Everyday Joes buy PCs because they are familiar, offer more choice, and are a bit cheaper. Professionals buy PCs because they offer vastly more choice in hardware and software, and have an OS that doesn't treat you like an idiot and is highly productive (XP anyway, MS blew it with Vista by trying to emulate OSX). Virus problems, etc. are vastly overstated and other than being cool and part of the club, are the only talking point apple fans have to justify less choice, a clunky OS, and higher prices.
Everyday Joes buy PCs because they are familiar, offer more choice, and are a bit cheaper. Professionals buy PCs because they offer vastly more choice in hardware and software, and have an OS that doesn't treat you like an idiot and is highly productive (XP anyway, MS blew it with Vista by trying to emulate OSX). Virus problems, etc. are vastly overstated and other than being cool and part of the club, are the only talking point apple fans have to justify less choice, a clunky OS, and higher prices.
First, I kind of think your wife bought the PC out of spite. Sounds like she's sick of listening to your rantings about mac vs pc and wanted to get a pc to be rebellious in some manner (lol )
So you advocate doing something stupid to get back at someone giving good advice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster
Second, your story about the anti virus messing up the system sounds like horse poo. Sorry, not trying to start a fight here or anything, but if your IT guy had half a brain, updates like that would be controlled by his department, and if the update rendered the PC inoperable, they wouldn't push it out to the network.
I'm sorry but you're way off base here! I have heard countless examples of people at work having serious problems related to anti-virus software!
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster
Now, that said, if the update did cause an issue like that, being bitter towards the PC because of a third party's screw up is like me saying I hate ford because the supercharger I put on blew the engine up...
Bad example! It's like saying I hate Ford because they didn't do a good job designing their engine which tends to stall and someone put the wrong additive into the gas that helps the problem. If Windows was designed properly you wouldn't need anti-viruses.
Reminds me more of:" Why don't I just tell an unbelievable story to make us look good and them look bad. All the morons will fall for it. After all, they believed all the other BS over the years"
First, I kind of think your wife bought the PC out of spite. Sounds like she's sick of listening to your rantings about mac vs pc and wanted to get a pc to be rebellious in some manner (lol )
Second, your story about the anti virus messing up the system sounds like horse poo. Sorry, not trying to start a fight here or anything, but if your IT guy had half a brain, updates like that would be controlled by his department, and if the update rendered the PC inoperable, they wouldn't push it out to the network.
Now, that said, if the update did cause an issue like that, being bitter towards the PC because of a third party's screw up is like me saying I hate ford because the supercharger I put on blew the engine up...
The antivirus thing sounds perfectly believable to me. I've experienced it firsthand. I once had a PC a few years ago with Norton Antivirus running. One day it detected some virus infected files and quarantined them. I didn't notice anything wrong until I eventually rebooted and I could not even access Safe Mode. You know what files were quarantined, a.k.a. relocated to a "safe" sector of the hard drive? About 12 DLLs, the Registry and my MBR... Sh*t does happen lol. Needless to say, I'm a firm Mac believer now lol.
Microsoft's ads are aimed at different people than Apple's ads. They play to fundamentally different psychology. I don't think a customer who would respond to Microsoft's ads could be persuaded by Apple's ads or vice versa.
What a place to work - Balmer doing his monkey dance and Turner doing cart wheels down the corridors! Scary.
I wouldn't be surprised if Apple lawyers did call up MS but I am sure Turner did a lot of paraphrasing and interpretation for comic effect. And also - I am sure the ads are working. The ads are hardly cutting edge creatively nor in their execution but from an MS pov they do a very god job in imparting the message that MS gives excellent value and are good at everyday / creative tasks.
For me, the Im a Mac series has run its course. The smugness will backfire and I suspect there will be less to ridicule in Win7
Apple legal phone up to point out that the ads are based on out of date pricing. MS exec hypes up said phone call to 'prove' how effective the ads are and gain some brownie points at an MS love-fest. Ho hum.
My sociology teacher once said "The masses are morons." Ads like this, and their success might be proof. I don't mean to sound hateful or anything, but the ads are pretty dorky.
