Elvis Is Alive In My OS!

mrmister · October 15, 2002 3:51PM

So...we will get Elvis, a true journaled file system in the release of 10.2.2:

<a href="http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,634711,00.asp"; target="_blank">Article on Apple's JFS, codenamed "Elvis"</a>

It is turned off by default, because when it is on it incurs a 10 to 15 percent performance hit.

So...we have lost labels, but now we have a JFS that slows down an already marginally speedy OS?

I'm glad Apple is innovating, but man...if the speed just isn't there until the PPC970 comes in and picks up the slack, couldn't they just ENABLE THE DAMN LABELS so we have something we could use to tag things without a massive speed penalty?

That is rhetorical. Of course they could. They choose not to.

[ 10-16-2002: Message edited by: mrmister ]

mrmister · October 15, 2002 4:27PM

Interesting tidbit from /.:

"Re:10-15% (Score:5, Informative)

by rgmoore on 10-15-02 15:24 (#4455587)

Journaling means that if your system isn't shut down cleanly, it won't take forever to fsck your disk the next time you start up. The journal will contain all the information the system needs to get the system into a consistent state after an unclean shutdown. In addition, if the system journals all data instead of just metadata (as most journaling systems seem to do) it will prevent data loss, too.

Also bear in mind that it won't cost you 10-15% of your system resources; it will slow down disk operations by 10-15%, which is a much smaller penalty. If you aren't doing really disk intensive stuff, you probably won't even notice the slowdown. If you are doing lots of disk intensive activities, you'll probably like the fact that you're less likely to be hosed if your system crashes in the middle of one."

If *that's* the case, I'm much more excited about Elvis!

kali · October 15, 2002 5:30PM

I knew it ! I knew Apple was in the process of slowing down again the OS with another *&?%$#@ useless process for the home user.

After less than a month on my new DDR Mac, I can already say OS 10.2.1 is still much slower than OS 9, too much for my personnal taste.

I'm a power user at home. When I work on my computer, I want all feedbacks to be fast, instantaneous. I'm beginning to frustrate with OS X (Geez ! It's running on a pretty fast machine !). I find this situation unnaceptable. Will I downgrade to OS 9 ?

I can tolerate a slow rendering (in Bryce or Photoshop, for example), but I can't stand a sluggish user interface.

I already miss my old Quadra with sys 7.1, which was so fast in the UI.

serrano · October 15, 2002 6:01PM

[quote]Originally posted by Kali:

I knew it ! I knew Apple was in the process of slowing down again the OS with another *&?%$#@ useless process for the home user.

After less than a month on my new DDR Mac, I can already say OS 10.2.1 is still much slower than OS 9, too much for my personnal taste.

I'm a power user at home. When I work on my computer, I want all feedbacks to be fast, instantaneous. I'm beginning to frustrate with OS X (Geez ! It's running on a pretty fast machine !). I find this situation unnaceptable. Will I downgrade to OS 9 ?

I can tolerate a slow rendering (in Bryce or Photoshop, for example), but I can't stand a sluggish user interface.

I already miss my old Quadra with sys 7.1, which was so fast in the UI.

mrmister · October 15, 2002 6:34PM

i don't think it is all that funny, frankly--I think the GUI is too slow, and wanting feedback to be instantaneous is not an unreasonable expectation.

frawgz · October 15, 2002 7:12PM

Have any of you paid attention to the fact that the new journaling capability will be turned off by default?

By the way, what does this have to do with labels?

kickaha · October 15, 2002 9:19PM

Not a blasted thing. Labels just seem to be the latest soapbox.

mrmister · October 15, 2002 10:16PM

I was just pointing out, again, that labels should have been implemented, as we are getting nothing that actually replaces their functionallity. Admittedly, others have been more heated, but i wouldn't call it a "soapbox"--it is a legitimate concern and issue.

mrmister · October 15, 2002 10:20PM

And yes, I saw that it is off by default...but i don't see how this impacts anything I've been saying.

torifile · October 15, 2002 11:22PM

[quote]Originally posted by Kali:

I knew it ! I knew Apple was in the process of slowing down again the OS with another *&?%$#@ useless process for the home user.

After less than a month on my new DDR Mac, I can already say OS 10.2.1 is still much slower than OS 9, too much for my personnal taste.

I'm a power user at home. When I work on my computer, I want all feedbacks to be fast, instantaneous. I'm beginning to frustrate with OS X (Geez ! It's running on a pretty fast machine !). I find this situation unnaceptable. Will I downgrade to OS 9 ?

I can tolerate a slow rendering (in Bryce or Photoshop, for example), but I can't stand a sluggish user interface.

I already miss my old Quadra with sys 7.1, which was so fast in the UI.

<hr></blockquote>

Everyone should be entitled to one STFU post every once in a while, right? Well, here's mine:

[ 10-16-2002: Message edited by: torifile ]

ghost_user_name · October 16, 2002 1:46AM

[quote]Originally posted by mrmister:

we are getting nothing that actually replaces their functionallity.<hr></blockquote>Hmm. Really?

So, every time Apple updates one thing and doesn't update something else that is unrelated, I can complain? Yipee!!

