I'd like to know if the TomTom adapter will let me use my iPod Touch for GPS while I'm driving since it doesn't have GPS at all.
I was wondering that, too. Hopefully, TomTom's accessory isn't just an external antenna relying on the iPhone's GPS tuner to decode the signals. If it includes the tuner, that hopefully a touch would be able to use it, too.
I was wondering that, too. Hopefully, TomTom's accessory isn't just an external antenna relying on the iPhone's GPS tuner to decode the signals. If it includes the tuner, that hopefully a touch would be able to use it, too.
I'm sure TomTom's unit has its own GPS, since I don't see how you could connect a GPS antenna to the one in the iPhone. (I doubt Apple wasted dock pins on antenna-in for the GPS.)
I'm sure TomTom's unit has its own GPS, since I don't see how you could connect a GPS antenna to the one in the iPhone. (I doubt Apple wasted dock pins on antenna-in for the GPS.)
So iPod Touch functionality is a good question!
There is an API for the GPS and the API for the 30-pin connector. Perhaps they aren?t using their own radio but just the available APIs to extend the antenna.
Apple branched into phones, and I think they did alright.
Garmin will branch into phones, and while I don't think they'll have anything anywhere near as good as the iPhone, I seriously doubt it will mean the end of the company, as others have pointed out.
It makes me wonder when so many people have to have "either/or". "It will be a huge success and make the company the biggest on earth OR it will be terrible and take the entire company down with it and into bankruptcy."
Sheeeeeeeeesh.
Garmin could change their mind in one meeting and have software and possibly hardware for the iPhone if they so choose, and still bring out a phone of their own if they so choose.
Garmin is not going to die just because they aren't writing an app for the iPhone.
And I don't think Wendy's, or Nissan, or The World Wildlife Fun are all going to go out of business either because they aren't making an app for the iPhone.
Why does everything have to be on the iPhone or be an iPhone killer?
I love the iPhone but it ain't perfect.
It's getting a lot better and additions like GPS Nav are great, but the rest of the world isn't going to collapse if they don't make a "No World Collapse Allowed" app for the iPhone.
They could elect to release an iPhone app at some point, but there may be a narrowing window of opportunity to grab mindshare for the platform.
It's not just about the iPhone, and it's not just about Garmin, it's about the rise of pocketable, general purpose computers and how they're going to replace a lot of special purpose handheld devices.
It's happening to dedicated media players, it's happening to the lower end of cameras, it's going to happen to the lower end of camcorders, and it certainly is happening to dedicated GPS devices.
A company like Garmin may not be going out of business, but it's not unreasonable to figure that the market for their consumer GPS devices is going to drastically shrink over the next year or two. If they were smart, they would be poring resources into developing best of breed apps for third party devices, instead of trying to develop their own version of such devices.
I think that maybe some people imagine that a strong brand will mean that people will remain loyal to the old technological model, but for a while people thought that about typewriter manufacturers like Royal. The death of the typewriter wasn't about a particular electronic world processor defeating a particular typewriter. It was about an inevitable shift in how most people thought about putting text on a page engendered by new technology.
I think devices like the iPhone are going to typewriter-ize a bunch of stuff that people assumed would be around forever.
I've used Garmins, TomToms, and Navigons, and the best of the best in my opinion are the Navigons, so I'm very happy to see that Navigon will be making an iPhone app. Everyone always claims Garmin is the best, but ever since I purchased a Navigon, I'd never go back to Garmin.
Shaine,
Have not used Garmins or TomToms (except fiddling in store), but am a Navigon fan too.
I hope they'll include the lifetime traffic updates, so traffic will be more extensive and in real-time than Google Maps' traffic.
Regarding why Navigon is better...they tried the premium product route, and developed beautiful GPS navigation technology, but got crushed by $100 nuvi and co.
Regarding Garmin...they must be locked into a contract, or strapped for R & D cash.
Why reinvent the wheel? Even the slower 3G connection has to beat out stand alone GPS satellite speeds, and the Apple touch screen and color and resolution...need I say more? Sounds like everyone but Garmin saw the handwriting on the wall.
Considering how Apple gave TomTom a keynote slot, I would imagine TomTom could use their relationship with Apple to tailor GPS software into a whole communications interface designed for driving, including large buttons and simplified menus for iPod, AddressBook, iCal, etc.
I read (maybe in this thread, I don't know) that APPLE is working on the software and TomTom on the hardware, so it seems to me that the TomTom app/device combination certainly has the upper hand when it comes to the iPhone and probably the touch, if not the 2G, then certainly the 3G touch.
