Did you puposely miss the OLED part? Giggle, tee hee rotflmao, haha, who who, lolly poppy gee golly swell, (rolls eyes. Whatever.
Anyway, as someone that thinks the dune is to tech what a candid is to a lightbulb, depending on what services they offer, I may not renew mobile golly gee. Only reason I have it is due to having a mac email. Not me. Ical is okay but it's still buggy, doesn't work as advertised.
Quote:
Originally Posted by godrifle
...it's also beautiful. So, Microsoft beats Apple to the punch with a beautiful device that is multitouch and while it carries the moniker of HD it is actually lower resolution that iPod Touch.
Did you puposely miss the OLED part? Giggle, tee hee rotflmao, haha, who who, lolly poppy gee golly swell, (rolls eyes. Whatever.
Anyway, as someone that thinks the dune is to tech what a candid is to a lightbulb, depending on what services they offer, I may not renew mobile golly gee. Only reason I have it is due to having a mac email. Not me. Ical is okay but it's still buggy, doesn't work as advertised.
MS shouldn't use OLED screen technology as a major focus to sell the device on. MOST users could give a shit about what kind of screen it is, let alone know the difference between them.
logo in the right spot. black bottom. glass front... anyone see it?
i am remembering something from the first apple keynote i ever saw, "redmond, start your copiers"
I love apple products but Redmond start you copiers???
Google sun operating system and you will see more than 5 yard old, spotlight, quicklook and many features found in Leopard. Get a grip. Stop drinking the marketing koolaid.
It's project looking glass by sun micro systems.
LOWER LEFT (Sun Micro Systems), a few minutes in when they get to the live portion of the streaming - you will see things that you may have thought Apple came up with in Leopard, even I was surprised.
The issue here is simple: Apple bet the company that iPhone would 1) sell 2) need to be about software.
So they spent three years paring down their OS to the point at which it would run on the device. They basically wrote a new operating system in the meantime, made QuickTime X, and built an SDK that is rich and versatile.
That is no mean feat.
Microsoft have pulled together the old scraps in some small office in Redmond to try and create a device that works, but has no future potential.
The issue here: Microsoft didn't bet the company on their mobile businesses. Apple did.
I bought a first gen iPod touch on release day but I'd seriously consider replacing it with a Zune HD.
I'm one of those rare people who would like a Zune Pass-type subscription. I love music and I love discovering new bands. Having access to 5 million tracks would be fantastic for parties too. If Microsoft could combine it with Apple's Genius playlist idea then it would be the killer feature.
I also hate how Apple charge for software updates. It's not much money but it's the principle of the matter. When everyone else is giving something away for free, even $10 suddenly looks very expensive. Microsoft have made a lot of mistakes with the Zune but at least the software updates, even major ones, are free.
However, I have major doubts over the Zune desktop software and any browser included on the Zune HD. If Microsoft can prove me wrong on these two points, I might be ready to jump ship.
100% agree. But what if, just a small, what if, and msft is preparing the way for something bigger? We all know millions of iPhone contracts expire soon, windows is known to have touch in version 7, it runs much, much faster than vista, we all know I.T. Departmnents are going to upgrade, the palm pre looks pretty good, msft has finally found advertising that works and could be the table setting for a really bug campaign, winows mobile 6.5 looks really really good, leaps beyond present mobile and msft one time went after Google. Not sure about you but all that msft needs us one good company ( ala google/yahoo), a phone with mobile 6.5 and open source apps and they could be off and running and while I do have a National Marketing and Promotional background, its hard to see Microsoft doing something right, it has to be all that red tape that someone spoke about earlier - as they mentioned there are a few with blogs that work at Redmond and they state it's nearly impossible to see anything come to fruition. A shame really.
Personally, I think someone should run with Project Looking Glass
Bottom Left, start the streaming and about a few minutes in, when they talk to a live audience, you will see things that we now see on Leopard, very cool Operating System.
The issue here is simple: Apple bet the company that iPhone would 1) sell 2) need to be about software.
So they spent three years paring down their OS to the point at which it would run on the device. They basically wrote a new operating system in the meantime, made QuickTime X, and built an SDK that is rich and versatile.
That is no mean feat.
