Pixel count = Quality? A vast oversimplification of the factors involved in taking high quality pictures. While it is true that all other factors being equal, more pixels = more resolution, all other factors are seldom equal. For example, the great majority of compact 12 Megapixel point and shoots don't take nearly as good pics as 8 Megapixel DSLR's.
Lens quality is telling. The materials used, the size of the lens itself (light gathering capacity) and much more. E.g., for one thing, you inherently have much less control of "depth of field" in any compact P&S.
And then there's the metering/exposure systems, the recording software, the sensor itself (not all pixel-recording surfaces are created equal) and more. Pixel count, therefore, while not entirely irrelevant, is really only this year's CPU GHz marketing tool for those who don't know a great deal about what makes a good camera and a good picture-taking system.
Meanwhile, I have what I think is an interesting tech question about the camera feature.....
...iPhone OS 3 allows interfacing other hardware to the phone. Having had a number of flashless cellphone cameras which are nearly useless (inside because they're not sensitive enough for regular indoor lighting, and outside because the viewfinder washes out so much you can't see what you're photographing), I'm wondering if someone could offer a flash (not Flash) peripheral for indoor photography, i.e., a tiny little clip on flash attachment.
That alone would lead to much better photographs all around, especially with good software allowing control over fill flash, degree of flash, diffusion, etc. And I think push me over the edge to buy.
Heh, that was a LOT of writing to repeat what the OP had said. He didn't say pixel count = quality, he said "PIXEL COUNT=/=QUALITY"
Which is to say - "pixel count does not equal quality"
I would love for AI and all the other big Mac sites out there to hold AT&T's feet to the fire re: delays in MMS (until "late summer") and tethering (assuming they will offer that at all). It's really obnoxious.
No, I will hold Apple's feet to the fire. They need to roll out the iPhone on Verizon. This will give more customers access to the phone and force AT&T to offer these features. We all win accept AT&T. Damnit I want my iPhone and I want it on Verizon. They screwed up by passing on the iPhone the first time but they have better service and customer service and more users.
Contact Apple for your answers. If you can't grasp that OpenCL on a second GPU will benefit the entire OS and its applications base then please seriously contact Apple.
Currently, no. There is a toggle switch in System Preferences that you can choose one or the other, but the you have to restart to make the change. Hopefully they make it so you can change them dynamically and use both in conjunction for more performance.
Heck couldn't they offer a small clip on camera with little zoom lens that clips onto the back of the iphone and connects to the 30pin connector?
After watching the keynote - and learning the remote device/embedded software combo also works across bluetooth, you could go nuts actually.
one example: remotely triggered self-powered strobe or even multiple strobe slave lighting setups would let you place the flash (or accessory camera or....??) anywhere within 30 feet.
control of light - which is the real essence of photography - is the most powerful part of the picture-making process and will help extract whatever quality the iPhone camera is capable of.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
You could have saved a lot of writing, that wasn't what was meant. "=/=" is a keyboard-friendly and cross text encoding standard symbol that means not equal to: ≠.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj
Heh, that was a LOT of writing to repeat what the OP had said. He didn't say pixel count = quality, he said "PIXEL COUNT=/=QUALITY"
Which is to say - "pixel count does not equal quality"
Well 'scuse me for not knowing that symbol, but I assure you lots of people on this thread have little idea of what goes into making a good camera. So as a photographer, just trying to empower people a little beyond the megapixel myth.
Since his post was meant to be sarcastic with lots of caps and flourishes I figured that was another. I don't even know if he actually meant the camera was 'stunning' either, but some will believe it's Hasselblad quality if it's announced from the mothership. It's probably a nice to very nice cell phone cam. But it's only a cell phone cam and subject to the limitations of the tech and the laws of physics, and folks should temper their expectations accordingly.
So, yeah, I admit to being verbose, but only about things I know something about and which are worth knowing for people who are interested in the topic. Personally, I thought I was pretty succinct for a topic that can and does fill many books.
You may all now return to repetitive endless war stories and opinions on AT&T upgrade pricing.
Does anyone know what processor is in the new 3Gs? Is it the same cortex processor that is in the pre?
I don't know and truely would like to know. I don't think it can be a Cortex only processor as existing code isn't based on the Cortex instruction set from what I understand. For all we know it could be another ARM 11 running a lot faster or something from marvel.
