"The AP review of the Palm Pre is replete for praise for the device, claiming it is a "remarkable achievement" and that it "makes the iPhone look clunky."
Um no. The hardware and UI/OS of the iPhone is far from clunky. If he's talking about the OS, the OS is intuitive enough that a new user doesn't even need to pick up or read a manual to use it. If its hardware, this guy is nuts.
So, the Pre's battery life sucks. What a surprise! Didn't Apple say all along that they could do multitasking on the iPhone, but battery life would be severely impacted, and that was a compromise that they didn't want to make? As Mr. Spock once said, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." In this case, Apple is betting that "the many" represents basic phone use over the course of a day or two, and "the few" would be the few times that the ability to multitask would be handy. I think that's a reasonable bet. Also, the iPhone CAN multitask to a certain degree - how else can you listen to music in the background while playing a game or surfing the web.
Having said all of that, I'd like to see Palm succeed and stay in the game. More choice is always good for the consumer.
The fuckups found in the OS were far fewer than I thought. I was actually surprised it did so well in the reviews.
Engadget says they got theirs to freeze up and restart a few times, but Mossberg's ability to have it crash completely, erasing all data, and fail at connecting to a network was unbelievable. In fact, I kind of don't believe it (being that it's coming from Mossberg.) Did he take photos to prove it? And for fucks sakes man, WHAT APP CAUSED IT? Mossberg says he downloaded "an app" that had his phone crash. You'd think he'd warn people what app that was.
All in all, I don't see this as a reason for iPhone users to switch, and I definitely don't see this phone as a reason for anyone to pay an ETF at their current provider to pickup with Sprint. The Pre should do well with current Sprint users and people who's contracts are up. I have a feeling though that most iphone contracts will be renewed lol.
How many Smart Phone OS do we have now? iPhone, Blackberry, Windows Mobile, WebOS, Android, Symbian.....
Six major brands. It will get down to two or three in 5 years. All markets go through this consolidation.
Which three will survive? Blackberry and iPhone will, and the rest will fight for the last spot.
My prediction. Google will buy Palm and integrate the WebOS layer to Android, Both of them hare Linux based. Developers will have two ways to write apps for it - either through Google's Java SDK, or through WebOS's HTML/CSS/Javascript. The OS UI will use WebOS (since it looks much better than current Android).
If that happens, Android/WebOS will have a very good chance. If not, separately, neither of them will survive.
I really like windows mobile, and many others do too. I don't think it's going to see it's end anytime soon.
The fuckups found in the OS were far fewer than I thought. I was actually surprised it did so well in the reviews.
Engadget says they got theirs to freeze up and restart a few times, but Mossberg's ability to have it crash completely, erasing all data, and fail at connecting to a network was unbelievable. In fact, I kind of don't believe it (being that it's coming from Mossberg.) Did he take photos to prove it? And for fucks sakes man, WHAT APP CAUSED IT? Mossberg says he downloaded "an app" that had his phone crash. You'd think he'd warn people what app that was.
All in all, I don't see this as a reason for iPhone users to switch, and I definitely don't see this phone as a reason for anyone to pay an ETF at their current provider to pickup with Sprint. The Pre should do well with current Sprint users and people who's contracts are up. I have a feeling though that most iphone contracts will be renewed lol.
Mossberg is an known iPhone fanboy, what would you expect?
I don't miss lugging 2 batteries all over the place with me when I had Treos. Despite all the BS on the net, the iPhone battery last all day long at work. I've watched 3 movies on this to see how much the battery drains. Plenty of juice left after 3 movies. So no thanks to lugging around batteries. From my experiences with Palm from 650 to 700 series, their batteries are crap also. They don't even last a year.
LOL well I don't expect him to completely lie. He does go on to praise the backup system by saying "The good news is that the Pre's impressive backup system allowed me to quickly and easily get back almost all my data and to restore the phone's connectivity." So perhaps there isn't any deceit here.
Video encoding and Flash playback requires heavy CPU usage, which Pre can handle, but will drain the battery in 40 minutes.