I hadn't really thought about, but the 3G touch (due September?) could easily have GPS. If it doesn't, there are bluetooth GPS devices out there that could be interfaced with.
Personally I'm hoping it'll be fully capable of being a VoIP phone too.
It's not just about the iPhone, and it's not just about Garmin, it's about the rise of pocketable, general purpose computers and how they're going to replace a lot of special purpose handheld devices.
And I think the iPhone has shown that in that space the software is more important than the hardware. Apple has a great development environment with XCode, and great APIs, libraries, etc. with Cocoa. THAT is the differentiator, and Apple is way ahead of the competition.
Garmin has experience and expertise making handheld widgets, but I have no idea how they are at providing development platforms. Maybe their Android partnership will work out; they could create a very nice Android phone/device.
If Garmin announced that they plan to come out with a better/more specialized line of Nuvi GPS units, people wouldn't scoff so much. But unfortunately, announcing a new smart phone these days sounds like a desperate me-too move in the wake of the iPhone's shakeup of the industry. People are tired of even reading the words "iPhone killer" (much like "iPod killer" before that) when all of the hyped devices to date (except possibly the Pre, but that remains to be seen) have been inferior catch-up attempts. In another year or so it will be clear that the smart phone market will distill down to three or four platforms, and the Nuvi will not be one of them.
And this is strange, since Garmin has had a better-than-average relationship with Apple in the past. They had large booths at MacWorld, and despite infuriating delays have been one of the few GPS companies to provide native OSX software when everyone else was Windows-only.
I suspect what happened (and I haven't researched the timeline yet) is Garmin planned the Nuvi Phone idea before the iPhone was even announced, and felt it was too late to abandon the effort. But then the iPhone did appear, and probably made Garmin's work to date seem so primitive that they had to start over like Palm. And by then their corporate pride wouldn't allow the management to admit that they should drop the phone idea entirely and keep their focus on strict GPS devices and applications.
One would think they should know better by now. Earlier Nuvi models included MP3 players and other functionality tangential to GPS navigation, and that has been a waste of device resources. Why add a mediocre phone to the mix?
Garmin <snip> In another year or so it will be clear that the smart phone market will distill down to three or four platforms, and the Nuvi will not be one of them.
I have to wonder if the focus on a different platform can allow Garmin to be the only option. I mean, if Garmin had an app for WinMobile and Android, it would leave it in a good place. Possibly better than being 1 of 4 on the iPhone.
And I think the iPhone has shown that in that space the software is more important than the hardware. Apple has a great development environment with XCode, and great APIs, libraries, etc. with Cocoa. THAT is the differentiator, and Apple is way ahead of the competition.
Garmin has experience and expertise making handheld widgets, but I have no idea how they are at providing development platforms. Maybe their Android partnership will work out; they could create a very nice Android phone/device.
- Jasen.
Exactly, which is why the "Apple branched out into phones, why can't Garmin do so as well" argument doesn't hold much water.
Apple didn't actually branch out into phones so much as make a really small Mac with a phone app, something that's going to get clearer and clearer as the software and hardware continue to evolve.
With a general purpose computing device and robust developer enviroment, Apple can replicate the functionality of dedicated devices in software, something they have a lost of experience and expertise at.
Is Garmin in a position to do the same? It's like expecting Avid to compete with the Mac by "leveraging" its video editing expertise and bringing out a line of general purpose computers.
I wouldn't have to imagine that Avid was doomed to figure such a move wasn't likely to do them much good.
I'd like to know if the TomTom adapter will let me use my iPod Touch for GPS while I'm driving since it doesn't have GPS at all.
I thought the iPod Touch doesn't actually have a GPS chip, but instead like the 1st gen iPhone uses WiFi to best guess its position, in which case it could never be used as an actual GPS (it would take to long, have limited reception, and would always be inaccurate).
I thought the iPod Touch doesn't actually have a GPS chip, but instead like the 1st gen iPhone uses WiFi to best guess its position, in which case it could never be used as an actual GPS (it would take to long, have limited reception, and would always be inaccurate).
Yes the iPod Touch doesn't have GPS. Nor does the original iPhone - but if your city has been scanned by SkyHookWireless then it can be reasonably accurate using wifi access points. If the phone was smart enough to know it was 10 seconds behind in its location data, and use accelerometer to notice turns etc, it could simulate GPS reasonably well. Go outside the city areas and you'd be in trouble though!
