<strong>You people making it sound like you can't change anything. You can change your desktop pics, screen savers, and icons. That isn't to say that Apple shouldn't offer a few more options, but part of the reason OS 7-9 sucked was that people had too much control. They messed up the OS which made outsiders think "Macs Suck" even more. Diversity on a computer equals unstable, which is not something any user should want. If we get themes they should be Apple's themes and not system hacks that somebody dreams up.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm not an idiot. I have Duality and I've customized my themes more than once. I usually return to Aqua anyway, but it's not like it's a really unsafe program. Not only will it always give you the option of restoring Aqua, but it'll also catch problematic themes before they do any damage to your system.
Really, Apple keeps assuming that all their customers are really stupid. Sure, some of them are, but some of them aren't. You should be able to mess with your computer however you want, as long as you know what you're doing. Personally, I'd have to try really hard to damage OS X with Duality. It's pretty idiot-proof. What's so bad about giving people control?
Sorry I didn't catch this earlier, guys. I've been away for a few days. You guys are right. I think I should copy this message to a txt file to post whenever someone asks about theming OSX.
I cannot emphasize that enough. Installing themes is a VERY dangerous game because they permanently delete and overwrite crucial pieces of the system.<hr></blockquote>
[quote]THERE IS NO SANCTIONED METHOD FOR DEVELOPING AND APPLYING THEMES IN MAC OS X.
I know this for a fact. I've made themes myself. I've followed the history and development of the various theming applications for Mac OS X since the Public Beta. In Classic Mac OS, there was actually a plug-in architecture setup via the Appearance Manager to apply themes to the system. This was developed for Copland, then Mac OS 8, but not included until Mac OS 8.5. There is *not* any similar system for Mac OS X. All of the theme "installer" programs like Duality and MetamorphX do exactly what I described above: they systematically DELETE key files in from the Carbon HIToolbox framework (and others too, especially with 10.2) and replace them with hacked files. If anything is wrong with the hacked files or if it something goes wrong during the replacement procedure, your Mac can rendered completely unusable with exception of the command-line in single-user mode.
*shrug* Am I making any headway here? What do I have do say to get people to understand that there is *no* built-in support for themes on Mac OS X and that installing themes can be very dangerous if you don't know exactly what is being changed and how to fix it?<hr></blockquote>
That said...
[quote]Originally posted by jasonfj:
<strong>so just to check, using Conundrumsoft's Duality shouldn't compromise the OS? <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>Duality does EXACTLY what I explained above. I deletes and replaces key files in your system in order to modify the appearance. If it screws up or a theme it installs screws up, you're screwed. Got it?
Yes, it "tests" the installation in a very minimal way, but not nearly as thoroughly as one would hope. If I recall correctly, it just tries to launch a sample app before installing. When there are problems with some parts of the HIToolbox, it will keep apps from launching. However, there are problems that aren't related specifically to this test that can sneak by unnoticed.
ok, I can see why Apple want a consistant look, and why it can be seen as a branding device. Unfortunately Aqua is a very consumer-looking interface. They should offer one 'pro' option alongside which does away with the childish embelishments. Simple as that.
<strong>ok, I can see why Apple want a consistant look, and why it can be seen as a branding device. Unfortunately Aqua is a very consumer-looking interface. They should offer one 'pro' option alongside which does away with the childish embelishments. Simple as that.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Amen to that, brother. I fully subscribe that view. It couldn't be so hard for Apple to build such a theme AND keep some sort of a general look. (and gain some speed).
That OS 9 Theme is great. I'm actually using it now. Change is good some times. I never really used OS 9.2.2 as an every day OS so this is some thing different to look @.
I've used Duality and changed my themes and had never had a problem. Until the day (or period of multiple days without sleep as it would be) I decided to try to make my own theme. After over ten hours of editing little itty bitty buttons, arrows, widgets, stripes, do-hickeys, etc. I decided to test it. Summary; Bad things happened, I got VERY scared, Finder flickered at me for 20 minutes straight, I fixed it, realized how lucky I was, stopped being (as) stupid with my System Folder.
