There really is no reason for a carrier to support a third party voip service. Why spend billions on building and supporting a network to have someone who has given nothing to the effort get a free ride on your investment. Voip services are going to have to come up with their own viable business model, the carriers are not going to help them.
What the carriers should do to compete is build their own voip services as an extension to their traditional service. That is how you keep up with innovation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedot
The close-minded management tactics that fail to have any real vision will be what ultimately makes these operators (Verizon is no better btw) just be a dumb pipe, which is what they fear so much ironically. Instead of embracing what is inevitable and preparing to harness all the benefits that can also be had by innovating now, they play this protectionist tactic that dooms them even further. You reap what you sow.
The fact that Jobs and Woz used to be phone phreakers building 'blue boxes' is quite ironic in this light.
Not really, that's like saying if the CEO of Volkswagen stole cars in their youth that they should be ok with you walking into their showroom and stealing their latest model.
Quote:
Originally Posted by auxio
If there is a way to launch a catastrophic attack on cell towers from your phone, then simply banning apps isn't going to prevent it from happening.
The app wasn't banned to prevent this, the advise is to not jailbreak in order to get Google Voice. Google Voice is banned most likely due to pressure from the networks because it's like Skype and allows free calls and SMS and will work over mobile networks.
Having a web interface will bypass this and Google are working on it.
To stream audio, you just need a 56k stream or thereabouts. I measured my 3G at 640k down, 256k up. I think edge is 384k down. For texting, it sure beats paying per send.
AT&T pulled the gv mobile app because they can. They can't pull the BB app because they can't stop them from installing. They can resonably control the iPhone progeamd because the significant portion of users are not going to jailbreak.
This whole gv mobile deal pisses me off and I am jailbreaking because of that alone.
Let's get back on topic. I think this guy had pretty enough of Apple's restrictions and decided to gate crash the app store. Sometimes Apple makes me wonder why they let stupid apps go in while the apps that truly help the iPhone expand its potential are rejected.
The fact is also that "GV Mobile" doesn't do anything that Google Voice's mobile Web Page can't do, its just more elegant. Barring these apps won't stop Google Voice being used on the iPhone.
There really is no reason for a carrier to support a third party voip service. Why spend billions on building and supporting a network to have someone who has given nothing to the effort get a free ride on your investment. Voip services are going to have to come up with their own viable business model, the carriers are not going to help them.
What the carriers should do to compete is build their own voip services as an extension to their traditional service. That is how you keep up with innovation.
Precisely. The carriers taking control of these emerging services is what I was postulating to begin with... they don't do that, much like the recording industry didn't either and lost a much bigger payday and now have to share revenues with Apple and the like. The same will happen to companies that are unwilling to evolve and embrace innovation, be it VOIP or number management and "abstraction" (GV), etc...
Not to belabor on what others have pointed out already, but Google Voice is NOT a VOIP service, it does not use the carrier's data infrastructure to carry the call (such as Skype would), it uses the voice network and in fact depletes you of as many AT&T minutes as you are on the phone for (so AT&T gets their money there). It is for all intents and purposes (as others have pointed out) more akin to a calling card, but also allows you to abstract your phone numbers and control callers, etc... through its management site.
For a "free software supporter" (which would make you a freedom loving altruist and possibly an anti-capitalist) ... you sure have some obnoxious advertising in your signature.
You might notice that people on this forum generally don't spam the threads with advertisements and other braggadocio.
I agree, it was tacky. It's also outside the bounds of the posting guidelines, so I've toned his sig down in a couple ways. I generally make a distinction between linking to things you believe in and just advertising something for your own benefit.
The fact is also that "GV Mobile" doesn't do anything that Google Voice's mobile Web Page can't do, its just more elegant. Barring these apps won't stop Google Voice being used on the iPhone. This is quite simply one of the most ridiculous decisions Apple has ever made. I don't care who is "behind it" (i.e. those on Apple forums who are quick to blame AT&T) Apple have the final say on the app store, not AT&T.
It was stupid. I wish someone would make an "iphone-esque" web interface for GVoice, like iPhone apps used to be before the app store. Back then there was at least some freedom and then people generally stopped doing it.
I think the whole reason AT&T or whomever cares has to be SMS. Google Voice does not really allow for free calls . It is not using the data connection, they call you and you end up using cell minutes.
There really is no reason for a carrier to support a third party voip service. Why spend billions on building and supporting a network to have someone who has given nothing to the effort get a free ride on your investment. Voip services are going to have to come up with their own viable business model, the carriers are not going to help them.
What the carriers should do to compete is build their own voip services as an extension to their traditional service. That is how you keep up with innovation.
nice post. Too bad it has no relevance in a discussion about why GV was banned or jailbreaking to get the apps.