Microsoft have pulled together the old scraps in some small office in Redmond to try and create a device that works, but has no future potential.
The issue here: Microsoft didn't bet the company on their mobile businesses. Apple did.
100% agree. But what if, just a small, what if, and msft is preparing the way for something bigger? We all know millions of iPhone contracts expire soon, windows is known to have touch in version 7, it runs much, much faster than vista, we all know I.T. Departmnents are going to upgrade, the palm pre looks pretty good, msft has finally found advertising that works and could be the table setting for a really bug campaign, winows mobile 6.5 looks really really good, leaps beyond present mobile and msft one time went after Google. Not sure about you but all that msft needs us one good company ( ala google/yahoo), a phone with mobile 6.5 and open source apps and they could be off and running in a heart beat at a time when apple is the most vunerable. You heard it here first. My background was National Marketing and Promotional Director.
Peace.
All of that is all well and good, except that WinMob 6.5 is hardly "leaps beyond present mobile."
It's a stopgap release with some touch stuff bolted on until they can get WinMob 7 out the door. The iPhone revolution very obviously caught MS napping, and they're struggling to make their mobile offerings relevant.
They are not remotely in a position to spring some kind of huge advancement that will shake up the market.
They are not remotely in a position to spring some kind of huge advancement that will shake up the market.
Not even close. Lest people have already forgotten MSFT's last round of pending layoffs. Microsoft really doesn't understand anything well beyond Office Suites and Desktop/Server OS.
No they aren't going to challenge Google for advertising even if they buy Yahoo.
I seriously doubt they can overcome Apple and Google's momentum with iPhone and Android.
Microsoft has done nothing but follow Mozilla, Opera and Webkit for browser functionality.
As far as applicable innovation the company is quickly becoming irrelevant beyond their core competency and frankly with PDF being a great document interchange format for read only I don't even know if MS Office is all that much of a necessity outside of stodgy businesses.
Folks this game is almost over. It's Apple, Mozilla and Opera defining the nextgen HTML5 spec.
Zune got crushed the the iPod and Window Mobile is going to get crushed by the iPhone. Do any of you honestly think Microsoft is going come roaring back? It took them 6 years and counting to deliver a suitable XP OS sucessor. They aren't exactly burning up the charts.
When Windows 1.0 was introduced in 1985 Microsoft had ZERO SHARE in the market for GUI-based operating systems. Obviously their persistence and aggressive marketing has paid off well over the past few decades.
In view of this history it's really silly to claim that Microsoft should just drop out of the music player market because their current market share is low. History can repeat itself.
they rode on the success of DOS and the IBM PC and clones.
IBM was the one that gave them access to the PC market
I agree with Addabox. Really, there is no comparison between Windows Mobile and iPhone OS. You can gloss one up but after the main screen is gone, its still just an older version of Windows Mobile with a new number.
6.5 was like changing the appearance of the dock on the Mac - maybe it looks good but what does it matter? Even then, the Mac dock is always there, and that honeycomb isn't everywhere.
Windows 7 will be a big win for Microsoft, but the issue is simple: in mobile, Apple have a focus on one device - the iPhone. Windows Mobile has split their focus over hundreds of devices. You can't generate buzz over a product that only ships with the device, is rarely if ever upgraded, and is found on every type of device around. General marketing no-no. Don't split consumer focus over lots of products. Create a focus.
Microsoft can't.
Apple has in the phone business: iPhone
Apple has in the PMP business: iPod Touch (though to a lesser extent than the iPhone)
From a marketing perspective, WinMo is a disaster. It doesn't matter what Microsoft are doing now. They're just clawing back on the major lack of confidence from Vista. They don't have key concepts down: Integration, Easy of use, Simplicity, Focus.
One other point to make: Its hardly important to point out touch as an issue. Remember, this is basically a hacked Windows CE. It has nothing to do with Windows 7, nor any other major release of Windows. Touch in CE and Touch in Windows 7 will not be integrated, no upgrade/compromise/middleground between the two. They are fundamentally separate technologies.
