As AT&T gains on Verizon, CEO says exclusive iPhone fleeting

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 63
    jerseymacjerseymac Posts: 408member
    Quote: Can't wait to have a choice. The exclusivity has lasted too long already.



    Amen! I hope AT&T doesn't get to provide the service on the rumored tablet as well.
  • Reply 22 of 63
    jerseymacjerseymac Posts: 408member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by crees! View Post


    Actually you do have a choice and that's to buy the iPhone or not buy it.



    I want another choice! A better one!
  • Reply 23 of 63
    btitusjrbtitusjr Posts: 53member
    Who cares. Verizon SUCKS. Up here in PA Verison gets crap for service when I have full coverage. I already got a iphone and love everything about it. Even AT&T. I hope it never goes to Verizon so all you babys can cry cry cry
  • Reply 24 of 63
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,185member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stonefree View Post




    So if customer service is a high priority, go Verizon!



    I have no idea why people keep saying this: honestly (and I mean that!), my experience with ATT customer service has been quite good. Certainly better than Verizon (which I was happy to give up when the original iPhone came out).
  • Reply 25 of 63
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,185member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hudson1 View Post


    ..... if your VerizonWireless iPhone doesn't have CDMA, it aint going to work everywhere you expect it to.



    Excellent observation - it would need to have the functionality just like the current seamless switch to 2G from 3G when needed.
  • Reply 26 of 63
    chronsterchronster Posts: 1,894member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cameronj View Post


    Who would want to invest in such a money losing company?



    Hmm, you're right. I just described something nobody would ever buy didn't I.



    Scary.
  • Reply 27 of 63
    cameronjcameronj Posts: 2,357member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chronster View Post


    Hmm, you're right. I just described something nobody would ever buy didn't I.



    Scary.



    Oh somebody would buy it, but to be all things to all people, their prices would be too high to get enough customers to make any money. Unfortunately, there's no faking these things - customer service people cost money, infrastructure costs money, cool phones cost money. Those things have to be paid for by somebody. Don't believe anyone promising more services for less money.



    For a second there I started talking about health care... whoa...
  • Reply 28 of 63
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    I have no idea why people keep saying this: honestly (and I mean that!), my experience with ATT customer service has been quite good. Certainly better than Verizon (which I was happy to give up when the original iPhone came out).



    Frankly, I've not had to deal with AT&T Customer service, so I have no idea what is so bad about them. I love rollover minutes though.
  • Reply 29 of 63
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by roehlstation View Post


    Frankly, I've not had to deal with AT&T Customer service, so I have no idea what is so bad about them. I love rollover minutes though.



    Yah, rollover minutes are awesome. They do expire but if they do you really should think about downgrading to a lower plan. Thus far, I haven't had to worry about time at all despite not having an unlimited plan.
  • Reply 30 of 63
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 20,185member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cameronj View Post


    For a second there I started talking about health care... whoa...



    Not to divert this off-topic, but you should know that major parts of the world provide better (yes better... no actually, make that far better) health care than the US, at a fraction of the cost.



    http://www.who.int/whr/2000/media_ce.../en/index.html





    (Oh, I know that some people disagree with these assessments..... if you don't like their methodology, you can look at any indicator of choice here: http://www.who.int/whosis/whostat/2008/en/index.html)
  • Reply 31 of 63
    bigpicsbigpics Posts: 1,397member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hudson1 View Post


    OK, I'm not a mobile phone network expert. However, I would think that any mobile phone marketed by VerizonWireless would have to have CDMA capability for quite a while unless they have a plan to make 4G ubiquitous overnight. Even then, they have agreements for different systems to carry their calls in some locations and they would have to have 4G installed at the same time, too. So if your VerizonWireless iPhone doesn't have CDMA, it aint going to work everywhere you expect it to.



    Yeah, that's basically what I (a non-engineer/scientist geek) was thinking.



    3G + 4G isn't going to be that ubiquitous for years to come.



    So sans an iPhone with a new GSM+CDMA chipset (a Verizon only model likely, but both to be able to work overseas), this Verizon speculation is all just talk out of our hats.



    But, given the progress from single transistors to whole computers on a chip since the '60's, how hard could dual cell capability actually be?