<strong>I've used Duality and changed my themes and had never had a problem. Until the day (or period of multiple days without sleep as it would be) I decided to try to make my own theme. After over ten hours of editing little itty bitty buttons, arrows, widgets, stripes, do-hickeys, etc. I decided to test it. Summary; Bad things happened, I got VERY scared, Finder flickered at me for 20 minutes straight, I fixed it, realized how lucky I was, stopped being (as) stupid with my System Folder.</strong><hr></blockquote> Without editing or anything Duality <a href="http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=7&t=001872"; target="_blank">totally fvcked up me puter</a> and I had to restore. Don't know what happened really. Guess something went wrong in the installation process. As a minimal precaution one should make a full backup before starting. I found it out the hard way
<strong>That OS 9 Theme is great. I'm actually using it now. Change is good some times. I never really used OS 9.2.2 as an every day OS so this is some thing different to look @.</strong><hr></blockquote>;
Sometimes I wonder if people have any taste at all.
Sure, Aqua isn't for everyone, but how can you prefer that horrid Platinumesque theme over Aqua?
Meh, I find the aqua theme appealing, especially in "Graphite" mode, rather than "blue"... which is that "small" level of interface adjustment apple gives you... (in general controls if you've not stumbled on it).
but I even find the aqua folders nasty, they look weak and washed out - all that shading, drop shadows and airbrushing everywhere. give me a break. 9 looked solid.
<strong>Meh, I find the aqua theme appealing, especially in "Graphite" mode, rather than "blue"... which is that "small" level of interface adjustment apple gives you... (in general controls if you've not stumbled on it).</strong><hr></blockquote>
Agreed, I can't stand the Blue one...Graphite all the way.
Sometimes I wonder if people have any taste at all.
Sure, Aqua isn't for everyone, but how can you prefer that horrid Platinumesque theme over Aqua?
There are better themes out there...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes, I know there are better themes out and about I have a few other good ones but staying with the Mac look it doesn't bug me to much. I ended up switched back to my Aqua after using the old Mac look for 8 hours straight.
Comments
<strong>You people making it sound like you can't change anything. You can change your desktop pics, screen savers, and icons. That isn't to say that Apple shouldn't offer a few more options, but part of the reason OS 7-9 sucked was that people had too much control. They messed up the OS which made outsiders think "Macs Suck" even more. Diversity on a computer equals unstable, which is not something any user should want. If we get themes they should be Apple's themes and not system hacks that somebody dreams up.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm not an idiot. I have Duality and I've customized my themes more than once. I usually return to Aqua anyway, but it's not like it's a really unsafe program. Not only will it always give you the option of restoring Aqua, but it'll also catch problematic themes before they do any damage to your system.
Really, Apple keeps assuming that all their customers are really stupid. Sure, some of them are, but some of them aren't. You should be able to mess with your computer however you want, as long as you know what you're doing. Personally, I'd have to try really hard to damage OS X with Duality. It's pretty idiot-proof. What's so bad about giving people control?
I believe I should reiterate the post kelib linked to above. Here are two posts I wrote from <a href="http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=001552"; target="_blank">a recent thread</a>:
[quote]USE AT YOUR OWN RISK!!
I cannot emphasize that enough. Installing themes is a VERY dangerous game because they permanently delete and overwrite crucial pieces of the system.<hr></blockquote>
[quote]THERE IS NO SANCTIONED METHOD FOR DEVELOPING AND APPLYING THEMES IN MAC OS X.