Similarly, the iPod Touch knows the wifi points around it, but without an open data connection it can't look up where that wifi point corresponds to. Perhaps in an ideal world the iPod Touch could reverse-lookup all the expected wifi points along its route when it found an open connection, to use as it went - but I doubt anyone will bother programming that feature.
edit: a 10MB file could contain a million wifi addresses... so converted into a 100MB database you could cover your local city easily with preloaded wifi->GPS data. If anyone wanted to bother building that into a nav program.
Comments
Garmin has a pretty good track record with devices....
Yep, they started off making fish finders - maybe they can fall back on that.
I'd like to know if the TomTom adapter will let me use my iPod Touch for GPS while I'm driving since it doesn't have GPS at all.
I was wondering that, too. Hopefully, TomTom's accessory isn't just an external antenna relying on the iPhone's GPS tuner to decode the signals. If it includes the tuner, that hopefully a touch would be able to use it, too.
I was wondering that, too. Hopefully, TomTom's accessory isn't just an external antenna relying on the iPhone's GPS tuner to decode the signals. If it includes the tuner, that hopefully a touch would be able to use it, too.
I'm sure TomTom's unit has its own GPS, since I don't see how you could connect a GPS antenna to the one in the iPhone. (I doubt Apple wasted dock pins on antenna-in for the GPS.)
So iPod Touch functionality is a good question!
I'm sure TomTom's unit has its own GPS, since I don't see how you could connect a GPS antenna to the one in the iPhone. (I doubt Apple wasted dock pins on antenna-in for the GPS.)
So iPod Touch functionality is a good question!
There is an API for the GPS and the API for the 30-pin connector. Perhaps they aren?t using their own radio but just the available APIs to extend the antenna.
Garmin will branch into phones, and while I don't think they'll have anything anywhere near as good as the iPhone, I seriously doubt it will mean the end of the company, as others have pointed out.
It makes me wonder when so many people have to have "either/or". "It will be a huge success and make the company the biggest on earth OR it will be terrible and take the entire company down with it and into bankruptcy."
Sheeeeeeeeesh.
Garmin could change their mind in one meeting and have software and possibly hardware for the iPhone if they so choose, and still bring out a phone of their own if they so choose.
Garmin is not going to die just because they aren't writing an app for the iPhone.
And I don't think Wendy's, or Nissan, or The World Wildlife Fun are all going to go out of business either because they aren't making an app for the iPhone.
Why does everything have to be on the iPhone or be an iPhone killer?
I love the iPhone but it ain't perfect.
It's getting a lot better and additions like GPS Nav are great, but the rest of the world isn't going to collapse if they don't make a "No World Collapse Allowed" app for the iPhone.
Greg
It's not just about the iPhone, and it's not just about Garmin, it's about the rise of pocketable, general purpose computers and how they're going to replace a lot of special purpose handheld devices.
It's happening to dedicated media players, it's happening to the lower end of cameras, it's going to happen to the lower end of camcorders, and it certainly is happening to dedicated GPS devices.
A company like Garmin may not be going out of business, but it's not unreasonable to figure that the market for their consumer GPS devices is going to drastically shrink over the next year or two. If they were smart, they would be poring resources into developing best of breed apps for third party devices, instead of trying to develop their own version of such devices.
I think that maybe some people imagine that a strong brand will mean that people will remain loyal to the old technological model, but for a while people thought that about typewriter manufacturers like Royal. The death of the typewriter wasn't about a particular electronic world processor defeating a particular typewriter. It was about an inevitable shift in how most people thought about putting text on a page engendered by new technology.
I think devices like the iPhone are going to typewriter-ize a bunch of stuff that people assumed would be around forever.
I've used Garmins, TomToms, and Navigons, and the best of the best in my opinion are the Navigons, so I'm very happy to see that Navigon will be making an iPhone app. Everyone always claims Garmin is the best, but ever since I purchased a Navigon, I'd never go back to Garmin.
Shaine,
Have not used Garmins or TomToms (except fiddling in store), but am a Navigon fan too.
I hope they'll include the lifetime traffic updates, so traffic will be more extensive and in real-time than Google Maps' traffic.
Regarding why Navigon is better...they tried the premium product route, and developed beautiful GPS navigation technology, but got crushed by $100 nuvi and co.
Regarding Garmin...they must be locked into a contract, or strapped for R & D cash.
Why reinvent the wheel? Even the slower 3G connection has to beat out stand alone GPS satellite speeds, and the Apple touch screen and color and resolution...need I say more? Sounds like everyone but Garmin saw the handwriting on the wall.
