Apple details Mac OS X Snow Leopard Up-to-Date Program

2

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 53
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


    This is overkill for the VAST majority of users. People running Leopard now will likely have no problem. For added peace of mind, all one has to do is backup important documents/photos/apps/music (etc) before upgrading.



    Agreed. Time Machine being ideal for this.



    Quote:

    Don't get me wrong, a clean install is always better. But there is no need to clone and reverse clone and all of that. Just backup, install and then run a permissions repair. You'll be fine.



    Now, I think this is overkill too. A straight upgrade is fine for the vast majority of users, and far less likely to cause problems than an Erase and Install or even an Archive and Install (the actual options, "clean install" not being one of them).
  • Reply 22 of 53
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macxpress View Post


    I don't recall ever having to do this either. And it says Upgrade right on the disc.



    I've always been able to do an erase and install with upgrade discs. Its basically a full blown version.



    If Apple is going to require Leopard to be installed then this is going to be a huge mess come September. I always do an erase and install or an archive and install when going to a completely new version. Many other people do too because a lot of the time the upgrade just screws everything up.



    it does sound like boondoggle waiting to happen if they go that route. Perhaps it'll be like that single user install and family 5 install packs that require the honour system to work. That seems more like Apple. Not because they are altrustic, but because you've already purchased a Mac and many people upgrade to the latest OS version right away, unlike with Windows.
  • Reply 23 of 53
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    it does sound like boondoggle waiting to happen if they go that route. Perhaps it'll be like that single user install and family 5 install packs that require the honour system to work. That seems more like Apple. Not because they are altrustic, but because you've already purchased a Mac and many people upgrade to the latest OS version right away, unlike with Windows.



    There's a precedent for this -- I believe it was the 10.2 upgrade which checked for a previously installed version of OSX. It proved quite easy to find the file on the upgrade CD which checked for the previous version, remove it, and burn a new install disc. Not saying Apple will try this again, but it's not like they never have before.
  • Reply 24 of 53
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,217member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post


    Always have at least one other hard drive to "option" boot from that contains your snapshot of your original boot drive (including cloning software to reverse clone) before making any drastic changes.



    why go all that fuss. you have your install disk that came with the computer and hopefully by now everyone is making external backups.



    system crashes and you boot from the DVD, in the utility menu there's even a handy "restore from time machine backup" choice.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    Are you sure? Why does Apple's tech specs page (www.apple.com/macosx/specs.html) make a distinction between upgrading from Leopard and upgrading from Tiger



    because unlike before, you have to have a machine that is running leopard already for the upgrade to work. which means that the reason for the cheap price is that this is just an upgrade. not a full system disk. My guess is that all the apps will already have been updated or can by via software update so the disk is just going to handle the system upgrade part. like a massive version of the updates we normally get to go 10.x.x to 10.x.y.



    but if you are on tiger, you need the leopard parts or there's nothing to upgrade. so you are basically buying leopard with the snow leopard tossed in for free (plus the ilife/iwork were are pretty nice suites so what's the harm)
  • Reply 25 of 53
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,405member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    Agreed. Time Machine being ideal for this.



    Time Machine is not terribly Tiger-friendly, if have to a clean install.
  • Reply 26 of 53
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,405member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


    but if you are on tiger, you need the leopard parts or there's nothing to upgrade. so you are basically buying leopard with the snow leopard tossed in for free (plus the ilife/iwork were are pretty nice suites so what's the harm)



    Agreed. I like the suggestion from Galley above, which is probably the route I'll go: $129 on Amazon. (Plus the Family Pack for the three other machines.)
  • Reply 27 of 53
    mactrippermactripper Posts: 1,328member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by meelash View Post


    As far as cloned disks are concerned, you have heard of Time Machine right? Available free on every new mac? Why would the general public want to go digging around for freeware cloning software when they've got a more convenient solution right there? I'm not saying it doesn't have uses, but for the general person?



    Time Machine drive is not 'hold option' boot able, this limits its effectiveness as a boot able backup solution.



    In my opinion, TimeMachine is a training wheel solution for newbies mostly. Anyone who can download software and hook up a external hard should be cloning their boot drive instead as it's more reliable, copies everything and can be booted from and used as any other boot drive until they can figure out what the problem is with their main boot drive.



    If all else fails and the original boot drive still works mechanically, they could simply reverse clone. No need for some "tech" to be snooping and copying everything on a customers drive neither, a widespread problem in the IT industry.