Apples web site is silent on what is in the GS so I suspect a cover up. Of course this is a paper release so maybe they are waiting for real hardware.
Quote:
What about RAM? Would like to see more tech specs..
You got that right. I hope we don't have to wait a week and a half for somebody to tear the unit apart.
I'm surprised they didn't change the look at least a little, in part to shake things up a bit and so it's more apparent whether it's the new model or not.
I agree. I was expecting a small design difference to indicate it's the new model. It makes me wonder if this is Apple's way of saying this is just a minor revision and wait until next summer for the big one.
That is actually impressive that no case changes were needed. I guess all the old parts and new parts were pretty easy to place. I am looking forward to seeing it dissected.
You are a dumb blind sheep. It's the same fricking case with a compass.
Quit defending Apple with no basis.
You don't know what the RAM is, You don't know what processor it uses, you don't know what the real world battery use is.
It's the same fricking case with a compass as far as you know.
That's all it is until you have the specs on the phone. Yes it is just a phone (with a compass).
I get lost hiking all the time, this is going to be a great feature for me.
I lost my phone, I pay Apple $99 for mobile vista and I can erase it. That is wrong.
If I lost my phone I should be able to call AT&T and say stop service and wipe my phone I have personal data on it.
The 3GS is a joke for an upgrade and the upgrade cost is a joke as well for those that have been faithful to apple since day 1 of the iPhone.
Any chance we could just go straight to re-banning this guy without have to live with his bitter invective for a while?
We all know where this is going, it would save time.
By the way, is it just me, or are the "you Apple people make me sick" crowd growing ever more bilious and unhinged? There seems to be an ever increasing tone of almost pathological loathing.
Not sure what accounts for it. Apple's recent successes? The failure of Apple users to have the decency to be struck dead? Tinfoil shortage?
The VGA 30fps video is nice. Any one have a phone that bests or matches it? If so, what codecs does it record in, what Mpx is the camera, what phone is it, and, IYO, how good is the quality?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seahawk Fan 2
You don't know what the RAM is, You don't know what processor it use.
I don?t know what it is, but i certainly know what it?s not. I can make educated guesses as to what it probably is and be assured as to what it isn?t. Your inability to not see what is obvious is endearing. Not everyone can be a thinking man in this world or the fries will never get cooked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox
Any chance we could just go straight to re-banning this guy without have to live with his bitter invective for a while?
We all know where this is going, it would save time.
By the way, is it just me, or are the "you Apple people make me sick" crowd growing ever more bilious and unhinged? There seems to be an ever increasing tone of almost pathological loathing.
Not sure what accounts for it. Apple's recent successes? The failure of Apple users to have the decency to be struck dead? Tinfoil shortage?
He?s like Teckstud on crystal meth. Can?t help but laugh at it all. As many people as i confer with in public I never seem to run into these people outside of this forum. Though I do stay away from Digg, Engadget, Gizmodo and other such forums so perhaps these are just the throwbacks and probably what a decent forum has to deal with from time to time.
ive heard something about a "finger print" reducing back. what are the chances that it is also just as scratch proof (like the film they put on Blu-Ray discs?)
i guess i could always just order one of the ones that come as a sticker and you apply yourself... but those cost like $20 and its hard to get it on there without bubbles...
You are a dumb blind sheep. It's the same fricking case with a compass.
Quit defending Apple with no basis.
You don't know what the RAM is, You don't know what processor it uses, you don't know what the real world battery use is.
It's the same fricking case with a compass as far as you know.
That's all it is until you have the specs on the phone. Yes it is just a phone (with a compass).
I get lost hiking all the time, this is going to be a great feature for me.
I lost my phone, I pay Apple $99 for mobile vista and I can erase it. That is wrong.
If I lost my phone I should be able to call AT&T and say stop service and wipe my phone I have personal data on it.
The 3GS is a joke for an upgrade and the upgrade cost is a joke as well for those that have been faithful to apple since day 1 of the iPhone.
1. The speed comparison they provided is a very strong indicator of an improved processor and more ram. We will know for sure soon enough, but it is almost a sure thing as of now.
2. Same case and compass? A higher quality camera is new hardware is it not? Ignoring facts is a common but not effective argument.
