Apple's iPhone "wrecking" the cell industry

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  • Reply 61 of 210
    alanskyalansky Posts: 235member
    One must assume, despite the article's tone, that the author understands deep down that Apple has "wrecked" the cellular industry in the best possible way. All U.S. cellular providers gouge their customers and maintain a totally excessive degree of control. This has to change. All U.S. cellular networks are underpowered compared to many other parts of the world. This has to change.



    AT&T, as many others point out, totally deserves to be cast as the villain in the iPhone drama. They most definitely oversold the capacity of their network and are denying essential features to their iPhone customers to conceal the fact that their existing network simply can't keep up with the iPhone--or rather, can't keep up with iPhone owners' demand for bandwidth as more and more people discover what you can do with this amazing device. It's a whole new ball game, and nobody likes it except Apple and their millions of iPhone customers. The best way to maximize profits is to change as little as possible for as long as possible, and the cellular industry has been getting away with almost total stagnation for far too long. Apple's iPhone is standing everybody on their heads, which is exactly how it should be. Maybe they'll actually come up with a few good ideas of their own if they increase the blood flow to their brains!
  • Reply 62 of 210
    .:r2thet.:r2thet Posts: 41member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mac31 View Post


    I thought I paid my monthly bill and plan costs to AT&T, not Apple.



    I love how people (pertaining to the iPhone) call it the "Apple tax" when once I walk out the door with the phone, Apple no longer gets my money (apart from the iTunes store, of course).



    While I understand that you are referring to the quote you cited above, I would have to say that you are quite delusional to think that there isn't an "Apple Tax" on the iPhone.



    Apple continues to make money on you, per the monthly contract that it gets a piece of, for at least 2 years. Maybe longer and we have no idea exactly how much. I would imagine they make more off the lifetime of the contract than they do off the $199/$299 for the device at the store.



    So to say that Apple has no place at the table when it comes to plan pricing is just silly!
  • Reply 63 of 210
    mcdaviesmcdavies Posts: 43member
    Are the data plans for the IPhone different than for other cell phone? Does anyone have a chart?
  • Reply 64 of 210
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Can you link to any proof of this?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by .:R2theT View Post


    Apple continues to make money on you, per the monthly contract that it gets a piece of, for at least 2 years. Maybe longer and we have no idea exactly how much. I would imagine they make more off the lifetime of the contract than they do off the $199/$299 for the device at the store.



  • Reply 65 of 210
    derevderev Posts: 64member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Capnbob View Post


    Don't hold your breath - 2011 at best - the Verizon 4G network will be worthless unless the phone has full CDMA/EVDO failover/fallback. Could happen if China negotiations go that way, but they don't appear to be.



    I agree with others that AT&T has made itself the villain. I just got a 3GS and have far more dropped calls than with the 2G iPhone. 3G data is pitiful in the city (SF), though pretty great down the Peninsula.



    The term "Wrecked" is from an analyst and what do analysts care about - stock prices (and maybe sometimes shareholders who buy through their firms). If you hold AT&T stock, you might agree that Apple has the potential to "wreck" the carrier. Remember, the whole strategy of the carriers is to add value (and revenue) to the wireless pipe - like Comcast tries with video/phone/broadband and new features e.g. on-demand/dvr/hd etc. If Apple is the one driving the added value and reaping the rewards, then the carriers get commoditized - no turn-by-turn monthly fees, no music download fees, no app revenue, etc. If and when we eventually get full network portability, there will be a race to the bottom in terms of prices for wireless network access. Look at base prices for broadband access in non-US deregulated markets, or basic mobile phone service in more competitive markets than the US - way cheaper than here where the big 2/3 wireless carriers and cable/telco cartels are still effectively price fixing.



    Still AT&T's problem, still mostly their fault...













    These guys are part of the outmoded form capitalism where the mantra is, "The Most Possible Profit At Any Cost!."
  • Reply 66 of 210
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    The iPhone unlimited data plan is the standard price for all AT&T smartphones. The difference is that unlimited data is mandatory for the iPhone, while its not for other smartphones.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by McDavies View Post


    Are the data plans for the IPhone different than for other cell phone? Does anyone have a chart?



  • Reply 67 of 210
    kolchakkolchak Posts: 1,398member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Let?s assume that the next iPhone supports GSM, CDMA, WCDMA, CDMA2000 and LTE all on the same chip. Who makes this chip? When will Apple get this chip to test? How much will it be? How large will it be? How power hungry will it be?



