Apple store with my last two Mac purchases and then waiting (not long) for my $100 rebate from Apple.
The point is they are going up against the iPhone and the iPhone is $199 w/out having to submit for a mail in rebate whereas the Pre is only $199 after the mail in rebate. If you could have had those printers at the same time for the post mail-in rebate price (and not having to pay the tax on that increased price) wouldn't you rather do that?
Also, I was basing the $200-$300 on how much they charge you for the phone w/out the 2 year agreement (I couldn't remember which one it was so I went w/ the range).
Pre is following Apple with a replaceable battery?
If anything, Palm is responding to the public/corporate outcry for one.
There is no outcry. People are buying iPhones in droves, and many businesses are adopting them.
It gets the highest ratings from consumers, and business as well.
The point is they are going up against the iPhone and the iPhone is $199 w/out having to submit for a mail in rebate whereas the Pre is only $199 after the mail in rebate. If you could have had those printers at the same time for the post mail-in rebate price (and not having to pay the tax on that increased price) wouldn't you rather do that?
Also, I was basing the $200-$300 on how much they charge you for the phone w/out the 2 year agreement (I couldn't remember which one it was so I went w/ the range).
When I inquired about the iphone at best buy about 8 months ago or so, the girl working there said it was 200 with sign up, but 400 for a replacement (this is the 8gb model.) She was trying real hard to sell me on the 15 dollar insurance that nobody else but best buy offered, but said lost or stolen iphones aren't covered, neither is water damage or broken screen. Basically the phone would have to die on it's own and now I'm ranting so I'll shutup.
Normally I would have a Apple fanboy kneejerk reaction to anything non-Apple.
but having seen the Pre now, with it's more mature look and feel compared to the candy looking iPhone
did I mention a real keyboard?
might be my next phone, but alas I can't seem to give up my cheap pay as I go phone.
I got a Macbook Pro and internet, I'm not mobile enough. I live in the country.
will they last? I don't think so, the market is flooded.
but then I said that about Apple and the iPhone.
what do I know...?
You think the iPhone looks like candy and this doesn't?
CMON WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PHONES HERE STAY ON SUBJECT lol
but seriously, I see your point. Every company does it, it seems. Is it for marketing research or something? Is it surveying the demographic of who's buying the product? I guess they figure if they are gonna get people to willingly send that info, and for that info to be as precise as possible, they have to offer an incentive nobody with a brain will pass up...
Nah, it's because they market it with big huge 144pt font $199 and then in tiny 12pt font they put the asterisk and the "after mail-in rebate" part. They know there's a decent % of people that never even submit the form because they lose their receipt or just plain forget about doing it within the tiny window allowed for submitting it. You're telling people "Hey, we'll give you 33% off but you have to got through 5 steps after you get home to get it and you have to make sure you do it in the next 3 weeks." There's going to be plenty of people that don't do it and you end up raking in the moola. Not to mention those companies get the extra cash now even if they have to give it back to you in a month or two they'd rather have it now.
Ya know, an iPhone in the hand is worth 2 pre's in the bush
From what I have seen the OS/interface look to be very capable and easy to use. A lot of cues from the iPhone but quite a bit of original stuff and/or improvements.
However the Pre has some serious issues that I can see:
- Screen appears to be plastic not glass. Sounds like a it would be easy to scratch.
- No landscape mode.
- Lack of multi-touch?(pinch/zoom/etc)
- No App Store. The App Store extends the iPhone to an extent that would be hard to match.
Finally, how does it sync with a Mac? Can it use iCal/Mail/Address Book/etc? There has to be a vehicle of some sort. An iTunes equivalent. Palm Desktop software SUCKS in general and even more so on a Mac. Or it did. Even if the above problems are addressed or mitigated being able to sync with my computer is a deal breaker.Oh, and Sprint... I hate AT&T but Sprint is worse.
there are already rumors that Palm is going to have a model for Verizon later this year
I was kidding, sorry.
As an experienced iPhone developer, I seriously, seriously doubt that the apps that you'll see on the Pre will come anywhere close to what's possible on the iPhone. You aren't going to get Tiger Woods Golf written in Javascript anytime soon, believe me.
Palm do not have some secret mojo as regards battery life either - if you have multiple apps running and hitting the networking hardware (WiFi, GSM or GPS) then you are going to take a big hit on battery life. Perhaps they are hoping people will have those induction chargers dotted around the house, office and car so the thing charges up whilst you're using it... ?
it's supposed to run any app designed for previous palm devices which is around 80,000 from what i heard. and porting apps to it is supposed to be easy and 4000 iphone apps are supposed to be ready for it by next month or so
In emulation. No one has seen that yet, so we don't know how well it might work. It might be fine, and it might not.
First, I am going to BestBuy to get the Pre because they don't do mail in rebates. So it will just be $200. Also, Sprints 3G network is so much faster than AT&T's that I think it is a very smart choice to put the phone on. Plus the wireless touchstone charger is a plus! Can't wait. Finally something better than the iPhone.
Spot the astroturf
...for the 5 minutes before the battery goes dead. Until there is some massive breakthrough in battery life or power consumption, push notification is a better model.
Push notification is absolutely not a better solution. It is a very limited solution to a very limited set of problems.
For instance, it does not solve the problem of an incoming phone call interrupting Skype. Nor does it allow incoming Skype calls to get to you -- for that you have to remain logged in. Nor does it allow location-aware apps to tell people where you are. Nor can you
There is a non-multitasking solution to all of these problems, however. But when I mention it here everyone calls me an idiot. I'll say it again anyway.
The iPhone API needs a separate "PresenceKit". This is an API and associated daemon that any application can use to keep itself "alive" on the network, even when it's not running. For instance, Skype would have a library that used it which would log into the Skype network, keeping you "alive" and thereby allowing incoming calls even if you're not running Skype on the iPhone. The user could select what conditions it would log in - for instance, perhaps you want to use it with only certain WiFi's (like at home), or maybe only if you aren't logged into Skype somewhere else (like your iMac).
Chat clients, location-aware social networking apps, phone-like applications could all make use of this. Better yet, since some of the state is universal (ie, Skype only works on WiFi), the iPhone could turn off the code when those conditions are not met. The plug-ins could also tell the PresenceKit daemon how often they have to be checked, or what should happen when they start up or shut down. All of these features would allow the CPU and networking needs to be tightly controlled, and thereby maximize battery life.
I would also argue that there should be a similar plug-in for Phone and Messages (nee SMS). Skype would use the former to allow Phone to act as the UI, so I could get all my inbound and outbound "phone-like calls" from within a single interface. Or get GChat from within Messages.
Maury
It does do the multi touch. A couple designers of the iPhone helped design this phone. Remember the lawsuits that Apple was threating about the touch??? Also, their will be an app store. The 35,000 palm apps that already exist will work on the Pre, plus it was released to developers to design apps. Do you thing they wouldn't compeat? Try some more arguements.