It seems to me that you're fixated on the tech specs and forgetting some of the other specifications that are key in a laptop: weight, size, battery life and build quality. Those are top priorities for me, as long as they don't seriously compromise performance/connectivity (hence no MacBook Air for me). So, no, your Dell doesn't even begin to compare to the 15" MacBook Pro.
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer
How big is it?
If you tell me which particular Dell you're thinking of, I'll answer this for you as you haven't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer
but good luck changing the battery when it dies on ya...
If you mean replacing it after those 1000 recharge cycles are up, have you not seen the tear-downs? Replacing these batteries is very easy. If you mean replacing the battery when it dies after 7 hours to give you another 7 hours - there are plenty of external battery packs on the market, even some huge one that'll give another 20 hours run time! The benefits of a "built-in" (in quotes as it's not soldered in) battery easily outweigh the supposed drawbacks (there aren't any IMHO).
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer
All track pads suck, even apples, no, dell isnt using multitouch and glass, but sheesh, I have used laptops exclusively for almost 2 uyears and almost never touch the track pad, who doesnt use an external mouse?
Sure, I can mouse a lot faster with a mouse, but the trackpad doesn't suck. I use the multi-touch gestures all the time and the fact that it's glass means that it doesn't misbehave with sweaty fingers and won't age like other trackpads. It is easily the best built-in laptop pointing device I've ever used.
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer
Powered firewire? Yup
I suspect you're wrong. It's probably the non-powered Firewire 400 type.
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer
Target disk mode? no but it can boot to any usb device, flash or what have you
Those are not equivalents.
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer
Does the $2000 MBP have any blue ray option? Nope - it is an extra $150on the Dell, Hell, Dell even has an option for a BD BURNER...
I whole-heartedly agree. Apple's insistence on ignoring blu-ray is starting to piss me off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer
HDMI? Heck no
That's odd, because I've plugged my MacBook Pro (and MacBook before that) into my 50" plasma via its HDMI input port several times, and used it to watch HDCP protected content from the iTunes store. You do realise that HDMI is just DVI+audio? So all you need is a Display Port to DVI adaptor and a DVI to HDMI cable? Presumably, display port to HDMI cables will appear at some point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer
Card reader? Apple reads 1 type,the Dell reads 8
Oh noes!
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer
GPU Memory: the $1999 MBP has 256, the dell has 512
Dell wins.
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer
PCCard slot? Nope, Apple took that away
Because less than 1% of people use them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer
integrated cell internet? no go on apple
Nice to have if you're a real road-warrior, but there's always USB sticks for everyone else.
Although they've gotten quite a bit better with that as of late. For instance, you can bump the new 13" MacBook Pro from 2 to 4 gigs for $100 bucks, compared to the $50 it would cost to buy a 2GB stick. Not a deal, by any means, but not remotely the insanity of yore. Actually in line with the likes of Dell.
However, the jump to 8GB for the 15 inchers is still quite mad at a cool grand, I see.
OWC:
8.0GB Upgrade Kit
(4.0GB Modules x 2 Set)
$634.99
$365 less than Apple asks. Less than 2/3 of what Apple asks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Me
Macs use standard RAM. It does not magically become more expensive because you buy it for a Mac.
Certainly not magically more expensive. What would you call it?
Certainly not magically more expensive. What would you call it?
I think Mr. Me misunderstood. He thought that the poster he was replying to was saying that RAM for Macs is expensive, full stop. In fact, the poster meant that specifically Apple charge rip-off prices for RAM upgrades, which is true and probably always will be.
Yes, as I say, quite mad. But the move from 2 to 4 gigs is fairly reasonable, whereas before it was also insane, so perhaps there is hope.
I don't share your assessment that the upgrade from 2 to 4 is reasonable. The 2 gig configuration is 2 x 1 GiB, and the 4 gig is 2 x 2 GiB. So, Apple takes out two sticks worth $13 each, and puts in two sticks worth $24 each (prices from newegg.com). A fair upgrade price would therefore be $22, but Apple charges $100, or in other words, 355% too much.
