1st, apple will NEVER EVER, sell the pro apps (they have maybe half of the creative pro market) they arent going to give it up anytime soon (b/c software is cheap but apple hardware is expensive)
2nd apple is in a better position to buy adobe (trash its production suite) and turn its design and web suites into mac only
3rd
going back to the initial prediction
so it seems like a 2009 release
disc studio 5 -- bd java + bd live
compressor 4 -- blu-ray + dolby true-hd + pcm 8 channel + dts hd ma
fcs 7 - higher bit depths (16bit 5k - red epic has to be supported right)
motion/phenomenon might be merged, but it might not be (depends on if they can make a phenomenon studio)
1. A rebuild of FCP 7 for better support of RAW, 4K+ resolution, improved 1080p real-time engines. Better support for 10-bit, 12-bit and 14-bit color. ProRes 444 or ProRes RGB would be nice too.
2. An updated FCP UI that is more consistent with Soundtrack, DVDSP, Etc.
3. Soundtrack Pro needs to have it's menu's and shortcuts re-designed. Repetitive tasks like compression are buried and cannot be added to the toolbar. Export options for Dolby, DTS and all their variants (either natively or via a 'send to Compressor'). Apple needs to pay more attention to why SoundForge kicks it's ass.
4. Color's UI needs to be overhauled. Color also needs to natively support RAW, 4K+ resolution, improved 1080p real-time performance. Also it needs improved round-tripping with FCP (it's a pain in the ass the collapse all layers before sending to Color).
5. DVD Studio Pro needs to support the new interface architecture of Blu-Ray. Hell, I don't even know what language blu-ray's menu's are designed in. Flash? Plus we need full blu-ray authoring support.
6. Motion needs to include Shake's node workflow. Otherwise I'm sticking with After Effects. I never use Motion because I'm a died-in-the-wool AE guy. Apple needs to give more compelling reasons to start using Motion (or whatever the hell Phenomenon is supposed to be).
7. Cinema Tools needs to be folded into Compressor and dropped as a stand-alone app. Compressor has a nifty "intelligent guesser" for removing 3:2 pulldown frames, but it clips super white's above 100IRE. Doh! Bad, bad, bad. Cinema Tools leaves the footage unmolested but does not batch process without a cadence database. Can we get these two things merged?
but it clips super white's above 100IRE. Doh! Bad, bad, bad.
Out of curiousity, is that truly bad? I thought 100IRE is effectively "out of band" for real video and is only useful for calibration. I don't think all video players even output above it.
Out of curiousity, is that truly bad? I thought 100IRE is effectively "out of band" for real video and is only useful for calibration. I don't think all video players even output above it.
Yes, for video distribution you want to clip that whites at 100IRE. You basically want your video in Rec 601 (SD) and Rec 709 (HD) for broadcast.
However, if you're doing work for film and your project will require a film-out, then you want to preserve as much white detail as possible since 35mm has so much highlight latitude.
And even if you do only plan for broadcast or DVD distribution, you may want to retain your highlight information during the color correction process (and then clamp then as your final pass). For instance, if your scenes are intentionally over-lit by a stop or two and you want to bring down your gamma considerably, those highlights over 100IRE will also drop down into legal color space. This is good because it preserves that detail throughout.
5. DVD Studio Pro needs to support the new interface architecture of Blu-Ray. Hell, I don't even know what language blu-ray's menu's are designed in. Flash? Plus we need full blu-ray authoring support.
if it is important enough to you then email apple and let them know, because atm they don't feel there is a market outside of the big studios and hope to skip straight to downloads.
if it is important enough to you then email apple and let them know, because atm they don't feel there is a market outside of the big studios and hope to skip straight to downloads.
I already have. In fact I gave one of the Apple reps a ration of shit a few months ago at the LAFCPUG meeting for not making DVDSP a bigger competitor in the professional authoring arena like FCP did against Avid.
I produced a massive DVD project for Disney's 50th Anniversary Yearbook in DVDSP. The scripting environment required for the project was a nightmare. The project ended up a success, but the behind-the-scenes effort to produce it was herculean and really shouldn't have been.
I'm glad there is a lot of discussion about Final Cut Studio. I personally would hate to consider the future of FCS if Apple sold it to Adobe. I like the philosophy from Apple of "Buy our great hardware, and get great apps designed specifically for that hardware."
