Interesting. I've been poking around the font panel in a few of my apps (somehow I actually use more Cocoa apps than Carbon ones for a variety of reasons) and I wanted to make a note of a few things:
1. you don't need to activate the Character Panel from the menubar keyboard icon. In the fonts panel, it's listed as "Show Characters" under the Extras pop-up menu at the bottom of the panel.
2. You don't have to drag just under the panel's title bar to see the font preview. It's also accessible from the Extras menu in the panel as "Show Preview." Obviously, if a font is too big to display in the preview area, you can just slide it out some more.
3. In the preview pane, you can type over the default font name to show any text previewed in that font. You can copy & paste text into the area also.
As an aside, do fonts need to be activated or deactivated in OS X? Since X theoretically has no limit on the number of fonts installed (though it wouldn't surprise me if many ported 9 apps have an arbitrary limit), would you need to go through this? I have a couple hundred TrueType and PS fonts when you break them down to their individual typefaces, but I don't have the 3000+ that some people here have. I don't have any problems loading them from the font panel, but I don't know if a huge number would slow thing down. I thought Os X only loads fonts as they are requested, and unloads them when not used too. If I'm right about that, a lot of the functionality of ATM and similar products isn't needed. If I'm wrong, then it's something Apple should seriously consider.
BTW, you can group fonts into sub-folders of the various Fonts folders in the system and the font panel will see all of them. You can at least make groups (aka, categories) of fonts from within the font panel to, though you can't make hierarchical groupings.
I think one of the early posts mentioned that you can delete these groups without warning. the good news is that like deleting playlists in iTunes, this won't delete the fonts. as a matter of fact, one possible shortcoming of the font panel is that you can't actually remove fonts from it!
I was just snooping around to rediscover the OS X font panel and got to checking it against my Font Reserve and started getting grumbly about how ridiculous it is that there's no clean solution to font management built into the OS.
More maddening is the fact that there's nothing like WYSIWYG from Action Utilities built into the OS or into the Adobe apps. If I want to find a typeface for a certain project I reach over and pick up a printout I've made of my collection. This is --exactly-- the kind of thing that should be SOOOOO much more refined than it's been in the past.
An Apple app for handling fonts that works like iTunes would be pretty darned spiffy. I'm underwhelmed at how little has changed for the OS X version of Font Reserve, managing the Fonts Browser is awkward and irritiating.
I've been embarassed at how lame it is to work with fonts in OS X.
I think BuonRotto is pointing out (a mite cheekily) the value of a set of Apple-supplied frameworks, with global OS reach, i.e. ATSUI and the Font Panel, which are now potentially accessible from all apps (and present in all Cocoa ones), instead of, say, an iApp solution such as "iType".
And -- for font management, anyway -- he's 100% kee-rect. I'm definitely looking forward further enhancements in both speed and use in frameworks (and parity across both APIs) in the next OS X rev -- rather than a pretty, Apple-born, brushed metal font manager.
<strong>rumour has it Adobe will release an OS X version of ATM deluxe...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Where and when did you hear this? Adobe has said they WON'T release ATM or ATR for OS X. This has been mentioned a lot in the last couple years on the Mac forums. Do you know something that I don't? Please share your recon! :0)
Frameworks are OS X's answer to OpenDoc. Image Capture, Address Book, are Rendezvous are all frameworks that any application can tap into. It's sort of like Cocoa objects on steroids in concept.
Frameworks are another NeXT technology. They wrap the dynamic libraries, headers, documentation, and whatnot for an API subsystem into one nicely manageable bundle with versioning control, intelligent updating, etc, etc.
And frankly, the frameworks we have now are pretty dumbed down in comparison to what the NeXT folks were used to. Ah well.
But anywho, yeah, Apple providing a framework for font management (or just augmenting the existing font frameworks) would be sweet. The app gets the new functionality for zero effort.
That was the nice thing about the Jaguar upgrade, and having so many Cocoa apps. Free upgrades for those apps, even third-party ones.
I was a friad to assume that frameworks and the Cocoa API had much to do with one another. I get the concept, but I have no idea how this stuff really works.
Okay, now I understand Frameworks and truly dig the idea of often-used tools being shared by any and all applications. When do you suppose that Apple will provide a means for OS X users to have previews of their fonts on the fly?