3. Can you ask AT&T to wipe any other phone? Why do you hold the iPhone to a different standard? After all it is "just a phone, with a compass". Adding features to mobile me is a good thing, the service is better with the auto locate and auto wipe features.
4. How can you say the iPhone 3G S is a joke of an upgrade when you don't even know its specs, and haven't tried it out yourself? Seriously what do you expect from a phone upgrade. What happens when a computer model is upgraded? Mostly just hard drive, ram, and processor upgrade. Expect phones to go the same way, it is unreasonable to expect a plethora of newfangled features every year.
5. The upgrade costs are not any more expensive than with any other phone. Expect to pay a lot of money for a phone if you break the contract less than a year into it, as the cost of your phone is subsidized by the carrier.
For every "blind sheep" there is someone like you that is completely out of touch with reality the other way, blinded by some sort of rage that I don't understand.
I don't see why no one has suggested that this is an interim upgrade to get the OS 3.0 out on upgraded hardware guts, while leaving upgraded exterior for a later date (this year). I think Apple will wait maybe 3-6 more months and then upgrade again, once the kinks have been worked out in the OS.
Because 3-6 months are too short for a project involving hardware modifications. And it's just not possible to launch first some intermediate releases of hardware and then the final one.
The guy they quote as having grim misgivings over whether business will stick "the security standards they've established for 30 years" or throw caution to the wind and put themselves "at the mercy of Apple to improve the security because they refuse to open it up to a free market solution" just happens to be CTO of a mobile security "solutions" company, who of course make their living warning anyone who will listen that they'll be overrun if they avail themselves of a particular "free market solution."
Comments
Stunning? Remains to be seen in the real world.
Pixel count = Quality? A vast oversimplification of the factors involved in taking high quality pictures. While it is true that all other factors being equal, more pixels = more resolution, all other factors are seldom equal. For example, the great majority of compact 12 Megapixel point and shoots don't take nearly as good pics as 8 Megapixel DSLR's.
Lens quality is telling. The materials used, the size of the lens itself (light gathering capacity) and much more. E.g., for one thing, you inherently have much less control of "depth of field" in any compact P&S.
And then there's the metering/exposure systems, the recording software, the sensor itself (not all pixel-recording surfaces are created equal) and more. Pixel count, therefore, while not entirely irrelevant, is really only this year's CPU GHz marketing tool for those who don't know a great deal about what makes a good camera and a good picture-taking system.
Meanwhile, I have what I think is an interesting tech question about the camera feature.....
...iPhone OS 3 allows interfacing other hardware to the phone. Having had a number of flashless cellphone cameras which are nearly useless (inside because they're not sensitive enough for regular indoor lighting, and outside because the viewfinder washes out so much you can't see what you're photographing), I'm wondering if someone could offer a flash (not Flash) peripheral for indoor photography, i.e., a tiny little clip on flash attachment.
That alone would lead to much better photographs all around, especially with good software allowing control over fill flash, degree of flash, diffusion, etc. And I think push me over the edge to buy.
Heh, that was a LOT of writing to repeat what the OP had said. He didn't say pixel count = quality, he said "PIXEL COUNT=/=QUALITY"
Which is to say - "pixel count does not equal quality"
Just jump off a cliff and die already... We don't need ultra-whiners and thieves on this forum.
Why don't you wait until you've been here for more than two months before telling anyone what to do? And, hacking your phone makes you a thief?
And there is more, THE 3GS HAS A FASTER PROCESSOR, MORE RAM
What are you basing this on, a dream you had? Apple hasn't mentioned either upgrade.
There, I hope this makes you less of a troll, or at least convinces you to get your ass outta here.
Maybe he can take you with him.
Rogers / Fido is ten times worse than AT&T. Then again they are the only HSPA provider in Canada...but not for long
I would love for AI and all the other big Mac sites out there to hold AT&T's feet to the fire re: delays in MMS (until "late summer") and tethering (assuming they will offer that at all). It's really obnoxious.
No, I will hold Apple's feet to the fire. They need to roll out the iPhone on Verizon. This will give more customers access to the phone and force AT&T to offer these features. We all win accept AT&T. Damnit I want my iPhone and I want it on Verizon. They screwed up by passing on the iPhone the first time but they have better service and customer service and more users.
Man with the uproar the AT&T upgrade pricing, imagine the chaos when they announce the Rogers version.
