This screams volumes about how scared MSFT is of Apple. Seriously, the COO of a company with $60+ billion in revenue and $215+ billion in market cap feels that the call from the legal department of a smaller competitor ".... was the greatest single phone call in the history (sic) that I've ever taken in business"!?
This is quite sad, really. They need to get a life.
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PS: I think the MSFT ads, although a little misleading, are totally fair game; and a bit funny, to boot. It would also seem that Apple's sales and market share are withstanding it well -- we'll see soon, when the quarterly numbers are announced.
It is proven that Apples have just as many vulnerabilities as PCs. But Apple make-up less than 5% of the market share for computers, so who do you think hackers and virus programmers are going to focus on? 5% of the market or 95% of the market?
Well stated...I'll be sticking with building my own PCs....Regardless of what any commercial says, it's the best way to go. And you can't blame an OS for problems without taking a look at who's using it...Microsoft has Every kind of user, many more things to be able to pick at, while Apple....not so much.
Bad example! It's like saying I hate Ford because they didn't do a good job designing their engine which tends to stall and someone put the wrong additive into the gas that helps the problem. If Windows was designed properly you wouldn't need anti-viruses.
I've found this last comment a bit out of reality. I think all things designed or made by humans have flaws small ones or big ones. My point here is that the Antivirus/Security Industry is a big one in technology, and the most popular, used or selled OS is Microsoft's, they have to deal with a big echosystem of hardware and software, they made a big contribution to personal computing, and for that and it's huuuuge market share is profitable to exploit it's vulnerabilities and make money from it. Why would i be interested in making a virus or exploit a MAC or Linux System, it's not that it can't be done, it's that there's no real, big money making on it, the one on top will always be the center of attacks or critics.
If Macs were properly designed this event Involving a MAC Owned in 10 seconds wouldn't have happened:
Or IBM - the one that is always looking for a way to not depend that much on it's alliance with M$ - saying in it's 2008 annual report that OSX it's the most vulnerable (page 44)
To me it's just that all the blackhats or code geniuses or malicious attackers are not interested on it!, they want to mess with THE big one, not with an underdog.
by the way i own a macbook with Leopard, Run Debian 5, and Windows 7 and they all serve the same "everyday user" purpose, email, web browsing, skype, documents, Music... so what's the deal. For my specialized uses i would go for Linux/M$. But that's me.
Well stated...I'll be sticking with building my own PCs....Regardless of what any commercial says, it's the best way to go. And you can't blame an OS for problems without taking a look at who's using it...Microsoft has Every kind of user, many more things to be able to pick at, while Apple....not so much.
stop replying to yourself and stick to one account
Unfortunately, this does seem plausible. Apple has the personality of its founder: brilliant, but at times erratic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic_Al
Microsoft's ads are aimed at different people than Apple's ads. They play to fundamentally different psychology. I don't think a customer who would respond to Microsoft's ads could be persuaded by Apple's ads or vice versa.
I wouldn't say that's true anymore. Right now I'd say there are actually more normal users buying Macs than Mac users. The family who was considering switching or switched but isn't quite comfortable, these could be very effective.
In this tough economy, regardless of how good a Mac is, if you need to put food on the table and are struggling to get by, I don't think a $1000+ Mac is such a wise decision when a PC for $500 could just as easily get you buy. Sure, it may break down, but let's not live in a fairy tale world here, people are hurting.
Now, I'm not saying that Apple isn't getting more sales than they have been in previous years; they are certainly still breaking records. But to believe that Macs are superior while ignoring that on average they cost more is the same as saying that a BMW is better because of the logo and not extra thousands you are paying for higher quality parts and service.
I too think it's strange that apple hasn't countered on the idea that m4 has to pay people to buy their product
I can see it now.... John Hodgman talking about how no one wants him...... then a young lady walks by and he takes out a fist full of money and is like "Young lady, I'll pay you to take me home with you"
I wouldn't say that's true anymore. Right now I'd say there are actually more normal users buying Macs than Mac users. The family who was considering switching or switched but isn't quite comfortable, these could be very effective.
I was speaking with my neighbor (a mother of 2) and she said she bought a mac, and i asked how she liked it and she sounded surprised that it was the same internet, same email, and it did the same things her old computer could do. It was really frightening actually lol.