I know this for a fact. I've made themes myself. I've followed the history and development of the various theming applications for Mac OS X since the Public Beta. In Classic Mac OS, there was actually a plug-in architecture setup via the Appearance Manager to apply themes to the system. This was developed for Copland, then Mac OS 8, but not included until Mac OS 8.5. There is *not* any similar system for Mac OS X. All of the theme "installer" programs like Duality and MetamorphX do exactly what I described above: they systematically DELETE key files in from the Carbon HIToolbox framework (and others too, especially with 10.2) and replace them with hacked files. If anything is wrong with the hacked files or if it something goes wrong during the replacement procedure, your Mac can rendered completely unusable with exception of the command-line in single-user mode.
*shrug* Am I making any headway here?
That said...
[quote]Originally posted by jasonfj:
<strong>so just to check, using Conundrumsoft's Duality shouldn't compromise the OS? <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>Duality does EXACTLY what I explained above. I deletes and replaces key files in your system in order to modify the appearance. If it screws up or a theme it installs screws up, you're screwed. Got it?
Yes, it "tests" the installation in a very minimal way, but not nearly as thoroughly as one would hope. If I recall correctly, it just tries to launch a sample app before installing. When there are problems with some parts of the HIToolbox, it will keep apps from launching. However, there are problems that aren't related specifically to this test that can sneak by unnoticed.
[ 10-03-2002: Message edited by: Brad ]</p>
Or at least get colors other than blue and gray. Having Aqua be radioactive green or ruby red would be fun once in a while, just for a change of pace.
I actually have Duality and a few themes, and I have used it a bit in the past with no problems, but there aren't really any themes that I like a lot.
<strong> ...fenagling (how do you spell that word?)...</strong><hr></blockquote>
<a href="http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?finagle"; target="_blank">finagle</a>
(tig)
"We do not inherit the land from our ancestors"
"We borrow it from our children"
[ 10-06-2002: Message edited by: The Grimace ]</p>
<strong>ok, I can see why Apple want a consistant look, and why it can be seen as a branding device. Unfortunately Aqua is a very consumer-looking interface. They should offer one 'pro' option alongside which does away with the childish embelishments. Simple as that.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Amen to that, brother. I fully subscribe that view. It couldn't be so hard for Apple to build such a theme AND keep some sort of a general look. (and gain some speed).
<strong>I've used Duality and changed my themes and had never had a problem. Until the day (or period of multiple days without sleep as it would be) I decided to try to make my own theme. After over ten hours of editing little itty bitty buttons, arrows, widgets, stripes, do-hickeys, etc. I decided to test it. Summary; Bad things happened, I got VERY scared, Finder flickered at me for 20 minutes straight, I fixed it, realized how lucky I was, stopped being (as) stupid with my System Folder.</strong><hr></blockquote> Without editing or anything Duality <a href="http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=7&t=001872"; target="_blank">totally fvcked up me puter</a> and I had to restore. Don't know what happened really. Guess something went wrong in the installation process. As a minimal precaution one should make a full backup before starting. I found it out the hard way
<strong>That OS 9 Theme is great. I'm actually using it now. Change is good some times. I never really used OS 9.2.2 as an every day OS so this is some thing different to look @.</strong><hr></blockquote>;
Sometimes I wonder if people have any taste at all.
Sure, Aqua isn't for everyone, but how can you prefer that horrid Platinumesque theme over Aqua?
There are better themes out there...
<strong>Meh, I find the aqua theme appealing, especially in "Graphite" mode, rather than "blue"... which is that "small" level of interface adjustment apple gives you... (in general controls if you've not stumbled on it).</strong><hr></blockquote>
Agreed, I can't stand the Blue one...Graphite all the way.
OmniWeb looks better with Graphite as well.
<strong>
Sometimes I wonder if people have any taste at all.
Sure, Aqua isn't for everyone, but how can you prefer that horrid Platinumesque theme over Aqua?
There are better themes out there...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes, I know there are better themes out and about I have a few other good ones but staying with the Mac look it doesn't bug me to much. I ended up switched back to my Aqua after using the old Mac look for 8 hours straight.