Here's my first attempt:

Apple gives us CUPS for adding extra printers in OSX but Apple refuses to port iPhoto to Windows.

What is up with that?

How did I do?

arbernaut · October 16, 2002 1:56AM

I love OSX, but I do find the UI slow and unresponsive. It's a pain, but I'll live with it. I can't see any real speed increases happening for me until I upgrade my 933Mhz G4 to something snappier?... <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />

On those infrequent occassions when I journey back to OS9, the interface seems cluttered (what's with all those folders opening up all over the place???

) and I just plain don't like it any more. BUT THE SPEED OF THE INTERFACE IS MINDBLOWING!!! ZIPPY SPIFFY AND RESPONSIVE!!!

If OSX had the same... zip I'd be a happy man.

wfzelle · October 16, 2002 2:20AM

[quote]Originally posted by Brad:

Hmm. Really?

So, every time Apple updates one thing and doesn't update something else that is unrelated, I can complain? Yipee!!

Here's my first attempt:

Apple gives us CUPS for adding extra printers in OSX but Apple refuses to port iPhoto to Windows.

What is up with that?

How did I do?

<hr></blockquote>

Metadata (labels) and journaling are actually related in that they were both in the BeFS. People wonder why Apple wants the one, but not the other. Besides, it's difficult to find a good reason to bash Apple when they never actually say anything on the subject anymore.

mrmister · October 16, 2002 6:05AM

What he said.

[quote]So, every time Apple updates one thing and doesn't update something else that is unrelated, I can complain? <hr></blockquote>

If being hyperbolic makes you happy, then by all means, rock out.

code master · October 16, 2002 6:50AM

Perhaps the system isn't as responsive in X (though I have no real complaints on a G4 400) but I was in 9 over the weekend to play games and I couldn't stand it... waiting for an application to launch and not being able to do anything else... waiting for IE to render something or figure something out and not being able to do anything else... Not fun

chucker · October 16, 2002 7:31AM

[quote]Originally posted by Kali:

I knew it ! I knew Apple was in the process of slowing down again the OS with another *&?%$#@ useless process for the home user.

After less than a month on my new DDR Mac, I can already say OS 10.2.1 is still much slower than OS 9, too much for my personnal taste.

I'm a power user at home. When I work on my computer, I want all feedbacks to be fast, instantaneous. I'm beginning to frustrate with OS X (Geez ! It's running on a pretty fast machine !). I find this situation unnaceptable. Will I downgrade to OS 9 ?

I can tolerate a slow rendering (in Bryce or Photoshop, for example), but I can't stand a sluggish user interface.

I already miss my old Quadra with sys 7.1, which was so fast in the UI.

<hr></blockquote>

Exactly how does an additional file system layer decrease UI speed? And exactly where is the problem considering that you can turn it off if you don't want or need it?

kickaha · October 16, 2002 11:06AM

[quote]Originally posted by Chucker:



Exactly how does an additional file system layer decrease UI speed?<hr></blockquote>

It doesn't. This is a misinterpretation of a comment that Elvis will slow down *disk access* by 10-15%.

[quote] And exactly where is the problem considering that you can turn it off if you don't want or need it?<hr></blockquote>

There isn't one.

kickaha · October 16, 2002 11:12AM

[quote]Originally posted by wfzelle:



Metadata (labels) and journaling are actually related in that they were both in the BeFS.<hr></blockquote>

So since filenames and filetypes were both in BeFS, that means *those* are related? Cool, I think we just found the justification for filename extensions. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />

Proximity does not imply conceptual relationship.

The two concepts are orthogonal, and have nothing to do with one another.

[quote] People wonder why Apple wants the one, but not the other. <hr></blockquote>

I wonder why this assumption keeps getting made in the face of a lack of evidence to support it.

Just because you're not privy to Apple's inner circle doesn't mean that it isn't a high priority. Read the signs and portents in various UI elements (particularly in the dev tools) to see nascent forays into *rich* metadata handling.

When every arrow on the map points to the same spot, why do some insist on driving off into another county? *sigh*

[quote]Besides, it's difficult to find a good reason to bash Apple when they never actually say anything on the subject anymore.

<hr></blockquote>

Doesn't seem to stop anyone...

Elvis has zilch to do with labels. If I were an Eeeeeevil Moderator, I'd edit the subject line to reflect this.

mrmister · October 16, 2002 11:36AM

There you go!

kickaha · October 16, 2002 11:44AM

*laugh* Perfect.

artman @_@ · October 16, 2002 1:31PM

<a href="http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,634711,00.asp"; target="_blank">This</a> + <a href="http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0210/16.ibm.php"; target="_blank">this</a> = Having to buy a newer, faster Mac. Seems to be the way Apple has done things for the past few years...so why change?

I haven't upgraded to 10.2 yet. I have G3 700 iMac and have switched to OS X. I haven't really had GUI issues or OS issues. It's been other people's software (Graphic Converter vanishes after a few minutes and Photoshop 7's Image Browser is slooow as a dog...even with their recent update).

Just seems to be business as usual with Apple... <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />

Elvis Is Alive In My OS!

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