I don't share your assessment that the upgrade from 2 to 4 is reasonable. The 2 gig configuration is 2 x 1 GiB, and the 4 gig is 2 x 2 GiB. So, Apple takes out two sticks worth $13 each, and puts in two sticks worth $24 each (prices from newegg.com). A fair upgrade price would therefore be $22, but Apple charges $100, or in other words, 355% too much.
Pretty much what Dell charges for a similar upgrade, so while it might not be "fair" it doesn't seem be the old style Apple crazy.
Pretty much what Dell charges for a similar upgrade, so while it might not be "fair" it doesn't seem be the old style Apple crazy.
It never ceases to amaze me that some people can get so exercised over prices that they are not required to pay. Apple offers memory as a convenience to its customers. Convenience pricing is expensive. Complaining about Apple RAM pricing makes about as much sense as complaining about the grocery prices in the 7-Eleven that is across the street from a Safeway supermarket.
It never ceases to amaze me that some people can get so exercised over prices that they are not required to pay. Apple offers memory as a convenience to its customers. Convenience pricing is expensive. Complaining about Apple RAM pricing makes about as much sense as complaining about the grocery prices in the 7-Eleven that is across the street from a Safeway supermarket.
I feel you are putting me down. Your comments may be true if you're not technically challenged like some of us. I'll bet you wouldn't fix a broken transmission in your car that would be a lot less expensive than letting the dealer fix it. It's all a matter of perspective. How about it? Would you fix something like that? There are manuals that would lead you step by step to accomplish the repair. I know it's many degrees beyond upgrading a computer, but the situation is the same. I know that if I missed a step, I could go back and redo it. I doubt that's true of a piece of electronic gear. I've rebuilt and fixed every aspect of a car, but I'm unwilling to dig into electronic equipment.
I'd be uncomfortable delving into a Mini, for example, even though the process has been discussed step by step by Marvin in this forum. I'd be concerned that I'd do something wrong that would mess up the Mini and void the warranty. That concern would put me in a position of either paying Apple's exorbitant RAM prices or not having maximum RAM. I'm sure that puts many, many of other users in the same position. Otherwise, Apple wouldn't be able to sell many upgrades. So, your comment doesn't hold water
Edit: I have to qualify my above comments. I USED to do all my own car repairs. I stopped doing that when electronics began showing up in newer cars.
$365 less than Apple asks. Less than 2/3 of what Apple asks.
Certainly not magically more expensive. What would you call it?
What I find hilarious is that you carry on this concern. It's a well known fact that Apple charges more for RAM that anyone can purchase from third parties.
If you can't put RAM in the new systems you shouldn't be handling large machinery let alone a computer.
I don't want to start a flame war over whether or not Macs are "too expensive". I'm simply asking a hypothetical question.
Given two computers with totally identical specs (CPU, hard drive, RAM, USB ports, webcam, etc), how much more would you pay for one with OS X as opposed to one with Windows (XP, Vista, or 7), either in percentage of the price or in dollars?
Hackintoshes don't factor in, since this is a hypothetical question.
Personally, I'd be prepared to pay up to 50% more, but that's just me.
I wouldn't pay any extra for OS X if the hardware was the same. Most Linux users would argue 'if your going to use OS X sure buy a Mac otherwise don't pay the premium -- Get a Dell they have great Ubuntu compatability."
However I really like the design of the Macbooks and the Unibody Macbooks are sublime. Even though there are features that are annoying like SD card slot that sticks out (my linux laptop always has an SD card sitting in it for convenient backup) and it's annoying having to buy converters for the three outputs I need VGA (projectors), HDMI (plasma TV), and DVI (Dell 24" LCD). Finally lack of Blu Ray is for me inconvenient as I like to buy blu ray movies when on business trips and watch them on my laptop and then use them conventionally when at home.