As for DVD Studio Pro, I really like using that as my authoring tool. My clients who spend thousands of dollars shooting HD would like to have a Blu-Ray copy to view on HDTVs. If DVDSP isn't upgraded to include Blu-Ray authoring, then it will become only a consumer tool, not a pro app.
I'm glad there is a lot of discussion about Final Cut Studio. I personally would hate to consider the future of FCS if Apple sold it to Adobe. I like the philosophy from Apple of "Buy our great hardware, and get great apps designed specifically for that hardware."
As for DVD Studio Pro, I really like using that as my authoring tool. My clients who spend thousands of dollars shooting HD would like to have a Blu-Ray copy to view on HDTVs. If DVDSP isn't upgraded to include Blu-Ray authoring, then it will become only a consumer tool, not a pro app.
Blu-ray doesn't denote Professional or Amateur that is a matter of personal opinion. I understand your frustration but it's not the only way to deliver HD content to your clients. I'd rather be able to deliver HD on DVD to keep costs down. There is a BD-9 spec that may never see the light of day because of politics. Frankly I don't want to deliver in a format that is dwarfed by DVD as my only HD option.
Blu-ray doesn't denote Professional or Amateur that is a matter of personal opinion. I understand your frustration but it's not the only way to deliver HD content to your clients. I'd rather be able to deliver HD on DVD to keep costs down. There is a BD-9 spec that may never see the light of day because of politics. Frankly I don't want to deliver in a format that is dwarfed by DVD as my only HD option.
I thought we already have something like "BD-9". I don't know if it supports interactive stuff, but at least you can burn video as AVCHD to a DVD and a Blu-Ray player will play it, and Apple's software can re-import it if need be. It works pretty well for me.
Well i found the article interesting and i actually always had the feeling that this may indeed come. But if that did happen, i doubt they would be stupid enough to sell their own apps, they would just take the Creative Suite (Design and Web parts) and toss out the video part and voila, (oh and merge Lightroom with Aperture), problem solved. And i doubt antitrust violations would apply when for FCP, there are many alternatives like AVid , sony vegas and Pinnacle, etc. and for Photoshop there is Corel Paint Pro and for Aperture there are many versions, etc., Logic Pro also has competitors along with Shake/Motion/Phenomenon/After Effects such as Combustion/Inferno/... from Autodesk, or Cinema 4D ...
But i really think that apple will keep the Pro Apps, otherwise in the future, they may lose the creative professional market share (and where the media is the people go)
For instnace
Logic Studio --> CD//Internet --> iTunes
Final Cut Studio --> DVD/Blu ray --> DVD Player (probably renamed Disc Player)
---> Internet --> iTunes
so u get the point, (even playing a DVD on XP is a pain with the need for an external player and what not (Cyberlink PowerDVD or WinDVD are not perfect (buggy) compared to DVD Player)
And hopefully Apple is merely waiting until the format war was over and then for Bluray's wide acceptance (ie. Sony was in talks with Apple, but they could not get a burner only a read only BD drive b/c of power and price (so im waiting for June to be full of surprises)
"Apple's recent hardware successes have come at the expense of Dell and HP," Cringely writes
Um NO. Apple is absolutely no competition to HP regarding hardware. We probably sell more servers in a week than Xserves have sold in their entirety. HP provides hardware for ILM and Dreamworks amongst many others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cringley
"Apple's decision to not yet ship systems with Blu-ray drives or even support third-party or external Blu-ray drives in its professional applications has caused consternation in the $4 billion event video industry... This has hurt Mac sales and Final Cut sales, and since Steve Jobs isn't stupid it is probably deliberate," Cringley writes.
Bullshit. The penetration of Blu-ray is pathetic as compared to DVD. Blu-ray just barely won the battle against HD DVD. Compressor has a plugin format that can take your video and at least encode it for Blu-ray targetting from Telestream I believe. The BD-Java support in TODAY's players is iffy. Blu-ray has not caused Apple any pain whatsoever.
Occam's Razor
Apple didn't exhibit at NAB because they have to rewrite Final Cut Studio. Carbon-64 is dead and FCS needs to go 64-bit.
I like Cringley's articles but his accuracy is POOR. Remember the whole "Apple's going to add a special chipe to encode/decode HD"?
He's a "pie in the sky" guesser.