Apple never made that error. The iPhone OS is Mac OS X based - to the point they could get iPhone's entire touch call stack and UIKit on the Mac itself without any issue (and EXTREMELY simply) and create the iPhone simulator. They are fundamentally the same OS. They have a lot of potential for middle ground.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiimamac
100% agree. But what if, just a small, what if, and msft is preparing the way for something bigger? We all know millions of iPhone contracts expire soon, windows is known to have touch in version 7, it runs much, much faster than vista, we all know I.T. Departmnents are going to upgrade, the palm pre looks pretty good, msft has finally found advertising that works and could be the table setting for a really bug campaign, winows mobile 6.5 looks really really good, leaps beyond present mobile and msft one time went after Google. Not sure about you but all that msft needs us one good company ( ala google/yahoo), a phone with mobile 6.5 and open source apps and they could be off and running in a heart beat at a time when apple is the most vunerable. You heard it here first. My background was National Marketing and Promotional Director.
I'm surprised Microsoft they didn't insist on a huge hard drive. Capacity would have been a clear opportunity to differentiate from the iPod touch. Aside from size and battery life advantages the app store and touch screen technology are the only real leverage Apple has to up-sell people to lower capacity solid state drives, which are decidedly more buck for your bang than their hard drive counterparts.
Apple could easily have dropped the iPod classic by now if they just made an iPod touch with a ridiculously-sized hard drive. Of course that gives people less incentive to upgrade next year because 240GB is only more useful than 120GB to people who actually own more than 120GB of portable media. In a few years this probably won't matter anyway.
Since Apple have had no worthy competitors in this space they have been allowed to bridge the transition rather elegantly.
MS shouldn't use OLED screen technology as a major focus to sell the device on. MOST users could give a s**t about what kind of screen it is, let alone know the difference between them.
I can see where this is going. Most people may not care about obscure acronyms, but they know HD stands for a clearer picture.
OLED may not mean a thing, but the same goes for screen resolution and ppi. It is looks and perception that matters.
Is MS counting on OLED to fool customers into believing the Zune is actually HD?
I think its success will depend how much they can make the device another PSP or DS but linked to games with the XBox. It needs to differentiate itself from the Ipod touch.
There's just little things where there is not an attention to detail. There are screws for a start. Yes that would make it easier to service. But who is going to service an mp3 player or really want to replace a battery? If the screen shots are true then you can see that the words sometimes goes off the screen. That should not happen.
Microsoft are showing some staying power in the market. But there has not been full hearted efforts at it either. They need to risk more or the device will only be a talking point to most people, not something they use
I actually think the exposed-screws look is very modern and sturdy-looking. Panasonic did a similar thing with a recent Lumix camera. I think still prefer the whimsical (read: how the fuck did they put this together?) look of many of Apple's products though.
I think its success will depend how much they can make the device another PSP or DS but linked to games with the XBox. It needs to differentiate itself from the Ipod touch.
There's just little things where there is not an attention to detail. There are screws for a start. Yes that would make it easier to service. But who is going to service an mp3 player or really want to replace a battery? If the screen shots are true then you can see that the words sometimes goes off the screen. That should not happen.
Microsoft are showing some staying power in the market. But there has not been full hearted efforts at it either. They need to risk more or the device will only be a talking point to most people, not something they use
That's another thing. MS clearly wants to get some kind of integration going across their consumer products. They've trying to pull together the UIs on the Xbox, Zune, and Windows Media Center, and presumably this will extend to WinMo 7 and future WinCE devices.
However, WinCE, WinMo, Xbox and Zune are all different operating systems, although Zune and WinCE are apparently merging, at least somewhat. Windows Media Center is an app for Xp/Vista/Windows 7 that needs to play nice with everybody.
Whereas Apple is basically deploying OS X across every part of their product line, MS has got this hodge-podge of operating systems, all of which at one time pretended to be desktop Windows except for Xbox which is now apparently the standard for what everything else ought to look like. Or vice versa. Or something.
I'm sure they can get stuff to work together more or less, but it's such a conceptual muddle I wonder if they can explain what's happening to their customers. The Zune marketplace takes over for the Xbox, which is different from the new app store for WinMo, all of which leaves all previous Zunes orphaned, maybe, but maybe they can all talk to Media Center? Is Zune an extender or extendee? Hello? Is anybody still listening?
