You are missing the whole point here, SD provides a way to install or reinstall your OS on a device that doesn't have an optical drive. Frankly it is likely the cheapest way to have an install image for compact or tablet devices.
I'm not missing anything. I flat out disagree with the point that going to SD for software distributions is cheaper than over the network software distribution. Contracting bandwidth with someone like Akamai is FAR less costly per GB than SD media plus physical box distribution costs. It's not even close.
SD really only has an advantage if you not in network connectivity. But when you are that far out of network connectivity, who wants to risk a OS install hosing up an already running fine device without access to real-time patches for all your potentially affected software? Only a fool, an idiot or someone totally clueless about their machine does that.
I'm not missing anything. I flat out disagree with the point that going to SD for software distributions is cheaper than over the network software distribution.
If that is your point then I think you are missing the point. The point of an OS restore disc or upgrade disc coming on SD of USB drive is a replacement to the large, slow, low capacity, power hungry optical drive that is increasingly limiting notebooks. I don’t think anyone would argue that a network download is cheaper, but a network ONLY option is not practical for several previously stated reasons. There will have to be a physical restore or upgrade solution for the foreseeable future.
Case in point…
I’m currently on a very slow hotel network that occasionally requires me to disconnect because my attempt to get the latest version of Snow Leopard will periodically think I’m doing “illegal’ work on their network. I eventually had to contact my brother to DL it on his machine, install RarMe to break it up into small segments and have him upload it to my iDisk so I can grab them. I’ve been in this hotel since last Friday and I’m now on package number 5 of 60 (100MB files). It will take me another 22 hours at the current speed. That is Tuesday evening before I can install it.
After that, since I have VM Ware installed I can’t partition my HDD so I’ll have to use my USB external HDD since repartitioning the HDD is now not possible, yet another issue when you don’t have a physical install option available. I’ll use UnrarX to reassemble the DMG, if everything is okay I’ll then use Disk Utility to create a partition on the external HDD to restore the DMG too. Then I’ll restart from that partition and install it on my machine. You don’t have to waste a DL-DVD to worry about it not writing properly but it’s still a major PITA to do a network system update like this.
Now imagine if I only had the simplistic netbook option available because a physical medium for a restore was not possible and I had no machine to use in these past 5 days. To reiterate, you can’t get rid of the optical drive without having another physical medium in place.
If that is your point then I think you are missing the point. The point of an OS restore disc or upgrade disc coming on SD of USB drive is a replacement to the large, slow, low capacity, power hungry optical drive that is increasingly limiting notebooks. I don’t think anyone would argue that a network download is cheaper, but a network ONLY option is not practical for several previously stated reasons. There will have to be a physical restore or upgrade solution for the foreseeable future.
Case in point…
I’m currently on a very slow hotel network that occasionally requires me to disconnect because my attempt to get the latest version of Snow Leopard will periodically think I’m doing “illegal’ work on their network. I eventually had to contact my brother to DL it on his machine, install RarMe to break it up into small segments and have him upload it to my iDisk so I can grab them. I’ve been in this hotel since last Friday and I’m now on package number 5 of 60 (100MB files). It will take me another 22 hours at the current speed. That is Tuesday evening before I can install it.
After that, since I have VM Ware installed I can’t partition my HDD so I’ll have to use my USB external HDD since repartitioning the HDD is now not possible, yet another issue when you don’t have a physical install option available. I’ll use UnrarX to reassemble the DMG, if everything is okay I’ll then use Disk Utility to create a partition on the external HDD to restore the DMG too. Then I’ll restart from that partition and install it on my machine. You don’t have to waste a DL-DVD to worry about it not writing properly but it’s still a major PITA to do a network system update like this.
Now imagine if I only had the simplistic netbook option available because a physical medium for a restore was not possible and I had no machine to use in these past 5 days. To reiterate, you can’t get rid of the optical drive without having another physical medium in place.
First: I HAVE SAID REPEATEDLY THAT EMERGENCY SYSTEM BOOT DISKS ARE A GREAT IDEA! Build your own SD recovery disk or DVD image of the installer disk for emergency purposes! So your major argument just blew back in your face. Apple doesn't have to make them for you, matter of fact you get a vastly better image by building your own with a simple install session, then adding whatever your heart desires.
If you actually took time to read, I have ONLY been saying the economic case for SD media distribution for software sales does not make sense. Nothing else. There are multiple viable non-SD media methods to distribute software via network connections. Go hog-wild making those maintenance disks, I have mine on FW right now, but will seriously consider a SD version for the MBP-13 on the way.
And it seems you can't be bothered to go to a local library and jack-in directly, or jack-in directly at work or a friends house, or sit at a high bandwidth wireless hotspot or... (you get the idea)
You choose to sit in that dingy hotel and spin a sad tale. I also don't buy your VMWare woes. VMWare and the virtual machines are just a directory of files. It means nothing to a repartition than any other file on your machine would mean.
