Snow Leopard gets richer, thinner, cheaper than Windows 7

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  • Reply 61 of 190
    acknightacknight Posts: 26member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


    Is there a list somewhere?



    Apple lists these at http://www.apple.com/macosx/specs.html



    OpenCL

    * NVIDIA Geforce 8600M GT, GeForce 8800 GT, GeForce 8800 GTS, Geforce 9400M, GeForce 9600M GT, GeForce GT 120, GeForce GT 130.

    * ATI Radeon 4850, Radeon 4870
  • Reply 62 of 190
    hudson1hudson1 Posts: 800member
    Somewhere I read that very few Windows users ever pay to upgrade their OS. Sure they do the freebies like the Service Packs but that's usually the extent of it.



    Windows marketing is really about getting people to buy a new Windows computer as they must know that the OEM licenses represent the vast majority of their Windows-based revenues. Once people have their computers, many realize Windows is not all that good (yes it's functional) so why throw good money after bad?



    All of the Microsoft TV ads with the computer shoppers never mention Vista at all. MS obviously know they have nothing to truly sell that compares well to the competition.
  • Reply 63 of 190
    jcw5002jcw5002 Posts: 37member
    I'll be the first to admit that i'm a big Apple Fanboy but this article was just terrible. You make us fanboys look bad. Most of the points in this article were baseless and made you sound very uneducated and ignorant. To talk so long about something as pointless as version numbers? Come on man, this is pathetic.
  • Reply 64 of 190
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,615member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by treestman View Post


    I think you left off the biggest contrast of all.



    Apple is proud enough -- and the product was successful enough -- for them to want to continue using the Leopard name. Hence Snow Leopard.



    By contrast, Vista is such a poison that Microsoft won't even use the name in its own ads, let alone in the "fix it" release that is Windows 7.



    Excellent point!
  • Reply 65 of 190
    quadra 610quadra 610 Posts: 6,756member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by acknight View Post


    Apple lists these at http://www.apple.com/macosx/specs.html



    OpenCL

    * NVIDIA Geforce 8600M GT, GeForce 8800 GT, GeForce 8800 GTS, Geforce 9400M, GeForce 9600M GT, GeForce GT 120, GeForce GT 130.

    * ATI Radeon 4850, Radeon 4870



    Thank you. Looks like I'm good to go.
  • Reply 66 of 190
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,615member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TiAdiMundo View Post


    "Many" users got to downgrade to XP? Many? Where? This was only a very special deal for enterprise customers from some suppliers.



    Um, no. Until they were recently forced to stop by Microsoft, manufacturers like Dell prominently advertised the XP downgrade option, even go so far as to pre-load XP on the machines. It was a very popular option according to our Dell sales team...
  • Reply 67 of 190
    quadra 610quadra 610 Posts: 6,756member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post


    Um, no. Until they were recently forced to stop by Microsoft, manufacturers like Dell prominently advertised the XP downgrade option, even go so far as to pre-load XP on the machines. It was a very popular option according to our Dell sales team...



    Yes. XP was in widespread demand.
  • Reply 68 of 190
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,615member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


    Apple doesn't create the hype. Users do. Users do because there is reason to. Apple creates great products that people want or didn't even know they wanted. It's just that simple. It's all about attitude - the attitude toward how people should interact with technology; the process that occurs from the time someone picks up a device to the time the result is achieved. When Apple engineers and designers sit down to create/implement something new, dollars-to-donuts there are very different forces at work in their heads compared to anyone else, anywhere else. It's a completely different mind-set. We even heard Schiller and Serlet say that at Apple, they come at this from a completely different place. So true.



    Bing!
  • Reply 69 of 190
    kukukuku Posts: 254member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


    Yes. XP was in widespread demand.



    That part is true, it was cancel and re-listed 3 times since the vista launch.



    MS tried to force it at first, but suppliers had already stock piled it, and MS really had no choice, because the makers would simply stop taking in their license for vista, and just use up the stockpiled XP license. That's when MS caved I think.



    Any shop will tell you, that while home users who are bargin bin will get the vista pre-built, the majority of home-business will specifically buy the XP version.



    Unfortunately, that is quite a lot, because the money did come from home-business buyers, due to their workflow, and with it, all the software buying.



    A home laptop user would almost never buy office, quicken, quickbooks, etc. But a prosumer would, and a prosumer, is also the most likely to downgrade XP, which cause the situation of wide spread "Vista sucks".



    Technican's/IT won't work on vista, or go against it, this means that corporate won't accept it, which means business goes against it, which means prosumer went against it, trickling all the way down.