Your Sociology teacher is correct and all of you are proof of it.
You tell people they are stupid but you don't know how to quote properly? I think that tells us the real truth. I had to correct it for my reply.
Professionals buy PCs because they offer vastly more choice in hardware and software...
Exactly which professionals are these? Accountants maybe?
Quote:
Originally Posted by john55
... and have an OS that doesn't treat you like an idiot and is highly productive...
I suspect you haven't ever used Mac OS X, and have been drinking altogether too much cool aid...
Quote:
Originally Posted by john55
... Virus problems, etc. are vastly overstated and other than being cool and part of the club, are the only talking point apple fans have to justify less choice, a clunky OS, and higher prices.
If this turns out to be accurate, it makes Apple look like a bunch of crybabies.
You just don't understand how the power game is played.
The only way you can *force* a competitor to remove an ad is if you can prove it's a lie. If they then don't comply, they can be sued. By dropping the price and making the call they forced the advertisement off the air.
Far from being crybabies, it seems to me like Apple won that round
Not trying to start a fight here either but you obviously haven't worked for a big enough company if this hasn't happened to you - there's a big, big, reason IT departments are so big, there are so many problems. I had a new video card driver pushed onto my machine and it made the primary application I use for my job (ANSYS so we're not talking about some tiny program here...) crash randomly (and quite often I might add) and then the IT dept had no idea how to get the old driver back and it took (no lie) 4 days to get the proper driver installed...
And it is a PC thing - I've never even heard of anyone having that kind of a problem with a Mac...
Well, you're right, I don't work for a big company. Last I checked we were at around 400. What I've observed though is the IT department takes care of all updates. An update to the antivirus software that rendered a system inoperable is unlikely here since they test the updates before pushing them. Normally, the only thing that gets updated to begin with is the definition list. Something major, like a version upgrade to the software, is definitely tested properly before being pushed out.
The video card thing is peculiar. I've definitely heard of things like that, but Microsoft update will only suggest video drivers, never push them as a critical update. If someone in the IT department at your work pushed that on you, it's their fault for not doing their job properly. It's odd they would push a video driver on you if you weren't having performance issues to begin with. (Oh and 4 days to remove the drivers? Great googly moogly man, no wonder they made such a bonehead mistake.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by macnyc
So you advocate doing something stupid to get back at someone giving good advice?
Really? Is that what you got from my comment?
Quote:
Originally Posted by macnyc
I'm sorry but you're way off base here! I have heard countless examples of people at work having serious problems related to anti-virus software!
I don't think I am. I'm in more than an acceptable position to say that anti virus issues aren't common. I won't get into what I do, or my education, when I say it's rare for AV software to corrupt system files, you can trust me. I'm not saying it's impossible, just improbable. Especially in a professional work environment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macnyc
Bad example! It's like saying I hate Ford because they didn't do a good job designing their engine which tends to stall and someone put the wrong additive into the gas that helps the problem. If Windows was designed properly you wouldn't need anti-viruses.
Not only does your counter-example show a lack of general understanding in auto mechanics, but also in Windows and operating systems in general.
See, you're the type who believes that OSX is truly impenetrable. I'm not gonna get into another long drawn out "security through obscurity" argument, but trust me, OSX has security problems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdupuis77
The antivirus thing sounds perfectly believable to me. I've experienced it firsthand. I once had a PC a few years ago with Norton Antivirus running. One day it detected some virus infected files and quarantined them. I didn't notice anything wrong until I eventually rebooted and I could not even access Safe Mode. You know what files were quarantined, a.k.a. relocated to a "safe" sector of the hard drive? About 12 DLLs, the Registry and my MBR... Sh*t does happen lol. Needless to say, I'm a firm Mac believer now lol.
Ok, THAT example is totally believable. The virus writer knew your AV software would act that way, so they purposely wrote their virus to corrupt those files. Your definition list didn't contain the virus information, so your system wasn't immune. That sucks that happened to you. Attacking the master boot record is one of the oldest methods virus writers use. Now, what the guy in IT department would have done is restored those system files, and ran a scan from outside the drive. That's a nasty attack, but it's not something OSX is immune to either.