I just can't see fit to give relevance to a "I can't help myself because..." set of arguments when the whys are self-inflicted. Sorry, rough world, go to the damn library, work, friends...
So put in that light: No I don't get it, but that's because to get it in your world requires me to abandon my intelligence, adaptability and prior planning abilities.
Apple will drop optical from machines (laptops) starting with the next updates IMO. Kiss em' goodbye.
By the time Apple decides to distribute major os releases on SD cards they'll be cheap enough that it won't matter that they cost more than optical. I Imagine that servicing failed optical drives still under warranty will cost Apple more than the SD cards this time next year. I don't have any data to back that up but its a gut feeling.
And the laptops will get thinner. We all know how Apple feel about thin machines.
First: I HAVE SAID REPEATEDLY THAT EMERGENCY SYSTEM BOOT DISKS ARE A GREAT IDEA! Build your own SD recovery disk or DVD image of the installer disk for emergency purposes! So your major argument just blew back in your face. Apple doesn't have to make them for you, matter of fact you get a vastly better image by building your own with a simple install session, then adding whatever your heart desires.
If you actually took time to read, I have ONLY been saying the economic case for SD media distribution for software sales does not make sense. Nothing else. There are multiple viable non-SD media methods to distribute software via network connections. Go hog-wild making those maintenance disks, I have mine on FW right now, but will seriously consider a SD version for the MBP-13 on the way.
Back to the point, it?s not a viable solution for Apple to tell people to go out and by an SD card an then DL the OS from their website so they can do a restore of their system. The consumer shouldn?t be required to build their own. If they were, they would be told to them now like some OEMs do with their ultra-cheap lines, by putting the restore on a separate partition, thereby wasting valuable HDD space and have them supply the DVD for the restore. None of that sounds very Apple-like to me. There will have to be a physical restore option included when optical drives go. That could just as easily be an external USB optical drive with the restore disc included with the machine but that would be more costly than an SD card or USB drive.
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And it seems you can't be bothered to go to a local library and jack-in directly, or jack-in directly at work or a friends house, or sit at a high bandwidth wireless hotspot or... (you get the idea)
I can?t be bothered? This isn?t about me or you, this about a viable upgrade path for technology as a whole. You can?t just say that people just pay for faster internet in their home or find a way to the library or expect that they work and that their work will let them use their personal machine on their network. That isn?t good planning.
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You choose to sit in that dingy hotel and spin a sad tale. I also don't buy your VMWare woes. VMWare and the virtual machines are just a directory of files. It means nothing to a repartition than any other file on your machine would mean.
Actually the hotel is quite nice which is the problem. Generally, the cheaper the hotel, the more likely they will not charge for internet since they don?t want to set up the system and they usually have much faster internet, perhaps because not to many people use it and they don?t have complex routers and servers protecting their system.
Quote:
I just can't see fit to give relevance to a "I can't help myself because..." set of arguments when the whys are self-inflicted. Sorry, rough world, go to the damn library, work, friends...
So put in that light: No I don't get it, but that's because to get it in your world requires me to abandon my intelligence, adaptability and prior planning abilities.
Again, it?s not about you or me, it?s about how a company will do business to appeal to their consumer-base. If you still think that the future of computing without optical drives in notebooks will include companies telling people to go to the library, to get a job that allows them free interest access or go to a friends house to do DL a 4GB restore disc that also requires them to buy a card to install it on then you are so far from grounded to continue this conversation. THERE WILL BE A PHYSICAL RESTORE DISK INCLUDED FOR THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE!
Apple will drop optical from machines (laptops) starting with the next updates IMO. Kiss em' goodbye.
By the time Apple decides to distribute major os releases on SD cards they'll be cheap enough that it won't matter that they cost more than optical. I Imagine that servicing failed optical drives still under warranty will cost Apple more than the SD cards this time next year. I don't have any data to back that up but its a gut feeling.
And the laptops will get thinner. We all know how Apple feel about thin machines.
Your optical drive repair issue is an interesting aspect I hadn?t considered. I know I was asked to burn a disc on my last MB, despite never using it didn?t work. It was still under warranty but I never used it so I didn?t care enough to not have my machine for a week while it go repaired. As I?ve stated, the cost of the optical drive is probably more than the SD card needed.
Thinner may still be governed by the HDD, which is the same height as the optical drive, 9.5mm. If they use less platters they can go thinner or if they go with SSD as a standard then a thinner drive could be made, but I have seen no evidence of this yet. Would be nice, though.
Thinner may still be governed by the HDD, which is the same height as the optical drive, 9.5mm. If they use less platters they can go thinner or if they go with SSD as a standard then a thinner drive could be made, but I have seen no evidence of this yet. Would be nice, though.
We don't need a MBP any thinner than it is now. For some time yet at least. In view of SL, what we need is the optical drive to go and leave space for a quad option, more powerful graphics and a re-engineered cooling system to go with. The part occupied by the optical drive is proportionally very large in the 13" model. By dropping the optical drive, it may be possible to have all the previous even in this model.