    No one in corporate is going to touch vista, that was the first sign of a problem, but it's just crazy, when even consumers don't like it.



    Almost opposite, more then usual amount would upgrade to 10.6 simply because it's so cheap, and Business almost sure will upgrade, due to exchange support.



    And I know one perticular corp, that the major problem of on he mac division is entrouage up the rear problems, that are holding down their eMac fort, which may tip to apple's favor(of the HW kind).



    Exchange was broken by MS on purpose almost to create a barrier for macs. Now all that back logged may flood back in for apple in waves.
  • Reply 70 of 190
    alfiejralfiejr Posts: 1,524member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by experiencemusic View Post


    What is more likely is that Snow Leopard is, admittedly, not a significant upgrade.



    well here is one huge significance you have missed. although you do have to connect some dots:



    - in January Apple introduces iWork 09 (for $20 per seat in family pack), which is now a complete office suite that could completely replace (the ridiculously overpriced @ $135 - the "Microsoft tax") MS Office for Mac users, except that it lacks Exchange/Entourage functions.



    - now in September Apple will add that Exchange support to Snow Leopard, which will enable Mail and iCal to completely replace Entourage for Mac users.



    that makes Snow Leopard the Mac Office 2008-"killer." and since MS makes several hundred million dollars per year selling Office to Mac owners, that is "significant." but even more significant is that it really makes life without any Microsoft product at all very possible for most people. and that is a threat of the gravest possible significance to MS long-term. a complete consumer escape route from their practical everyday multi-platform desktop software-required-by-services hegemony.
  • Reply 71 of 190
    I have a few questions for the author of the article:



    1) Pricing for Windows 7 has not been released yet, therefore how do you claim that Snow Leopard is cheaper? Now, granted, I do not expect Windows 7 to be $29 or less, but still I dont feel you can make that statement.



    2) Richer? Thinner? How can you judge 2 operating systems that are still technically being developed and/or refined. I do not think anyone should conclude anything until final products are released to the consumer.



    3) Have you personally installed Windows 7 RC and used it? How can you make statements and tie it so closely to Vista without using it?



    4) Personally I am sick of all the anti-Vista talk. I think it is time to move on. Vista had its problems when released. Vista was fixed with SP2. Vista was developed further upon and further refined to become Windows 7. Big deal.



    For the record...I am not defending Microsoft (MSFT) nor am I attacking Apple (AAPL). I am just criticizing the author of the article and those who read it and did not ask these same questions.



    How would you like to read a review of the new iPhone that I wrote? Well, no I don't have it, but I have gathered info that others have said and assumed the rest of the information and typed it up...see my point?
  • Reply 72 of 190
    I dont understand what this article was trying to say.



    Why bash neowin? Unlike this site neowin has a lot of apple users and windows users. Neowin tends to be more fair then this site. Dont give me this but its an apple site. Technically neowin would be a windows website but they are much more equal in their support for all things computers.



    Also Vista was a huge rewrite in windows why should 7 be a rewrite when vista did much of that.



    Also For everything that was done in snow leopard the same changes were made in 7



    Apple also apple bashing things that make windows better for somethings is not something they should be doing like bashing the registry. The registry makes things like group policy possible.



    Also i would like to see how much of this making snow leopard faster was just due to removing the legacy code. Something wich microsoft cant due to how many businesses run windows on older systems.







    I have an apple at work and just bought an iphone 3gs but i find how much apple fans and apple themselves bash microsoft to be disgusting.



    PS Microsoft does this with 360 vs nintendo which i find equally disgusgting
  • Reply 73 of 190
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hudson1 View Post


    Somewhere I read that very few Windows users ever pay to upgrade their OS. Sure they do the freebies like the Service Packs but that's usually the extent of it.



    Oh god why would you? I have XP on my windows box and there was no way in hell I was going to upgrade to Vista, even before I heard all the bad press. First of all it would have taken days to get my system back to how I liked it and there would have been no guarantee at all that everything would have worked. Better to stay with the devil you know. If I'm ever forced to get a new win machine I might get Win 7. With the Mac it's a no-brainer - I almost always opt for the latest and greatest software updates.
  • Reply 74 of 190
    kukukuku Posts: 254member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by majortom1981 View Post


    Also Vista was a huge rewrite in windows why should 7 be a rewrite when vista did much of that.



    Also For everything that was done in snow leopard the same changes were made in 7



    Apple also apple bashing things that make windows better for somethings is not something they should be doing like bashing the registry. The registry makes things like group policy possible.



    Also i would like to see how much of this making snow leopard faster was just due to removing the legacy code. Something wich microsoft cant due to how many businesses run windows on older systems.