So, the only elegant solution is to do it in hardware. I will bet the new iPhone will have a MPEG-4 encoding chip in it.
The Cortex A8 has a SIMD unit - NEON, and the Pre uses an A8. Also many ARM SoCs include a DSP that can be programmed for these tasks.
I think the issue is that there are only so many things they can wrote software for at the same time, and this is a specialised task so understandable that it's not been done yet.
Whereas maybe the next iPhone will have a DSP/NEON/OpenCL Graphics/dedicated video hardware, and it will have had these units utilised for video encoding/decoding tasks.
The fuckups found in the OS were far fewer than I thought. I was actually surprised it did so well in the reviews.
Engadget says they got theirs to freeze up and restart a few times, but Mossberg's ability to have it crash completely, erasing all data, and fail at connecting to a network was unbelievable. In fact, I kind of don't believe it (being that it's coming from Mossberg.) Did he take photos to prove it? And for fucks sakes man, WHAT APP CAUSED IT? Mossberg says he downloaded "an app" that had his phone crash. You'd think he'd warn people what app that was.
All in all, I don't see this as a reason for iPhone users to switch, and I definitely don't see this phone as a reason for anyone to pay an ETF at their current provider to pickup with Sprint. The Pre should do well with current Sprint users and people who's contracts are up. I have a feeling though that most iphone contracts will be renewed lol.
See the iPhone can crash, but you will never lose all your data. It's well protected purposely. Palm is playing with fire on this. It's like the old Treo days, where the thing just crashes and I don't know why. Upon rebooting all data is gone. I hot sync twice a day just in case. Speaking of HotSync, that POS was never properly coded for the Mac. Palm pretty much treated Mac users 3rd class citizens with it.
Before you slam Mossberg, who are you to criticize him? Are you credentials as exemplary as Mossberg? No. Your just a troll scurrying out of a rock when you have an opportunity, then scurry back in your hole after you make a mess.
"The AP review of the Palm Pre is replete for praise for the device, claiming it is a "remarkable achievement" and that it "makes the iPhone look clunky."
Um no. The hardware and UI/OS of the iPhone is far from clunky. If he's talking about the OS, the OS is intuitive enough that a new user doesn't even need to pick up or read a manual to use it. If its hardware, this guy is nuts.
Compared to the Pre’s 50% faster ARM CPU with a newer architecture, double the RAM and the fact that it’s using beefed-up webcode (HTML, CSS, JS), not a scaled down desktop OS, the iPhone could very well appear slow and clunky in comparison. I’m sure we’ll get plenty of side-by-side videos and reviews comparing the two before the weekend is out.
No. not the end of the story. You then have to ask the question do you want to go messing about swapping batteries? How many do you have to keep around?
I've had mobile phones for nearly 10 years now and I've never kept a spare battery, I expect enough life from the one already in there to get me through.
See the iPhone can crash, but you will never lose all your data. It's well protected purposely. Palm is playing with fire on this. It's like the old Treo days, where the thing just crashes and I don't know why. Upon rebooting all data is gone. I hot sync twice a day just in case. Speaking of HotSync, that POS was never properly coded for the Mac. Palm pretty much treated Mac users 3rd class citizens with it.
Palm got smart (or rational) and made a backup system lol
How many Smart Phone OS do we have now? iPhone, Blackberry, Windows Mobile, WebOS, Android, Symbian.....
Six major brands. It will get down to two or three in 5 years. All markets go through this consolidation.
Which three will survive? Blackberry and iPhone will, and the rest will fight for the last spot.
My prediction. Google will buy Palm and integrate the WebOS layer to Android, Both of them hare Linux based. Developers will have two ways to write apps for it - either through Google's Java SDK, or through WebOS's HTML/CSS/Javascript. The OS UI will use WebOS (since it looks much better than current Android).
If that happens, Android/WebOS will have a very good chance. If not, separately, neither of them will survive.
I would say that iPhone will survive, with Blackberry to a much lesser degree as the years go on. Then I have been thinking, what if Apple waits for the Pre to not do as well as expected, then they buy up the remaining assets of Palm?