Apple's Pro Apps further their initiatives Quicktime, Core Audio/Video/Image/Animation and more. Without Pro Apps they lose the margins of the Mac Pro. Not going to happen.
A friend of mine who works at Apple replied to an email I sent him about 10 days ago (he's actually an ILM employee who also consults with Apple on Shake). Everyone over there is basically laughing at all the "Apple selling FCP!" hysteria. And they don't mind the rumor. It allows their competitors to relax long enough to let their guard then and then openings them up for Apple to clobber them with big surprises later this year.
I asked if the Studio suite was a loss lead for Apple. He responded, "Hell no. The Pro Apps are a cash cow for Apple. The only app doing poorly is Aperture and even it has doubled it's business with the release of 2.0."
Pro Apps sell MacPro's and MacPro's sell Pro Apps. It's an integral part of their marketing strategy. Pro Apps are going nowhere.
Um NO. Apple is absolutely no competition to HP regarding hardware. We probably sell more servers in a week than Xserves have sold in their entirety. HP provides hardware for ILM and Dreamworks amongst many others.
Bullshit. The penetration of Blu-ray is pathetic as compared to DVD. Blu-ray just barely won the battle against HD DVD. Compressor has a plugin format that can take your video and at least encode it for Blu-ray targetting from Telestream I believe. The BD-Java support in TODAY's players is iffy. Blu-ray has not caused Apple any pain whatsoever.
Occam's Razor
Apple didn't exhibit at NAB because they have to rewrite Final Cut Studio. Carbon-64 is dead and FCS needs to go 64-bit.
I like Cringley's articles but his accuracy is POOR. Remember the whole "Apple's going to add a special chipe to encode/decode HD"?
He's a "pie in the sky" guesser.
Apple's Pro Apps further their initiatives Quicktime, Core Audio/Video/Image/Animation and more. Without Pro Apps they lose the margins of the Mac Pro. Not going to happen.
full stop
Playing devils advocate, Apple picked up DVD technology when it was insignificant compared to cassettes. Some times you have to do something to look like your ahead of the curve.
Apple didn't exhibit at NAB because they have to rewrite Final Cut Studio.
I don't think that's even the biggest reason they didn't exhibit at NAB. As far as I'm concerned, it's a shift in marketing tactics. Apple was there, just not with their own centralized booth. I've heard that they did have reps at key booths supporting certain vendors, and they were at an off-show event too.
The consensus over at dvcreators.net is that the NAB just wanted way too much money for Apple to have a booth when they didn't have anything new to showcase. Just a simple matter of not being worth the investment.
Comments
My own personal thoughts are that DVD Studio Pro will be upgraded to include Blu-Ray authoring.
not in the near future.
1st, apple will NEVER EVER, sell the pro apps (they have maybe half of the creative pro market) they arent going to give it up anytime soon (b/c software is cheap but apple hardware is expensive)
2nd apple is in a better position to buy adobe (trash its production suite) and turn its design and web suites into mac only
3rd
going back to the initial prediction
so it seems like a 2009 release
disc studio 5 -- bd java + bd live
compressor 4 -- blu-ray + dolby true-hd + pcm 8 channel + dts hd ma
fcs 7 - higher bit depths (16bit 5k - red epic has to be supported right)
motion/phenomenon might be merged, but it might not be (depends on if they can make a phenomenon studio)
color will be updated for reliability
1. A rebuild of FCP 7 for better support of RAW, 4K+ resolution, improved 1080p real-time engines. Better support for 10-bit, 12-bit and 14-bit color. ProRes 444 or ProRes RGB would be nice too.
2. An updated FCP UI that is more consistent with Soundtrack, DVDSP, Etc.
3. Soundtrack Pro needs to have it's menu's and shortcuts re-designed. Repetitive tasks like compression are buried and cannot be added to the toolbar. Export options for Dolby, DTS and all their variants (either natively or via a 'send to Compressor'). Apple needs to pay more attention to why SoundForge kicks it's ass.
4. Color's UI needs to be overhauled. Color also needs to natively support RAW, 4K+ resolution, improved 1080p real-time performance. Also it needs improved round-tripping with FCP (it's a pain in the ass the collapse all layers before sending to Color).