MBP may not need to be any thinner but they could be a lot lighter.
That jsut got me thinking. If they did remove the optical drive, and lets say that they added no more new tech ?id est, no additional GPU, no additional HDD, no extra extra large battery? they could potentially engineer a display bezel that is much thinner, perhaps with a milled inner-lidplater that is considerably more rigid that the current lid bezel but allowing the base, now without an optical drive, to have a much footprint. This reduction of the footprint (and the removable of the optical drive) would increase it?s portability on two fronts.
Back to the point, it’s not a viable solution for Apple to tell people to go out and by an SD card an then DL the OS from their website so they can do a restore of their system.
Your point is meaningless. Apple already has sold hardware without physical restore disk capability (unless you purchase it separately), several times, and people have welcomed them with open arms.
First -- MacBook Air. Oops, no SD card even in that one and no hue and cry from the masses that life as we know it would cease to exist. Just a little specwhore griping in the beginning, then successful product. Hmmmm. Maybe Apple knew something you don't?
Second -- The iPhone series. Huh what I hear you say? It's a mobile computing platform with a phone strapped inside it and it has no physical media connectivity of any sort!
I'm sorry but these very successful products completely and utterly invalidate the rest of your arguments. They have successfully, through not failing, proven you to be completely wrong.
You are railing against the beginning of an era that has already been here for two years, seeping into the collective subconscious. You missed it and it has already passed you by. Catch up!
Your point is meaningless. Apple already has sold hardware without physical restore disk capability (unless you purchase it separately), several times, and people have welcomed them with open arms.
First -- MacBook Air. Oops, no SD card even in that one and no hue and cry from the masses that life as we know it would cease to exist. Just a little specwhore griping in the beginning, then successful product. Hmmmm. Maybe Apple knew something you don't?
Second -- The iPhone series. Huh what I hear you say? It's a mobile computing platform with a phone strapped inside it and it has no physical media connectivity of any sort!
I'm sorry but these very successful products completely and utterly invalidate the rest of your arguments. They have successfully, through not failing, proven you to be completely wrong.
You are railing against the beginning of an era that has already been here for two years, seeping into the collective subconscious. You missed it and it has already passed you by. Catch up!
Honestly, you should try responding to the post you quote. None of that jibber jabber makes any reasonable sense.
Actually Apple's website says that the MBA does come with restore and install DVDs.
I don't have one or know of anyone with one to confirm but just adding a data point.
Ah, that is what he meant. I thought it was well known since Apple introduced Remote Disc to allow for LAN installations. Perhaps he thinks that LAN installs are the same as WAN installs. Regardless, he misses the point of a non-network installation using SD or USB.
Not at all. The point you have been making is no external hardware allowed. You cannot suddenly say that a restore disk run via a friends PC is a valid solution if you earlier complained that you were stuck with meager hotel WiFi and couldn't be bothered to go to that friends house. Then you called foul about having to buy the media at all, separate from Apple providing it to you, well to use those restore disks with the MBA, you need to purchase a external drive, or a PC or go to that friend's house you snubbed earlier. Physical media without the physical device to read it is useless, and you have strenuously maintained that having to spend extra is not an option, so you cannot use the restore media with the MBA in your defense.
That's moving the goalposts and qualifies as a near automatic capitulation on the topic at hand. You have no point that hasn't been repeatedly refuted, but continue to bring up ever more fantastical distractions. The LAN/WAN misdirection is just that. What is the possibility of not having internet connectivity if you connect to someone else's LAN, extremely low. Not to mention to get to that LAN [you had to leave that dingy poor-connection hotel]
Not at all. The point you have been making is no external hardware allowed. You cannot suddenly say that a restore disk run via a friends PC is a valid solution if you earlier complained that you were stuck with meager hotel WiFi and couldn't be bothered to go to that friends house.
That machine is designed to complement other machines, which would have an optical drive. The point the previous poster made was that it did include a restore disc, where you stated it didn?t. I don?t care for that MBA?s solution. It?s cumbersome, slow and has too many caveats and potential for errors, though your WAN solution for all Macs has a quite a bit more. I am shocked that Apple did not offer a USB solution either by flash drive or included DVD drive for a local restore option. For other Mac ntoebooks, they are much more likely to be ones ONLY machine and therefore are more likely to require a HW solution. You can say the next step is WAN restores and I?ll say that it?s a non-optical drive physical medium; they are both speculative opinions. I?m not sure why that is an issue.
Its possible to distribute major point upgrades wirelessly and sell machines without physical media backup. But I don't think that's practical... yet.
I suspect that Apple will use SD cards for a while before distributing major os upgrades digitally. Maybe users will get the option to buy a major os upgrade digitally at a discount since no physical media is involved. I think Apple are telegraphing their moves here (dropping optical) but I think it'll be a gradual move away from physical means of SW distribution and not an abrupt change, IMO.
When Apple will allow/design TM backups to be bootable for troubleshooting then that would facilitate digital distribution IMO.
