... This sense of entitlement of some iPhone users is just amazing. If people don't like Apple and ipHone because they can't have GV app, they should just move to other carriers with other sh**t phones. People don't have a constitutional right to have an iPhone and a GV apps.
It's not entirely clear to me that even if (1) the "sense of entitlement of some iPhone users is just amazing" and (2) "[p]eople don't have a constitutional right to have an iPhone and a GV apps", this investigation is necessarily a bad idea.
There are serious problems brewing with regard to the App store. A lot of it has to do with the app-rejection process. Many developers find the process arbitrary and opaque. DaringFireball.net has some very troubling pieces documenting this.
If the FCC investigation does nothing more than shed light on the process, that'll be helpful. There are good developers leaving the App store. The App store ought to be the place where all the top talent WANTS to be, and NOT because they hate it but are willing to swallow their bile because there's money to be made. We should want loyalty, not resentment. Is the App store doing well right now? Yes. Is that a reason to ignore a serious problem until even you can see it? No, because by then there might not be enough goodwill left for the devs who left to come back. It won't matter to me HOW many billions of 99 cent apps are out there, if the cleverest apps leave the iPhone platform and go to Android or Pre.
I personally dislike government intrusion, if it's a matter of weaker products trying to get the government to hobble a stronger competitor. But here... there's something wrong going on in the App store. Let light be shed on it. That may well be enough.
The App store ought to be the place where all the top talent WANTS to be, and NOT because they hate it but are willing to swallow their bile because there's money to be made. We should want loyalty, not resentment.
Tell that to all those elitist game console developers who swore up and down that they would never develop for the lowly wii console --- and then have to backtrack because silly mini-games on the wii are making 10 times more money than they do on their precious superior PS3 platform.
Tell that to 99% of the population who has to punch in to a regular 9 to 5 job --- which most of them hate.
This is real life --- if they don't want to develop on certain platforms because it's beneath them --- it's their choice to become a starving artist.
To recap: Not only was the app rejected, but Apple pulled several other third-party Google Voice apps that had already passed the approval process while still leaving those developers on the hook for refunds to customers with misplaced anger about the removal.
Was Apple behind the rejection? AT&T? Who cares?
This shouldn't be happening. Apps that were approved got removed, without explanation. Developers poured blood, sweat and tears into these apps. I don't think it's too much to say that developers deserve guidelines that will help them understand which apps are going to be okay and which to avoid.
When I say "this shouldn't be happening", I mean that not only should the app rejection process not be happening like this, but Apple shouldn't be pissing off good developers like this. The developer stevenf who wrote that isn't an asshole, from what I can tell. He's a guy who really wants to write cool apps, but he's fed up with bad behavior on the part of Apple.
I am the first to applaud Apple when it does right. But we're not doing Apple any favors by defending them when they're behaving badly.
If Apple looked like it was trying to do the right thing (or was making changes in that direction) I'd be right with you, wanting the FCC to back off.
This shouldn't be happening. Apps that were approved got removed, without explanation. Developers poured blood, sweat and tears into these apps. I don't think it's too much to say that developers deserve guidelines that will help them understand which apps are going to be okay and which to avoid.
Just wait until you see the federal guidelines for this! Until the approval process is measured in years, because that ruling for a particular new feature in smartphone got tied up in some obscure subcommittee chaired by a politician with an axe to grind!
When the political winds shift back to the right (and they will, before they shift again to the left) and some new appointees from the other party take over the FCC, imagine how many apps will suddenly get pulled. Oh, of course, it'll be (a) in the name of decency, (b) to stop the terrorists, (c) for the children...
I'm guessing that most of you looking forward to serving your FCC overlords as your saviors probably don't have a lot of experience dealing with government bureaucrats...
Apple should be able to reject whatever they want. It's their store. However rejections should be consistent and fair. (Which this GV thing is not) What Apple shouldn't be able to do is only allow App Store apps on the iPhone. It's not their iPhone.
Why doesn't Apple update Mac OS X and create a MacApp Store, and only apps from that store can run on any Mac?
Maybe the FCC will force Apple to recognize that an iPhone buyer owns his iPhone so that he can install whatever software he pleases on his own property.
By denying the ownership of iPhones, and selecting what an owner can install on his iPhone, Apple violates both property law and anti-trust provisions, not to mention consumer protection laws and, possibly, FCC regulations.
I applaud the FCC investigation and hope that it will bring a welcomed change in Apple's arbitrary and unlawful conduct.