Unless I misunderstand you, don't we have that now with the font preview pane in the font panel? Besides, if you have text selected already, it will change to whatever font you click on in the font panel immediately. (Obviously, there are pros and cons to that.)
What I refer to is something like Action Utilities WYSIWYG, which displays your fonts as they appear inside your font menu. If you do a lot of graphic design it's really important for you to be able to SEE your fonts AS you're looking for them instead of going back and tossing different fonts onto selected text. It's an important, time-saving step. I suppose I need to see if there's an OS X solution for this need.....
<strong>What I refer to is something like Action Utilities WYSIWYG, which displays your fonts as they appear inside your font menu...I suppose I need to see if there's an OS X solution for this need.....</strong><hr></blockquote>
the font panel does this, either with font names:
or with your own sample text:
Note that font size and weight is reflected immediately as well. The panel has some serious rough edges right now but it's a great start and the only way is up.
Nope, you guys don't get it...let me illustrate with an example of how WYSIWYG worked in OS 9.x:
I'm working in Adobe Illustrator, banging away at a logo that has to be shot off to the vinyl shop for something that has to work later in the day. I know that I want to use a blackletter font for this logo, but I have so many different fonts that I can't remember their names....and in fact, I shouldn't be expected to remember their names. Because WYSIWYG is running, any time that I click on Illustrator's popup typeface menu I get to see all of my active fonts represented in their respective styles...ON THE FLY.
This is a big deal when you're looking for the right font RIGHT AWAY.
Go back and look at Apple's font app. You have no idea what the typeface "Zapfino" looks like unless you navigate over to it and highlight it. To do this you have to switch from Illustrator and fire up a Cocoa app so you can gain access to the font panel, then you have to slog through the menu interface.
Now, I also run Font Reserve, but it's guilty of the same interface problem in that there's no grand, all-encompassing quick view of your entire font library.
There have been so many times that I've been looking for the "right" font only to discover another font that I hadn't considered. Every time this has happened it's been because I've had immediate heads-up exposure to my active fonts.
That utility (WYSIWYG) worked for EVERY application's font menu. It was fantastic and I didn't realize how much I missed it. I went to <a href="http://www.poweronsoftware.com"; target="_blank">Action Utilities</a> website to see if that app had been ported to OS X. It hasn't been, and the decision on that port is still pending.
Do you guys understand what I'm talking about now?
I see what you mean now. You can sort of use the font panel (not an app) like this, though you have to click the font name to see what it looks like. From your perspective, you have to fire up an outside Cocoa app because Illustrator can't bring up the font panel itself. When I use a Cocoa app like Create, I can pop up the font panel at any time without leaving the app and click through the font names to see what they look like. The only difference is that you want those font names in their typefaces.
Actually, any favorite fonts you save in the fonts panel will display itself in its typeface. Not quite what you're looking for, but a little closer.
Comments
1. you don't need to activate the Character Panel from the menubar keyboard icon. In the fonts panel, it's listed as "Show Characters" under the Extras pop-up menu at the bottom of the panel.
2. You don't have to drag just under the panel's title bar to see the font preview. It's also accessible from the Extras menu in the panel as "Show Preview." Obviously, if a font is too big to display in the preview area, you can just slide it out some more.
3. In the preview pane, you can type over the default font name to show any text previewed in that font. You can copy & paste text into the area also.
As an aside, do fonts need to be activated or deactivated in OS X? Since X theoretically has no limit on the number of fonts installed (though it wouldn't surprise me if many ported 9 apps have an arbitrary limit), would you need to go through this? I have a couple hundred TrueType and PS fonts when you break them down to their individual typefaces, but I don't have the 3000+ that some people here have. I don't have any problems loading them from the font panel, but I don't know if a huge number would slow thing down. I thought Os X only loads fonts as they are requested, and unloads them when not used too. If I'm right about that, a lot of the functionality of ATM and similar products isn't needed. If I'm wrong, then it's something Apple should seriously consider.
BTW, you can group fonts into sub-folders of the various Fonts folders in the system and the font panel will see all of them. You can at least make groups (aka, categories) of fonts from within the font panel to, though you can't make hierarchical groupings.
I think one of the early posts mentioned that you can delete these groups without warning. the good news is that like deleting playlists in iTunes, this won't delete the fonts. as a matter of fact, one possible shortcoming of the font panel is that you can't actually remove fonts from it!
