I have 3 beige G3s, an original iMac (Rev. B/233) and aPopwerBook Wallstreet/233 in my fleet. The PowerBook and iMac run Jaguar just fine. The iMac feels slightly faster due to it's hardware accellerated graphics chip and speedier harddrive. Both machines are rock solid in operation and quite acceptable in performance.
The beige G3s give me a big headache. I just cannot install any flavor of Jaguar on them. (I have Client and Server licenses) One G3 with Rev. C ROM installs Jaguar Client and will actually boot it from HD as well. the other two Rev. A machines refuse. One manages to install after about 6-8 hours depending on luck, overall humidty and moon phase. It will complete the installation but gives me a "can't open:" message from openFirmware after reboot. The other one just dies during installation with a black screen, takes ethernet down and processor halt. Nothing...
ALL machines are known good hardware that worked flawlessly with Mac OS 8.1 up to 9.2.2 including 10.1.5 (Server as well.) Never had any problems with them. I've removed all non stock hardware like, additional HDs and PCI cards. Only 384MB RAM that is non stock config, but known good and swapped as well for testing purpose. Neither HFS+ nor UFS helps. HD is freshly formatted, inited and written all zeros numerous times. Swapped HD as well just to be sure.
Nothing could make me successfully install Jaguar on these machines yet. I've checked my CD-ROm and DVD-ROM drives as well as installation media and they don't give any read errors...
Please assist in getting Jaguar to run on beige...
<strong>Please assist in getting Jaguar to run on beige...
Greetings from a nearly desperate monsterjaeger</strong><hr></blockquote>
Why don't you take the hard drives from the Revision As, put them in the Revision C, install Jag, and then put them back in their original machine? Is there any reason this wouldn't work?
I've tried installing to the original HD from those beiges in my G4 Dual at work. Worked like a charm. Installed, booted form HD and configured. Fit that HD back into the beige and it gives a white OpenFirmware screen telling you it "can't open:" [the boot device]. it doesn't work. I've tried installing X.2 Client and updating to Server, but the Client version gives me the same trouble. No matter if Rev. C ROM or Rev. A ROM.
I used to know how to tell the diff. Refresh my memory and I will go look!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Just open AppleSystemProfiler and have a look at the Production information. Under ROM Revision you should see:
$77D.40F2 for a Rev. A ROM
$77D.45F1 for a Rev. B ROM
$77D.45F2 for a Rev. C ROM
You can find the info in Apple's <a href="http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=24924&SaveKCWindowURL=http:% 2F%2Fkbase.info.apple.com%2Fcgi-bin%2FWebObjects%2Fkbase.woa%2Fwa%2FSaveKCToHomePa ge&searchMode=Expert&kbhost=kbase.info.apple.com&s howButton=false&randomValue=100&showSurvey=tr" target="_blank">kBase Article 24924</a>.
If you have a hard drive over 8 GB in size and have more than one partition on it, the partition containing OS X must be within the first 8 GB of space or you will not be able to run OS X.
Non-Apple upgrades and peripherals (such as unsupported USB devices, replacement drives, and third-party memory) may cause problems when installing or booting into Mac OS X.
Be sure to read and follow Apple's "Read Before You Install" install instructions to increase the likelihood of getting OS X installed and running on the first try. <hr></blockquote>
Today I made my way through the Apple Support Fora. There are over 300 postings discussing problems with beige G3s and the installation of Jaguar.
Seems Apple never ever tested this officially supported installation.
Three major trouble issues with beige:
Will go black during install and just die.
Will complete installation and drop into OF after reboot saying "can't open" or
Will complete installation and drop into OF saying "no bootable HFS partition".
Most positive results seem to be achieved with Rev C ROMs on DT and MT models alike. MTs seem to sometimes show a positive install with Rev.B ROMs as well. Whereas Rev.A in general are extremely rare to be lucky.
I'm only counting reports on correct attempts to install. (first 8GB, etc...)