Legal departments do NOT call each other with 'cease and desist'. An certainly without some legal basis. They send overnight letters. Silly to take an antedote in a speech as gospel truth.
Also...
Apple would have no motivation to stop the adds. Let M$ waste money marketing to the Walmart crowd. People as under-informed as the 'unscripted' individuals in their adds wouldn't be buying a mac in the first place. Microsoft is simply reinforcing a subset of buyers whose buying habits aren't changing in the first place.
'Value' is always a relative term. As the counter add points out.. what does 'value' mean when you are getting crap.
What proof does Mr. Turner put forward in this article? What the name of the person on Apples legal team is he quoting. By the way? I just got a call from Microsoft Marketing department and they told me Steve Ballmer flue to Memphis to get a lobotomy. http://forums.appleinsider.com/image...s/1smoking.gif
I presume the reason that Apple legal called is that the MS ads misrepresent the price of the macbook pros. If the ads say that you can't buy a MBP under $1,500 but the new price is $1,300, then the ads misrepresent the facts. This is why Apple legal requested MS to stop showing the false ads.
I agree 100%, after all the ads they have run with half trues in them. On the other hand, I highly doubt that they would do this unless they had legal ground to stand on. Dropping the price of a computer that is still much higher in initial cost is not what I would call legal grounds. And it makes no sense to have a 'laywer' call M$ on this if they weren't prepared to do something about it. Honestly, I'm not buying this....yet.
I believe people may feel Apple's ads tell only half-truths, because they've had a PC that's "worked just fine", without the problems highlighted by the Mac vs PC ads. But the truth, in my opinion, is that that only applies to half or less of the PCs out there that are in general use by consumers. In my 7 years working in the computer industry, more than half of the people that I've work with have had problems with their PCs, but even more obvious is that many people are afraid of their computers due to viruses and other malware. They settle into their little comfort zone and/or end up spending tons of time and money getting their computers doing what they really want. It's a sad life indeed, when a few extra dollars could give them a much better experience.
1)There's no way that phone call actually happened.
2) There's no way those ads are unscripted.
This guy is completely full of $hit. End of story. Common sense would tell anyone that's the only logical conclusion to make here.
Lawyers from one company don't call executives from other companies out of the blue and demand anything. As someone said earlier, they send letters, emails, things that can be tracked and easily proven.
And NOTHING on TV is unscripted. Not the "reality" shows that people love so much. Certainly not commercials. These people may not have been handed scripts, but they were certainly screened and coached before they went on camera. Again, that's just common sense. Why would you pay someone to potentially embarrass you?
If somebody loaded with cash says to you "I'll give you up to $1700 to buy the computer of your dreams", who on earth would really get one for $899? Wouldn't you get the best one you could for the money? Could there really be nothing better in the $900-$1700 range? I don't see how this could be honestly unscripted.
At least now we know why Apple has been having some trouble maintaining stock on the 13" MBP--they must all be going to SAG actors on Microsoft's dime.
Also, I completely agree that the idea of an Apple lawyer calling up the COO to "tell" him to stop running an ad is extremely improbable, unless they're already golf buddies or something.
Well stated...I'll be sticking with building my own PCs....Regardless of what any commercial says, it's the best way to go. And you can't blame an OS for problems without taking a look at who's using it...Microsoft has Every kind of user, many more things to be able to pick at, while Apple....not so much.
I presume the reason that Apple legal called is that the MS ads misrepresent the price of the macbook pros. If the ads say that you can't buy a MBP under $1,500 but the new price is $1,300, then the ads misrepresent the facts. This is why Apple legal requested MS to stop showing the false ads.
Apple legal did no such thing. Certainly not with a phone call. The guy is lying. Plain and simple.
If Apple wanted MS to stop showing the ads, it would have sent a cease and desist letter, like it does with every company it wishes to stop doing anything. Until this guy produces that letter, his story is simply not credible.
The phone call probably happened, but it has probably been misrepresented a little bit. Right now Microsoft is targeting Apple in their ads, planning on opening up stores next to Apple Stores and "laughing" at them in the media. I think it might be nervous laughter though.
That said, people are lemmings, and the Laptop Hunters ads are effective for that reason. I can see Apple taking offense if they make completely false statements such as "you can't buy a mac with such and such specs for under such and such a price", which could be the case now (I don't know, I don't watch much TV, so I don't see the ads very often).