Your Sociology teacher is correct and all of you are proof of it. Apples arent any better than PC's, maybe worse. It is proven that Apples have just as many vulnerabilities as PCs. But Apple make-up less than 5% of the market share for computers, so who do you think hackers and virus programmers are going to focus on? 5% of the market or 95% of the market? Yeah, maybe they dropped the prices of their laptops, but that still doesnt reduce the price of replacement parts, or the cost to get an Apple serviced. That is why a business will never use all Apples. Anyways, if you haven't figured it out, Apple over-charges for sub-par products, then tells everyone you have to have one to be cool, ie iPod, the airbook, or MacBook Pro. For every single one of those, there is a cheaper version with better features and functions from a different company. People need to wake-up and learn to think for themselves.
Bad first post
You think this argument hasn't been presented around here? I really hope nobody responds to you to debate that because this will go on forever.
I think they've given like five actors "money" and thats for an ad?
Well, they showed 5 ads. We don't know how many people they gave money to but came up with footage they couldn't use.
Mary: "Well, I really want a Mac but Microsoft didn't give me quite enough money to get what I want. So, I'm going to buy this clunky, cheap laptop here at Best Buy and sell it on eBay. With the money I get for it, I can get the Mac I want for only a little bit of my own money."
I tend to doubt this story, if it is true expect an Apple lawyer to be on the street soon. Also, if this did happen, it would have been Apple head Legal Counsel making the call, and why did the COO not say who exactly he spoke with. Just to say it was some apple lawyer gives it no credibility.
Also, Jobs would not allow anyone to make this call and tell the competition they felt the ads were not accurate and to stop playing them. Apple never makes any public statements about strategy one way or another.
It just another marketing and PR attempt of MS to divert attention from the fact they are lost in the sea of competition.
Well, they showed 5 ads. We don't know how many people they gave money to but came up with footage they couldn't use.
Mary: "Well, I really want a Mac but Microsoft didn't give me quite enough money to get what I want. So, I'm going to buy this clunky, cheap laptop here at Best Buy and sell it on eBay. With the money I get for it, I can get the Mac I want for only a little bit of my own money."
Director: "Cut!"
ROFL! That's one of the first things I thought of when I saw these commercials. "I'll sell this on ebay for half of what I bought it for and buy a big bag of weed" CUT!
Comments
By the way? I just got a call from Microsoft Marketing department and they told me Steve Ballmer flue to Memphis to get a lobotomy.
Chimney sweeping is a very slow way to get from Redmond to Memphis.
Everyday Joes buy PCs because they are familiar, offer more choice, and are a bit cheaper. Professionals buy PCs because they offer vastly more choice in hardware and software, and have an OS that doesn't treat you like an idiot and is highly productive (XP anyway, MS blew it with Vista by trying to emulate OSX). Virus problems, etc. are vastly overstated and other than being cool and part of the club, are the only talking point apple fans have to justify less choice, a clunky OS, and higher prices.
Excellent first post
First, I kind of think your wife bought the PC out of spite. Sounds like she's sick of listening to your rantings about mac vs pc and wanted to get a pc to be rebellious in some manner (lol
So you advocate doing something stupid to get back at someone giving good advice?
Second, your story about the anti virus messing up the system sounds like horse poo. Sorry, not trying to start a fight here or anything, but if your IT guy had half a brain, updates like that would be controlled by his department, and if the update rendered the PC inoperable, they wouldn't push it out to the network.
I'm sorry but you're way off base here! I have heard countless examples of people at work having serious problems related to anti-virus software!
Now, that said, if the update did cause an issue like that, being bitter towards the PC because of a third party's screw up is like me saying I hate ford because the supercharger I put on blew the engine up...
Bad example! It's like saying I hate Ford because they didn't do a good job designing their engine which tends to stall and someone put the wrong additive into the gas that helps the problem. If Windows was designed properly you wouldn't need anti-viruses.
Reminds me of that famous Shakespeare line:
"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."