All this stuff was developed for completely different markets, and now that MS has noticed that maybe some kind of convergence is going on, by god they're going to put everything in a room together and squeeze till it works. Maybe they can get J Allard to stand around looking hip and it will all make sense.
Apple has OS X and iTunes. Buy stuff, sync stuff, move files from device to device. The end.
If you've never seen a modern OLED screen in action, you won't know what the fuss is about.
I didn't until a couple of days ago when a friend showed me his new Samsung phone with a 3.7" OLED screen. I thought the display on my iPod touch was pretty good but the difference was staggering. The colours looked so much more vivid and lifelike on the OLED screen. My iPod touch's screen is incredibly pixelated and washed out in comparison.
Do consumers care about acronyms? No. Do they care about picture quality? Yes! I certainly do. I fully expect the new iPhone (and hopefully iPod touch) will have an OLED screen.
Comments
Anyway, as someone that thinks the dune is to tech what a candid is to a lightbulb, depending on what services they offer, I may not renew mobile golly gee. Only reason I have it is due to having a mac email. Not me. Ical is okay but it's still buggy, doesn't work as advertised.
...it's also beautiful. So, Microsoft beats Apple to the punch with a beautiful device that is multitouch and while it carries the moniker of HD it is actually lower resolution that iPod Touch.
Awesome!
Did you puposely miss the OLED part? Giggle, tee hee rotflmao, haha, who who, lolly poppy gee golly swell, (rolls eyes. Whatever.
Anyway, as someone that thinks the dune is to tech what a candid is to a lightbulb, depending on what services they offer, I may not renew mobile golly gee. Only reason I have it is due to having a mac email. Not me. Ical is okay but it's still buggy, doesn't work as advertised.
MS shouldn't use OLED screen technology as a major focus to sell the device on. MOST users could give a shit about what kind of screen it is, let alone know the difference between them.
logo in the right spot. black bottom. glass front... anyone see it?
i am remembering something from the first apple keynote i ever saw, "redmond, start your copiers"
I love apple products but Redmond start you copiers???
Google sun operating system and you will see more than 5 yard old, spotlight, quicklook and many features found in Leopard. Get a grip. Stop drinking the marketing koolaid.
It's project looking glass by sun micro systems.
LOWER LEFT (Sun Micro Systems), a few minutes in when they get to the live portion of the streaming - you will see things that you may have thought Apple came up with in Leopard, even I was surprised.
http://www.sun.com/software/looking_glass/
So they spent three years paring down their OS to the point at which it would run on the device. They basically wrote a new operating system in the meantime, made QuickTime X, and built an SDK that is rich and versatile.
That is no mean feat.
Microsoft have pulled together the old scraps in some small office in Redmond to try and create a device that works, but has no future potential.
The issue here: Microsoft didn't bet the company on their mobile businesses. Apple did.
Apple will win hands down.
I'm one of those rare people who would like a Zune Pass-type subscription. I love music and I love discovering new bands. Having access to 5 million tracks would be fantastic for parties too. If Microsoft could combine it with Apple's Genius playlist idea then it would be the killer feature.
I also hate how Apple charge for software updates. It's not much money but it's the principle of the matter. When everyone else is giving something away for free, even $10 suddenly looks very expensive. Microsoft have made a lot of mistakes with the Zune but at least the software updates, even major ones, are free.
However, I have major doubts over the Zune desktop software and any browser included on the Zune HD. If Microsoft can prove me wrong on these two points, I might be ready to jump ship.
Personally, I think someone should run with Project Looking Glass
Bottom Left, start the streaming and about a few minutes in, when they talk to a live audience, you will see things that we now see on Leopard, very cool Operating System.
http://www.sun.com/software/looking_glass/
Peace.
The issue here is simple: Apple bet the company that iPhone would 1) sell 2) need to be about software.
So they spent three years paring down their OS to the point at which it would run on the device. They basically wrote a new operating system in the meantime, made QuickTime X, and built an SDK that is rich and versatile.
That is no mean feat.
Microsoft have pulled together the old scraps in some small office in Redmond to try and create a device that works, but has no future potential.
The issue here: Microsoft didn't bet the company on their mobile businesses. Apple did.
Apple will win hands down.