Seems like your complaint is more specifically about DVD based distribution. SD cards aren't the only alternative though.
In my opinion, a USB thumb drive would be a better option than an SD card at this point.
Why? I can see zero advantage to that.
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Originally Posted by dfiler
That's a reasonable point but I'll have to respectfully disagree.
I've never seen a thumb drive break and only rarely seen a USB plug fail. Not that it doesn't happen, but rather that it is exceedingly rare. Certainly rarer than a scratched DVD. USB ports fail somewhat more frequently, but rarely plugs.
OK, then:
I've never seen a SD card break and only rarely seen a SD card fail. Not that it doesn't happen, but rather that it is exceedingly rare. Certainly rarer than a scratched DVD. USB ports fail somewhat more frequently, but rarely SD cards.
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Since the advent of USB, i've held positions all the way from desktop support (in college) to an IT department manager (now). In all that time, I've never run across a failed thumb drive and only an occasional usb plug failure.
Uh...I have and I don't even work in IT.
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Nor would SD be more compatible than usb thumb drives.
Yes, I think it would. Just the other day I used a thumb drive from a major manufacturer that wasn't recognized on my Mac. I had to use a PC.
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To make this an issue seems like a real stretch. People use Sd cards on a regular basis precisely because of their near flawless compatibility.
Fixed that for you.
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Finally, I'm not sure what you're referring to by "distributors will have to source pen drives from different manufacturers and could end up with a large variation in quality/styles. SD cards are just more standardized." There would be absolutely no problem with any software house sourcing usb thumb drives.
You just said that SD cards are more standardized. And you really can't see the problem here? They'd have to ensure complete compatibility. SD is more compatible right now. Hello?
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With all that said, i'm not even sure that either is a good idea. I'm inclined to believe that optical media will be the last ubiquitous physical distribution format for PC software. We might see dabbling with usb drives or SD cards, but it seems more likely that these will be rare as compared to licensed downloads.
I can't disagree with that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox
"Honey, where's our copy of Snow Leopard? YOU USED IT FOR WHAT??!!"
HAHAHAHAHAHA. I guess I shouldn't have gotten the "pink ribbed USB stick" version. No worries though, I just reordered the wax cylinder version of Snow Leopoard. Now, as long as my wife doesn't burn any candles, we'll be good.
If you actually took time to read, I have ONLY been saying the economic case for SD media distribution for software sales does not make sense. Nothing else. There are multiple viable non-SD media methods to distribute software via network connections. Go hog-wild making those maintenance disks, I have mine on FW right now, but will seriously consider a SD version for the MBP-13 on the way.
And it seems you can't be bothered to go to a local library and jack-in directly, or jack-in directly at work or a friends house, or sit at a high bandwidth wireless hotspot or... (you get the idea)
Apple can't release laptops designed only for what is most likely coming several years down the road. Right now, there are major application installs, including (crucially) operating system installs, that are impracticable OTA. You can try installing Final Cut Pro over the 'net if you like, but the poster upthread made a pretty good case for SD right now and most likely over the average useful life of the machine.
I've downloaded an Apple OS before (from Apple, before anyone asks). It reminded me of those good old days when I would dial up a BBS in the evening, start a download over 300 BAUD, go to bed, and wake up with about a 30% chance that I had the file I wanted. For the next few design cycles, SD will wipe the floor with network installs in the general case. The only advantage DVDs have at this point is their absurdly low cost in bulk, but if you're shipping a $129 operating system or a $999 professional suite it's not a significant cost difference in real terms. Apple spends extra money to make their packaging impressive. I can't imagine them begrudging a bit extra to greatly improve the installation experience as well.
That machine is designed to complement other machines, which would have an optical drive. The point the previous poster made was that it did include a restore disc, where you stated it didn’t.
No, you continue to try to change whay I write which was exactly:
Quote:
Your point is meaningless. Apple already has sold hardware without physical restore disk capability (unless you purchase it separately), several times, and people have welcomed them with open arms.
No MBA optical drive in the box drive equals no physical restore capability, quite plainly and without dispute. I said nothing about the media itself. Stop long enough to actually comprehend what is written before you, quit twisting it through some self-serving filter.
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Originally Posted by solipsism
I don’t care for that MBA’s solution. It’s cumbersome, slow and has too many caveats and potential for errors, though your WAN solution for all Macs has a quite a bit more. I am shocked that Apple did not offer a USB solution either by flash drive or included DVD drive for a local restore option.
Fair enough (exceping the WAN opinion), but Apple has sold the masses on it and it is a model for selling a device without a physical restore solution out of the box. That is all I have been saying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
For other Mac ntoebooks, they are much more likely to be ones ONLY machine and therefore are more likely to require a HW solution. You can say the next step is WAN restores and I’ll say that it’s a non-optical drive physical medium; they are both speculative opinions. I’m not sure why that is an issue.