Reminds me more of:" Why don't I just tell an unbelievable story to make us look good and them look bad. All the morons will fall for it. After all, they believed all the other BS over the years"
First, I kind of think your wife bought the PC out of spite. Sounds like she's sick of listening to your rantings about mac vs pc and wanted to get a pc to be rebellious in some manner (lol
Second, your story about the anti virus messing up the system sounds like horse poo. Sorry, not trying to start a fight here or anything, but if your IT guy had half a brain, updates like that would be controlled by his department, and if the update rendered the PC inoperable, they wouldn't push it out to the network.
Now, that said, if the update did cause an issue like that, being bitter towards the PC because of a third party's screw up is like me saying I hate ford because the supercharger I put on blew the engine up...
The antivirus thing sounds perfectly believable to me. I've experienced it firsthand. I once had a PC a few years ago with Norton Antivirus running. One day it detected some virus infected files and quarantined them. I didn't notice anything wrong until I eventually rebooted and I could not even access Safe Mode. You know what files were quarantined, a.k.a. relocated to a "safe" sector of the hard drive? About 12 DLLs, the Registry and my MBR... Sh*t does happen lol. Needless to say, I'm a firm Mac believer now lol.
I wouldn't be surprised if Apple lawyers did call up MS but I am sure Turner did a lot of paraphrasing and interpretation for comic effect. And also - I am sure the ads are working. The ads are hardly cutting edge creatively nor in their execution but from an MS pov they do a very god job in imparting the message that MS gives excellent value and are good at everyday / creative tasks.
For me, the Im a Mac series has run its course. The smugness will backfire and I suspect there will be less to ridicule in Win7
Move along.
My sociology teacher once said "The masses are morons." Ads like this, and their success might be proof. I don't mean to sound hateful or anything, but the ads are pretty dorky.
Your Sociology teacher is correct and all of you are proof of it.
You tell people they are stupid but you don't know how to quote properly? I think that tells us the real truth. I had to correct it for my reply.
Also, how does a troll find this site?
Professionals buy PCs because they offer vastly more choice in hardware and software...
Exactly which professionals are these? Accountants maybe?
... and have an OS that doesn't treat you like an idiot and is highly productive...
I suspect you haven't ever used Mac OS X, and have been drinking altogether too much cool aid...
... Virus problems, etc. are vastly overstated and other than being cool and part of the club, are the only talking point apple fans have to justify less choice, a clunky OS, and higher prices.
... and watching too many laptop hunter ads.
If this turns out to be accurate, it makes Apple look like a bunch of crybabies.
You just don't understand how the power game is played.
The only way you can *force* a competitor to remove an ad is if you can prove it's a lie. If they then don't comply, they can be sued. By dropping the price and making the call they forced the advertisement off the air.
Far from being crybabies, it seems to me like Apple won that round
Not trying to start a fight here either but you obviously haven't worked for a big enough company if this hasn't happened to you - there's a big, big, reason IT departments are so big, there are so many problems. I had a new video card driver pushed onto my machine and it made the primary application I use for my job (ANSYS so we're not talking about some tiny program here...) crash randomly (and quite often I might add) and then the IT dept had no idea how to get the old driver back and it took (no lie) 4 days to get the proper driver installed...
And it is a PC thing - I've never even heard of anyone having that kind of a problem with a Mac...
Well, you're right, I don't work for a big company. Last I checked we were at around 400. What I've observed though is the IT department takes care of all updates. An update to the antivirus software that rendered a system inoperable is unlikely here since they test the updates before pushing them. Normally, the only thing that gets updated to begin with is the definition list. Something major, like a version upgrade to the software, is definitely tested properly before being pushed out.
The video card thing is peculiar. I've definitely heard of things like that, but Microsoft update will only suggest video drivers, never push them as a critical update. If someone in the IT department at your work pushed that on you, it's their fault for not doing their job properly. It's odd they would push a video driver on you if you weren't having performance issues to begin with. (Oh and 4 days to remove the drivers? Great googly moogly man, no wonder they made such a bonehead mistake.)
So you advocate doing something stupid to get back at someone giving good advice?
Really? Is that what you got from my comment?