    That's an understatement.



    SL is in way above and beyond the league of windows 7 (which corp is also saying no, and thus a lot of people again will say no to windows7?)



    SL besides rewriting and refining much of the core OS, also rewrote much of the core apps that support the OS. (OpenCL, GCS, 64bit) all those fancy gimmicks are not gimmicks anymore. They got used into all the native programs, which makes it so much different.



    That's usually a retail-able price tag for other programs as it is, when you rewrite a suite. Features or no features(though there are features, as finder demo showed)



    And registry is horrible. It's doesn't make GP possible. If it did, what is every other OS doing? It's just very hackage, which while easy, is also dangerous and as layed out in the EFF article, in today's world, that's exactly why you shouldn't do it.



    I'm all for easy scripting a GP into every log on. But then, half the time I'm running through my ASNI edit snap in to get something done, and Googling through the massive amounts of group policy edits in management (Which SBS really just makes things worse, but that's another story).



    It's a necessary evil, where you can train yourself to make it work well, but the fact is, it's still an evil hack, that's very dangerous.



    Registry is a evil thing when you consider the amount of trouble it gives the moment you install something to the moment you plug it into the net. Learn the tricks of the trade, yes, but still very bad.





    And the final no is, SL is faster because it is rewritten code. The moment you put threads in line with a GCS thinking, the little things add up, and more responsive. Low level help high level, and high level helps end user. Fixing it so the finder is hooking into the multi-thread management system of GCS and add in the 64bit math codes, and all other low level acronym stuff, and even cocca-ized it, you get across the board speed increases.



    That's one of the factors of a truly modern OS. No longer are we suppose to think OS, as the old days.



    The reason the size shrunk so much is probably because they gutted the PPC though.
  • Reply 75 of 190
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post


    All Core 2 Duo's are 64-bit. I believe so are G5's



    Yes, but G5 can not run Snow Leopard.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TiAdiMundo View Post


    Oh my god...



    First: how you know that Snow Leopard will be cheaper than Windows 7? When you buy a new PC you will get a FREE upgrade to 7 soon. And even owners of old PCs can buy 7 and improve their system without buying new hardware. Snow Leopard only runs on the newest hardware (as you mentioned).



    What's bad of delivering a free preview version of Windows 7 to customers? I smell envy here.



    "Many" users got to downgrade to XP? Many? Where? This was only a very special deal for enterprise customers from some suppliers. And mostly only for netbooks. Show me a < $ 300 netbook that runs Leopard officially, please!



    Apple is rewarding its loyal customers? What? Charging for every single major update even for features that should have been there since 10.0 like the innovative (!) Put Back button in the trash?



    Why is it so difficult for the author to find proper arguments? There are a lot if you just try to think yourselve instead of repeating what Apple says on a marketing event.



    Here are some more questions to ask: when will the Mac see great speech recognition, powerful handwriting recognition (not only for single Chinese characters), Blu-Ray support, full out-of-the-box TV viewing and recording or a resolution indepentend UI like Vista delivers for 2 years now?



    I don't see the benefit of being uncritical to Apple.



    Actually, it's not free. A lot of the money you pay in a computer, goes to Microsoft, and not for the hardware. If you go to Dell, make the same XPS m1330 system, one with Ubuntu Linux, another with Windows Vista (64-bit), and you change the specs on the Windows accordingly -- these are the prices: Windows Vista Home 64-bit, 1,288, Ubuntu 1,064. You'll paying a little over $200's. BTW, I did add stuff, like Office, because Ubuntu actually comes with a full office suite thats actually pretty rock-solid. It's called Open Office, you should try it (it actually works best on Linux, truthfully). So is it free? No, you pay for Windows every time you buy a new computer (and so do with Mac's, too).



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post


    Hmm...



    Supposedly, Windows 7 will be a free upgrade to Vista, call it Vista SP 2 or 3...(really)



    Apple is possibly countering a M$ attack with their $29 upgrade price for Snow Leopard.





    Very few folks pay $300 for Vista.



    Yea, I'm one of them, Ultimate too (what was I thinking?), so I get Windows 7 free supposedly, if and when VMware gets updated for it.



    It and XP just lies around wasting drive space, except when I need to impress or help a PC loser by using Spaces for each running OS.



    Ubuntu isn't bad, gets updated often, lots of small free programs too. It's no OS X, but a good choice for a low powered netbook and boy is it cheap!