    All the chip design expertise Apple picked up with PA Semi might help a little with that. I'm sure engineers as smart as that know how to shut down parts of chips that aren't active at any given time. Virtually every carrier has announced plans to migrate to LTE. It's just a matter of time, and the laggers will lose ground to the leaders who adopt first.
  • Reply 68 of 210
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,953member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by OC4Theo View Post


    The truth is that US carriers like AT&T, Verizon and Sprint are very backward in technology compared to foreign companies. If it wasn't for Apple, we will still be dealing with Asian technology from 2-3years back. For years, the US government in other to protect STUPID Motorola, will not allow current phone offerings from Japan and Korea into the US. Since iPhone came, that barrier has been broken.



    Do you have a source for this protectionism regarding Motorola?



    Quote:

    Americans should be grateful for Apple. If AT&T severs its relationship with Apple, their business will decrease up to 50% within 2 years. AT&T needs Apple more than Apple needs AT&T. And the same goes for any carrier out there. Right now, Apple is in the control seat and will dictate how this game will be played for a long time to come.



    They're important subscribers, but somehow, I highly doubt half of ATT's money comes from iPhone subscribers.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by whatisgoingon View Post


    Hasn't resulted in price going down for data...in fact, AT&T raised the price last year.



    Silly. That was almost a pure cost shift so the customer can pay less up front but pay more in the long term. As stupid as it is, that's the way it is because there are so many customers like that. Also, the service speed was much faster if you can use 3G.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lightstriker View Post


    F--- Apple- get out of your niche and stop charging $69 for a terrible mouse.



    You know, a $10 Logitech mouse works just fine, I bought a couple from Newegg for that price a few days ago. Why are you so worried about the price of an Apple branded mouse?



    Also, It would be nice if you didn't use so much profanity.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


    You're making Bambi cry.



    ? The Disney of that era was a different company.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ozbone View Post


    If Apple has wrecked the cell phone business then they have done so by doing what the cell phone industry refuses to do ..... listen to it's customers. Let the wrecking continue !



    I don't think a phone can wreck an industry. Maybe wreck the status quo or a business model.



    The US cellular industry has been behaving like an oligopoly in some ways, if iPhone really is disrupting their status quo in a way they don't like, then I don't see the problem.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by a_greer View Post


    Put ATT and VZW all at sub 1 GHz, I guarantee, you will see coverage like never before on both networks, particularly inside buildings and such.



    It would probably help, but for buildings with metal siding or lots of other metal obstructions, the best solution is probably still installing cellular repeaters. One worked wonders for me.
  • Reply 69 of 210
    .:r2thet.:r2thet Posts: 41member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    Can you link to any proof of this?



    Proof of what.



    AT&T is subsidizing the iPhone on top of the $199/$299 that people pay for at the register. If you are unsure of this contact AT&T or buy an iPhone outright. $699 or some such price.



    What Apple makes per the contract, or per subsidy, is of course a matter of speculation. Which is why I typed " I imagine" vs. "here is the link to the yet unpublished, highly confidential AT&T/Apple iPhone contract".
  • Reply 70 of 210
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Yes AT&T does subsidize the initial cost of the phone the way every mobile carrier around the world does. We know the unlocked iPhone costs $500/$700, which means AT&T is paying $300 subsidy.



    You implied that Apple involved in revenue sharing and has the leverage to determine AT&T pricing. Apple has said they do not set AT&T service costs and AT&T has said they no longer share revenue. If you don't believe this true, I'm asking for proof.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by .:R2theT View Post


    Proof of what.



    AT&T is subsidizing the iPhone on top of the $199/$299 that people pay for at the register. If you are unsure of this contact AT&T or buy an iPhone outright. $699 or some such price.



    What Apple makes per the contract, or per subsidy, is of course a matter of speculation. Which is why I typed " I imagine" vs. "here is the link to the yet unpublished, highly confidential AT&T/Apple iPhone contract".



  • Reply 71 of 210
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    "Baloney" to this whole article. No one who wants an iPhone is going to let a few remaining issues get in their way. I went to an Apple Store just yesterday, and people are STILL LINING UP to buy the iPhone. Incredible! Fifteen minutes before the store opened, there were no less than 10 people wanting to purchase... that's staying power.



    Also, the overly dramatic "wrecking" the industry nonsense is just that. Hype.
  • Reply 72 of 210
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    I've seen no European tariff that allows you to freely roam all over Europe at a low cost.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post


    I use Finland because this is where I currently am. Remove Finland, insert EUROPE then continue to have the operators screw you over.