It seems there are some cool UI elements that Palm has come up with, as well as the rest of their "intellectual property" that Apple could put to good use in future iPhones and other devices.
Looks pretty good from the Engadget review. It's a shame that it won't be out until Christmas in the UK (and even then only available on the horrifically expensive O2 network).
The other downside for me would be the 8GB limit. Makes sycning with iTunes a bit pointless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnqh
Steve won't allow iPhone to do Flash for that reason. No other phone will do Flash (no matter how people moan and complain) for the same reason.
Plenty of phones already include Flash. Either native Flash Lite 3 (aka full-fat Flash 8) or by using server technology to bring the latest version of Flash to the phone (i.e. Skyfire).
It's silly that AT&T can't (yet?) grasp the concept that a smartphone is now for CONSUMERS. Who expect some text messages in their plan.
However, I don't use texting, and when my friends text me I call them back instead (which is easier anyway). The situations in which you NEED texting (as opposed to voice and email) are rare enough that my monthly SMS bill from AT&T averages $1.
Which would put the Pre's plan at $12 a year less, not $240
$240 would be for AT&T's unlimited SMS plan--which is fair to compare, but is actually needed by almost nobody. They have two levels of SMS below the unlimited plan. They cost less and let you do MASS amounts of texting.
Users who want to sync PIM data from a Mac or PC desktop client will need to take a few additional steps to first sync their data to a Google account, which will then need to be linked to the Pre.
So, for the Pre to be actually useful you have to hand over all your data to google? I consider that a very black mark against it. Yes, yes, I know google says their motto is "do no evil", but does anyone really believe that? Apparently a lot of people do, but I don't believe them for a second.
I would say that iPhone will survive, with Blackberry to a much lesser degree as the years go on. Then I have been thinking, what if Apple waits for the Pre to not do as well as expected, then they buy up the remaining assets of Palm?
It seems there are some cool UI elements that Palm has come up with, as well as the rest of their "intellectual property" that Apple could put to good use in future iPhones and other devices.
iPhone OS will survive as long as Apple survives, so it should be around in some form for many years to come.
Windows Mobile does have Microsoft behind it, but it's dire because it's built on an outdated UI design that tweaking can't fix. However if they were to fix it, they'd do it in-house, and they probably will for WinMob7 or 8 - the new launcher application for 6.5 doesn't count, it needs to be available throughout the entire system.
BlackBerry - well it is popular now, and because of business entrenchment could stay popular for a while. I don't know enough to say whether or not it will fall behind as the touch systems take over. This is one company that could buy out webOS from Palm's skeleton, just to port their BB applications across.
Android - has Google behind it. Will have a lot of third party phones using it this year. Major threat to WinMob and Symbian/Nokia.
Symbian - at least it has Nokia behind it, and a new QT based UI coming soon. Nokia is a bit confusing here because they're also moving Linux/Maemo to other devices as well.
Before you slam Mossberg, who are you to criticize him? Are you credentials as exemplary as Mossberg? No. Your just a troll scurrying out of a rock when you have an opportunity, then scurry back in your hole after you make a mess.
Ouch! If you don't know Mossberg is the quintessential Apple fanboy than that's your ignorance not mine. Go back to your barn - and take your friends with you.
Though I think that WinMo will live on simply because MS has the means to push it regardless of sales.
Aren't MS shareholders going to get sick of them supplying loss-leaders just maintain a bit of the pie? WinMo? Zune? What other parts of tech can they lose money in? Just asking.
As for the Pre, I don't see how they are going to garner enough people to make this thing profitable seeing how many subscriber that Sprint has been losing.
Most people will not see this as cheaper than the iPhone. $250 a year is nothing.
No applications to speak of. Apple has a huge head start.
Apple will surely disable the iTunes syncing thing. If Palm doesn't have the licenses then no way is Apple going to let that continue.
The only two things I can see that this phone has is a physical keyboard, for those that think they need one, and it isn't an iPhone, for those that don't want to drink the Apple Kool-Aid(in spite of the fact that it is so tasty!).
