iPhone rival Palm Pre to sell for $199 after rebate on June 6th

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  • Reply 61 of 429
    al_bundyal_bundy Posts: 1,525member
    personally i wouldn't buy it for at least 2 years or until they sell a million units, whichever comes first



    if this isn't a hit and palm goes under, you will be paying a lot of money every month for what is essentially a worthless phone
  • Reply 62 of 429
    kylemac09kylemac09 Posts: 10member
    "Spot the astroturf"



    Go to their website and call, NO MAIL IN REBATES!!! What a great idea! Also, their people don't work on commision! What a plus!

  • Reply 63 of 429
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member
    When my iPhone battery starts getting low I just pull my fully charged Kensington battery out of my pocket and plug it into the dock connector then I've got another full charge, I don't have to turn my iPhone off, I can do it in the middle of a call and I don't have to mess around juggling phone backs and batteries to do it.



    It also charges using mini USB so I can use it to charge my iPhone using a Blackberry or Motorola charger, I can also use my Navman charger in the car or a standard USB cable and a PC.



    A removable battery is no big deal.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iStink View Post


    Being able to replace the battery is an attractive feature. For example, if you're traveling for an extended period of time, and you've got a fully charged spare battery, it's nice to just pop it in and go after the first battery is drained.



    Not a key feature everyone looks for, but not a bad one either.



  • Reply 64 of 429
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post


    it's supposed to run any app designed for previous palm devices which is around 80,000 from what i heard. and porting apps to it is supposed to be easy and 4000 iphone apps are supposed to be ready for it by next month or so



    If anyone gave a hoot about Palm apps, they wouldn't be on the verge of bankruptcy.



    Being able to run iPhone apps is a good argument to buy an iPhone, not a Pre. And given the years and years of utterly crappy sync support they've had, does anyone really expect the Pre to offer a better experience than the iPhone? It's going to need to.



    Maury
  • Reply 65 of 429
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kylemac09 View Post


    First, I am going to BestBuy to get the Pre because they don't do mail in rebates. So it will just be $200. Also, Sprints 3G network is so much faster than AT&T's that I think it is a very smart choice to put the phone on. Plus the wireless touchstone charger is a plus! Can't wait. Finally something better than the iPhone.



    I was on Sprint until I bought our iPhones late last August. Their network, while much better than it was a few years before, is not that great. Certainly no better than AT&T's, and worse that Verizons'.
  • Reply 66 of 429
    teckstudteckstud Posts: 6,476member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    You may not get the rebate. That's why they offer it that way.



    Believe me, I know. I used to be on Sprint. Half of the rebates they refused to give me, even though I was very careful to do exactly what was demanded.



    With one, they said that I sent it in too late, even thought I did it online, the very same day. Another time they said that I didn't fill one out correctly, even though I had made a copy, and showed them that I did.



    Another time, I was told that I would be given a new phone for one that was broken, and that I should go back to the Sprint store I bought it from, only to have the manager of the store tell me that they didn't have to do what the Sprint telephone reps said they should.



    Believe me, Sprint is not a wonderful place to be at.



    If they're offering this with a $100 rebate, I guarantee that a fair number of people won't get it, or will have a hell of a time getting it. That's the whole point of rebates.



    It used to be that when I sent rebate info in to companies that do that for the sellers, I always got my money. But increasingly over the past few years, that hasn't been so. You really have to fight for it, and so I usually rather buy something that hasn't got a rebate, from a place that has lower prices, but not as low as it would be with a rebate. I figure that over the long haul, I'm doing just as well with a lot less frustration.



    As far as this phone goes, the only possible advantage seems to be concurrent programs?if it works as well as they say it does, which is something no one knows yet because they haven't allowed it out of the lab except for a couple of short, controlled excursions.



    The upper row of keys is too close to the overhanging bottom of the body of the device, something that was mentioned by two reporters allowed to use it for a few minutes under supervision. The screen is quite a bit smaller that the one in the iPhone. 3.1" vs 3.5" may not sound too different, but it is.



    At the same price as the current 8 GB iPhone when you, hopefully, get your rebate back from Sprint, it may not be much of a deal either. After all, despite what you say about getting rebates over Apple not giving any, you forget (conveniently, it seems) that this phone WITH the rebate costs the same as Apple's 8 GB model WITHOUT the rebate, and without the rebate (which you may not get), it costs the same as Apple's 16 GB model. Not very impressive. It's very possible that Apple will offer a $199 model with 16 GB and a $299 model with 32 GB this summer on top of that.