As soon as Google rolls out GV service to Canada, I will jailbreak and get one of the apps immediately. I install the apps I choose on my Mac. I install the apps I choose on my PC. There is no legit reason for me not to install the apps I choose on my iPhone. If Apple wants to force me to jailbreak to use these apps, so be it.
Also, the VoIP companies have viable business models. It is selling IP based calling. You know, on the internet. Saying the carriers are right to keep users from using VoIP because of their own archaic business model is like saying your ISP would be right to block VoIP app so they could sell you their own. Or your phone company saying you could only use their long distance plans. See, those would both be idiotic suggestions in this day and age. The only valid reason for carriers to block VoIP for now, is because their shitty networks can't handle the load.
The app wasn't banned to prevent this, the advise is to not jailbreak in order to get Google Voice. Google Voice is banned most likely due to pressure from the networks because it's like Skype and allows free calls and SMS and will work over mobile networks.
Having a web interface will bypass this and Google are working on it.
It doesn't allow free calling on the cell network. Not really. As has been said here and as I mentioned in other threads, it still uses up your minutes, as per your plan. It is no different than you using a calling card, as far as 'free calls'. And even if it did, as you say, it is still easy enough to use the web on the iPhone to get the same service. So, why would the carrier(s) pressure Apple to remove the app, if it accomplishes nothing that benefits the carrier?
A more refined web app might be better than the current GV Mobile site, but marginally. You still lose some functionality that the app would have provided, not directly related to calling. Notifications of new voice mail for one (I suppose you could get an email, but that is not the same as a Push Notification). The ability to browse your contacts and not have to manually type them in is another. Again, I guess you could try to keep your GV contacts in sync with your iPhone contacts, but that is one more extra step that needs to be maintained.
I think a web app is all Google will be left with as an option. Too bad, because it doesn't seem like anyone really benefits from this decision. Customers certainly lose. AT&T gains nothing and stops nothing. Apple really is the only party the benefits, I guess. Losing all of those VVM subs that as fully functioning GV app would precipitate wouldn't have been to their liking.
Comments
What the carriers should do to compete is build their own voip services as an extension to their traditional service. That is how you keep up with innovation.
The close-minded management tactics that fail to have any real vision will be what ultimately makes these operators (Verizon is no better btw) just be a dumb pipe, which is what they fear so much ironically. Instead of embracing what is inevitable and preparing to harness all the benefits that can also be had by innovating now, they play this protectionist tactic that dooms them even further. You reap what you sow.
The fact that Jobs and Woz used to be phone phreakers building 'blue boxes' is quite ironic in this light.
Not really, that's like saying if the CEO of Volkswagen stole cars in their youth that they should be ok with you walking into their showroom and stealing their latest model.
If there is a way to launch a catastrophic attack on cell towers from your phone, then simply banning apps isn't going to prevent it from happening.
The app wasn't banned to prevent this, the advise is to not jailbreak in order to get Google Voice. Google Voice is banned most likely due to pressure from the networks because it's like Skype and allows free calls and SMS and will work over mobile networks.
Having a web interface will bypass this and Google are working on it.
To stream audio, you just need a 56k stream or thereabouts. I measured my 3G at 640k down, 256k up. I think edge is 384k down. For texting, it sure beats paying per send.
This whole gv mobile deal pisses me off and I am jailbreaking because of that alone.
The fact is also that "GV Mobile" doesn't do anything that Google Voice's mobile Web Page can't do, its just more elegant. Barring these apps won't stop Google Voice being used on the iPhone.
+1
I couldn't have said it any better myself.
There really is no reason for a carrier to support a third party voip service. Why spend billions on building and supporting a network to have someone who has given nothing to the effort get a free ride on your investment. Voip services are going to have to come up with their own viable business model, the carriers are not going to help them.
What the carriers should do to compete is build their own voip services as an extension to their traditional service. That is how you keep up with innovation.
Precisely. The carriers taking control of these emerging services is what I was postulating to begin with... they don't do that, much like the recording industry didn't either and lost a much bigger payday and now have to share revenues with Apple and the like. The same will happen to companies that are unwilling to evolve and embrace innovation, be it VOIP or number management and "abstraction" (GV), etc...
Not to belabor on what others have pointed out already, but Google Voice is NOT a VOIP service, it does not use the carrier's data infrastructure to carry the call (such as Skype would), it uses the voice network and in fact depletes you of as many AT&T minutes as you are on the phone for (so AT&T gets their money there). It is for all intents and purposes (as others have pointed out) more akin to a calling card, but also allows you to abstract your phone numbers and control callers, etc... through its management site.
For a "free software supporter" (which would make you a freedom loving altruist and possibly an anti-capitalist) ... you sure have some obnoxious advertising in your signature.
