Snow Leopard gets richer, thinner, cheaper than Windows 7

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  • Reply 161 of 190
    kevinn206kevinn206 Posts: 117member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Macintosh_Next View Post


    First off, welcome. Second off, they would be wrong. OS X is like Windows NT. Windows NT, being the core of the OS, hasn't received a major re-write in a very long time. It has been changed, features added onto it, but it's still basically the same technology. However, the same is true with OS X (or was Leopard a major re-write?), but the difference is -- OS X came in 2001, NT came in 1993. It is in a desperate need for a re-write, really is.



    I don't think any of us here would know well enough to tell how "new" Windows NT kernel is by looking at its original creation date. You are basing your "fact" from an article written for Windows NT Server 4.0. The NT kernel has gone through significant changes. Why don't you just read it here from one of the gurus in the NT kernel.



    The Windows kernel is robust enough to allow hybrid video cards from ATI/NVIDIA (that means having multiple GPU from different vendors in the same computer) or the ability to switch GPU on-the-fly without logging off, something that even Snow Leopard can't do. I write RTOS for microcontrollers, but I am nowhere knowledge enough to make such claim as "[the NT kernel] is in a desperate need for a rewrite" without any reason as why they need it. What are other reasons besides being first created in 1993? If there's anything they need to rewrite, it is the userland codes, not the kernel.



    http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/m...stakernel.aspx

    http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/m...stakernel.aspx

    http://channel9.msdn.com/shows/Going...ide-Windows-7/
  • Reply 162 of 190
    amoryaamorya Posts: 1,103member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bourgoises Pig View Post


    Watching Apple and Microsoft users fight reminds me of the 1990s when Novell admins argued with the Microsoft admins.... Entertaining, indeed!





    I am still waiting for the Apple equivalent of Norton Ghost. I want to backup/restore 10+ machines at the same time.



    What? MacIntoshes have no GUI utility to easily manage/copy default user profiles? Why not?



    Can't Apple Remote Desktop do that?



    Amorya
  • Reply 163 of 190
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kuku View Post


    Because people that are lured by netbooks are not Apple's target audience.



    Apple doesn't care, because people who buy apple will never even want to consider using browser based apps, or require more.



    For that they can use iphone



    Apple doesn't want to go into that dog fight, which it stay smart by profiting off HW rather then SW.



    MS has no choice. Most of the sales have always come from low end machines. High end machines tend to be corporate, that just resist everything, and MS can only depend on them in cycles, not all year.



    People always buy more computer equipment than they need or will ever use.



    Browser-based apps are the future - at least in the business world. Other than for audio editing, video editing, photo editing, and maybe gaming, locally installed applications are going away. Until recently, my users needed to run an application that was locally installed and configured. We have just installed the equivalent version of that application on an Apache web server. Result: My users now access the application via a web browser. It would be interesting to see how Apple modifies the iPhone to run browser-based, customized business applications. But this would be years from now.........



    Well then, what is the purpose of Xserve, if it cannot be used to run robust, enterprise applications. Is it supposed to be only a file and print server? *yawn* Eventually, Apple will need to compete with M$ in the server room if it wants a larger corporate presence.
  • Reply 164 of 190
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Amorya View Post


    Can't Apple Remote Desktop do that?



    Amorya



    Can Remote Desktop back up and restore a drive image using multicasting? Huh?
  • Reply 165 of 190
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kuku View Post


    WTF WTF WTF!



    10.5+ is system insensitive.



    You can plug 10 macs together with FW800 and Targetmount yourself imaging all you want.



    you can use a a script copy, drag and drop(make sure you get the invis), or Migtrate to your hearts content.



    And every single program, not MACaddress locked down, will work.



    Mac is like the easiest to Ghost machine ever! It automatically blesses, and auto detects drivers, and boots up just fine.



    Ghost has to be hacked to bits. It can't backup servers, it can't back up SATA drivers, SCSI drivers. And We've been given the still "beta" boot CD, to backup mount on disk



    Even a block level image of windows machine causes problems. It's not disk size scalable.



    And it gets worse if you have dell/HP recovery partitions and other weird stuff.