Just open AppleSystemProfiler and have a look at the Production information. Under ROM Revision you should see:
$77D.40F2 for a Rev. A ROM
$77D.45F1 for a Rev. B ROM
$77D.45F2 for a Rev. C ROM
You can find the info in Apple's <a href="http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=24924&SaveKCWindowURL=http:% 2F%2Fkbase.info.apple.com%2Fcgi-bin%2FWebObjects%2Fkbase.woa%2Fwa%2FSaveKCToHomePa ge&searchMode=Expert&kbhost=kbase.info.apple.com&s howButton=false&randomValue=100&showSurvey=tr" target="_blank">kBase Article 24924</a>.</strong><hr></blockquote>
OK, stupid question, but how can I check the ROM version with the Apple System Profiler in Jag? It doesn't display any ROM info like the Profiler in OS 9 did. Am I missing something?
you can't do this in Jaguar, you unfortunately have to boot into Mac OS 9.x to do this. Classic will not report the correct ROM version.
I want to add, that I have tried installing jaguar (and Server) on my beige G3s (Rev. A/B/C) onto a SCIS disc as well, and can tell you that it didn't work either. Some other quirks showed up, like a complete freeze without a black screen soemway during the installation. (Hey that's a new one...)
Resumée: No way any flavor af Jaguar will work on my beiges... I have posted this to <a href="http://www.apple.com/macosx/feedback/"; target="_blank">Apple Mac OS X Feedback</a> and hope for an answer...
OK, stupid question, but how can I check the ROM version with the Apple System Profiler in Jag? It doesn't display any ROM info like the Profiler in OS 9 did. Am I missing something?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Click on the Apple upper left, select About this Mac, click on the more info button in the About this Mac window, read Boot ROM info. For example the Boot ROM info for my Cube reports 4.1.9f1 which is correct.
Comments
Report on Jaguar forthcoming.
I doubt I'd ever want to try 3D games or photoshop-like apps, but for Mail, Explorer, Quicken, etc.... X.2 does just fine on these machines.
Mmm, reminds me of Bill Bryson. The University of Somewhere Cold. Probably from I'm a Stranger Here Myself.
The beige G3s give me a big headache. I just cannot install any flavor of Jaguar on them. (I have Client and Server licenses) One G3 with Rev. C ROM installs Jaguar Client and will actually boot it from HD as well. the other two Rev. A machines refuse. One manages to install after about 6-8 hours depending on luck, overall humidty and moon phase. It will complete the installation but gives me a "can't open:" message from openFirmware after reboot. The other one just dies during installation with a black screen, takes ethernet down and processor halt. Nothing...
ALL machines are known good hardware that worked flawlessly with Mac OS 8.1 up to 9.2.2 including 10.1.5 (Server as well.) Never had any problems with them. I've removed all non stock hardware like, additional HDs and PCI cards. Only 384MB RAM that is non stock config, but known good and swapped as well for testing purpose. Neither HFS+ nor UFS helps. HD is freshly formatted, inited and written all zeros numerous times. Swapped HD as well just to be sure.
Nothing could make me successfully install Jaguar on these machines yet. I've checked my CD-ROm and DVD-ROM drives as well as installation media and they don't give any read errors...
Please assist in getting Jaguar to run on beige...
Greetings from a nearly desperate monsterjaeger
No QE
Would any of those machines have a Rev. A ROM in them?
I don't recall the wording of the alert, but it came up before any of the install even started.
[ 09-09-2002: Message edited by: MrBillData ]</p>
<strong>Hi dstranathan.
Would any of those machines have a Rev. A ROM in them?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I used to know how to tell the diff. Refresh my memory and I will go look!
:0)
<strong>Please assist in getting Jaguar to run on beige...
Greetings from a nearly desperate monsterjaeger</strong><hr></blockquote>
Why don't you take the hard drives from the Revision As, put them in the Revision C, install Jag, and then put them back in their original machine? Is there any reason this wouldn't work?
Any other suggestions?