Rogers / Fido is ten times worse than AT&T. Then again they are the only HSPA provider in Canada...but not for long
Could you elaborate?
Contact Apple for your answers. If you can't grasp that OpenCL on a second GPU will benefit the entire OS and its applications base then please seriously contact Apple.
Are both chips on at the same time ?
Some things that would have be nice to have:
1) Front-facing camera under the glass for iChat AV.
2) A flash/light for the dark places we all visit
3) A higher megapixel camera
4) An OLED display
Some kudos to Apple:
1) cut, copy, and paste
2) video and editing capabilities
3) voice navigation
4) $99 iPhone (now if AT&T would make good on a cheaper data plan)
5) iPhone OS in general
Are both chips on at the same time ?
Currently, no. There is a toggle switch in System Preferences that you can choose one or the other, but the you have to restart to make the change. Hopefully they make it so you can change them dynamically and use both in conjunction for more performance.
Heck couldn't they offer a small clip on camera with little zoom lens that clips onto the back of the iphone and connects to the 30pin connector?
After watching the keynote - and learning the remote device/embedded software combo also works across bluetooth, you could go nuts actually.
one example: remotely triggered self-powered strobe or even multiple strobe slave lighting setups would let you place the flash (or accessory camera or....??) anywhere within 30 feet.
control of light - which is the real essence of photography - is the most powerful part of the picture-making process and will help extract whatever quality the iPhone camera is capable of.
You could have saved a lot of writing, that wasn't what was meant. "=/=" is a keyboard-friendly and cross text encoding standard symbol that means not equal to: ≠.
Heh, that was a LOT of writing to repeat what the OP had said. He didn't say pixel count = quality, he said "PIXEL COUNT=/=QUALITY"
Which is to say - "pixel count does not equal quality"
Well 'scuse me for not knowing that symbol, but I assure you lots of people on this thread have little idea of what goes into making a good camera. So as a photographer, just trying to empower people a little beyond the megapixel myth.
Since his post was meant to be sarcastic with lots of caps and flourishes I figured that was another. I don't even know if he actually meant the camera was 'stunning' either, but some will believe it's Hasselblad quality if it's announced from the mothership. It's probably a nice to very nice cell phone cam. But it's only a cell phone cam and subject to the limitations of the tech and the laws of physics, and folks should temper their expectations accordingly.
So, yeah, I admit to being verbose, but only about things I know something about and which are worth knowing for people who are interested in the topic. Personally, I thought I was pretty succinct for a topic that can and does fill many books.
You may all now return to repetitive endless war stories and opinions on AT&T upgrade pricing.
Does anyone know what processor is in the new 3Gs? Is it the same cortex processor that is in the pre?
I don't know and truely would like to know. I don't think it can be a Cortex only processor as existing code isn't based on the Cortex instruction set from what I understand. For all we know it could be another ARM 11 running a lot faster or something from marvel.
Apples web site is silent on what is in the GS so I suspect a cover up. Of course this is a paper release so maybe they are waiting for real hardware.
What about RAM? Would like to see more tech specs..
You got that right. I hope we don't have to wait a week and a half for somebody to tear the unit apart.
Dave
I'm surprised they didn't change the look at least a little, in part to shake things up a bit and so it's more apparent whether it's the new model or not.
I agree. I was expecting a small design difference to indicate it's the new model. It makes me wonder if this is Apple's way of saying this is just a minor revision and wait until next summer for the big one.
That is actually impressive that no case changes were needed. I guess all the old parts and new parts were pretty easy to place. I am looking forward to seeing it dissected.
You are a dumb blind sheep. It's the same fricking case with a compass.
Quit defending Apple with no basis.
You don't know what the RAM is, You don't know what processor it uses, you don't know what the real world battery use is.
It's the same fricking case with a compass as far as you know.
That's all it is until you have the specs on the phone. Yes it is just a phone (with a compass).
I get lost hiking all the time, this is going to be a great feature for me.
I lost my phone, I pay Apple $99 for mobile vista and I can erase it. That is wrong.
If I lost my phone I should be able to call AT&T and say stop service and wipe my phone I have personal data on it.
The 3GS is a joke for an upgrade and the upgrade cost is a joke as well for those that have been faithful to apple since day 1 of the iPhone.
We all know where this is going, it would save time.
By the way, is it just me, or are the "you Apple people make me sick" crowd growing ever more bilious and unhinged? There seems to be an ever increasing tone of almost pathological loathing.