    Hahaha! O.k., I can see how FW800 cables would work. What if you are in an office, and you have more than 20 machines to restore? Well then, how can you multicast? Any links that explain how to do that would be appreciated. Thanks!
  • Reply 166 of 190
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,341member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bourgoises Pig View Post


    Well then, what is the purpose of Xserve, if it cannot be used to run robust, enterprise applications. Is it supposed to be only a file and print server? *yawn* Eventually, Apple will need to compete with M$ in the server room if it wants a larger corporate presence.



    That's just it. Apple doesn't.
  • Reply 167 of 190
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    That's just it. Apple doesn't.



    Apple does not want to expand its share of corporate users? Novell once had a strong market presence before Microsoft kicked it out of the server room with the release of NT server, Exchange, and AD. I had thought that once the market for Apple's consumer products matured (or flattened), then MacIntoshes would also invade the server room. What is the purpose of OD?



    Apple does not want to compete with M$ in the server room? I would love to know the reasons why. The reason "'cause they don't have to" does not explain why. I would love to see more Macs in the workplace, but your answer does not encourage me.
  • Reply 168 of 190
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,341member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bourgoises Pig View Post


    Apple does not want to expand its share of corporate users? Novell once had a strong market presence before Microsoft kicked it out of the server room with the release of NT server, Exchange, and AD. I had thought that once the market for Apple's consumer products matured (or flattened), then MacIntoshes would also invade the server room. What is the purpose of OD?



    Apple does not want to compete with M$ in the server room? I would love to know the reasons why. The reason "'cause they don't have to" does not explain why. I would love to see more Macs in the workplace, but your answer does not encourage me.



    Trust me I've been dreaming of Apple at least making a concerted push for the midmarket (say 20-500 seats) but they don't seem to have much desire to attack this market as witnessed by:



    1. Selling off their Xserve RAID array

    2. Not offering even a iSCSI initiator for iSCSI SAN

    3. No acquisitions that pertain to SMB, midmarket or Enterprise



    It appears that offering some features like Exchange support in Snow Leopard and and the iPhone integration is about as far as we're going to get.



    I understand Apple not wanting to invest in what could be a bottomless pit trying to compete against the HP/Dell/EMC out there but there is a market for the smaller companies that are getting stripped down Enterprise hardware that just doesn't function well at their level.



    I wish I was wrong but Apple's actions say "we're not interested"
  • Reply 169 of 190
    jlljll Posts: 2,710member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bourgoises Pig View Post


    Watching Apple and Microsoft users fight reminds me of the 1990s when Novell admins argued with the Microsoft admins.... Entertaining, indeed!





    I am still waiting for the Apple equivalent of Norton Ghost. I want to backup/restore 10+ machines at the same time.



    Wouldn't it be more fair to expect a third party equivalent? MS doesn't make Norton Ghost and there are many (both Apple made and made by others) solutions that can provide what you need.



    NetInstall has been a feature in Mac OS X for years and if you want more fine grained control, solutions like Casper and others could probably suit your needs.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bourgoises Pig View Post


    What? MacIntoshes have no GUI utility to easily manage/copy default user profiles?



    Workgroup Manager.
  • Reply 170 of 190
  • Reply 171 of 190
    kaiwaikaiwai Posts: 246member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post


    My advice to you is:
    1. Try making sense (the quote you give makes no sense given what you wrote after it)

    2. Learn to communicate without pornography





    "Learn to communicate without pornography" - mate, grow a pair. Typical America, happy to have half naked cheerleaders on television, a place called 'hooters' serving the public, and television shows that celebrate men sowing their wild oats for all and sundry - but when someone makes a flippent remark - oh lord! the world is coming to an end!
  • Reply 172 of 190
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,341member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kaiwai View Post


    "Learn to communicate without pornography" - mate, grow a pair. Typical America, happy to have half naked cheerleaders on television, a place called 'hooters' serving the public, and television shows that celebrate men sowing their wild oats for all and sundry - but when someone makes a flippent remark - oh lord! the world is coming to an end!



    I <3 America!
  • Reply 173 of 190
    kaiwaikaiwai Posts: 246member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TiAdiMundo View Post


    Oh my god...



    First: how you know that Snow Leopard will be cheaper than Windows 7? When you buy a new PC you will get a FREE upgrade to 7 soon. And even owners of old PCs can buy 7 and improve their system without buying new hardware. Snow Leopard only runs on the newest hardware (as you mentioned).