    If so, how are they going to make money on this without having to drop the price further? If they have to do that, someone will take a big loss. Neither Palm or Sprint can afford that now, with both losing customers at such high rates, along with currently having large losses.



    It's a marketing stategy to entice penetration. The price will probably drop in a year or less to match Apple's. And later they'll move over to Veriizon, which is pretty smart.
  • Reply 67 of 429
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    I was on Sprint until I bought our iPhones late last August. Their network, while much better than it was a few years before, is not that great. Certainly no better than AT&T's, and worse that Verizons'.



    Ever think about why both AT&T and Verizon are picking up so many customers, but why Sprint is losing so many?



    No?



    Well, think about it!
  • Reply 68 of 429
    al_bundyal_bundy Posts: 1,525member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Maury Markowitz View Post


    Push notification is absolutely not a better solution. It is a very limited solution to a very limited set of problems.



    For instance, it does not solve the problem of an incoming phone call interrupting Skype. Nor does it allow incoming Skype calls to get to you -- for that you have to remain logged in. Nor does it allow location-aware apps to tell people where you are. Nor can you



    There is a non-multitasking solution to all of these problems, however. But when I mention it here everyone calls me an idiot. I'll say it again anyway.



    The iPhone API needs a separate "PresenceKit". This is an API and associated daemon that any application can use to keep itself "alive" on the network, even when it's not running. For instance, Skype would have a library that used it which would log into the Skype network, keeping you "alive" and thereby allowing incoming calls even if you're not running Skype on the iPhone. The user could select what conditions it would log in - for instance, perhaps you want to use it with only certain WiFi's (like at home), or maybe only if you aren't logged into Skype somewhere else (like your iMac).



    Chat clients, location-aware social networking apps, phone-like applications could all make use of this. Better yet, since some of the state is universal (ie, Skype only works on WiFi), the iPhone could turn off the code when those conditions are not met. The plug-ins could also tell the PresenceKit daemon how often they have to be checked, or what should happen when they start up or shut down. All of these features would allow the CPU and networking needs to be tightly controlled, and thereby maximize battery life.



    I would also argue that there should be a similar plug-in for Phone and Messages (nee SMS). Skype would use the former to allow Phone to act as the UI, so I could get all my inbound and outbound "phone-like calls" from within a single interface. Or get GChat from within Messages.



    Maury



    no way



    apple should let you pick 2-5 apps to run in the background if you want. if they release an API for devs then everyone will be making apps to run in the background. it will be like adobe running in the background just to open acrobat faster and will kill your phone



    if there is one thing the MS DOS/Windows experience has taught us is that you never trust developers to do the right thing
  • Reply 69 of 429
    kylemac09kylemac09 Posts: 10member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    I was on Sprint until I bought our iPhones late last August. Their network, while much better than it was a few years before, is not that great. Certainly no better than AT&T's, and worse that Verizons'.









    I'm talking about 3G. Not regular coverage. With them rolling out 4G, they have the stronges and you get a hell of a lot more featues than AT&T or Verizon. Look at the tests, Sprint's 3G is faster.
  • Reply 70 of 429
    probablyprobably Posts: 139member
    I don't think $299 is good enough to stay in the game.



    Sprint didn't bet enough on this.
  • Reply 71 of 429
    kylemac09kylemac09 Posts: 10member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by probably View Post


    I don't think $299 is good enough to stay in the game.



    Sprint didn't bet enough on this.



    Best Buy doesn't do mail in rebates, buy from their.
  • Reply 72 of 429
    ghostface147ghostface147 Posts: 1,629member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gee4orce View Post


    Don't forget that the iPhone feature set that the Pre is competing against is effectively 2 years old. Last year's update was really only pretty minor, with the addition of 3G and GPS. People seem to be pre-judging the Pre (ack - awful pun) based on comparison's with LAST YEAR's iPhone. Wait and see what June brings...







    And what will June bring? A evolutionary new iPhone model? No. Groundbreaking features not found anywhere else? No. It is bringing features that have been around other free phones for awhile, and will still lack a few things that other phones have. The only thing new this June is an OS upgrade and minor enhancements. Faster processor speeds and standard storage capacity upgrades are hardly anything major.



    No background apps? Check.



    No removable battery? Check.



    A phone behind the times feature wise in less than a handful of areas? Check.



    A phone getting features that have been around for years on other phones? Check.