When it comes down to OSs some people need a particular operating system for an application or driver support and others feel their OS is just better (prejudice or preference). Personally Linux does 90% of what I need as does OS X but I rather like the freedom of FOSS (preference) so I install Ubuntu too. Windows has the best hardware compatability and a wide range of applications I either need to run under Wine, VM, or Windows. I choose to install Windows too (it is the one OS that gives me the most options and widest application and hardware support). Finally it is handy to keep OS X on a Mac laptop so I'd run it too although it doesn't have any applications that I need.
Finally OS X and Linux flash implementations are as slow as a dog and until HTML5 replaces flash for online video this is a pain.
So to summarise, for me there is no justification for paying a penny extra for OS X for others it will be different. The hardware I would pay a small premium for maybe up to $100.
What I find hilarious is that you carry on this concern. It's a well known fact that Apple charges more for RAM that anyone can purchase from third parties.
If you can't put RAM in the new systems you shouldn't be handling large machinery let alone a computer.
Hilarious? I'm glad you're so easily amused. I'll bet you roar with laughter when someone breaks a leg.
What is it with some of you people? You're not 'hilarious' unless you're attacking another member. Get a life
BTW, don't state facts not in evidence. I have been using computers since the early 1980's (before they even had HDD's) and have always "serviced" my own computers. I have built computers, but that was just putting parts together. I have installed RAM, HDD's, cards, and other 'stuff' on all my computers; however, it was always in a computer that was built to open like my old PC's and G4, not one that you have to "break" into like a Mini. It's that breaking into and having to be concerned about not screwing something up that has me worried. I don't want to do something wrong, void the warranty, and be stuck with a bad computer that isn't covered. Apple has not seen fit to make it easy to open and augment the Mini.
Comments
How big is it?
If you tell me which particular Dell you're thinking of, I'll answer this for you as you haven't.
but good luck changing the battery when it dies on ya...
If you mean replacing it after those 1000 recharge cycles are up, have you not seen the tear-downs? Replacing these batteries is very easy. If you mean replacing the battery when it dies after 7 hours to give you another 7 hours - there are plenty of external battery packs on the market, even some huge one that'll give another 20 hours run time! The benefits of a "built-in" (in quotes as it's not soldered in) battery easily outweigh the supposed drawbacks (there aren't any IMHO).
All track pads suck, even apples, no, dell isnt using multitouch and glass, but sheesh, I have used laptops exclusively for almost 2 uyears and almost never touch the track pad, who doesnt use an external mouse?
Sure, I can mouse a lot faster with a mouse, but the trackpad doesn't suck. I use the multi-touch gestures all the time and the fact that it's glass means that it doesn't misbehave with sweaty fingers and won't age like other trackpads. It is easily the best built-in laptop pointing device I've ever used.
Powered firewire? Yup
I suspect you're wrong. It's probably the non-powered Firewire 400 type.
Target disk mode? no but it can boot to any usb device, flash or what have you
Those are not equivalents.
Does the $2000 MBP have any blue ray option? Nope - it is an extra $150on the Dell, Hell, Dell even has an option for a BD BURNER...
I whole-heartedly agree. Apple's insistence on ignoring blu-ray is starting to piss me off.
HDMI? Heck no
That's odd, because I've plugged my MacBook Pro (and MacBook before that) into my 50" plasma via its HDMI input port several times, and used it to watch HDCP protected content from the iTunes store. You do realise that HDMI is just DVI+audio? So all you need is a Display Port to DVI adaptor and a DVI to HDMI cable? Presumably, display port to HDMI cables will appear at some point.
Card reader? Apple reads 1 type,the Dell reads 8
Oh noes!
GPU Memory: the $1999 MBP has 256, the dell has 512
Dell wins.
PCCard slot? Nope, Apple took that away
Because less than 1% of people use them.
integrated cell internet? no go on apple
Nice to have if you're a real road-warrior, but there's always USB sticks for everyone else.
