Apple sued over methods for repeat iTunes, App Store sales

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
Apple, along with more than a dozen other firms conducting e-commerce, have been hit with a lawsuit from a patent trolling claiming first rights to technology that simplifies the re-billing process for repeat customers making purchases through online stores.



The 28-page formal complaint was filed late last month by little-known Actus, LCC in its home town of Marshall, Texas, the undisputed patent lawsuit capital of the United States. It alleges that 15 companies, including Apple, Best Buy, and Amazon, are infringing on one or more of several similarly structured patents -- No. 7,328,189, No. 7,249,099, No. 7,376,621 and No. 7,177,838 -- each of which are titled "Method and apparatus for conducting electronic commerce transactions using electronic tokens."



Essentially, the filings describe a pay-by-click method of e-commerce by which shoppers can quickly make repeat purchases or rentals with a specific online retailer after having first established a billing account that they populate with credits or funds. Electronic tokens swapped between the servers holding customers' account information and those hosting online stores can serve as tender or be used to verify the shopper has sufficient funds or credits for new transactions.



Like many patent lawsuits, Actus' complaint is broad and sweeping, using vague rhetoric that makes it difficult to discern which specific Apple technologies are at issue.



Apple has instituted 1-Click payments as a feature across its online electronics stores, allowing customers who enable the option to make repeat purchases with a single click, forgoing the need to resupply shipping and payment information, which is already stored on the company's servers.



For the iTunes Store, which also handles App Store sales, Apple offers a feature called iTunes Allowances, which lets customers send a monthly iTunes Store credit to a family member, friend, or colleague in an amount from $10 to $200.



"Think of an iTunes Allowance like a piggy bank. Some lucky kids get a monthly allowance and they trade the entire amount for stuff each month," Apple says in its description of the service. "Other kids might decide to put their allowance in a piggy bank and spend it later. iTunes Allowance works the same way as a piggy bank. Unused allowance credit rolls over from month to month until the recipient spends it."



While charging Apple with infringement, Actus repeats the basis of its patents:



If the user account contains electronic tokens having a value equal to or greater than the total price, the user is permitted to purchase the selected subset of products or services without requiring the user to disclose personal information to the vendor. The total price is subtracted from the user account, while the purchase transaction is not subject to a minimum processing fee.

It concludes with allegations that Apple is therefore directly infringing, and indirectly infringing through its "marketing, distributing, using, selling, or offering to sell the following products and/or services: Apple Store, iTunes, and iPhone Apps Store."



Actus is seeking damages and attorneys' fees with its suit, which also names Amdocs, American Express, Barnes & Noble, Cabela's, CitiGroup, eBay, FirstView, Marketing Technology Concepts, NetSpend, Officemax, U.S. Bancorp and ViVOtech.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 38
    Marshall, Texas..............Again!!!!
  • Reply 2 of 38
    801801 Posts: 271member
    Those who can, do...

    Those who can't, sue....
  • Reply 3 of 38
    chronsterchronster Posts: 1,894member
    Shit like this bores the ever loving crap out of me. Its no wonder lawyers get paid so much.
  • Reply 4 of 38
    lilgto64lilgto64 Posts: 1,147member
    I have a brilliant idea that I need to patent.



    My idea is that I will use a device such as a computer or hand held electronic device to do something useful.



    Hmm - that should pretty much cover it or do I need to be more specific?



    Okay, here goes - the device will accept user input and translate that input via hardware and or software interface including hard wired devices such as capacitors and resistors as well as soft coded instructions that will interpret the user input in such a way as to result in the desire output.



    How's that?