Microsoft's ads are aimed at different people than Apple's ads. They play to fundamentally different psychology. I don't think a customer who would respond to Microsoft's ads could be persuaded by Apple's ads or vice versa.
Not so much at different people, but at different parts of the same person's brain. Microsoft's ads are targeting fear. Apple's ads target desire. We all carry both in our heads, so it's a question of which impulse wins out at any given time. With the economic situation we are in now, Microsoft is banking on fear trumping desire. They may even be right in the short term, but over the long haul, desire would seem to be the more powerful factor motivating retail sales. So I think Microsoft will be searching around for another approach pretty soon. Apple OTOH will not have to change their approach.
Comments
This is quite sad, really. They need to get a life.
--
PS: I think the MSFT ads, although a little misleading, are totally fair game; and a bit funny, to boot. It would also seem that Apple's sales and market share are withstanding it well -- we'll see soon, when the quarterly numbers are announced.
It is proven that Apples have just as many vulnerabilities as PCs. But Apple make-up less than 5% of the market share for computers, so who do you think hackers and virus programmers are going to focus on? 5% of the market or 95% of the market?
Well stated...I'll be sticking with building my own PCs....Regardless of what any commercial says, it's the best way to go. And you can't blame an OS for problems without taking a look at who's using it...Microsoft has Every kind of user, many more things to be able to pick at, while Apple....not so much.
In my opinion, one of the few and relevant lawsuits by Apple's legal team is the one against Psystar.
Apple's numbers had better be good. O/w, hang on for the ride.....
Bad example! It's like saying I hate Ford because they didn't do a good job designing their engine which tends to stall and someone put the wrong additive into the gas that helps the problem. If Windows was designed properly you wouldn't need anti-viruses.
I've found this last comment a bit out of reality. I think all things designed or made by humans have flaws small ones or big ones. My point here is that the Antivirus/Security Industry is a big one in technology, and the most popular, used or selled OS is Microsoft's, they have to deal with a big echosystem of hardware and software, they made a big contribution to personal computing, and for that and it's huuuuge market share is profitable to exploit it's vulnerabilities and make money from it. Why would i be interested in making a virus or exploit a MAC or Linux System, it's not that it can't be done, it's that there's no real, big money making on it, the one on top will always be the center of attacks or critics.
If Macs were properly designed this event Involving a MAC Owned in 10 seconds wouldn't have happened:
http://www.itwire.com/content/view/23941/53/
Or IBM - the one that is always looking for a way to not depend that much on it's alliance with M$ - saying in it's 2008 annual report that OSX it's the most vulnerable (page 44)
http://www-935.ibm.com/services/us/i...ual-report.pdf
To me it's just that all the blackhats or code geniuses or malicious attackers are not interested on it!, they want to mess with THE big one, not with an underdog.
by the way i own a macbook with Leopard, Run Debian 5, and Windows 7 and they all serve the same "everyday user" purpose, email, web browsing, skype, documents, Music... so what's the deal. For my specialized uses i would go for Linux/M$. But that's me.
Cheers
Well stated...I'll be sticking with building my own PCs....Regardless of what any commercial says, it's the best way to go. And you can't blame an OS for problems without taking a look at who's using it...Microsoft has Every kind of user, many more things to be able to pick at, while Apple....not so much.
stop replying to yourself and stick to one account
Microsoft's ads are aimed at different people than Apple's ads. They play to fundamentally different psychology. I don't think a customer who would respond to Microsoft's ads could be persuaded by Apple's ads or vice versa.
I wouldn't say that's true anymore. Right now I'd say there are actually more normal users buying Macs than Mac users. The family who was considering switching or switched but isn't quite comfortable, these could be very effective.
Now, I'm not saying that Apple isn't getting more sales than they have been in previous years; they are certainly still breaking records. But to believe that Macs are superior while ignoring that on average they cost more is the same as saying that a BMW is better because of the logo and not extra thousands you are paying for higher quality parts and service.
I too think it's strange that apple hasn't countered on the idea that m4 has to pay people to buy their product
I can see it now.... John Hodgman talking about how no one wants him...... then a young lady walks by and he takes out a fist full of money and is like "Young lady, I'll pay you to take me home with you"
I wouldn't say that's true anymore. Right now I'd say there are actually more normal users buying Macs than Mac users. The family who was considering switching or switched but isn't quite comfortable, these could be very effective.