    A example: if over time with updates and all, essential boot drivers for your hardware or firmware updates are no longer valid on the either the Leopard install disk or the Snow Leopard upgrade disks, with only a non-bootable TimeMachine drive your totally fscked with a alternate boot method right?



    Yea, you know I'm right. Because Apple has crippled OS X install disks with firmware/driver updates in the past.



    Stick the OS X install disk in during a time of trouble to hopefully to "C boot" and run Disk Utility or just to reinstall the OS and nothing happens, the computer doesn't boot and spits out the OS X install disk.



    My advice, just clone it and be done with it.



    I'll evaluate and possibly change my position when Time Machine has a boot able option and reverse cloning capability. Until then, in my opinion, it's good for newbies mostly, better than nothing, but not better than cloning.
  • Reply 28 of 53
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post


    Time Machine drive is not 'hold option' boot able, this limits its effectiveness as a boot able backup solution.



    It certainly does, but with Snow Leopard there is a way to make your external drive a bootable Snow Leopard drive. This does require the creation of a separate partition on the external drive, which you could have done before SL, but SL has made it quite simple to install from any partition to any other partition. I use this method with my TimeMachine drive specifically so I can resolve any issues that may arise, without the need for another Mac for Target Disk Mode. I suggest this solution for all who can spare 4GB on their external drive.
  • Reply 29 of 53
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,217member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    For Panther users it?s a completely new OS. I assumed that you?d still be able to wipe your HDD and only use the SL disc without ever touching Leopard again.



    I would not make that assumption. it is possible you will be disappointed. unless you go the 'tiger' route and buy a full disk. which if you haven't gotten the other software might actually be worth it. I think that pack is going to be $169 for a single user and ilife and iwork singles are like $80 a piece. so . . .



    by the by, I noticed you said Panther. As I recall, all intel computers were at least tiger when sold. if someone is using Panther, that's likely PPC and thus all this is moot cause SL is intel only.
  • Reply 30 of 53
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


    I would not make that assumption. it is possible you will be disappointed. unless you go the 'tiger' route and buy a full disk. which if you haven't gotten the other software might actually be worth it. I think that pack is going to be $169 for a single user and ilife and iwork singles are like $80 a piece. so . . .



    by the by, I noticed you said Panther. As I recall, all intel computers were at least tiger when sold. if someone is using Panther, that's likely PPC and thus all this is moot cause SL is intel only.



    I did mean Tiger. I still find it hard that Apple will make the cheap SL require an install of Leopard to work. Seems like a lot of fuss for no gain.
  • Reply 31 of 53
    I wish they'd hurry up and tell us what the UK pricing is for a Snow Leopard upgrade. Some of us don't work in dollars (though if the exchange rate continues to rise like this, I may end up importing it cheaper than buying here).
  • Reply 32 of 53
    8corewhore8corewhore Posts: 833member
    Pure speculation here, but::: I wonder if Apple will do things a little different from now on - not just because it's an "under the hood update" - but because of challenges from the likes of Psystar, etc. It remains to be seen what the exact procedure will be, but I suspect Apple is tempted to make clones less affordable, and more difficult. For us regular users, it's no big deal putting in the new OS, it looking for the presence of the previous version, and then giving us a menu of install options including "Erase and install". If Psystar has to do that first, they are dead. Also, the licensor, Apple, has a right to request the license for the previous version, so Psystar couldn't get around it. Imagine hackintosh users trying to do this.. could be much more difficult as well.
  • Reply 33 of 53
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,827member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    There's a precedent for this -- I believe it was the 10.2 upgrade which checked for a previously installed version of OSX. It proved quite easy to find the file on the upgrade CD which checked for the previous version, remove it, and burn a new install disc. Not saying Apple will try this again, but it's not like they never have before.



    The end user shouldn't have to do this. If Apple wanted to really make some noise with this upgrade they should make it a set low price for everyone. I have a feeling there is going to be some mass confusion and disappointment come September.
  • Reply 34 of 53
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,827member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 8CoreWhore View Post


    Pure speculation here, but::: I wonder if Apple will do things a little different from now on - not just because it's an "under the hood update" - but because of challenges from the likes of Psystar, etc. It remains to be seen what the exact procedure will be, but I suspect Apple is tempted to make clones less affordable, and more difficult. For us regular users, it's no big deal putting in the new OS, it looking for the presence of the previous version, and then giving us a menu of install options including "Erase and install". If Psystar has to do that first, they are dead. Also, the licensor, Apple, has a right to request the license for the previous version, so Psystar couldn't get around it. Imagine hackintosh users trying to do this.. could be much more difficult as well.