Exactly, so why are you trying so hard to discredit an option that has been in the marketplace for almost two years already? This isn't new, this is old news than most people just woke up to since last Monday.
Comments
You are missing the whole point here, SD provides a way to install or reinstall your OS on a device that doesn't have an optical drive. Frankly it is likely the cheapest way to have an install image for compact or tablet devices.
I'm not missing anything. I flat out disagree with the point that going to SD for software distributions is cheaper than over the network software distribution. Contracting bandwidth with someone like Akamai is FAR less costly per GB than SD media plus physical box distribution costs. It's not even close.
SD really only has an advantage if you not in network connectivity. But when you are that far out of network connectivity, who wants to risk a OS install hosing up an already running fine device without access to real-time patches for all your potentially affected software? Only a fool, an idiot or someone totally clueless about their machine does that.
I'm not missing anything. I flat out disagree with the point that going to SD for software distributions is cheaper than over the network software distribution.
If that is your point then I think you are missing the point. The point of an OS restore disc or upgrade disc coming on SD of USB drive is a replacement to the large, slow, low capacity, power hungry optical drive that is increasingly limiting notebooks. I don’t think anyone would argue that a network download is cheaper, but a network ONLY option is not practical for several previously stated reasons. There will have to be a physical restore or upgrade solution for the foreseeable future.
Case in point…
I’m currently on a very slow hotel network that occasionally requires me to disconnect because my attempt to get the latest version of Snow Leopard will periodically think I’m doing “illegal’ work on their network. I eventually had to contact my brother to DL it on his machine, install RarMe to break it up into small segments and have him upload it to my iDisk so I can grab them. I’ve been in this hotel since last Friday and I’m now on package number 5 of 60 (100MB files). It will take me another 22 hours at the current speed. That is Tuesday evening before I can install it.
After that, since I have VM Ware installed I can’t partition my HDD so I’ll have to use my USB external HDD since repartitioning the HDD is now not possible, yet another issue when you don’t have a physical install option available. I’ll use UnrarX to reassemble the DMG, if everything is okay I’ll then use Disk Utility to create a partition on the external HDD to restore the DMG too. Then I’ll restart from that partition and install it on my machine. You don’t have to waste a DL-DVD to worry about it not writing properly but it’s still a major PITA to do a network system update like this.
Now imagine if I only had the simplistic netbook option available because a physical medium for a restore was not possible and I had no machine to use in these past 5 days. To reiterate, you can’t get rid of the optical drive without having another physical medium in place.
If that is your point then I think you are missing the point. The point of an OS restore disc or upgrade disc coming on SD of USB drive is a replacement to the large, slow, low capacity, power hungry optical drive that is increasingly limiting notebooks. I don’t think anyone would argue that a network download is cheaper, but a network ONLY option is not practical for several previously stated reasons. There will have to be a physical restore or upgrade solution for the foreseeable future.
Case in point…
I’m currently on a very slow hotel network that occasionally requires me to disconnect because my attempt to get the latest version of Snow Leopard will periodically think I’m doing “illegal’ work on their network. I eventually had to contact my brother to DL it on his machine, install RarMe to break it up into small segments and have him upload it to my iDisk so I can grab them. I’ve been in this hotel since last Friday and I’m now on package number 5 of 60 (100MB files). It will take me another 22 hours at the current speed. That is Tuesday evening before I can install it.
After that, since I have VM Ware installed I can’t partition my HDD so I’ll have to use my USB external HDD since repartitioning the HDD is now not possible, yet another issue when you don’t have a physical install option available. I’ll use UnrarX to reassemble the DMG, if everything is okay I’ll then use Disk Utility to create a partition on the external HDD to restore the DMG too. Then I’ll restart from that partition and install it on my machine. You don’t have to waste a DL-DVD to worry about it not writing properly but it’s still a major PITA to do a network system update like this.
Now imagine if I only had the simplistic netbook option available because a physical medium for a restore was not possible and I had no machine to use in these past 5 days. To reiterate, you can’t get rid of the optical drive without having another physical medium in place.
First: I HAVE SAID REPEATEDLY THAT EMERGENCY SYSTEM BOOT DISKS ARE A GREAT IDEA! Build your own SD recovery disk or DVD image of the installer disk for emergency purposes! So your major argument just blew back in your face. Apple doesn't have to make them for you, matter of fact you get a vastly better image by building your own with a simple install session, then adding whatever your heart desires.
If you actually took time to read, I have ONLY been saying the economic case for SD media distribution for software sales does not make sense. Nothing else. There are multiple viable non-SD media methods to distribute software via network connections. Go hog-wild making those maintenance disks, I have mine on FW right now, but will seriously consider a SD version for the MBP-13 on the way.
And it seems you can't be bothered to go to a local library and jack-in directly, or jack-in directly at work or a friends house, or sit at a high bandwidth wireless hotspot or... (you get the idea)
You choose to sit in that dingy hotel and spin a sad tale. I also don't buy your VMWare woes. VMWare and the virtual machines are just a directory of files. It means nothing to a repartition than any other file on your machine would mean.