I'm sorry but you're way off base here! I have heard countless examples of people at work having serious problems related to anti-virus software!
I don't think I am. I'm in more than an acceptable position to say that anti virus issues aren't common. I won't get into what I do, or my education, when I say it's rare for AV software to corrupt system files, you can trust me. I'm not saying it's impossible, just improbable. Especially in a professional work environment.
Bad example! It's like saying I hate Ford because they didn't do a good job designing their engine which tends to stall and someone put the wrong additive into the gas that helps the problem. If Windows was designed properly you wouldn't need anti-viruses.
Not only does your counter-example show a lack of general understanding in auto mechanics, but also in Windows and operating systems in general.
See, you're the type who believes that OSX is truly impenetrable. I'm not gonna get into another long drawn out "security through obscurity" argument, but trust me, OSX has security problems.
The antivirus thing sounds perfectly believable to me. I've experienced it firsthand. I once had a PC a few years ago with Norton Antivirus running. One day it detected some virus infected files and quarantined them. I didn't notice anything wrong until I eventually rebooted and I could not even access Safe Mode. You know what files were quarantined, a.k.a. relocated to a "safe" sector of the hard drive? About 12 DLLs, the Registry and my MBR... Sh*t does happen lol. Needless to say, I'm a firm Mac believer now lol.
Ok, THAT example is totally believable. The virus writer knew your AV software would act that way, so they purposely wrote their virus to corrupt those files. Your definition list didn't contain the virus information, so your system wasn't immune. That sucks that happened to you. Attacking the master boot record is one of the oldest methods virus writers use. Now, what the guy in IT department would have done is restored those system files, and ran a scan from outside the drive. That's a nasty attack, but it's not something OSX is immune to either.
Your Sociology teacher is correct and all of you are proof of it. Apples arent any better than PC's, maybe worse. It is proven that Apples have just as many vulnerabilities as PCs. But Apple make-up less than 5% of the market share for computers, so who do you think hackers and virus programmers are going to focus on? 5% of the market or 95% of the market? Yeah, maybe they dropped the prices of their laptops, but that still doesnt reduce the price of replacement parts, or the cost to get an Apple serviced. That is why a business will never use all Apples. Anyways, if you haven't figured it out, Apple over-charges for sub-par products, then tells everyone you have to have one to be cool, ie iPod, the airbook, or MacBook Pro. For every single one of those, there is a cheaper version with better features and functions from a different company. People need to wake-up and learn to think for themselves.
Bad first post
You think this argument hasn't been presented around here? I really hope nobody responds to you to debate that because this will go on forever.
I think they've given like five actors "money" and thats for an ad?
Well, they showed 5 ads. We don't know how many people they gave money to but came up with footage they couldn't use.
Mary: "Well, I really want a Mac but Microsoft didn't give me quite enough money to get what I want. So, I'm going to buy this clunky, cheap laptop here at Best Buy and sell it on eBay. With the money I get for it, I can get the Mac I want for only a little bit of my own money."
Director: "Cut!"
Also, Jobs would not allow anyone to make this call and tell the competition they felt the ads were not accurate and to stop playing them. Apple never makes any public statements about strategy one way or another.
It just another marketing and PR attempt of MS to divert attention from the fact they are lost in the sea of competition.
Well, they showed 5 ads. We don't know how many people they gave money to but came up with footage they couldn't use.
Mary: "Well, I really want a Mac but Microsoft didn't give me quite enough money to get what I want. So, I'm going to buy this clunky, cheap laptop here at Best Buy and sell it on eBay. With the money I get for it, I can get the Mac I want for only a little bit of my own money."
Director: "Cut!"
ROFL! That's one of the first things I thought of when I saw these commercials. "I'll sell this on ebay for half of what I bought it for and buy a big bag of weed" CUT!
Microsoft's chief operating officer claimed...
It was the greatest single phone call in the history that I've ever taken in business.
That's a sad statement for MS... must be really boring working over there.
By dropping the price and making the call they forced the advertisement off the air.
Why do you say they were forced off the air. I saw the "Giampaolo" ad twice last night.