Comments
Um no. The hardware and UI/OS of the iPhone is far from clunky. If he's talking about the OS, the OS is intuitive enough that a new user doesn't even need to pick up or read a manual to use it. If its hardware, this guy is nuts.
So, the Pre's battery life sucks. What a surprise! Didn't Apple say all along that they could do multitasking on the iPhone, but battery life would be severely impacted, and that was a compromise that they didn't want to make? As Mr. Spock once said, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." In this case, Apple is betting that "the many" represents basic phone use over the course of a day or two, and "the few" would be the few times that the ability to multitask would be handy. I think that's a reasonable bet. Also, the iPhone CAN multitask to a certain degree - how else can you listen to music in the background while playing a game or surfing the web.
Having said all of that, I'd like to see Palm succeed and stay in the game. More choice is always good for the consumer.
Can you swap the Pre's battery? End of story.
Engadget says they got theirs to freeze up and restart a few times, but Mossberg's ability to have it crash completely, erasing all data, and fail at connecting to a network was unbelievable. In fact, I kind of don't believe it (being that it's coming from Mossberg.) Did he take photos to prove it? And for fucks sakes man, WHAT APP CAUSED IT? Mossberg says he downloaded "an app" that had his phone crash. You'd think he'd warn people what app that was.
All in all, I don't see this as a reason for iPhone users to switch, and I definitely don't see this phone as a reason for anyone to pay an ETF at their current provider to pickup with Sprint. The Pre should do well with current Sprint users and people who's contracts are up. I have a feeling though that most iphone contracts will be renewed lol.
How many Smart Phone OS do we have now? iPhone, Blackberry, Windows Mobile, WebOS, Android, Symbian.....
Six major brands. It will get down to two or three in 5 years. All markets go through this consolidation.
Which three will survive? Blackberry and iPhone will, and the rest will fight for the last spot.
My prediction. Google will buy Palm and integrate the WebOS layer to Android, Both of them hare Linux based. Developers will have two ways to write apps for it - either through Google's Java SDK, or through WebOS's HTML/CSS/Javascript. The OS UI will use WebOS (since it looks much better than current Android).
If that happens, Android/WebOS will have a very good chance. If not, separately, neither of them will survive.
I really like windows mobile, and many others do too. I don't think it's going to see it's end anytime soon.
The fuckups found in the OS were far fewer than I thought. I was actually surprised it did so well in the reviews.
Engadget says they got theirs to freeze up and restart a few times, but Mossberg's ability to have it crash completely, erasing all data, and fail at connecting to a network was unbelievable. In fact, I kind of don't believe it (being that it's coming from Mossberg.) Did he take photos to prove it? And for fucks sakes man, WHAT APP CAUSED IT? Mossberg says he downloaded "an app" that had his phone crash. You'd think he'd warn people what app that was.
All in all, I don't see this as a reason for iPhone users to switch, and I definitely don't see this phone as a reason for anyone to pay an ETF at their current provider to pickup with Sprint. The Pre should do well with current Sprint users and people who's contracts are up. I have a feeling though that most iphone contracts will be renewed lol.
Mossberg is an known iPhone fanboy, what would you expect?
Can you swap the Pre's battery? End of story.
I don't miss lugging 2 batteries all over the place with me when I had Treos. Despite all the BS on the net, the iPhone battery last all day long at work. I've watched 3 movies on this to see how much the battery drains. Plenty of juice left after 3 movies. So no thanks to lugging around batteries. From my experiences with Palm from 650 to 700 series, their batteries are crap also. They don't even last a year.
Mossberg is an iPhone fanboy, what do you expect?
LOL well I don't expect him to completely lie. He does go on to praise the backup system by saying "The good news is that the Pre's impressive backup system allowed me to quickly and easily get back almost all my data and to restore the phone's connectivity." So perhaps there isn't any deceit here.
I will give you my guess.
Video encoding and Flash playback requires heavy CPU usage, which Pre can handle, but will drain the battery in 40 minutes.