    Anyone have a learned answer?
  • Reply 32 of 63
    Around here, Verizon has almost 100% market share.........everyone I know has verizon, so i'd be first in line to get a new iphone if Verizon ever gets it.
  • Reply 33 of 63
    noirdesirnoirdesir Posts: 1,027member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PaperMacWriter View Post


    I expect to see it on T-Mobile. I think its likely enough, especialy if they get the 3G in England. It only makes sense to me to use as few carriers worldwide, you can get better deals. Or do I not understand the cell market



    T-Mobile is the mobile arm of Deutsche Telekom, the successor to the German state-run telephone office. T-mobile has bought up mobile telekom providers in a number of countries. It carries the iPhone exclusively in its home market and also in Austria (and maybe elsewhere in eastern Europe).

    T-mobile US might get the iPhone since it has the only other significant GSM/UTMS-based network in the US, albeit on a frequency used in very few other countries. Apple would have to release a new iPhone which supports additional frequencies (which is technically not very difficult), for T-Mobile US to be able to carry it.

    T-mobile UK is rumored to get the 8 GB iPhone 3G (not the 3GS), since the contracts for this might run out earlier (possibly in November because the iPhone was introduced in the UK in November).
  • Reply 34 of 63
    mark2005mark2005 Posts: 1,158member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gandalf the Semi-Coherent View Post


    I'm not as well-versed as others are about the nature of Verizon's network, and whether the iPhone would work (and work well) on its network currently. I'd appreciate anyone who could enlighten me on this point.



    Also, when is the AT&T contract set to expire? 2010?



    Finally, I agree with the premise of this article. I think AT&T service sucks, and it's only the iPhone thats keeping me with them. If the iPhone went to Verizon, I'd jump there instantly.



    GTSC



    I've been on AT&T since Feb and have had exactly one dropped call. I've had an iPhone for 20 days with no dropped calls, and on 3G almost all the time. During that time, I've mostly been in the western suburbs of Boston, or in San Diego.



    Some believe that Verizon's network would also falter under the weight of iPhone's data usage. I have no idea whether it will or not, and I haven't invested a penny in AT&T (other than paying the bills), but AT&T is making the argument that because of the stress created by iPhone, AT&T is building up capacity in their cell and backhaul network much faster than Verizon. (iPhone users can't see it right now because the network's still swamped by too many iPhones using lots of data.) When the transition to LTE occurs in 2011, AT&T users will have a smoother user experience because in those areas yet to get LTE, users will have the faster 7.2Mbps (or even 14.4Mbps) HSDPA (while Verizon will experience a larger dropoff from LTE to EVDO), and AT&T's backhaul infrastructure will have previous experience with the stress of huge data usage.



    Does this argument hold water? Is there anyone closer to the situation able to chime in?
  • Reply 35 of 63
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,949member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by applestockholder View Post


    While AT&T has many issues, it is very nice to be able to travel and use the GSM networks all over the world seamlessly (if you can afford it )

    When I was with Sprint years ago on CDMA, there seemed to be more countries with problems due to lack of CDMA. Verizon, from what I understand would have the same issue = CDMA.

    So while AT&T is not very good, there are reasons why it is worth putting up with, at least for some of us...



    There are a lot of multi-standard radio chips. Also, given the cost of roaming, you may be better off getting a temporary phone in-country. With some users, it's not hard to blow past your 100MB limit for roaming before you pay $5 a MB.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wealthychef View Post


    Gosh, you mean consumers would benefit if they had a choice instead of having to use one carrier or another? What a concept, that Apple does not determine my choice of phone carrier? The idea of lock-in is very annoying and almost illegal.



    I think it would be illegal if you couldn't get other phones instead and you couldn't get other wireless providers. Short of that, it's tough to get sympathy.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by crees! View Post


    Actually you do have a choice and that's to buy the iPhone or not buy it.



    I think the point is more choices are generally (not always, but usually) better for the consumer than fewer.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by btitusjr View Post


    Who cares. Verizon SUCKS. Up here in PA Verison gets crap for service when I have full coverage. I already got a iphone and love everything about it. Even AT&T. I hope it never goes to Verizon so all you babys can cry cry cry



    Every carrier has holes in their coverage, as far as I understand, AT&T isn't available in an entire state.
  • Reply 36 of 63
    samabsamab Posts: 1,953member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mark2005 View Post


    When the transition to LTE occurs in 2011, AT&T users will have a smoother user experience because in those areas yet to get LTE, users will have the faster 7.2Mbps (or even 14.4Mbps) HSDPA (while Verizon will experience a larger dropoff from LTE to EVDO), and AT&T's backhaul infrastructure will have previous experience with the stress of huge data usage.