    Yeah, the iPhone is the best phone out there for many, but not everyone. All phones can co-exist. It's just the way it is. I would get a Pre in a flash if I wasn't so vested in the Apple ecosystem.
  • Reply 73 of 429
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    It used to be that when I sent rebate info in to companies that do that for the sellers, I always got my money. But increasingly over the past few years, that hasn't been so.



    That's because the rebates are being offered by someone else...



    Originally, rebates were a way to clear out old inventory. A company would ship their product to their retail chain in advance, who would stock them in their warehouses. If the price dropped, the retailers would end up in the uncomfortable position of having paid more for the item than they could sell it for. In this case, the manufacturer would offer a rebate, so the retailer could keep selling the item for "full price" while the user would still get the new, lower price.



    This problem has largely gone away due to better supply-side management. Retailers carefully control their stock levels and rarely end up with product backlogs (at least not on the "wrong side"). Manufacturers have also become far more efficient, so they can supply the products when the retailer needs them. The result is that there aren't these huge stockpiles in the channel any more, so the need for manufacturer rebates has fallen dramatically.



    Sprint's rebate, you'll note, is NOT a manufacturer's rebate. Obviously, because the item isn't even available yet. This is simply a way to lower the sticker shock of the item, but hopefully get some percentage of the people to not receive the rebate, and thereby increase the per-unit profit averaged over all the sales. It's a dastardly sales method, and should, IMHO, be illegal (and is in many similar cases).



    Maury
  • Reply 74 of 429
    kylemac09kylemac09 Posts: 10member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post


    And what will June bring? A evolutionary new iPhone model? No. Groundbreaking features not found anywhere else? No. It is bringing features that have been around other free phones for awhile, and will still lack a few things that other phones have. The only thing new this June is an OS upgrade and minor enhancements. Faster processor speeds and standard storage capacity upgrades are hardly anything major.



    No background apps? Check.



    No removable battery? Check.



    A phone behind the times feature wise in less than a handful of areas? Check.



    A phone getting features that have been around for years on other phones? Check.



    Yeah, the iPhone is the best phone out there for many, but not everyone. All phones can co-exist. It's just the way it is. I would get a Pre in a flash if I wasn't so vested in the Apple ecosystem.







    Pre supporting flash. Check!
  • Reply 75 of 429
    teckstudteckstud Posts: 6,476member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    There is no outcry. People are buying iPhones in droves, and many businesses are adopting them.



    It gets the highest ratings from consumers, and business as well.



    I beg to differ. Any review of iPhone or any product for that matter show both pros and cons.

    Always - ALWAYS -in the con column is "NO REPLACEABLE BATTERY".
  • Reply 76 of 429
    kylemac09kylemac09 Posts: 10member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Maury Markowitz View Post


    That's because the rebates are being offered by someone else...



    Originally, rebates were a way to clear out old inventory. A company would ship their product to their retail chain in advance, who would stock them in their warehouses. If the price dropped, the retailers would end up in the uncomfortable position of having paid more for the item than they could sell it for. In this case, the manufacturer would offer a rebate, so the retailer could keep selling the item for "full price" while the user would still get the new, lower price.



    This problem has largely gone away due to better supply-side management. Retailers carefully control their stock levels and rarely end up with product backlogs (at least not on the "wrong side"). Manufacturers have also become far more efficient, so they can supply the products when the retailer needs them. The result is that there aren't these huge stockpiles in the channel any more, so the need for manufacturer rebates has fallen dramatically.



    Sprint's rebate, you'll note, is NOT a manufacturer's rebate. Obviously, because the item isn't even available yet. This is simply a way to lower the sticker shock of the item, but hopefully get some percentage of the people to not receive the rebate, and thereby increase the per-unit profit averaged over all the sales. It's a dastardly sales method, and should, IMHO, be illegal (and is in many similar cases).



    Maury



    Why deal with mail in rebates? Best Buy doesn't do mail in rebates! They are sooo much better than the Sprint stoes and their people are not rude!
  • Reply 77 of 429
    istinkistink Posts: 250member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bigmc6000 View Post


    Nah, it's because they market it with big huge 144pt font $199 and then in tiny 12pt font they put the asterisk and the "after mail-in rebate" part. They know there's a decent % of people that never even submit the form because they lose their receipt or just plain forget about doing it within the tiny window allowed for submitting it. You're telling people "Hey, we'll give you 33% off but you have to got through 5 steps after you get home to get it and you have to make sure you do it in the next 3 weeks." There's going to be plenty of people that don't do it and you end up raking in the moola. Not to mention those companies get the extra cash now even if they have to give it back to you in a month or two they'd rather have it now.