    Bullcrap. You can run Snow Leopard on old Intel Mac's. You don't get a free upgrade - provide me with a link where my parents can get their free upgrade to Windows 7 for the machine they bought at the beginning of the year - or is that what you consider 'old'?



    What a pathetic sycophant you are.



    As for BluRay - show me a bluray writer for less than NZ$200, and media that is less than NZ$5 a piece, then I might give a toss.
  • Reply 174 of 190
    kaiwaikaiwai Posts: 246member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by allblue View Post


    I would have thought it was obvious why their marketing department came up with the 'Windows 7' moniker. They knew it would be coming out soon after 10.6, and quite some time before 10.7. This suggests, on a subliminal level, that their operating system is one step ahead of Apple's.



    Has nothing to do with that - Microsoft's biggest competitor is themselves; moving customers to the new version. Windows 7 moniker was little more than an attempt to place a wedge between Windows Vista and Windows 7 as to make a clear distinction that they are nothing alike. Its the same sort of marketing technique that one employee's when a person takes over another business and puts up a sign that says, "under new management".
  • Reply 175 of 190
    kaiwaikaiwai Posts: 246member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by majortom1981 View Post


    I dont understand what this article was trying to say.



    Why bash neowin? Unlike this site neowin has a lot of apple users and windows users. Neowin tends to be more fair then this site. Dont give me this but its an apple site. Technically neowin would be a windows website but they are much more equal in their support for all things computers.



    Also Vista was a huge rewrite in windows why should 7 be a rewrite when vista did much of that.



    Also For everything that was done in snow leopard the same changes were made in 7



    Apple also apple bashing things that make windows better for somethings is not something they should be doing like bashing the registry. The registry makes things like group policy possible.



    Also i would like to see how much of this making snow leopard faster was just due to removing the legacy code. Something wich microsoft cant due to how many businesses run windows on older systems.







    I have an apple at work and just bought an iphone 3gs but i find how much apple fans and apple themselves bash microsoft to be disgusting.



    PS Microsoft does this with 360 vs nintendo which i find equally disgusgting





    And the registry is the *only* way of having group policies? I suggest you learn about Solaris and how it magically delivers better fine grained security without the need for an ugly registry.
  • Reply 176 of 190
    kaiwaikaiwai Posts: 246member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jminnihan View Post


    Address randomization? Yup, Apple has that covered in Snow Leopard too!



    http://www.apple.com/macosx/what-is-.../security.html



    IF ASLR anything like it was in Leopard - it is of a very basic nature and not a system wide function - its a shame that Apple provides a lot of great features but doesn't utilise them in their own software. Sandboxing would be a great way to secure Quicktime and Safari when coupled with ASLR - something Apple has failed to do.
  • Reply 177 of 190
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,949member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kaiwai View Post


    Bullcrap. You can run Snow Leopard on old Intel Mac's. You don't get a free upgrade - provide me with a link where my parents can get their free upgrade to Windows 7 for the machine they bought at the beginning of the year - or is that what you consider 'old'?



    What a pathetic sycophant you are.



    How about not trying to demean people every third post? Your postings say a lot more about you than the people you are trying to communicate with.
  • Reply 178 of 190
    taurontauron Posts: 911member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kaiwai View Post


    IF ASLR anything like it was in Leopard - it is of a very basic nature and not a system wide function - its a shame that Apple provides a lot of great features but doesn't utilise them in their own software. Sandboxing would be a great way to secure Quicktime and Safari when coupled with ASLR - something Apple has failed to do.



    Yes, because you know better than apple engineers... do they even have universities in New Zeland?
  • Reply 179 of 190
    kaiwaikaiwai Posts: 246member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tauron View Post


    Yes, because you know better than apple engineers... do they even have universities in New Zeland?



    Hey dickhead - that is where I got the information from when it comes to their use of ASLR. I assumed it was system wide until I read a briefing relating to Mac OS X security - I found it that it wasn't the case.



    Btw, thanks for pulling the world into an economic crisis as well as the war in Iraq - doing a damn marvellous job in the 'land of the free, home of the clueless'.
  • Reply 180 of 190
    kaiwaikaiwai Posts: 246member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    How about not trying to demean people every third post? Your postings say a lot more about you than the people you are trying to communicate with.



    Nice to see you're ignoring the original post I replied to - but hey, that would mean you actually doing your job as a moderator and following the complete chain of replies rather than just the reply YOU want to focus on.
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