More maddening is the fact that there's nothing like WYSIWYG from Action Utilities built into the OS or into the Adobe apps. If I want to find a typeface for a certain project I reach over and pick up a printout I've made of my collection. This is --exactly-- the kind of thing that should be SOOOOO much more refined than it's been in the past.
An Apple app for handling fonts that works like iTunes would be pretty darned spiffy. I'm underwhelmed at how little has changed for the OS X version of Font Reserve, managing the Fonts Browser is awkward and irritiating.
I've been embarassed at how lame it is to work with fonts in OS X.
Whuzzat?
<strong>Frameworks?!
Whuzzat?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think BuonRotto is pointing out (a mite cheekily) the value of a set of Apple-supplied frameworks, with global OS reach, i.e. ATSUI and the Font Panel, which are now potentially accessible from all apps (and present in all Cocoa ones), instead of, say, an iApp solution such as "iType".
And -- for font management, anyway -- he's 100% kee-rect. I'm definitely looking forward further enhancements in both speed and use in frameworks (and parity across both APIs) in the next OS X rev -- rather than a pretty, Apple-born, brushed metal font manager.
<strong>rumour has it Adobe will release an OS X version of ATM deluxe...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Where and when did you hear this? Adobe has said they WON'T release ATM or ATR for OS X. This has been mentioned a lot in the last couple years on the Mac forums. Do you know something that I don't? Please share your recon! :0)
<strong>rumour has it Adobe will release an OS X version of ATM deluxe...</strong><hr></blockquote>
No, rumor (and official word) has it that Adobe is getting out of the font manager business.
[ 12-10-2002: Message edited by: Hobbes ]</p>
Frameworks are another NeXT technology. They wrap the dynamic libraries, headers, documentation, and whatnot for an API subsystem into one nicely manageable bundle with versioning control, intelligent updating, etc, etc.
And frankly, the frameworks we have now are pretty dumbed down in comparison to what the NeXT folks were used to. Ah well.
But anywho, yeah, Apple providing a framework for font management (or just augmenting the existing font frameworks) would be sweet. The app gets the new functionality for zero effort.
I was a friad to assume that frameworks and the Cocoa API had much to do with one another. I get the concept, but I have no idea how this stuff really works.
The Cocoa apps are able to more easily take advantage of framework upgrades behind the scenes, however. Dynamic language + library, after all.
D
<strong>What I refer to is something like Action Utilities WYSIWYG, which displays your fonts as they appear inside your font menu...I suppose I need to see if there's an OS X solution for this need.....</strong><hr></blockquote>
the font panel does this, either with font names:
or with your own sample text:
Note that font size and weight is reflected immediately as well. The panel has some serious rough edges right now but it's a great start and the only way is up.
[ 12-15-2002: Message edited by: stupider...likeafox ]</p>
I'm working in Adobe Illustrator, banging away at a logo that has to be shot off to the vinyl shop for something that has to work later in the day. I know that I want to use a blackletter font for this logo, but I have so many different fonts that I can't remember their names....and in fact, I shouldn't be expected to remember their names. Because WYSIWYG is running, any time that I click on Illustrator's popup typeface menu I get to see all of my active fonts represented in their respective styles...ON THE FLY.
This is a big deal when you're looking for the right font RIGHT AWAY.
Go back and look at Apple's font app. You have no idea what the typeface "Zapfino" looks like unless you navigate over to it and highlight it. To do this you have to switch from Illustrator and fire up a Cocoa app so you can gain access to the font panel, then you have to slog through the menu interface.
Now, I also run Font Reserve, but it's guilty of the same interface problem in that there's no grand, all-encompassing quick view of your entire font library.
There have been so many times that I've been looking for the "right" font only to discover another font that I hadn't considered. Every time this has happened it's been because I've had immediate heads-up exposure to my active fonts.
That utility (WYSIWYG) worked for EVERY application's font menu. It was fantastic and I didn't realize how much I missed it. I went to <a href="http://www.poweronsoftware.com"; target="_blank">Action Utilities</a> website to see if that app had been ported to OS X. It hasn't been, and the decision on that port is still pending.
Do you guys understand what I'm talking about now?
Actually, any favorite fonts you save in the fonts panel will display itself in its typeface. Not quite what you're looking for, but a little closer.
<a href="http://www.apple.com/macosx/feedback/"; target="_blank">http://www.apple.com/macosx/feedback/</a>;