I was speaking with my neighbor (a mother of 2) and she said she bought a mac, and i asked how she liked it and she sounded surprised that it was the same internet, same email, and it did the same things her old computer could do. It was really frightening actually lol.
Also...
Apple would have no motivation to stop the adds. Let M$ waste money marketing to the Walmart crowd. People as under-informed as the 'unscripted' individuals in their adds wouldn't be buying a mac in the first place. Microsoft is simply reinforcing a subset of buyers whose buying habits aren't changing in the first place.
'Value' is always a relative term. As the counter add points out.. what does 'value' mean when you are getting crap.
What proof does Mr. Turner put forward in this article? What the name of the person on Apples legal team is he quoting. By the way? I just got a call from Microsoft Marketing department and they told me Steve Ballmer flue to Memphis to get a lobotomy. http://forums.appleinsider.com/image...s/1smoking.gif
what good is another lobotomy?
I agree 100%, after all the ads they have run with half trues in them. On the other hand, I highly doubt that they would do this unless they had legal ground to stand on. Dropping the price of a computer that is still much higher in initial cost is not what I would call legal grounds. And it makes no sense to have a 'laywer' call M$ on this if they weren't prepared to do something about it. Honestly, I'm not buying this....yet.
I believe people may feel Apple's ads tell only half-truths, because they've had a PC that's "worked just fine", without the problems highlighted by the Mac vs PC ads. But the truth, in my opinion, is that that only applies to half or less of the PCs out there that are in general use by consumers. In my 7 years working in the computer industry, more than half of the people that I've work with have had problems with their PCs, but even more obvious is that many people are afraid of their computers due to viruses and other malware. They settle into their little comfort zone and/or end up spending tons of time and money getting their computers doing what they really want. It's a sad life indeed, when a few extra dollars could give them a much better experience.
2) There's no way those ads are unscripted.
This guy is completely full of $hit. End of story. Common sense would tell anyone that's the only logical conclusion to make here.
Lawyers from one company don't call executives from other companies out of the blue and demand anything. As someone said earlier, they send letters, emails, things that can be tracked and easily proven.
And NOTHING on TV is unscripted. Not the "reality" shows that people love so much. Certainly not commercials. These people may not have been handed scripts, but they were certainly screened and coached before they went on camera. Again, that's just common sense. Why would you pay someone to potentially embarrass you?
At least now we know why Apple has been having some trouble maintaining stock on the 13" MBP--they must all be going to SAG actors on Microsoft's dime.
Also, I completely agree that the idea of an Apple lawyer calling up the COO to "tell" him to stop running an ad is extremely improbable, unless they're already golf buddies or something.
Well stated...I'll be sticking with building my own PCs....Regardless of what any commercial says, it's the best way to go. And you can't blame an OS for problems without taking a look at who's using it...Microsoft has Every kind of user, many more things to be able to pick at, while Apple....not so much.
wow, it's first-post-arama out here today!
I presume the reason that Apple legal called is that the MS ads misrepresent the price of the macbook pros. If the ads say that you can't buy a MBP under $1,500 but the new price is $1,300, then the ads misrepresent the facts. This is why Apple legal requested MS to stop showing the false ads.
Apple legal did no such thing. Certainly not with a phone call. The guy is lying. Plain and simple.
If Apple wanted MS to stop showing the ads, it would have sent a cease and desist letter, like it does with every company it wishes to stop doing anything. Until this guy produces that letter, his story is simply not credible.
That said, people are lemmings, and the Laptop Hunters ads are effective for that reason. I can see Apple taking offense if they make completely false statements such as "you can't buy a mac with such and such specs for under such and such a price", which could be the case now (I don't know, I don't watch much TV, so I don't see the ads very often).
Microsoft's ads are aimed at different people than Apple's ads. They play to fundamentally different psychology. I don't think a customer who would respond to Microsoft's ads could be persuaded by Apple's ads or vice versa.
Not so much at different people, but at different parts of the same person's brain. Microsoft's ads are targeting fear. Apple's ads target desire. We all carry both in our heads, so it's a question of which impulse wins out at any given time. With the economic situation we are in now, Microsoft is banking on fear trumping desire. They may even be right in the short term, but over the long haul, desire would seem to be the more powerful factor motivating retail sales. So I think Microsoft will be searching around for another approach pretty soon. Apple OTOH will not have to change their approach.