Considering how Apple gave TomTom a keynote slot, I would imagine TomTom could use their relationship with Apple to tailor GPS software into a whole communications interface designed for driving, including large buttons and simplified menus for iPod, AddressBook, iCal, etc.
if not the 2G, then certainly the 3G touch.
I hadn't really thought about, but the 3G touch (due September?) could easily have GPS. If it doesn't, there are bluetooth GPS devices out there that could be interfaced with.
Personally I'm hoping it'll be fully capable of being a VoIP phone too.
It's not just about the iPhone, and it's not just about Garmin, it's about the rise of pocketable, general purpose computers and how they're going to replace a lot of special purpose handheld devices.
And I think the iPhone has shown that in that space the software is more important than the hardware. Apple has a great development environment with XCode, and great APIs, libraries, etc. with Cocoa. THAT is the differentiator, and Apple is way ahead of the competition.
Garmin has experience and expertise making handheld widgets, but I have no idea how they are at providing development platforms. Maybe their Android partnership will work out; they could create a very nice Android phone/device.
- Jasen.
And this is strange, since Garmin has had a better-than-average relationship with Apple in the past. They had large booths at MacWorld, and despite infuriating delays have been one of the few GPS companies to provide native OSX software when everyone else was Windows-only.
I suspect what happened (and I haven't researched the timeline yet) is Garmin planned the Nuvi Phone idea before the iPhone was even announced, and felt it was too late to abandon the effort. But then the iPhone did appear, and probably made Garmin's work to date seem so primitive that they had to start over like Palm. And by then their corporate pride wouldn't allow the management to admit that they should drop the phone idea entirely and keep their focus on strict GPS devices and applications.
One would think they should know better by now. Earlier Nuvi models included MP3 players and other functionality tangential to GPS navigation, and that has been a waste of device resources. Why add a mediocre phone to the mix?
Garmin <snip> In another year or so it will be clear that the smart phone market will distill down to three or four platforms, and the Nuvi will not be one of them.
I have to wonder if the focus on a different platform can allow Garmin to be the only option. I mean, if Garmin had an app for WinMobile and Android, it would leave it in a good place. Possibly better than being 1 of 4 on the iPhone.
And I think the iPhone has shown that in that space the software is more important than the hardware. Apple has a great development environment with XCode, and great APIs, libraries, etc. with Cocoa. THAT is the differentiator, and Apple is way ahead of the competition.
Garmin has experience and expertise making handheld widgets, but I have no idea how they are at providing development platforms. Maybe their Android partnership will work out; they could create a very nice Android phone/device.
- Jasen.
Exactly, which is why the "Apple branched out into phones, why can't Garmin do so as well" argument doesn't hold much water.
Apple didn't actually branch out into phones so much as make a really small Mac with a phone app, something that's going to get clearer and clearer as the software and hardware continue to evolve.
With a general purpose computing device and robust developer enviroment, Apple can replicate the functionality of dedicated devices in software, something they have a lost of experience and expertise at.
Is Garmin in a position to do the same? It's like expecting Avid to compete with the Mac by "leveraging" its video editing expertise and bringing out a line of general purpose computers.
I wouldn't have to imagine that Avid was doomed to figure such a move wasn't likely to do them much good.
I'd like to know if the TomTom adapter will let me use my iPod Touch for GPS while I'm driving since it doesn't have GPS at all.
I thought the iPod Touch doesn't actually have a GPS chip, but instead like the 1st gen iPhone uses WiFi to best guess its position, in which case it could never be used as an actual GPS (it would take to long, have limited reception, and would always be inaccurate).
I thought the iPod Touch doesn't actually have a GPS chip, but instead like the 1st gen iPhone uses WiFi to best guess its position, in which case it could never be used as an actual GPS (it would take to long, have limited reception, and would always be inaccurate).
Yes the iPod Touch doesn't have GPS. Nor does the original iPhone - but if your city has been scanned by SkyHookWireless then it can be reasonably accurate using wifi access points. If the phone was smart enough to know it was 10 seconds behind in its location data, and use accelerometer to notice turns etc, it could simulate GPS reasonably well. Go outside the city areas and you'd be in trouble though!
Similarly, the iPod Touch knows the wifi points around it, but without an open data connection it can't look up where that wifi point corresponds to. Perhaps in an ideal world the iPod Touch could reverse-lookup all the expected wifi points along its route when it found an open connection, to use as it went - but I doubt anyone will bother programming that feature.
edit: a 10MB file could contain a million wifi addresses... so converted into a 100MB database you could cover your local city easily with preloaded wifi->GPS data. If anyone wanted to bother building that into a nav program.