<strong>
I used to know how to tell the diff. Refresh my memory and I will go look!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Just open AppleSystemProfiler and have a look at the Production information. Under ROM Revision you should see:
$77D.40F2 for a Rev. A ROM
$77D.45F1 for a Rev. B ROM
$77D.45F2 for a Rev. C ROM
You can find the info in Apple's <a href="http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=24924&SaveKCWindowURL=http:% 2F%2Fkbase.info.apple.com%2Fcgi-bin%2FWebObjects%2Fkbase.woa%2Fwa%2FSaveKCToHomePa ge&searchMode=Expert&kbhost=kbase.info.apple.com&s howButton=false&randomValue=100&showSurvey=tr" target="_blank">kBase Article 24924</a>.
[quote] Mac OS X
If you have a hard drive over 8 GB in size and have more than one partition on it, the partition containing OS X must be within the first 8 GB of space or you will not be able to run OS X.
Non-Apple upgrades and peripherals (such as unsupported USB devices, replacement drives, and third-party memory) may cause problems when installing or booting into Mac OS X.
Be sure to read and follow Apple's "Read Before You Install" install instructions to increase the likelihood of getting OS X installed and running on the first try. <hr></blockquote>
zip
Seems Apple never ever tested this officially supported installation.
Three major trouble issues with beige:
Will go black during install and just die.
Will complete installation and drop into OF after reboot saying "can't open" or
Will complete installation and drop into OF saying "no bootable HFS partition".
Most positive results seem to be achieved with Rev C ROMs on DT and MT models alike. MTs seem to sometimes show a positive install with Rev.B ROMs as well. Whereas Rev.A in general are extremely rare to be lucky.
I'm only counting reports on correct attempts to install. (first 8GB, etc...)
<strong>
Just open AppleSystemProfiler and have a look at the Production information. Under ROM Revision you should see:
$77D.40F2 for a Rev. A ROM
$77D.45F1 for a Rev. B ROM
$77D.45F2 for a Rev. C ROM
You can find the info in Apple's <a href="http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=24924&SaveKCWindowURL=http:% 2F%2Fkbase.info.apple.com%2Fcgi-bin%2FWebObjects%2Fkbase.woa%2Fwa%2FSaveKCToHomePa ge&searchMode=Expert&kbhost=kbase.info.apple.com&s howButton=false&randomValue=100&showSurvey=tr" target="_blank">kBase Article 24924</a>.</strong><hr></blockquote>
OK, stupid question, but how can I check the ROM version with the Apple System Profiler in Jag? It doesn't display any ROM info like the Profiler in OS 9 did. Am I missing something?
you can't do this in Jaguar, you unfortunately have to boot into Mac OS 9.x to do this. Classic will not report the correct ROM version.
I want to add, that I have tried installing jaguar (and Server) on my beige G3s (Rev. A/B/C) onto a SCIS disc as well, and can tell you that it didn't work either. Some other quirks showed up, like a complete freeze without a black screen soemway during the installation. (Hey that's a new one...)
Resumée: No way any flavor af Jaguar will work on my beiges... I have posted this to <a href="http://www.apple.com/macosx/feedback/"; target="_blank">Apple Mac OS X Feedback</a> and hope for an answer...
<strong>
OK, stupid question, but how can I check the ROM version with the Apple System Profiler in Jag? It doesn't display any ROM info like the Profiler in OS 9 did. Am I missing something?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Click on the Apple upper left, select About this Mac, click on the more info button in the About this Mac window, read Boot ROM info. For example the Boot ROM info for my Cube reports 4.1.9f1 which is correct.
[ 09-12-2002: Message edited by: Brendon ]</p>
<strong>Whos got the link to that PCI Quartz Extreme hack for the Rage ATI 128 or Radeon PCI cards?
:0)</strong><hr></blockquote>
The discussion on Ars:
<a href="http://arstechnica.infopop.net/OpenTopic/page?a=tpc&s=50009562&f=8300945231&m=7390915135"; target="_blank">http://arstechnica.infopop.net/OpenTopic/page?a=tpc&s=50009562&f=8300945231&m=7390915135</a>;
I'll be trying this soon...