  • Reply 73 of 210
    paxmanpaxman Posts: 4,729member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by g3pro View Post


    Exactly. Apple is raping customers indirectly through the data plan sham.



    Raping? Just like we are all being water boarded by Cisco, and having our nails pulled out slowly by the telcos? Yeah... you're right, life really sucks. Its torture, really.
  • Reply 74 of 210
    brucepbrucep Posts: 2,823member
    Within minutes of this news article appearing >> 13 apps were created to help the iphone destroy the rest of the telecoms.



    9
  • Reply 75 of 210
    ajitmdajitmd Posts: 365member
    I think it would be nice to have an unlocked phone so that interested subscribers could buy and use them at will. Unfortunately, the average person would balk at paying the $500-700 price... even the carrier offered a less expensive data plan. It is those subsidies that allow Apple to rake in the $moolah.



    Anyway, LTE is not going to be a quickie for implementation. It will need an upgrade of the backbone to hi speed fiber including passive fiber switches, IP routers, etc. The transmission patters of this Orthogonal tech are different than either UMTS/WCDMA and CDMA/EVDO, so the tower spacing, sectors. cell size will have to be optimized. This will be what I call truck load and crane upgrades. The mobile phone chips are no easy challenge... including proper power control and optimization. The CPU and other functions of the iPhone will have to upgraded to handle the large data speeds without draining the batteries.... which has been a problem for current UMTS/WCDMA/3G.



    Carriers love to promise an early deployment, but it rarely happens quickly. The song and dance about UMTS/WCDMA started in the last decade and it was a slow painful process. Not to mention the knock down drag out lawsuits between the various parties like QCOM, Ericsson, Nokia, Broadcom, Texas Instruments, etc about Intellectual property rights, etc. Overall, any kind of new tech is a bottomless pit for money.



    The bird in hand for ATT and Apple is to upgrade the current network with hi speed fiber, routers, and HSPA. The phone itself would benefit from the increasing processing and power optimizing. Hopefully OLED once it becomes cheap may help. Higher battery capacity tech would be a plus.
  • Reply 76 of 210
    Before iPhone, telcos dictated what features cells phones they sold would offer, based on the telco's capablities and subject to the telco's pricing. Apple determines the iphone's features limited only by ATT's capability, and can offer new funtionality in software. To compete with iPhone, telcos now must provide much more features and data bandwidth than they did previously, and charge less for it.



    iPhone isn't wreaking the cell business, but is forcing it to evolve much faster and wring less profit from lesser phones than before. Smartphone sales are booming while sales of less capable handsets are leveling off or declining.



    AT&T's data pricing for the 3Gs is still less than competitors with crappier browsers.
  • Reply 77 of 210
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post


    Another year and I'll be with the iPhone pack. When Steve introduces the next generation iPhone (iPhone 4GL?) at next year's WWDC to work on Verizon's LTE network coming in the second half of 2010, I'm in. I actually hate both Verizon and AT&T, but Verizon is definitely the lesser of two evils.



    No motherf-ing way.

    Verizon is the worst ever. Great cell service, terrible everything else. They blindside you for every charge imaginable (and they have huge imaginations.)
  • Reply 78 of 210
    chris_cachris_ca Posts: 2,543member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    While many iPhone owners hail Apple as saving them from greedy cellular carriers



    Can't say I've ever heard that though Apple did save the consumer from the continuous line of crappy phones by cell manufacturers and has gotten companies off their butts as far as advancing their offerings.
  • Reply 79 of 210
    Verizon said no and Cingular said YES. It's as simple as that.

    Cingular took a leap of faith and agreed to work with Apple regardless of Apple's demands.

    Had the iPhone failed no carrier would be whining about the exclusive deal. AT&T deserves to enjoy the fruits of Cingular's risk.



    I have been with AT&T for over a decade. (AT&T -> Cingular -> at&t) They are one of the best, no nonsense carriers out there. They think very carefully before implementing new technologies. They are actually the most practical partner for Apple. They are nation wide & they use GSM
  • Reply 80 of 210
    The US wireless and Broadband markets are notoriously overpriced for what the consumer gets. They could have easily had MMS and tethering up and running without an issue. They don't want to lower costs to consumers nor do they want to improve the service or technology unless they have to. All of this keeps us overpaying for a mediocre product/service. I had the same opinion of Verizon when I was with them, who wanted everything on your phone purchased over their network at a fee. Kudos to Apple for redefining the product, user experience, and business model. Go ahead, complain, US wireless companies. Please, do tempt Apple to buy your asses or their own network in a second.
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