    Ya know, an iPhone in the hand is worth 2 pre's in the bush



    I think you're over complicating things in your mind. Rebates are really easy. In fact, all I had to do was print out my receipt from sprint's website, along with the rebate form (also from sprint's website) and mail it in from work here. The stamp cost like a a quarter or something? I mean it's REALLY not that hard, and I think a lot more people do it than you think. Proof of purchase for a phone is easy to track down with Sprint's website. If anyone doesn't do the rebate, it's because they simply have that much money to blow. Trust me, it's not as bad as you think.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gee4orce View Post


    Don't forget that the iPhone feature set that the Pre is competing against is effectively 2 years old. Last year's update was really only pretty minor, with the addition of 3G and GPS. People seem to be pre-judging the Pre (ack - awful pun) based on comparison's with LAST YEAR's iPhone. Wait and see what June brings...



    As an experienced iPhone developer, I seriously, seriously doubt that the apps that you'll see on the Pre will come anywhere close to what's possible on the iPhone. You aren't going to get Tiger Woods Golf written in Javascript anytime soon, believe me.



    Palm do not have some secret mojo as regards battery life either - if you have multiple apps running and hitting the networking hardware (WiFi, GSM or GPS) then you are going to take a big hit on battery life. Perhaps they are hoping people will have those induction chargers dotted around the house, office and car so the thing charges up whilst you're using it... ?



    They gotta start somewhere lol. The iphone didn't have a ton of apps written for it right away either.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kylemac09 View Post


    [*]Screen appears to be plastic not glass. Sounds like a it would be easy to scratch.[*]No landscape mode.[*]Lack of multi-touch?(pinch/zoom/etc)[*]No App Store. The App Store extends the iPhone to an extent that would be hard to



    It does do the multi touch. A couple designers of the iPhone helped design this phone. Remember the lawsuits that Apple was threating about the touch??? Also, their will be an app store. The 35,000 palm apps that already exist will work on the Pre, plus it was released to developers to design apps. Do you thing they wouldn't compeat? Try some more arguements.



    I always wondered how that keyboard would come in handy if you were browsing the web in landscape mode. Typing sideways seems like a moronic design.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


    When my iPhone battery starts getting low I just pull my fully charged Kensington battery out of my pocket and plug it into the dock connector then I've got another full charge, I don't have to turn my iPhone off, I can do it in the middle of a call and I don't have to mess around juggling phone backs and batteries to do it.



    It also charges using mini USB so I can use it to charge my iPhone using a Blackberry or Motorola charger, I can also use my Navman charger in the car or a standard USB cable and a PC.



    A removable battery is no big deal.



    I never said it was a big deal lol. I think the benefits of having a removable battery are obvious, but not heavy enough for it to weigh in on most consumer's purchasing decision (unless the salesperson convinces them its a bigger featyre than it is.)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post


    no way



    apple should let you pick 2-5 apps to run in the background if you want. if they release an API for devs then everyone will be making apps to run in the background. it will be like adobe running in the background just to open acrobat faster and will kill your phone



    if there is one thing the MS DOS/Windows experience has taught us is that you never trust developers to do the right thing



    the reasoning seems to be that battery life gets drained, but then I think, does EVERY app need access to the radio? It can't just lie dormant in the background? I've got plenty of apps running in the background on my touch pro, and the battery life is the same as if I didn't run them...
  • Reply 78 of 429
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    You think the iPhone looks like candy and this doesn't?



    Indeed - it looks like the result of eating too much candy...
  • Reply 79 of 429
    adjeiadjei Posts: 738member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by GTL215 View Post


    so for an 8gb iPhone, you'd rather shell out $300 up front, then wait for your 100 bucks to come back in the mail....rather than just pay $200 and be done? Makes sense.....



    Didn't the Pre CEO (or sprint CEO, i forget) make some snively comment such as, "why would we price it the same as an iPhone when we have the better product"? HA what a shithead. Is a mail-in rebate his idea of pricing the Pre higher? Gimmie a break.



    That's what I'm saying, when you go into the store to buy the phone you have to have 300 dollars in hand and not 200 dollars like some want you believe, screw a rebate, I'm more concerned about how much I'll play in the store instead of a rebate.
  • Reply 80 of 429
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post


    apple should let you pick 2-5 apps to run in the background if you want. if they release an API for devs then everyone will be making apps to run in the background.



    In my post I clearly, and in depth, described a system that had no multitasking and didn't need it. Did you actually read it?



    Maury
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