    oh wait - I may have just infringed on my own patent.
  • Reply 5 of 38
    Bank of America Corp., Blaze Mobile, Inc., Capital One Financial Corporation, Enable Holdings, Inc., Google, Inc., Green Dot, Corp., Javien Digital Payment Solutions, Inc., JP Morgan Chase & Co., MasterCard International, LLC, Meta Financial Group, Inc., M&T Bank Corporation, Obopay, Inc., Sonic Solutions, Visa, Inc., Vivendi Universal S.A., Inc. Wal-Mart Stores, Walt Disney Co, Western Union, WildTangent, Inc. and AgileCo
  • Reply 6 of 38
    jsmithjsmith Posts: 16member
    Maybe we could get North Korea to do their next nuke test in Marshall. Kim would get a kick out of it, and we'd get something useful too.
  • Reply 7 of 38
    al_bundyal_bundy Posts: 1,525member
    no more wage slave, i'm moving to texas so i can sue everyone
  • Reply 8 of 38
    parkyparky Posts: 383member
    I'm pleased to see that they spotted the patent misuse quickly and got a law suit underway before any of these companies got established!!
  • Reply 9 of 38
    igod 2.0igod 2.0 Posts: 77member
    They don't even know what avenue to sue Apple at. Well, seems like another lawsuit gone down the drain...nice try though...
  • Reply 10 of 38
    robonerdrobonerd Posts: 58member
    Software should not be patentable. Period.



    Copyrighted, sure. Patented, no.
  • Reply 11 of 38
    hattighattig Posts: 860member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 801 View Post


    Those who can, do...

    Those who can't, sue....



    Damn right. These business method patents just damage everyone. Patents should be non-obvious to someone skilled in the art, yet any software engineer, even 10/15 years ago, if told to implement a means to allow these systems would implement them in a similar manner, i.e., it's trivial and shouldn't be patentable.



    The earliest of those patents was filed some time ago though

    FiledtApril 21, 2000



    But there must be prior art to this date of an online system that did what this patent says.
  • Reply 12 of 38
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,217member
    shall we start a pool on how fast this is tossed on the basis of patent squatting and/or similar idea but not method of application (like with copyright you can't patent an idea just how you accomplish it).



    I'm voting less than a week.
  • Reply 13 of 38
    icarbonicarbon Posts: 196member
    AcKKKK!!!



    AAPL is down $0.18 on this news!!!!!



    We're all DOOOOMMMMMEEEEDDDD



    seriously, how does Marshall, TX not get nuked by other states for wasting everybodies resources, shouldn't they get cut-off eventually? Obviously they've figuredout some way to capitalize off of accepting all looney lawsuits that come up (is it a tourist draw?)
  • Reply 14 of 38
    lilgto64lilgto64 Posts: 1,147member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by parky View Post


    I'm pleased to see that they spotted the patent misuse quickly and got a law suit underway before any of these companies got established!!



    There should be some statute of limitations or some provision that stipulates that the internal process must be substantially the same for there to be any claim at all.



    To get a patent you should have to detail a working solution not just a high level concept. Anyone can paint a broad stroke and hint around at what something might be. It is a whole nother thing altogether to work through building testing and implementing a solution that works. Furthermore just because two companies arrive at solutions which appear to be similar in how they function - unless there is evidence that one company had access to the design or internals of the other where is the infringement?



    Now if I build a product and you reverse engineer it that is different.



    Even items such as Calculus and the telephone where each developed independently by isolated parties at about the same time.



    A patent should be on a tangible thing - not a concept. I can put an iPhone in your hand and print out the lines of code for the OS - so where is the tangible property of the plaintiff to enter as evidence - not just a scribble on the back of a napkin with a few key words - but a functional (even if not fully operational or flawed) product whose market value had been reduced by your competition's product?



    I would imagine there is prior art of some kind in this case - and isn't there some provision in patent law that you cannot patent something that is blatantly obvious? (or something along those lines)
  • Reply 15 of 38
    lilgto64lilgto64 Posts: 1,147member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iCarbon View Post


    AcKKKK!!!



    AAPL is down $0.18 on this news!!!!!



    We're all DOOOOMMMMMEEEEDDDD



    seriously, how does Marshall, TX not get nuked by other states for wasting everybodies resources, shouldn't they get cut-off eventually? Obviously they've figuredout some way to capitalize off of accepting all looney lawsuits that come up (is it a tourist draw?)



    They likely have some kind of filing fees or something that keeps the process going.



    Also - you only have to have one small victory for everyone else to line up for a chance to pull the handle and spin the wheels of "justice"
  • Reply 16 of 38
    crees!crees! Posts: 501member
    Quote:

    Apple has instituted 1-Click payments as a feature across its online electronics stores, allowing customers who enable the option to make repeat purchases with a single click, forgoing the need to resupply shipping and payment information, which is already stored on the company's servers.