5. DVD Studio Pro needs to support the new interface architecture of Blu-Ray. Hell, I don't even know what language blu-ray's menu's are designed in. Flash? Plus we need full blu-ray authoring support.
6. Motion needs to include Shake's node workflow. Otherwise I'm sticking with After Effects. I never use Motion because I'm a died-in-the-wool AE guy. Apple needs to give more compelling reasons to start using Motion (or whatever the hell Phenomenon is supposed to be).
7. Cinema Tools needs to be folded into Compressor and dropped as a stand-alone app. Compressor has a nifty "intelligent guesser" for removing 3:2 pulldown frames, but it clips super white's above 100IRE. Doh! Bad, bad, bad. Cinema Tools leaves the footage unmolested but does not batch process without a cadence database. Can we get these two things merged?
but it clips super white's above 100IRE. Doh! Bad, bad, bad.
Out of curiousity, is that truly bad? I thought 100IRE is effectively "out of band" for real video and is only useful for calibration. I don't think all video players even output above it.
Out of curiousity, is that truly bad? I thought 100IRE is effectively "out of band" for real video and is only useful for calibration. I don't think all video players even output above it.
Yes, for video distribution you want to clip that whites at 100IRE. You basically want your video in Rec 601 (SD) and Rec 709 (HD) for broadcast.
However, if you're doing work for film and your project will require a film-out, then you want to preserve as much white detail as possible since 35mm has so much highlight latitude.
And even if you do only plan for broadcast or DVD distribution, you may want to retain your highlight information during the color correction process (and then clamp then as your final pass). For instance, if your scenes are intentionally over-lit by a stop or two and you want to bring down your gamma considerably, those highlights over 100IRE will also drop down into legal color space. This is good because it preserves that detail throughout.
5. DVD Studio Pro needs to support the new interface architecture of Blu-Ray. Hell, I don't even know what language blu-ray's menu's are designed in. Flash? Plus we need full blu-ray authoring support.
BD-J: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BD-J
if it is important enough to you then email apple and let them know, because atm they don't feel there is a market outside of the big studios and hope to skip straight to downloads.
BD-J: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BD-J
if it is important enough to you then email apple and let them know, because atm they don't feel there is a market outside of the big studios and hope to skip straight to downloads.
I already have. In fact I gave one of the Apple reps a ration of shit a few months ago at the LAFCPUG meeting for not making DVDSP a bigger competitor in the professional authoring arena like FCP did against Avid.
I produced a massive DVD project for Disney's 50th Anniversary Yearbook in DVDSP. The scripting environment required for the project was a nightmare. The project ended up a success, but the behind-the-scenes effort to produce it was herculean and really shouldn't have been.
http://jimhillmedia.com/blogs/chris_...7/12/3984.aspx
As for DVD Studio Pro, I really like using that as my authoring tool. My clients who spend thousands of dollars shooting HD would like to have a Blu-Ray copy to view on HDTVs. If DVDSP isn't upgraded to include Blu-Ray authoring, then it will become only a consumer tool, not a pro app.
I'm glad there is a lot of discussion about Final Cut Studio. I personally would hate to consider the future of FCS if Apple sold it to Adobe. I like the philosophy from Apple of "Buy our great hardware, and get great apps designed specifically for that hardware."
As for DVD Studio Pro, I really like using that as my authoring tool. My clients who spend thousands of dollars shooting HD would like to have a Blu-Ray copy to view on HDTVs. If DVDSP isn't upgraded to include Blu-Ray authoring, then it will become only a consumer tool, not a pro app.
Blu-ray doesn't denote Professional or Amateur that is a matter of personal opinion. I understand your frustration but it's not the only way to deliver HD content to your clients. I'd rather be able to deliver HD on DVD to keep costs down. There is a BD-9 spec that may never see the light of day because of politics. Frankly I don't want to deliver in a format that is dwarfed by DVD as my only HD option.
Blu-ray doesn't denote Professional or Amateur that is a matter of personal opinion. I understand your frustration but it's not the only way to deliver HD content to your clients. I'd rather be able to deliver HD on DVD to keep costs down. There is a BD-9 spec that may never see the light of day because of politics. Frankly I don't want to deliver in a format that is dwarfed by DVD as my only HD option.