    Well, first off, Microsoft can't afford to do that. They really can't. They really only make money with OS sales, it's what they do. But I do hope Windows 7 is cheaper this time around. And Ubuntu is rock solid man. It really is. But Ubuntu (like all Linux) loves it's ram. It's just the truth. But hey, every OS loves their RAM these days -- especially Windows.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by allblue View Post


    I would have thought it was obvious why their marketing department came up with the 'Windows 7' moniker. They knew it would be coming out soon after 10.6, and quite some time before 10.7. This suggests, on a subliminal level, that their operating system is one step ahead of Apple's.



    Thats actually quite interesting.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by emadams1980 View Post


    Fixed Vista? Yeah, they want you to think they have. I beta tested Win7. Crashed my laptop 3 times on install, then once I finally got it work, I didn't find any "fix" to the OS. Still had every problem in the book.



    I know a Mac fan who loves Windows 7.He switched to Mac when he discovered how bad Vista was. And come on, it's beta, every beta is buggy in one way or another.





    And now on to the original post... Leopard is not my favorite OS, nor is it my least. I have found Leopard to be slower in some ways to Tiger, but I think it's mainly I only have 1GB of ram, and Tiger ran better with less RAM. However, even though my computer is three years old, running Leopard on it's bare requirements, my wife's brand new HP laptop, with 4GB's of ram, a faster 64-bit processor (yes, I ensure it was Windows Vista 64-bit)....is slower then my computer. It's slower booting up, it's slower doing day to day things. It locks up a lot. Even more then my Leopard. And, btw, my RAM is DDR2, not 3 (as is her's). So, really, my computer should be slower -- but it's not. She even has an AMD -- which is leads better then Intel -- and her computer can't out do mine. It's just sad.



    I can't wait till I upgrade to Snow Leopard. Bet it will be even faster.



    OH, and yes it only works on Intel processors now (aka, newer machines), but a good amount of Intel Macs are around, and the people on PowerPC's (the majority of them) haven't bought a new mac in less then three years (assuming their PowerPC is their only Mac), and it's even cheaper now to buy a Mac -- so it's a great time to upgrade. Plus we Mac users enjoy our faster computer, even though PC junkies love to say Leopard is a RAM hog (which it may be). But then, why does my computer run circles around my wifes HP? Hmmmm....
  • Reply 76 of 190
    cycomikocycomiko Posts: 716member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DHKOsta View Post


    Traction, no. OSX has momentum.



    yet still doesnt exist on as many computers as Vista, and if the authors of the article are to be believed, vista was a complete and utter failure because of its acceptance rate.



    hmmm great momentum
  • Reply 77 of 190
    quadra 610quadra 610 Posts: 6,756member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by majortom1981 View Post


    I dont understand what this article was trying to say.



    Why bash neowin? Unlike this site neowin has a lot of apple users and windows users. Neowin tends to be more fair then this site. Dont give me this but its an apple site. Technically neowin would be a windows website but they are much more equal in their support for all things computers.



    Also Vista was a huge rewrite in windows why should 7 be a rewrite when vista did much of that.



    Also For everything that was done in snow leopard the same changes were made in 7



    Apple also apple bashing things that make windows better for somethings is not something they should be doing like bashing the registry. The registry makes things like group policy possible.



    Also i would like to see how much of this making snow leopard faster was just due to removing the legacy code. Something wich microsoft cant due to how many businesses run windows on older systems.







    I have an apple at work and just bought an iphone 3gs but i find how much apple fans and apple themselves bash microsoft to be disgusting.



    PS Microsoft does this with 360 vs nintendo which i find equally disgusgting



    Bashing MS is fun. They make it easy. They deserve every bit of it, and then some.



    Neowin censorship is pretty ridiculous. Most Mac fans have left.
  • Reply 78 of 190
    cycomikocycomiko Posts: 716member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post


    Hmm...



    Supposedly, Windows 7 will be a free upgrade to Vista, call it Vista SP 2 or 3...(really)



    SP2 is out, and its not 7



    Its not called SP3



    Quote:

    Apple is possibly countering a M$ attack with their $29 upgrade price for Snow Leopard.



    yep, just like their reduction of notebook prices (well, in USA)
  • Reply 79 of 190
    Well CrApple is already so afraid of Windows 7 cause they know they will get their a*s kicked. Anyways there's nothing you guys can do to save this crap os x from extinction cause 7 will haunt and kill you down LOL
  • Reply 80 of 190
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleSucks View Post


    Well CrApple is already so afraid of Windows 7 cause they know they will get their a*s kicked. Anyways there's nothing you guys can do to save this crap os x from extinction cause 7 will haunt and kill you down LOL



    really lets see Winshi*7 then?
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