    Didn't Apple have to license the 1-Click payments from Amazon some time ago?
  • Reply 17 of 38
    virgil-tb2virgil-tb2 Posts: 1,416member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by crees! View Post


    Didn't Apple have to license the 1-Click payments from Amazon some time ago?



    The patent as described above doesn't even have anything to do with 1-click so it's not clear at all what they are arguing from this summary.



    There is probably a lot more to it, but if this correctly summarises the claim:

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider


    ... If the user account contains electronic tokens having a value equal to or greater than the total price, the user is permitted to purchase the selected subset of products or services without requiring the user to disclose personal information to the vendor. The total price is subtracted from the user account, while the purchase transaction is not subject to a minimum processing fee.



    Then IMO the patent should never have been issued as it doesn't pass the "non-obvious" test. This is just a description of how "accounts" work which would apply to all "accounts" even those previous to the invention of the computer.



    It seems like they are trying to patent the idea of maintaining a balance in your account, online or otherwise. That's both too broad and too obvious for a patent.
  • Reply 18 of 38
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by crees! View Post


    Didn't Apple have to license the 1-Click payments from Amazon some time ago?



    Yes. (The 1-Click payment system, not the actual payments.) :-)
  • Reply 19 of 38
    jpklockjpklock Posts: 25member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post


    There should be some statute of limitations or some provision that stipulates that the internal process must be substantially the same for there to be any claim at all.



    US patents are valid for a maximum of 20 years from the date of approval (some patents can only be maintained for 14 years).



    Quote:

    To get a patent you should have to detail a working solution not just a high level concept.



    Successful patent applications do require the applicant to describe how to make and use the invention or discovery, including at least one working example.



    Quote:

    Furthermore just because two companies arrive at solutions which appear to be similar in how they function - unless there is evidence that one company had access to the design or internals of the other where is the infringement?



    Now if I build a product and you reverse engineer it that is different.



    Patents specifically protect the invention itself, and do not care at all the means by which infringers came to implement a version of that invention. That is to say, if two entities simultaneously make the same discovery or invent the same device, the patent will go to the one who files first for the patent. The other one is screwed. End of discussion.



    Reverse engineering does NOT allow you infringe on a patent (in part because the patent DOES require the applicant to provide detailed instructions and a detailed description of a working model-- so it'd be impossible to prove that you hadn't been "inspired" by that publicly-available working description in your own, ahem, "engineering" work...)



    Quote:

    A patent should be on a tangible thing - not a concept.



    Well, really, it's on both, in a way. Patents allow you to protect your invention or discovery (which is basically a concept), but you have to demonstrate not only THAT it works, but HOW it works, in order to gain that protection.



    The idea behind this is to make patents worth having. As a ridiculous example: if I patent, say, "chairs", and in my description I have both 3-legged and 4-legged versions, you can't eliminate my patent simply by building your own 5-legged chairs...





    Quote:

    I would imagine there is prior art of some kind in this case - and isn't there some provision in patent law that you cannot patent something that is blatantly obvious? (or something along those lines)



    Indeed-- you cannot patent something if it's "known by the public", nor if it's been described in a published work more than one year before you patent it, nor if it's immediately obvious to a technically-skilled person in the appropriate field.





    So we see, patent law as written actually has most of the features you want it to. The problems here are that (a) patent clerks, often overwhelmed and out of their technological league, sometimes give patents to applicants that don't really have a decent claim and (b) some jurisdictions of court (I'm looking at you, Marshall, TX!) are known to have judges who tend to favor patent-holders, even if the patent should not have been given-- in this case, most jurisdictions would probably void the patent, on grounds that it's obvious to technically-skilled people. I'm guessing that the judges in Marshall take a harder stand on what's "obvious"-- using the old argument: "If it was so obviously, why hadn't you done it already?"





    For the record, I agree with Virgil, above, that this particular set of patents (based on a very limited exposure to them, from this article) are probably crap, probably should never have been given, and that there's probably no legitimate basis for a lawsuit here. Shame on Actus, and on Marshall, TX.
  • Reply 20 of 38
    8corewhore8corewhore Posts: 833member
    Some of these jarks need to get their azzez kicked in a dark alley.
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