I'm not sure if you even have the foggiest with respect to what you are talking about. aT&Ts involment with the US government goes back a very long time. Much can be traced back to WW2. With the creation of the NSA, AT&T practically became a branch of government.
In any event this relationship has gone on for years now. Democrats or Republican it really doesn't make much difference. What lines we can't tap through the NSAs direct connection to AT&Ts switches we tap with nuclear submarines.
What is really sad is that Obama is making a bigger mess of the country faster than Bush ever did. The current administration appears to be completely ignorant when it comes to fianace anything.
Dave
The current AT&T is connected to the old AT&T in name only. Nothing else. SBC bought the remnants of AT&T (mainly its cellular business) and adopted its name. There is no continuity between the old AT&T management and the new at&t management. So your nice conspiracy story about at&t involvement with the US government going back a very long time is basically fiction.
As to Obama making a bigger mess of the country faster than Bush ever did, well that's just partisan sore-loser speak. The record of ineptness and incompetence of the Bush administration is without equal. Failed foreign policy. Failed economic policy. Failed domestic policy. Failed environmental policy. Failed disaster relief policy. Failed everything.
The Bush administration has done nothing, NOTHING that has redounded to the benefit of the majority of the country. Name one. None. His close friends benefited a lot and got extremely wealthy but the rest of us got nothing. And don't say 'preventing a terrorist attack' because 9/11 happened during the Bush admin at a time when Clinton holdovers were warning them about Al Qaeda and the Bushies chose to ignore the threat because they wanted to play big power politics with China and Russia.
I'm so sick and tired of repiglicans who are so quick to rewrite history. What you think we're stupid and have already forgotten the havoc that president moron wreaked on this country? Before you guys start criticizing the current president, you should first apologize for voting the last one into office!
Tell that to all those elitist game console developers who swore up and down that they would never develop for the lowly wii console --- and then have to backtrack because silly mini-games on the wii are making 10 times more money than they do on their precious superior PS3 platform.
Tell that to 99% of the population who has to punch in to a regular 9 to 5 job --- which most of them hate.
This is real life --- if they don't want to develop on certain platforms because it's beneath them --- it's their choice to become a starving artist.
Do you know what a non sequitur is? Were you even trying to make sense? That's your argument, that life's a bitch? If you were smarter, you'd understand that argument can be applied to anything. I could apply it on my side. Let me do just that:
Whatever Apple & AT&T are doing behind the scenes with the app approval process, they've brought this scrutiny down upon themselves. Yeah, it IS real life. These two companies (one of which I adore) f'd around and got the Fed involved. THAT'S real life. It sucks and Apple & AT&T should have been smart enough to see this coming and avoid it. They didn't. Now the Fed is here. It takes awhile for them to come; it takes longer for them to leave. I remember Reagan's famous line "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"
The nice thing is that involvement like this from the Fed is sometimes a warning that there's still time for you to do right. There are many very thoughtful articles being written right now about what's wrong with the App store. They all have a common theme. Are you gonna sling angry words around, with your eyes tightly closed, or are you gonna calm down and think that maybe these guys have a point.
(And as to your point that most people hate what they do for a living: you have the power to make changes in your life. And it doesn't have to be "bear it quietly" vs "leave and do something else quietly". When things are genuinely WRONG, you have the option to change them. Sheep only see 2 options. Men see the third. And just because someone bleats in an angry tone and make offensive non-sequiturs, that doesn't keep him from being counted among the sheep)
Maybe the FCC will force Apple to recognize that an iPhone buyer owns his iPhone so that he can install whatever software he pleases on his own property.
By denying the ownership of iPhones, and selecting what an owner can install on his iPhone, Apple violates both property law and anti-trust provisions, not to mention consumer protection laws and, possibly, FCC regulations.
I applaud the FCC investigation and hope that it will bring a welcomed change in Apple's arbitrary and unlawful conduct.
Hopefully that's exactly what WON'T happen. I don't necessarily have a problem with an App review process. But the rules should be known in advance, should not be subject to whimsy, and when an app is rejected, there should be a way for the developer to find out why it was rejected and what he needs to do to make it right.
Most developers would be quite fine with that.
Now, Apple might opt to go the route of saying that the only restrictions are that your app isn't malware. I don't think anyone (dev or user) could complain about that. They might have tighter restrictions, saying that certain classes of app can't be put in the store (as indeed they've done). But the more restrictions they make, the more likely it'll be that someone will view them as anti-competitive. And it won't be up to you and me. It'll be up to politicians, whose decisions aren't always (or even often) well-informed and impartial of intent.