So, the only elegant solution is to do it in hardware. I will bet the new iPhone will have a MPEG-4 encoding chip in it.
The Cortex A8 has a SIMD unit - NEON, and the Pre uses an A8. Also many ARM SoCs include a DSP that can be programmed for these tasks.
I think the issue is that there are only so many things they can wrote software for at the same time, and this is a specialised task so understandable that it's not been done yet.
Whereas maybe the next iPhone will have a DSP/NEON/OpenCL Graphics/dedicated video hardware, and it will have had these units utilised for video encoding/decoding tasks.
The fuckups found in the OS were far fewer than I thought. I was actually surprised it did so well in the reviews.
Engadget says they got theirs to freeze up and restart a few times, but Mossberg's ability to have it crash completely, erasing all data, and fail at connecting to a network was unbelievable. In fact, I kind of don't believe it (being that it's coming from Mossberg.) Did he take photos to prove it? And for fucks sakes man, WHAT APP CAUSED IT? Mossberg says he downloaded "an app" that had his phone crash. You'd think he'd warn people what app that was.
All in all, I don't see this as a reason for iPhone users to switch, and I definitely don't see this phone as a reason for anyone to pay an ETF at their current provider to pickup with Sprint. The Pre should do well with current Sprint users and people who's contracts are up. I have a feeling though that most iphone contracts will be renewed lol.
See the iPhone can crash, but you will never lose all your data. It's well protected purposely. Palm is playing with fire on this. It's like the old Treo days, where the thing just crashes and I don't know why. Upon rebooting all data is gone. I hot sync twice a day just in case. Speaking of HotSync, that POS was never properly coded for the Mac. Palm pretty much treated Mac users 3rd class citizens with it.
Mossberg is an iPhone fanboy, what do you expect?
Before you slam Mossberg, who are you to criticize him? Are you credentials as exemplary as Mossberg? No. Your just a troll scurrying out of a rock when you have an opportunity, then scurry back in your hole after you make a mess.
"The AP review of the Palm Pre is replete for praise for the device, claiming it is a "remarkable achievement" and that it "makes the iPhone look clunky."
Um no. The hardware and UI/OS of the iPhone is far from clunky. If he's talking about the OS, the OS is intuitive enough that a new user doesn't even need to pick up or read a manual to use it. If its hardware, this guy is nuts.
Compared to the Pre’s 50% faster ARM CPU with a newer architecture, double the RAM and the fact that it’s using beefed-up webcode (HTML, CSS, JS), not a scaled down desktop OS, the iPhone could very well appear slow and clunky in comparison. I’m sure we’ll get plenty of side-by-side videos and reviews comparing the two before the weekend is out.
Can you swap the Pre's battery? End of story.
No. not the end of the story. You then have to ask the question do you want to go messing about swapping batteries? How many do you have to keep around?
I've had mobile phones for nearly 10 years now and I've never kept a spare battery, I expect enough life from the one already in there to get me through.
See the iPhone can crash, but you will never lose all your data. It's well protected purposely. Palm is playing with fire on this. It's like the old Treo days, where the thing just crashes and I don't know why. Upon rebooting all data is gone. I hot sync twice a day just in case. Speaking of HotSync, that POS was never properly coded for the Mac. Palm pretty much treated Mac users 3rd class citizens with it.
Palm got smart (or rational) and made a backup system lol
How many Smart Phone OS do we have now? iPhone, Blackberry, Windows Mobile, WebOS, Android, Symbian.....
Six major brands. It will get down to two or three in 5 years. All markets go through this consolidation.
Which three will survive? Blackberry and iPhone will, and the rest will fight for the last spot.
My prediction. Google will buy Palm and integrate the WebOS layer to Android, Both of them hare Linux based. Developers will have two ways to write apps for it - either through Google's Java SDK, or through WebOS's HTML/CSS/Javascript. The OS UI will use WebOS (since it looks much better than current Android).
If that happens, Android/WebOS will have a very good chance. If not, separately, neither of them will survive.