Although they've gotten quite a bit better with that as of late. For instance, you can bump the new 13" MacBook Pro from 2 to 4 gigs for $100 bucks, compared to the $50 it would cost to buy a 2GB stick. Not a deal, by any means, but not remotely the insanity of yore. Actually in line with the likes of Dell.
However, the jump to 8GB for the 15 inchers is still quite mad at a cool grand, I see.
OWC:
8.0GB Upgrade Kit
(4.0GB Modules x 2 Set)
$634.99
$365 less than Apple asks. Less than 2/3 of what Apple asks.
Macs use standard RAM. It does not magically become more expensive because you buy it for a Mac.
Certainly not magically more expensive. What would you call it?
Certainly not magically more expensive. What would you call it?
I think Mr. Me misunderstood. He thought that the poster he was replying to was saying that RAM for Macs is expensive, full stop. In fact, the poster meant that specifically Apple charge rip-off prices for RAM upgrades, which is true and probably always will be.
OWC:
8.0GB Upgrade Kit
(4.0GB Modules x 2 Set)
$634.99
$365 less than Apple asks. Less than 2/3 of what Apple asks.
Yes, as I say, quite mad. But the move from 2 to 4 gigs is fairly reasonable, whereas before it was also insane, so perhaps there is hope.
Yes, as I say, quite mad. But the move from 2 to 4 gigs is fairly reasonable, whereas before it was also insane, so perhaps there is hope.
I don't share your assessment that the upgrade from 2 to 4 is reasonable. The 2 gig configuration is 2 x 1 GiB, and the 4 gig is 2 x 2 GiB. So, Apple takes out two sticks worth $13 each, and puts in two sticks worth $24 each (prices from newegg.com). A fair upgrade price would therefore be $22, but Apple charges $100, or in other words, 355% too much.
I don't share your assessment that the upgrade from 2 to 4 is reasonable. The 2 gig configuration is 2 x 1 GiB, and the 4 gig is 2 x 2 GiB. So, Apple takes out two sticks worth $13 each, and puts in two sticks worth $24 each (prices from newegg.com). A fair upgrade price would therefore be $22, but Apple charges $100, or in other words, 355% too much.
Pretty much what Dell charges for a similar upgrade, so while it might not be "fair" it doesn't seem be the old style Apple crazy.
Pretty much what Dell charges for a similar upgrade, so while it might not be "fair" it doesn't seem be the old style Apple crazy.
It never ceases to amaze me that some people can get so exercised over prices that they are not required to pay. Apple offers memory as a convenience to its customers. Convenience pricing is expensive. Complaining about Apple RAM pricing makes about as much sense as complaining about the grocery prices in the 7-Eleven that is across the street from a Safeway supermarket.
It never ceases to amaze me that some people can get so exercised over prices that they are not required to pay. Apple offers memory as a convenience to its customers. Convenience pricing is expensive. Complaining about Apple RAM pricing makes about as much sense as complaining about the grocery prices in the 7-Eleven that is across the street from a Safeway supermarket.
I feel you are putting me down. Your comments may be true if you're not technically challenged like some of us. I'll bet you wouldn't fix a broken transmission in your car that would be a lot less expensive than letting the dealer fix it. It's all a matter of perspective. How about it? Would you fix something like that? There are manuals that would lead you step by step to accomplish the repair. I know it's many degrees beyond upgrading a computer, but the situation is the same. I know that if I missed a step, I could go back and redo it. I doubt that's true of a piece of electronic gear. I've rebuilt and fixed every aspect of a car, but I'm unwilling to dig into electronic equipment.
I'd be uncomfortable delving into a Mini, for example, even though the process has been discussed step by step by Marvin in this forum. I'd be concerned that I'd do something wrong that would mess up the Mini and void the warranty. That concern would put me in a position of either paying Apple's exorbitant RAM prices or not having maximum RAM. I'm sure that puts many, many of other users in the same position. Otherwise, Apple wouldn't be able to sell many upgrades. So, your comment doesn't hold water
Edit: I have to qualify my above comments. I USED to do all my own car repairs. I stopped doing that when electronics began showing up in newer cars.