100% agree. But what if, just a small, what if, and msft is preparing the way for something bigger? We all know millions of iPhone contracts expire soon, windows is known to have touch in version 7, it runs much, much faster than vista, we all know I.T. Departmnents are going to upgrade, the palm pre looks pretty good, msft has finally found advertising that works and could be the table setting for a really bug campaign, winows mobile 6.5 looks really really good, leaps beyond present mobile and msft one time went after Google. Not sure about you but all that msft needs us one good company ( ala google/yahoo), a phone with mobile 6.5 and open source apps and they could be off and running in a heart beat at a time when apple is the most vunerable. You heard it here first. My background was National Marketing and Promotional Director.
Peace.
All of that is all well and good, except that WinMob 6.5 is hardly "leaps beyond present mobile."
It's a stopgap release with some touch stuff bolted on until they can get WinMob 7 out the door. The iPhone revolution very obviously caught MS napping, and they're struggling to make their mobile offerings relevant.
They are not remotely in a position to spring some kind of huge advancement that will shake up the market.
How will Apple ever be able to catch up? Microsoft has pwnd Apple.
I'm guessing they put an OLED display in the next touch. Hardly difficult is it?
They are not remotely in a position to spring some kind of huge advancement that will shake up the market.
Not even close. Lest people have already forgotten MSFT's last round of pending layoffs. Microsoft really doesn't understand anything well beyond Office Suites and Desktop/Server OS.
No they aren't going to challenge Google for advertising even if they buy Yahoo.
I seriously doubt they can overcome Apple and Google's momentum with iPhone and Android.
Microsoft has done nothing but follow Mozilla, Opera and Webkit for browser functionality.
As far as applicable innovation the company is quickly becoming irrelevant beyond their core competency and frankly with PDF being a great document interchange format for read only I don't even know if MS Office is all that much of a necessity outside of stodgy businesses.
Folks this game is almost over. It's Apple, Mozilla and Opera defining the nextgen HTML5 spec.
Zune got crushed the the iPod and Window Mobile is going to get crushed by the iPhone. Do any of you honestly think Microsoft is going come roaring back? It took them 6 years and counting to deliver a suitable XP OS sucessor. They aren't exactly burning up the charts.
When Windows 1.0 was introduced in 1985 Microsoft had ZERO SHARE in the market for GUI-based operating systems. Obviously their persistence and aggressive marketing has paid off well over the past few decades.
In view of this history it's really silly to claim that Microsoft should just drop out of the music player market because their current market share is low. History can repeat itself.
they rode on the success of DOS and the IBM PC and clones.
IBM was the one that gave them access to the PC market
6.5 was like changing the appearance of the dock on the Mac - maybe it looks good but what does it matter? Even then, the Mac dock is always there, and that honeycomb isn't everywhere.
Windows 7 will be a big win for Microsoft, but the issue is simple: in mobile, Apple have a focus on one device - the iPhone. Windows Mobile has split their focus over hundreds of devices. You can't generate buzz over a product that only ships with the device, is rarely if ever upgraded, and is found on every type of device around. General marketing no-no. Don't split consumer focus over lots of products. Create a focus.
Microsoft can't.
Apple has in the phone business: iPhone
Apple has in the PMP business: iPod Touch (though to a lesser extent than the iPhone)
From a marketing perspective, WinMo is a disaster. It doesn't matter what Microsoft are doing now. They're just clawing back on the major lack of confidence from Vista. They don't have key concepts down: Integration, Easy of use, Simplicity, Focus.
One other point to make: Its hardly important to point out touch as an issue. Remember, this is basically a hacked Windows CE. It has nothing to do with Windows 7, nor any other major release of Windows. Touch in CE and Touch in Windows 7 will not be integrated, no upgrade/compromise/middleground between the two. They are fundamentally separate technologies.
Apple never made that error. The iPhone OS is Mac OS X based - to the point they could get iPhone's entire touch call stack and UIKit on the Mac itself without any issue (and EXTREMELY simply) and create the iPhone simulator. They are fundamentally the same OS. They have a lot of potential for middle ground.