I would say that iPhone will survive, with Blackberry to a much lesser degree as the years go on. Then I have been thinking, what if Apple waits for the Pre to not do as well as expected, then they buy up the remaining assets of Palm?
It seems there are some cool UI elements that Palm has come up with, as well as the rest of their "intellectual property" that Apple could put to good use in future iPhones and other devices.
The other downside for me would be the 8GB limit. Makes sycning with iTunes a bit pointless.
Steve won't allow iPhone to do Flash for that reason. No other phone will do Flash (no matter how people moan and complain) for the same reason.
Plenty of phones already include Flash. Either native Flash Lite 3 (aka full-fat Flash 8) or by using server technology to bring the latest version of Flash to the phone (i.e. Skyfire).
It's silly that AT&T can't (yet?) grasp the concept that a smartphone is now for CONSUMERS. Who expect some text messages in their plan.
However, I don't use texting, and when my friends text me I call them back instead (which is easier anyway). The situations in which you NEED texting (as opposed to voice and email) are rare enough that my monthly SMS bill from AT&T averages $1.
Which would put the Pre's plan at $12 a year less, not $240
$240 would be for AT&T's unlimited SMS plan--which is fair to compare, but is actually needed by almost nobody. They have two levels of SMS below the unlimited plan. They cost less and let you do MASS amounts of texting.
Users who want to sync PIM data from a Mac or PC desktop client will need to take a few additional steps to first sync their data to a Google account, which will then need to be linked to the Pre.
So, for the Pre to be actually useful you have to hand over all your data to google? I consider that a very black mark against it. Yes, yes, I know google says their motto is "do no evil", but does anyone really believe that? Apparently a lot of people do, but I don't believe them for a second.
I would say that iPhone will survive, with Blackberry to a much lesser degree as the years go on. Then I have been thinking, what if Apple waits for the Pre to not do as well as expected, then they buy up the remaining assets of Palm?
It seems there are some cool UI elements that Palm has come up with, as well as the rest of their "intellectual property" that Apple could put to good use in future iPhones and other devices.
iPhone OS will survive as long as Apple survives, so it should be around in some form for many years to come.
Windows Mobile does have Microsoft behind it, but it's dire because it's built on an outdated UI design that tweaking can't fix. However if they were to fix it, they'd do it in-house, and they probably will for WinMob7 or 8 - the new launcher application for 6.5 doesn't count, it needs to be available throughout the entire system.
BlackBerry - well it is popular now, and because of business entrenchment could stay popular for a while. I don't know enough to say whether or not it will fall behind as the touch systems take over. This is one company that could buy out webOS from Palm's skeleton, just to port their BB applications across.
Android - has Google behind it. Will have a lot of third party phones using it this year. Major threat to WinMob and Symbian/Nokia.
Symbian - at least it has Nokia behind it, and a new QT based UI coming soon. Nokia is a bit confusing here because they're also moving Linux/Maemo to other devices as well.
Before you slam Mossberg, who are you to criticize him? Are you credentials as exemplary as Mossberg? No. Your just a troll scurrying out of a rock when you have an opportunity, then scurry back in your hole after you make a mess.
Ouch! If you don't know Mossberg is the quintessential Apple fanboy than that's your ignorance not mine. Go back to your barn - and take your friends with you.
Though I think that WinMo will live on simply because MS has the means to push it regardless of sales.
Aren't MS shareholders going to get sick of them supplying loss-leaders just maintain a bit of the pie? WinMo? Zune? What other parts of tech can they lose money in? Just asking.
As for the Pre, I don't see how they are going to garner enough people to make this thing profitable seeing how many subscriber that Sprint has been losing.
Most people will not see this as cheaper than the iPhone. $250 a year is nothing.
No applications to speak of. Apple has a huge head start.
Apple will surely disable the iTunes syncing thing. If Palm doesn't have the licenses then no way is Apple going to let that continue.
The only two things I can see that this phone has is a physical keyboard, for those that think they need one, and it isn't an iPhone, for those that don't want to drink the Apple Kool-Aid(in spite of the fact that it is so tasty!).