I feel you are putting me down. Your comments may be true if you're not technically challenged like some of us. ...
Boo-hoo. Convenience pricing does not discriminate between those who need the convenience and those who don't.
Boo-hoo. Convenience pricing does not discriminate between those who need the convenience and those who don't.
That's quite a rebuttal, but avoids the point. You were probably on your high school debating team.
OWC:
8.0GB Upgrade Kit
(4.0GB Modules x 2 Set)
$634.99
$365 less than Apple asks. Less than 2/3 of what Apple asks.
Certainly not magically more expensive. What would you call it?
What I find hilarious is that you carry on this concern. It's a well known fact that Apple charges more for RAM that anyone can purchase from third parties.
If you can't put RAM in the new systems you shouldn't be handling large machinery let alone a computer.
I don't want to start a flame war over whether or not Macs are "too expensive". I'm simply asking a hypothetical question.
Given two computers with totally identical specs (CPU, hard drive, RAM, USB ports, webcam, etc), how much more would you pay for one with OS X as opposed to one with Windows (XP, Vista, or 7), either in percentage of the price or in dollars?
Hackintoshes don't factor in, since this is a hypothetical question.
Personally, I'd be prepared to pay up to 50% more, but that's just me.
I wouldn't pay any extra for OS X if the hardware was the same. Most Linux users would argue 'if your going to use OS X sure buy a Mac otherwise don't pay the premium -- Get a Dell they have great Ubuntu compatability."
However I really like the design of the Macbooks and the Unibody Macbooks are sublime. Even though there are features that are annoying like SD card slot that sticks out (my linux laptop always has an SD card sitting in it for convenient backup) and it's annoying having to buy converters for the three outputs I need VGA (projectors), HDMI (plasma TV), and DVI (Dell 24" LCD). Finally lack of Blu Ray is for me inconvenient as I like to buy blu ray movies when on business trips and watch them on my laptop and then use them conventionally when at home.
When it comes down to OSs some people need a particular operating system for an application or driver support and others feel their OS is just better (prejudice or preference). Personally Linux does 90% of what I need as does OS X but I rather like the freedom of FOSS (preference) so I install Ubuntu too. Windows has the best hardware compatability and a wide range of applications I either need to run under Wine, VM, or Windows. I choose to install Windows too (it is the one OS that gives me the most options and widest application and hardware support). Finally it is handy to keep OS X on a Mac laptop so I'd run it too although it doesn't have any applications that I need.
Finally OS X and Linux flash implementations are as slow as a dog and until HTML5 replaces flash for online video this is a pain.
So to summarise, for me there is no justification for paying a penny extra for OS X for others it will be different. The hardware I would pay a small premium for maybe up to $100.
What I find hilarious is that you carry on this concern. It's a well known fact that Apple charges more for RAM that anyone can purchase from third parties.
If you can't put RAM in the new systems you shouldn't be handling large machinery let alone a computer.
Hilarious? I'm glad you're so easily amused. I'll bet you roar with laughter when someone breaks a leg.
What is it with some of you people? You're not 'hilarious' unless you're attacking another member. Get a life
BTW, don't state facts not in evidence. I have been using computers since the early 1980's (before they even had HDD's) and have always "serviced" my own computers. I have built computers, but that was just putting parts together. I have installed RAM, HDD's, cards, and other 'stuff' on all my computers; however, it was always in a computer that was built to open like my old PC's and G4, not one that you have to "break" into like a Mini. It's that breaking into and having to be concerned about not screwing something up that has me worried. I don't want to do something wrong, void the warranty, and be stuck with a bad computer that isn't covered. Apple has not seen fit to make it easy to open and augment the Mini.