You might notice that people on this forum generally don't spam the threads with advertisements and other braggadocio.
I agree, it was tacky. It's also outside the bounds of the posting guidelines, so I've toned his sig down in a couple ways. I generally make a distinction between linking to things you believe in and just advertising something for your own benefit.
The fact is also that "GV Mobile" doesn't do anything that Google Voice's mobile Web Page can't do, its just more elegant. Barring these apps won't stop Google Voice being used on the iPhone. This is quite simply one of the most ridiculous decisions Apple has ever made. I don't care who is "behind it" (i.e. those on Apple forums who are quick to blame AT&T) Apple have the final say on the app store, not AT&T.
It was stupid. I wish someone would make an "iphone-esque" web interface for GVoice, like iPhone apps used to be before the app store. Back then there was at least some freedom and then people generally stopped doing it.
I think the whole reason AT&T or whomever cares has to be SMS. Google Voice does not really allow for free calls . It is not using the data connection, they call you and you end up using cell minutes.
There really is no reason for a carrier to support a third party voip service. Why spend billions on building and supporting a network to have someone who has given nothing to the effort get a free ride on your investment. Voip services are going to have to come up with their own viable business model, the carriers are not going to help them.
What the carriers should do to compete is build their own voip services as an extension to their traditional service. That is how you keep up with innovation.
nice post. Too bad it has no relevance in a discussion about why GV was banned or jailbreaking to get the apps.
As soon as Google rolls out GV service to Canada, I will jailbreak and get one of the apps immediately. I install the apps I choose on my Mac. I install the apps I choose on my PC. There is no legit reason for me not to install the apps I choose on my iPhone. If Apple wants to force me to jailbreak to use these apps, so be it.
Also, the VoIP companies have viable business models. It is selling IP based calling. You know, on the internet. Saying the carriers are right to keep users from using VoIP because of their own archaic business model is like saying your ISP would be right to block VoIP app so they could sell you their own. Or your phone company saying you could only use their long distance plans. See, those would both be idiotic suggestions in this day and age. The only valid reason for carriers to block VoIP for now, is because their shitty networks can't handle the load.
The app wasn't banned to prevent this, the advise is to not jailbreak in order to get Google Voice. Google Voice is banned most likely due to pressure from the networks because it's like Skype and allows free calls and SMS and will work over mobile networks.
Having a web interface will bypass this and Google are working on it.
It doesn't allow free calling on the cell network. Not really. As has been said here and as I mentioned in other threads, it still uses up your minutes, as per your plan. It is no different than you using a calling card, as far as 'free calls'. And even if it did, as you say, it is still easy enough to use the web on the iPhone to get the same service. So, why would the carrier(s) pressure Apple to remove the app, if it accomplishes nothing that benefits the carrier?
A more refined web app might be better than the current GV Mobile site, but marginally. You still lose some functionality that the app would have provided, not directly related to calling. Notifications of new voice mail for one (I suppose you could get an email, but that is not the same as a Push Notification). The ability to browse your contacts and not have to manually type them in is another. Again, I guess you could try to keep your GV contacts in sync with your iPhone contacts, but that is one more extra step that needs to be maintained.
I think a web app is all Google will be left with as an option. Too bad, because it doesn't seem like anyone really benefits from this decision. Customers certainly lose. AT&T gains nothing and stops nothing. Apple really is the only party the benefits, I guess. Losing all of those VVM subs that as fully functioning GV app would precipitate wouldn't have been to their liking.
weirdly involved to set up, but you can call directly and receive
calls (and since Fring gets push notifications you can get "pushed"),
even on an ipod touch.
The thing to do is
1. set up a Gizmo5 account (this will give you a SIP number)
2. hook up the gizmo5 account to your Google Voice account
3. create a SIP account in Fring (oh yeah, 2.5: download Fring to
your iDevice)
your username is your SIP number (including the 1)
your password is your Gizmo5 password
the server is proxy01.sipphone.com
4. Don't tell AT&T
Fring actually works pretty great as a Google Voice app. It's
weirdly involved to set up, but you can call directly and receive
calls (and since Fring gets push notifications you can get "pushed"),
even on an ipod touch.
The thing to do is
1. set up a Gizmo5 account (this will give you a SIP number)
2. hook up the gizmo5 account to your Google Voice account
3. create a SIP account in Fring (oh yeah, 2.5: download Fring to
your iDevice)
your username is your SIP number (including the 1)
your password is your Gizmo5 password
the server is proxy01.sipphone.com
4. Don't tell AT&T
Don't tell ATnT. LOL!
simply amazing. GO APPLE!
That's why everybody on this forum says, save the throllers.