I think all Apple needs to do to make people happy is to be transparent and consistent with their decisions. Regarding AT&T, the internet has been rife with a lot of speculation, some of it seemingly pretty well thought out, and some of it more driven by tribal antipathy. The main thing I think the MIGHT be useful from the coming fiasco will be that we might learn what's happening behind the scenes. Somebody's making a hash of the app store. It'll be interesting to know who that is.
(And p.s.: Why do people keep slinging the phrase "anti-trust" around whenever something displeases them? This doesn't qualify. It's like in the 70s hearing people call things "crypto-fascist" at every slightest inconvenience </rant>)
Apple should be able to reject whatever they want. It's their store. However rejections should be consistent and fair. (Which this GV thing is not) What Apple shouldn't be able to do is only allow App Store apps on the iPhone. It's not their iPhone.
Why doesn't Apple update Mac OS X and create a MacApp Store, and only apps from that store can run on any Mac?
Is there a "like" here just like Facebook? Good comment. I really want that to happen for the Macs.
I think the iPhone is the most over priced, over hyped and over controlled device known to mankind.
I absolutely refuse to spend nearly $100 a month (or more for some) for a phone that my computer and camera (paid for) does a thousand times better. Not to mention getting those annoying AT&T phone bills every month for two years! Getting yanked around by Apple and AT&T to boot!
Sure if I lived and worked in the city and couldn't do a 4 lb notebook slung over my shoulder then yes, perhaps I would need a iPhone.
But my $30 (paid for) flip phone only costs me $10-$15 a month in minutes depending upon use. Naturally if I'm using it more, I'm making more money so it's no bother to buy more minutes.
My phone fits easily in my jeans pocket, and by chance if it gets lost or fails, it's only a $30 phone, there are plenty more where it came from.
No contracts, no problems , no headaches.
Life is easy with less headaches, that's why I always bought Mac's.
Look at this latest headache the PC crowd has to deal with now, a permanent BIO root-kit installed on 60% of PC's out there.
The iPhone is not for me, I've seen my friends get them, one got lost overboard, another has a shattered glass and another has been dropped and works, but looks like a truck ran over it.
I've learned with my previous iPods to just keep it in a case and handle it as little as possible, with the iPhone that's the opposite, it has a lot of things to do with it, therefore it's highly likely to get ruined.
I think the iPhone is the most over priced, over hyped and over controlled device known to mankind.
IBut my $30 (paid for) flip phone only costs me $10-$15 a month in minutes depending upon use. Naturally if I'm using it more, I'm making more money so it's no bother to buy more minutes.
Easy. Your statement says it all. You cannot afford the iPhone's monthly fees as you find it exorbitant and you dismiss it as over-hyped and over-priced. Did you see a previous survey on Appleinsider? Most people who own iPhones generate high incomes and have high affordability means. What makes you bash the iPhone?
Comments
... This sense of entitlement of some iPhone users is just amazing. If people don't like Apple and ipHone because they can't have GV app, they should just move to other carriers with other sh**t phones. People don't have a constitutional right to have an iPhone and a GV apps.
It's not entirely clear to me that even if (1) the "sense of entitlement of some iPhone users is just amazing" and (2) "[p]eople don't have a constitutional right to have an iPhone and a GV apps", this investigation is necessarily a bad idea.
There are serious problems brewing with regard to the App store. A lot of it has to do with the app-rejection process. Many developers find the process arbitrary and opaque. DaringFireball.net has some very troubling pieces documenting this.
If the FCC investigation does nothing more than shed light on the process, that'll be helpful. There are good developers leaving the App store. The App store ought to be the place where all the top talent WANTS to be, and NOT because they hate it but are willing to swallow their bile because there's money to be made. We should want loyalty, not resentment. Is the App store doing well right now? Yes. Is that a reason to ignore a serious problem until even you can see it? No, because by then there might not be enough goodwill left for the devs who left to come back. It won't matter to me HOW many billions of 99 cent apps are out there, if the cleverest apps leave the iPhone platform and go to Android or Pre.
I personally dislike government intrusion, if it's a matter of weaker products trying to get the government to hobble a stronger competitor. But here... there's something wrong going on in the App store. Let light be shed on it. That may well be enough.
The App store ought to be the place where all the top talent WANTS to be, and NOT because they hate it but are willing to swallow their bile because there's money to be made. We should want loyalty, not resentment.