I thought we already have something like "BD-9". I don't know if it supports interactive stuff, but at least you can burn video as AVCHD to a DVD and a Blu-Ray player will play it, and Apple's software can re-import it if need be. It works pretty well for me.
http://macdailynews.com/index.php/we...omments/17171/
But i really think that apple will keep the Pro Apps, otherwise in the future, they may lose the creative professional market share (and where the media is the people go)
For instnace
Logic Studio --> CD//Internet --> iTunes
Final Cut Studio --> DVD/Blu ray --> DVD Player (probably renamed Disc Player)
---> Internet --> iTunes
so u get the point, (even playing a DVD on XP is a pain with the need for an external player and what not (Cyberlink PowerDVD or WinDVD are not perfect (buggy) compared to DVD Player)
And hopefully Apple is merely waiting until the format war was over and then for Bluray's wide acceptance (ie. Sony was in talks with Apple, but they could not get a burner only a read only BD drive b/c of power and price (so im waiting for June to be full of surprises)
June Predictions
- iPhone Gen 2 (w/ 3G)
Looks like something may be brewing...
http://macdailynews.com/index.php/we...omments/17171/
"Apple's recent hardware successes have come at the expense of Dell and HP," Cringely writes
Um NO. Apple is absolutely no competition to HP regarding hardware. We probably sell more servers in a week than Xserves have sold in their entirety. HP provides hardware for ILM and Dreamworks amongst many others.
"Apple's decision to not yet ship systems with Blu-ray drives or even support third-party or external Blu-ray drives in its professional applications has caused consternation in the $4 billion event video industry... This has hurt Mac sales and Final Cut sales, and since Steve Jobs isn't stupid it is probably deliberate," Cringley writes.
Bullshit. The penetration of Blu-ray is pathetic as compared to DVD. Blu-ray just barely won the battle against HD DVD. Compressor has a plugin format that can take your video and at least encode it for Blu-ray targetting from Telestream I believe. The BD-Java support in TODAY's players is iffy. Blu-ray has not caused Apple any pain whatsoever.
Occam's Razor
Apple didn't exhibit at NAB because they have to rewrite Final Cut Studio. Carbon-64 is dead and FCS needs to go 64-bit.
I like Cringley's articles but his accuracy is POOR. Remember the whole "Apple's going to add a special chipe to encode/decode HD"?
He's a "pie in the sky" guesser.
Apple's Pro Apps further their initiatives Quicktime, Core Audio/Video/Image/Animation and more. Without Pro Apps they lose the margins of the Mac Pro. Not going to happen.
full stop
I asked if the Studio suite was a loss lead for Apple. He responded, "Hell no. The Pro Apps are a cash cow for Apple. The only app doing poorly is Aperture and even it has doubled it's business with the release of 2.0."
Pro Apps sell MacPro's and MacPro's sell Pro Apps. It's an integral part of their marketing strategy. Pro Apps are going nowhere.
Phew!
FCP passes the million mark
Um NO. Apple is absolutely no competition to HP regarding hardware. We probably sell more servers in a week than Xserves have sold in their entirety. HP provides hardware for ILM and Dreamworks amongst many others.
Bullshit. The penetration of Blu-ray is pathetic as compared to DVD. Blu-ray just barely won the battle against HD DVD. Compressor has a plugin format that can take your video and at least encode it for Blu-ray targetting from Telestream I believe. The BD-Java support in TODAY's players is iffy. Blu-ray has not caused Apple any pain whatsoever.
Occam's Razor
Apple didn't exhibit at NAB because they have to rewrite Final Cut Studio. Carbon-64 is dead and FCS needs to go 64-bit.
I like Cringley's articles but his accuracy is POOR. Remember the whole "Apple's going to add a special chipe to encode/decode HD"?
He's a "pie in the sky" guesser.
Apple's Pro Apps further their initiatives Quicktime, Core Audio/Video/Image/Animation and more. Without Pro Apps they lose the margins of the Mac Pro. Not going to happen.
full stop
Playing devils advocate, Apple picked up DVD technology when it was insignificant compared to cassettes. Some times you have to do something to look like your ahead of the curve.
Apple didn't exhibit at NAB because they have to rewrite Final Cut Studio.
I don't think that's even the biggest reason they didn't exhibit at NAB. As far as I'm concerned, it's a shift in marketing tactics. Apple was there, just not with their own centralized booth. I've heard that they did have reps at key booths supporting certain vendors, and they were at an off-show event too.