100% agree. But what if, just a small, what if, and msft is preparing the way for something bigger? We all know millions of iPhone contracts expire soon, windows is known to have touch in version 7, it runs much, much faster than vista, we all know I.T. Departmnents are going to upgrade, the palm pre looks pretty good, msft has finally found advertising that works and could be the table setting for a really bug campaign, winows mobile 6.5 looks really really good, leaps beyond present mobile and msft one time went after Google. Not sure about you but all that msft needs us one good company ( ala google/yahoo), a phone with mobile 6.5 and open source apps and they could be off and running in a heart beat at a time when apple is the most vunerable. You heard it here first. My background was National Marketing and Promotional Director.
Peace.
You mean beaten Apple to announcing it. The Zune HD isn't shipping yet.
Exactly
And imagine what those exposed screw heads will be like after he gets his greasy mitts all over them.
Apple could easily have dropped the iPod classic by now if they just made an iPod touch with a ridiculously-sized hard drive. Of course that gives people less incentive to upgrade next year because 240GB is only more useful than 120GB to people who actually own more than 120GB of portable media. In a few years this probably won't matter anyway.
Since Apple have had no worthy competitors in this space they have been allowed to bridge the transition rather elegantly.
MS shouldn't use OLED screen technology as a major focus to sell the device on. MOST users could give a s**t about what kind of screen it is, let alone know the difference between them.
I can see where this is going. Most people may not care about obscure acronyms, but they know HD stands for a clearer picture.
OLED may not mean a thing, but the same goes for screen resolution and ppi. It is looks and perception that matters.
Is MS counting on OLED to fool customers into believing the Zune is actually HD?
There's just little things where there is not an attention to detail. There are screws for a start. Yes that would make it easier to service. But who is going to service an mp3 player or really want to replace a battery? If the screen shots are true then you can see that the words sometimes goes off the screen. That should not happen.
Microsoft are showing some staying power in the market. But there has not been full hearted efforts at it either. They need to risk more or the device will only be a talking point to most people, not something they use
I think its success will depend how much they can make the device another PSP or DS but linked to games with the XBox. It needs to differentiate itself from the Ipod touch.
There's just little things where there is not an attention to detail. There are screws for a start. Yes that would make it easier to service. But who is going to service an mp3 player or really want to replace a battery? If the screen shots are true then you can see that the words sometimes goes off the screen. That should not happen.
Microsoft are showing some staying power in the market. But there has not been full hearted efforts at it either. They need to risk more or the device will only be a talking point to most people, not something they use
That's another thing. MS clearly wants to get some kind of integration going across their consumer products. They've trying to pull together the UIs on the Xbox, Zune, and Windows Media Center, and presumably this will extend to WinMo 7 and future WinCE devices.
However, WinCE, WinMo, Xbox and Zune are all different operating systems, although Zune and WinCE are apparently merging, at least somewhat. Windows Media Center is an app for Xp/Vista/Windows 7 that needs to play nice with everybody.
Whereas Apple is basically deploying OS X across every part of their product line, MS has got this hodge-podge of operating systems, all of which at one time pretended to be desktop Windows except for Xbox which is now apparently the standard for what everything else ought to look like. Or vice versa. Or something.
I'm sure they can get stuff to work together more or less, but it's such a conceptual muddle I wonder if they can explain what's happening to their customers. The Zune marketplace takes over for the Xbox, which is different from the new app store for WinMo, all of which leaves all previous Zunes orphaned, maybe, but maybe they can all talk to Media Center? Is Zune an extender or extendee? Hello? Is anybody still listening?
All this stuff was developed for completely different markets, and now that MS has noticed that maybe some kind of convergence is going on, by god they're going to put everything in a room together and squeeze till it works. Maybe they can get J Allard to stand around looking hip and it will all make sense.
Apple has OS X and iTunes. Buy stuff, sync stuff, move files from device to device. The end.
I didn't until a couple of days ago when a friend showed me his new Samsung phone with a 3.7" OLED screen. I thought the display on my iPod touch was pretty good but the difference was staggering. The colours looked so much more vivid and lifelike on the OLED screen. My iPod touch's screen is incredibly pixelated and washed out in comparison.
Do consumers care about acronyms? No. Do they care about picture quality? Yes! I certainly do. I fully expect the new iPhone (and hopefully iPod touch) will have an OLED screen.