Tell that to all those elitist game console developers who swore up and down that they would never develop for the lowly wii console --- and then have to backtrack because silly mini-games on the wii are making 10 times more money than they do on their precious superior PS3 platform.
Tell that to 99% of the population who has to punch in to a regular 9 to 5 job --- which most of them hate.
This is real life --- if they don't want to develop on certain platforms because it's beneath them --- it's their choice to become a starving artist.
I can't believe you guys really want the friggin' FCC in charge of approving apps for smartphones.
That's not it at all. Read this, for instance.
To recap: Not only was the app rejected, but Apple pulled several other third-party Google Voice apps that had already passed the approval process while still leaving those developers on the hook for refunds to customers with misplaced anger about the removal.
Was Apple behind the rejection? AT&T? Who cares?
This shouldn't be happening. Apps that were approved got removed, without explanation. Developers poured blood, sweat and tears into these apps. I don't think it's too much to say that developers deserve guidelines that will help them understand which apps are going to be okay and which to avoid.
When I say "this shouldn't be happening", I mean that not only should the app rejection process not be happening like this, but Apple shouldn't be pissing off good developers like this. The developer stevenf who wrote that isn't an asshole, from what I can tell. He's a guy who really wants to write cool apps, but he's fed up with bad behavior on the part of Apple.
I am the first to applaud Apple when it does right. But we're not doing Apple any favors by defending them when they're behaving badly.
If Apple looked like it was trying to do the right thing (or was making changes in that direction) I'd be right with you, wanting the FCC to back off.
This shouldn't be happening. Apps that were approved got removed, without explanation. Developers poured blood, sweat and tears into these apps. I don't think it's too much to say that developers deserve guidelines that will help them understand which apps are going to be okay and which to avoid.
Just wait until you see the federal guidelines for this! Until the approval process is measured in years, because that ruling for a particular new feature in smartphone got tied up in some obscure subcommittee chaired by a politician with an axe to grind!
When the political winds shift back to the right (and they will, before they shift again to the left) and some new appointees from the other party take over the FCC, imagine how many apps will suddenly get pulled. Oh, of course, it'll be (a) in the name of decency, (b) to stop the terrorists, (c) for the children...
I'm guessing that most of you looking forward to serving your FCC overlords as your saviors probably don't have a lot of experience dealing with government bureaucrats...
As they say, "Good luck with that!"
Why doesn't Apple update Mac OS X and create a MacApp Store, and only apps from that store can run on any Mac?
By denying the ownership of iPhones, and selecting what an owner can install on his iPhone, Apple violates both property law and anti-trust provisions, not to mention consumer protection laws and, possibly, FCC regulations.
I applaud the FCC investigation and hope that it will bring a welcomed change in Apple's arbitrary and unlawful conduct.
I'm not sure if you even have the foggiest with respect to what you are talking about. aT&Ts involment with the US government goes back a very long time. Much can be traced back to WW2. With the creation of the NSA, AT&T practically became a branch of government.
In any event this relationship has gone on for years now. Democrats or Republican it really doesn't make much difference. What lines we can't tap through the NSAs direct connection to AT&Ts switches we tap with nuclear submarines.
What is really sad is that Obama is making a bigger mess of the country faster than Bush ever did. The current administration appears to be completely ignorant when it comes to fianace anything.
Dave
The current AT&T is connected to the old AT&T in name only. Nothing else. SBC bought the remnants of AT&T (mainly its cellular business) and adopted its name. There is no continuity between the old AT&T management and the new at&t management. So your nice conspiracy story about at&t involvement with the US government going back a very long time is basically fiction.
As to Obama making a bigger mess of the country faster than Bush ever did, well that's just partisan sore-loser speak. The record of ineptness and incompetence of the Bush administration is without equal. Failed foreign policy. Failed economic policy. Failed domestic policy. Failed environmental policy. Failed disaster relief policy. Failed everything.
The Bush administration has done nothing, NOTHING that has redounded to the benefit of the majority of the country. Name one. None. His close friends benefited a lot and got extremely wealthy but the rest of us got nothing. And don't say 'preventing a terrorist attack' because 9/11 happened during the Bush admin at a time when Clinton holdovers were warning them about Al Qaeda and the Bushies chose to ignore the threat because they wanted to play big power politics with China and Russia.
I'm so sick and tired of repiglicans who are so quick to rewrite history. What you think we're stupid and have already forgotten the havoc that president moron wreaked on this country? Before you guys start criticizing the current president, you should first apologize for voting the last one into office!