    Does this argument hold water? Is there anyone closer to the situation able to chime in?



    "Paper spec" speed claims mean nothing.



    We already seen Verizon's 3.1 mbps EV-DO rev A network being actually faster in real life than AT&T's 3.6 mbps HSDPA network.



    You are also limited by the handset and the carrier's network set-up --- plenty of European carriers have 7.2 mbps HSDPA networks but their iphone speed is slower than AT&T's 3.6 mbps HSDPA network.
  • Reply 37 of 63
    al_bundyal_bundy Posts: 1,525member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by applestockholder View Post


    While AT&T has many issues, it is very nice to be able to travel and use the GSM networks all over the world seamlessly (if you can afford it )

    When I was with Sprint years ago on CDMA, there seemed to be more countries with problems due to lack of CDMA. Verizon, from what I understand would have the same issue = CDMA.

    So while AT&T is not very good, there are reasons why it is worth putting up with, at least for some of us...







    Some blackberries will work on CDMA and gsm. You have to design the phone with a radio that operates on all frequencies
  • Reply 38 of 63
    will verizon plz subsidize my $1000 Mac Pro with an exclusive 4G 3 year broadband contract?
  • Reply 39 of 63
    ajitmdajitmd Posts: 365member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bigpics View Post


    Technically I'm wondering if it's mostly all about when Verizon rolls out 4G and how extensively - making the CDMA/GSM connection situation moot?



    And first?!? (That would be a first)



    The roaming fees charged by ATT + partners when roaming are obscene, to say the least. In EU they charge anywhere from $1+/Minute. Go to Asia and Africa and the rate goes to $1.40+. Data is expensive too. Unless somebody is paying the bill, one is better off getting a local GSM phone - used Nokia goes for $30-50. Prepaid local minutes in many places go for 5 cents/min, especially in India. Want to call the US... that is cheap too, especially with Skype, Fring, etc. However, the majority of users seldom leave the US.



    However, it is likely that Apple chose ATT for many reasons besides their GSM network... including control of the phone.
  • Reply 40 of 63
    ajitmdajitmd Posts: 365member
    One of the reasons that the ATT network performs so poorly in many places is because it uses the UMTS version of CDMA, also called WCMDA that is asynch. It uses 5 MHz channels to transmit both data and voice. So, within a cell or sector, if there are people using a lot of data, there is not enough capacity to transmit voice. So calls get dropped, or no coverage.



    VZ uses the CDMA/EVDO. Basically voice goes on separate 1.25 MHz channels. Data goes, mostly, on the DO 1.25 MHz channels. So a lot of data usage will slow the data rate like in cable network in a neighborhood in the evening. However, voice will be unaffected by data usage.



    QCOM, the original implementer of CDMA has patents on UMTS/WCDMA. They do make chip sets that work on multiple standards like CDMA, GSM, UMTS, etc. The just cost a low of money and the implementation costs too with more complex power amps and antenna design.



    The only reason we got the UMTS/WCDMA is because Nokia and Ericsson wanted to dilute QCOM patents... and came with a solution where everybody got to thrown their patents in to reduce QCOM typical 5.5% royalties. Well, it barely works well with voice... drains too much battery due to its wide rake receivers, asynch tech. Hand-offs are a problem too.



    As any wireless network engineer will tell, implementing any new tech like 4G that is a based on OFMD will be quite complex. Antenna spacing will be different. New fiber backbone or major upgrades will be needed along with routers, and switches to hand the traffic. At network is as good as the weakest link. Handset chipsets will have to developed, tested, extensively... then sampled. Manufacturers go through a complex approval process as well. The network upgrades is what is called "truck load upgrades". Costs $Billions for a nationwide foot print.



    I would not be holding my breath hoping ATT or anybody else will have a nation wide working 4G real network going next year. Making a CDMA/EVDO iPhone is no big deal. I think it all depends if VZ is willing to give the control that Apple wants. Without that control, it may be better for Apple to push ATT to upgrade the 3G capacity.
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