I just can't see fit to give relevance to a "I can't help myself because..." set of arguments when the whys are self-inflicted. Sorry, rough world, go to the damn library, work, friends...
So put in that light: No I don't get it, but that's because to get it in your world requires me to abandon my intelligence, adaptability and prior planning abilities.
Apple will drop optical from machines (laptops) starting with the next updates IMO. Kiss em' goodbye.
By the time Apple decides to distribute major os releases on SD cards they'll be cheap enough that it won't matter that they cost more than optical. I Imagine that servicing failed optical drives still under warranty will cost Apple more than the SD cards this time next year. I don't have any data to back that up but its a gut feeling.
And the laptops will get thinner. We all know how Apple feel about thin machines.
First: I HAVE SAID REPEATEDLY THAT EMERGENCY SYSTEM BOOT DISKS ARE A GREAT IDEA! Build your own SD recovery disk or DVD image of the installer disk for emergency purposes! So your major argument just blew back in your face. Apple doesn't have to make them for you, matter of fact you get a vastly better image by building your own with a simple install session, then adding whatever your heart desires.
If you actually took time to read, I have ONLY been saying the economic case for SD media distribution for software sales does not make sense. Nothing else. There are multiple viable non-SD media methods to distribute software via network connections. Go hog-wild making those maintenance disks, I have mine on FW right now, but will seriously consider a SD version for the MBP-13 on the way.
Back to the point, it?s not a viable solution for Apple to tell people to go out and by an SD card an then DL the OS from their website so they can do a restore of their system. The consumer shouldn?t be required to build their own. If they were, they would be told to them now like some OEMs do with their ultra-cheap lines, by putting the restore on a separate partition, thereby wasting valuable HDD space and have them supply the DVD for the restore. None of that sounds very Apple-like to me. There will have to be a physical restore option included when optical drives go. That could just as easily be an external USB optical drive with the restore disc included with the machine but that would be more costly than an SD card or USB drive.
And it seems you can't be bothered to go to a local library and jack-in directly, or jack-in directly at work or a friends house, or sit at a high bandwidth wireless hotspot or... (you get the idea)
I can?t be bothered? This isn?t about me or you, this about a viable upgrade path for technology as a whole. You can?t just say that people just pay for faster internet in their home or find a way to the library or expect that they work and that their work will let them use their personal machine on their network. That isn?t good planning.
You choose to sit in that dingy hotel and spin a sad tale. I also don't buy your VMWare woes. VMWare and the virtual machines are just a directory of files. It means nothing to a repartition than any other file on your machine would mean.
Actually the hotel is quite nice which is the problem. Generally, the cheaper the hotel, the more likely they will not charge for internet since they don?t want to set up the system and they usually have much faster internet, perhaps because not to many people use it and they don?t have complex routers and servers protecting their system.
I just can't see fit to give relevance to a "I can't help myself because..." set of arguments when the whys are self-inflicted. Sorry, rough world, go to the damn library, work, friends...
So put in that light: No I don't get it, but that's because to get it in your world requires me to abandon my intelligence, adaptability and prior planning abilities.
Again, it?s not about you or me, it?s about how a company will do business to appeal to their consumer-base. If you still think that the future of computing without optical drives in notebooks will include companies telling people to go to the library, to get a job that allows them free interest access or go to a friends house to do DL a 4GB restore disc that also requires them to buy a card to install it on then you are so far from grounded to continue this conversation. THERE WILL BE A PHYSICAL RESTORE DISK INCLUDED FOR THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE!
This is the beginning of the end for optical.
Apple will drop optical from machines (laptops) starting with the next updates IMO. Kiss em' goodbye.
By the time Apple decides to distribute major os releases on SD cards they'll be cheap enough that it won't matter that they cost more than optical. I Imagine that servicing failed optical drives still under warranty will cost Apple more than the SD cards this time next year. I don't have any data to back that up but its a gut feeling.
And the laptops will get thinner. We all know how Apple feel about thin machines.
Your optical drive repair issue is an interesting aspect I hadn?t considered. I know I was asked to burn a disc on my last MB, despite never using it didn?t work. It was still under warranty but I never used it so I didn?t care enough to not have my machine for a week while it go repaired. As I?ve stated, the cost of the optical drive is probably more than the SD card needed.
Thinner may still be governed by the HDD, which is the same height as the optical drive, 9.5mm. If they use less platters they can go thinner or if they go with SSD as a standard then a thinner drive could be made, but I have seen no evidence of this yet. Would be nice, though.
Thinner may still be governed by the HDD, which is the same height as the optical drive, 9.5mm. If they use less platters they can go thinner or if they go with SSD as a standard then a thinner drive could be made, but I have seen no evidence of this yet. Would be nice, though.
We don't need a MBP any thinner than it is now. For some time yet at least. In view of SL, what we need is the optical drive to go and leave space for a quad option, more powerful graphics and a re-engineered cooling system to go with. The part occupied by the optical drive is proportionally very large in the 13" model. By dropping the optical drive, it may be possible to have all the previous even in this model.