    That could be true, but its unfortunate every honest user has to suffer because of these clowns...
  • Reply 35 of 53
    al_bundyal_bundy Posts: 1,525member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 8CoreWhore View Post


    Pure speculation here, but::: I wonder if Apple will do things a little different from now on - not just because it's an "under the hood update" - but because of challenges from the likes of Psystar, etc. It remains to be seen what the exact procedure will be, but I suspect Apple is tempted to make clones less affordable, and more difficult. For us regular users, it's no big deal putting in the new OS, it looking for the presence of the previous version, and then giving us a menu of install options including "Erase and install". If Psystar has to do that first, they are dead. Also, the licensor, Apple, has a right to request the license for the previous version, so Psystar couldn't get around it. Imagine hackintosh users trying to do this.. could be much more difficult as well.



    the hackintoshes are such a tiny niche i doubt apple cares or wants to invest the resources to make things harder for it's users.



    with TPM in the BIOS it might be easier for them to just sign the OS digitally and tie it to the BIOS
  • Reply 36 of 53
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    Time Machine is not terribly Tiger-friendly, if have to a clean install.



    Good point, but "clean installs" are almost never necessary, and once you're at Leopard level, Time Machine is a great way to go.



    The advice for cloning, I just don't understand. In fact I don't see any reason for it at all.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macxpress View Post


    The end user shouldn't have to do this. If Apple wanted to really make some noise with this upgrade they should make it a set low price for everyone. I have a feeling there is going to be some mass confusion and disappointment come September.



    I agree, but I was only saying that there's a precedent for Apple putting a previous version check into the installer. It may not be very "Apple like," but they have done it.
  • Reply 37 of 53
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,827member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    Good point, but "clean installs" are almost never necessary, and once you're at Leopard level, Time Machine is a great way to go.



    The advice for cloning, I just don't understand. In fact I don't see any reason for it at all.



    I will do an erase and install and then use Time Machine to restore my home folder stuff back in (not the actual folder). I always like to do an erase and install because I know I will have less issues.



    Typically when you see people having weird issues after doing just an "upgrade" its because they did just an upgrade. You wait and watch..happens every single release.
  • Reply 38 of 53
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,827member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    Good point, but "clean installs" are almost never necessary, and once you're at Leopard level, Time Machine is a great way to go.



    The advice for cloning, I just don't understand. In fact I don't see any reason for it at all.







    I agree, but I was only saying that there's a precedent for Apple putting a previous version check into the installer. It may not be very "Apple like," but they have done it.



    Yeah I know you could do something similar to make Leopard install on a Mac that had a G4 slower than 867 MHz. Its just a matter of extracting the correct file from the Leopard DVD, changing some settings so it looks for a slow frequency G4 and then save the file, put the file back where its supposed to be and re-burn the DVD. Its definitely possible and if Apple goes ahead with something silly like this there will be some geekery going on. Yes..I just made the word geekery up!
  • Reply 39 of 53
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macxpress View Post


    I will do an erase and install and then use Time Machine to restore my home folder stuff back in (not the actual folder). I always like to do an erase and install because I know I will have less issues.



    Typically when you see people having weird issues after doing just an "upgrade" its because they did just an upgrade. You wait and watch..happens every single release.



    Very rarely. Extremely rarely in fact, if you think at all in terms of the millions of people doing them. I've been doing upgrades literally for years, going all the way back to 10.1 -- with never one issue. Not one.



    Erase and Installs are not only a waste of time, I am convinced, they are also dangerous, especially to novice users. The Erase and Install fans will never tell you about the pitfalls, of which there are many.
  • Reply 40 of 53
    floccusfloccus Posts: 138member
    Here's an odd question, how are they going to calculate the tax? You're paying $9.99 for shipping and handling, which aren't taxed (or at least I've never seen them taxed). So are they going to charge you the relevant sales tax for a standard copy (~6% x $29 = $1.75) or based off the S&H (~$.60). Its not a big deal really, but it does make me wonder... and be happy I'm from a state w/o sales tax
Sign In or Register to comment.