Not sure what accounts for it. Apple's recent successes? The failure of Apple users to have the decency to be struck dead? Tinfoil shortage?
You don't know what the RAM is, You don't know what processor it use.
I don?t know what it is, but i certainly know what it?s not. I can make educated guesses as to what it probably is and be assured as to what it isn?t. Your inability to not see what is obvious is endearing. Not everyone can be a thinking man in this world or the fries will never get cooked.
Any chance we could just go straight to re-banning this guy without have to live with his bitter invective for a while?
We all know where this is going, it would save time.
By the way, is it just me, or are the "you Apple people make me sick" crowd growing ever more bilious and unhinged? There seems to be an ever increasing tone of almost pathological loathing.
Not sure what accounts for it. Apple's recent successes? The failure of Apple users to have the decency to be struck dead? Tinfoil shortage?
He?s like Teckstud on crystal meth. Can?t help but laugh at it all. As many people as i confer with in public I never seem to run into these people outside of this forum. Though I do stay away from Digg, Engadget, Gizmodo and other such forums so perhaps these are just the throwbacks and probably what a decent forum has to deal with from time to time.
i guess i could always just order one of the ones that come as a sticker and you apply yourself... but those cost like $20 and its hard to get it on there without bubbles...
You are a dumb blind sheep. It's the same fricking case with a compass.
Quit defending Apple with no basis.
You don't know what the RAM is, You don't know what processor it uses, you don't know what the real world battery use is.
It's the same fricking case with a compass as far as you know.
That's all it is until you have the specs on the phone. Yes it is just a phone (with a compass).
I get lost hiking all the time, this is going to be a great feature for me.
I lost my phone, I pay Apple $99 for mobile vista and I can erase it. That is wrong.
If I lost my phone I should be able to call AT&T and say stop service and wipe my phone I have personal data on it.
The 3GS is a joke for an upgrade and the upgrade cost is a joke as well for those that have been faithful to apple since day 1 of the iPhone.
1. The speed comparison they provided is a very strong indicator of an improved processor and more ram. We will know for sure soon enough, but it is almost a sure thing as of now.
2. Same case and compass? A higher quality camera is new hardware is it not? Ignoring facts is a common but not effective argument.
3. Can you ask AT&T to wipe any other phone? Why do you hold the iPhone to a different standard? After all it is "just a phone, with a compass". Adding features to mobile me is a good thing, the service is better with the auto locate and auto wipe features.
4. How can you say the iPhone 3G S is a joke of an upgrade when you don't even know its specs, and haven't tried it out yourself? Seriously what do you expect from a phone upgrade. What happens when a computer model is upgraded? Mostly just hard drive, ram, and processor upgrade. Expect phones to go the same way, it is unreasonable to expect a plethora of newfangled features every year.
5. The upgrade costs are not any more expensive than with any other phone. Expect to pay a lot of money for a phone if you break the contract less than a year into it, as the cost of your phone is subsidized by the carrier.
For every "blind sheep" there is someone like you that is completely out of touch with reality the other way, blinded by some sort of rage that I don't understand.
I don't see why no one has suggested that this is an interim upgrade to get the OS 3.0 out on upgraded hardware guts, while leaving upgraded exterior for a later date (this year). I think Apple will wait maybe 3-6 more months and then upgrade again, once the kinks have been worked out in the OS.
Because 3-6 months are too short for a project involving hardware modifications. And it's just not possible to launch first some intermediate releases of hardware and then the final one.
http://www.informationweek.com/news/...leID=217800170
Apparently one of them is anti-virus (on page 2)!
Really?
So, what's the iPhone missing now?
http://www.informationweek.com/news/...leID=217800170
Apparently one of them is anti-virus (on page 2)!
Really?
The guy they quote as having grim misgivings over whether business will stick "the security standards they've established for 30 years" or throw caution to the wind and put themselves "at the mercy of Apple to improve the security because they refuse to open it up to a free market solution" just happens to be CTO of a mobile security "solutions" company, who of course make their living warning anyone who will listen that they'll be overrun if they avail themselves of a particular "free market solution."
Come on, WTF man, give it to us the same time as the Americans FFS.
We are getting the new iPhone on the same day as the US.
In fact we will have MMS and Teathering before the USA.