It's 2009 already and I have had enough of the gramophone spinning disk experience. The shift to SD is good.
C.
(Although it might be better if the SD cards plugged in flush and not sticking out half a centimeter.)
MBP may not need to be any thinner but they could be a lot lighter.
That jsut got me thinking. If they did remove the optical drive, and lets say that they added no more new tech ?id est, no additional GPU, no additional HDD, no extra extra large battery? they could potentially engineer a display bezel that is much thinner, perhaps with a milled inner-lidplater that is considerably more rigid that the current lid bezel but allowing the base, now without an optical drive, to have a much footprint. This reduction of the footprint (and the removable of the optical drive) would increase it?s portability on two fronts.
Back to the point, it’s not a viable solution for Apple to tell people to go out and by an SD card an then DL the OS from their website so they can do a restore of their system.
Your point is meaningless. Apple already has sold hardware without physical restore disk capability (unless you purchase it separately), several times, and people have welcomed them with open arms.
First -- MacBook Air. Oops, no SD card even in that one and no hue and cry from the masses that life as we know it would cease to exist. Just a little specwhore griping in the beginning, then successful product. Hmmmm. Maybe Apple knew something you don't?
Second -- The iPhone series. Huh what I hear you say? It's a mobile computing platform with a phone strapped inside it and it has no physical media connectivity of any sort!
I'm sorry but these very successful products completely and utterly invalidate the rest of your arguments. They have successfully, through not failing, proven you to be completely wrong.
You are railing against the beginning of an era that has already been here for two years, seeping into the collective subconscious. You missed it and it has already passed you by. Catch up!
Your point is meaningless. Apple already has sold hardware without physical restore disk capability (unless you purchase it separately), several times, and people have welcomed them with open arms.
First -- MacBook Air. Oops, no SD card even in that one and no hue and cry from the masses that life as we know it would cease to exist. Just a little specwhore griping in the beginning, then successful product. Hmmmm. Maybe Apple knew something you don't?
Second -- The iPhone series. Huh what I hear you say? It's a mobile computing platform with a phone strapped inside it and it has no physical media connectivity of any sort!
I'm sorry but these very successful products completely and utterly invalidate the rest of your arguments. They have successfully, through not failing, proven you to be completely wrong.
You are railing against the beginning of an era that has already been here for two years, seeping into the collective subconscious. You missed it and it has already passed you by. Catch up!
Honestly, you should try responding to the post you quote. None of that jibber jabber makes any reasonable sense.
. Apple already has sold hardware without physical restore disk capability (unless you purchase it separately), ........
First -- MacBook Air....
Actually Apple's website says that the MBA does come with restore and install DVDs.
I don't have one or know of anyone with one to confirm but just adding a data point.
Actually Apple's website says that the MBA does come with restore and install DVDs.
I don't have one or know of anyone with one to confirm but just adding a data point.
Ah, that is what he meant. I thought it was well known since Apple introduced Remote Disc to allow for LAN installations. Perhaps he thinks that LAN installs are the same as WAN installs. Regardless, he misses the point of a non-network installation using SD or USB.
That's moving the goalposts and qualifies as a near automatic capitulation on the topic at hand. You have no point that hasn't been repeatedly refuted, but continue to bring up ever more fantastical distractions. The LAN/WAN misdirection is just that. What is the possibility of not having internet connectivity if you connect to someone else's LAN, extremely low. Not to mention to get to that LAN [you had to leave that dingy poor-connection hotel]
Not at all. The point you have been making is no external hardware allowed. You cannot suddenly say that a restore disk run via a friends PC is a valid solution if you earlier complained that you were stuck with meager hotel WiFi and couldn't be bothered to go to that friends house.
That machine is designed to complement other machines, which would have an optical drive. The point the previous poster made was that it did include a restore disc, where you stated it didn?t. I don?t care for that MBA?s solution. It?s cumbersome, slow and has too many caveats and potential for errors, though your WAN solution for all Macs has a quite a bit more. I am shocked that Apple did not offer a USB solution either by flash drive or included DVD drive for a local restore option. For other Mac ntoebooks, they are much more likely to be ones ONLY machine and therefore are more likely to require a HW solution. You can say the next step is WAN restores and I?ll say that it?s a non-optical drive physical medium; they are both speculative opinions. I?m not sure why that is an issue.
Its possible to distribute major point upgrades wirelessly and sell machines without physical media backup. But I don't think that's practical... yet.
I suspect that Apple will use SD cards for a while before distributing major os upgrades digitally. Maybe users will get the option to buy a major os upgrade digitally at a discount since no physical media is involved. I think Apple are telegraphing their moves here (dropping optical) but I think it'll be a gradual move away from physical means of SW distribution and not an abrupt change, IMO.
When Apple will allow/design TM backups to be bootable for troubleshooting then that would facilitate digital distribution IMO.
Seems like your complaint is more specifically about DVD based distribution. SD cards aren't the only alternative though.
In my opinion, a USB thumb drive would be a better option than an SD card at this point.
Why? I can see zero advantage to that.
That's a reasonable point but I'll have to respectfully disagree.
I've never seen a thumb drive break and only rarely seen a USB plug fail. Not that it doesn't happen, but rather that it is exceedingly rare. Certainly rarer than a scratched DVD. USB ports fail somewhat more frequently, but rarely plugs.
OK, then:
I've never seen a SD card break and only rarely seen a SD card fail. Not that it doesn't happen, but rather that it is exceedingly rare. Certainly rarer than a scratched DVD. USB ports fail somewhat more frequently, but rarely SD cards.
Since the advent of USB, i've held positions all the way from desktop support (in college) to an IT department manager (now). In all that time, I've never run across a failed thumb drive and only an occasional usb plug failure.
Uh...I have and I don't even work in IT.
Nor would SD be more compatible than usb thumb drives.
Yes, I think it would. Just the other day I used a thumb drive from a major manufacturer that wasn't recognized on my Mac. I had to use a PC.
To make this an issue seems like a real stretch. People use Sd cards on a regular basis precisely because of their near flawless compatibility.
Fixed that for you.
Finally, I'm not sure what you're referring to by "distributors will have to source pen drives from different manufacturers and could end up with a large variation in quality/styles. SD cards are just more standardized." There would be absolutely no problem with any software house sourcing usb thumb drives.
You just said that SD cards are more standardized. And you really can't see the problem here? They'd have to ensure complete compatibility. SD is more compatible right now. Hello?
With all that said, i'm not even sure that either is a good idea. I'm inclined to believe that optical media will be the last ubiquitous physical distribution format for PC software. We might see dabbling with usb drives or SD cards, but it seems more likely that these will be rare as compared to licensed downloads.
I can't disagree with that.
"Honey, where's our copy of Snow Leopard? YOU USED IT FOR WHAT??!!"
HAHAHAHAHAHA. I guess I shouldn't have gotten the "pink ribbed USB stick" version. No worries though, I just reordered the wax cylinder version of Snow Leopoard. Now, as long as my wife doesn't burn any candles, we'll be good.
If you actually took time to read, I have ONLY been saying the economic case for SD media distribution for software sales does not make sense. Nothing else. There are multiple viable non-SD media methods to distribute software via network connections. Go hog-wild making those maintenance disks, I have mine on FW right now, but will seriously consider a SD version for the MBP-13 on the way.
And it seems you can't be bothered to go to a local library and jack-in directly, or jack-in directly at work or a friends house, or sit at a high bandwidth wireless hotspot or... (you get the idea)
Apple can't release laptops designed only for what is most likely coming several years down the road. Right now, there are major application installs, including (crucially) operating system installs, that are impracticable OTA. You can try installing Final Cut Pro over the 'net if you like, but the poster upthread made a pretty good case for SD right now and most likely over the average useful life of the machine.
I've downloaded an Apple OS before (from Apple, before anyone asks). It reminded me of those good old days when I would dial up a BBS in the evening, start a download over 300 BAUD, go to bed, and wake up with about a 30% chance that I had the file I wanted. For the next few design cycles, SD will wipe the floor with network installs in the general case. The only advantage DVDs have at this point is their absurdly low cost in bulk, but if you're shipping a $129 operating system or a $999 professional suite it's not a significant cost difference in real terms. Apple spends extra money to make their packaging impressive. I can't imagine them begrudging a bit extra to greatly improve the installation experience as well.
That machine is designed to complement other machines, which would have an optical drive. The point the previous poster made was that it did include a restore disc, where you stated it didn’t.
No, you continue to try to change whay I write which was exactly:
Your point is meaningless. Apple already has sold hardware without physical restore disk capability (unless you purchase it separately), several times, and people have welcomed them with open arms.
No MBA optical drive in the box drive equals no physical restore capability, quite plainly and without dispute. I said nothing about the media itself. Stop long enough to actually comprehend what is written before you, quit twisting it through some self-serving filter.
I don’t care for that MBA’s solution. It’s cumbersome, slow and has too many caveats and potential for errors, though your WAN solution for all Macs has a quite a bit more. I am shocked that Apple did not offer a USB solution either by flash drive or included DVD drive for a local restore option.
Fair enough (exceping the WAN opinion), but Apple has sold the masses on it and it is a model for selling a device without a physical restore solution out of the box. That is all I have been saying.
For other Mac ntoebooks, they are much more likely to be ones ONLY machine and therefore are more likely to require a HW solution. You can say the next step is WAN restores and I’ll say that it’s a non-optical drive physical medium; they are both speculative opinions. I’m not sure why that is an issue.
Exactly, so why are you trying so hard to discredit an option that has been in the marketplace for almost two years already? This isn't new, this is old news than most people just woke up to since last Monday.