Tell that to all those elitist game console developers who swore up and down that they would never develop for the lowly wii console --- and then have to backtrack because silly mini-games on the wii are making 10 times more money than they do on their precious superior PS3 platform.
Tell that to 99% of the population who has to punch in to a regular 9 to 5 job --- which most of them hate.
This is real life --- if they don't want to develop on certain platforms because it's beneath them --- it's their choice to become a starving artist.
Do you know what a non sequitur is? Were you even trying to make sense? That's your argument, that life's a bitch? If you were smarter, you'd understand that argument can be applied to anything. I could apply it on my side. Let me do just that:
Whatever Apple & AT&T are doing behind the scenes with the app approval process, they've brought this scrutiny down upon themselves. Yeah, it IS real life. These two companies (one of which I adore) f'd around and got the Fed involved. THAT'S real life. It sucks and Apple & AT&T should have been smart enough to see this coming and avoid it. They didn't. Now the Fed is here. It takes awhile for them to come; it takes longer for them to leave. I remember Reagan's famous line "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"
The nice thing is that involvement like this from the Fed is sometimes a warning that there's still time for you to do right. There are many very thoughtful articles being written right now about what's wrong with the App store. They all have a common theme. Are you gonna sling angry words around, with your eyes tightly closed, or are you gonna calm down and think that maybe these guys have a point.
(And as to your point that most people hate what they do for a living: you have the power to make changes in your life. And it doesn't have to be "bear it quietly" vs "leave and do something else quietly". When things are genuinely WRONG, you have the option to change them. Sheep only see 2 options. Men see the third. And just because someone bleats in an angry tone and make offensive non-sequiturs, that doesn't keep him from being counted among the sheep)
repiglicans
Classy.
Maybe the FCC will force Apple to recognize that an iPhone buyer owns his iPhone so that he can install whatever software he pleases on his own property.
By denying the ownership of iPhones, and selecting what an owner can install on his iPhone, Apple violates both property law and anti-trust provisions, not to mention consumer protection laws and, possibly, FCC regulations.
I applaud the FCC investigation and hope that it will bring a welcomed change in Apple's arbitrary and unlawful conduct.
Hopefully that's exactly what WON'T happen. I don't necessarily have a problem with an App review process. But the rules should be known in advance, should not be subject to whimsy, and when an app is rejected, there should be a way for the developer to find out why it was rejected and what he needs to do to make it right.
Most developers would be quite fine with that.
Now, Apple might opt to go the route of saying that the only restrictions are that your app isn't malware. I don't think anyone (dev or user) could complain about that. They might have tighter restrictions, saying that certain classes of app can't be put in the store (as indeed they've done). But the more restrictions they make, the more likely it'll be that someone will view them as anti-competitive. And it won't be up to you and me. It'll be up to politicians, whose decisions aren't always (or even often) well-informed and impartial of intent.
I think all Apple needs to do to make people happy is to be transparent and consistent with their decisions. Regarding AT&T, the internet has been rife with a lot of speculation, some of it seemingly pretty well thought out, and some of it more driven by tribal antipathy. The main thing I think the MIGHT be useful from the coming fiasco will be that we might learn what's happening behind the scenes. Somebody's making a hash of the app store. It'll be interesting to know who that is.
(And p.s.: Why do people keep slinging the phrase "anti-trust" around whenever something displeases them? This doesn't qualify. It's like in the 70s hearing people call things "crypto-fascist" at every slightest inconvenience </rant>)
Rob Schneider derp de derp.
Derp de derpity derpie derp.
Until one day?a derp a derp a derp a derp.
Derp de derp?da teedley tum!
From the creators of?DER
?and TUM TE TIDDLY TUM TE TOO
Rob Schneider is?
DA DERP DE DERP DA TEEDLEY DERPIE DERPIE DUMB
Rated PG-13
lol brings back memories... digging out that SP episode...
Monopolies are economically bad for everyone - even the monopolist, long term.
AT&T is a monopoly how? I'm sure there are other carriers.
Apple is a monopoly how? I'm sure there are way more other phone manufacturers.
AT&T is a monopoly how? I'm sure there are other carriers.
Apple is a monopoly how? I'm sure there are way more other phone manufacturers.
By offering the phone on one carrier only, it's as close to a monopoly as you can get.
By offering the phone on one carrier only, it's as close to a monopoly as you can get.
You misunderstand. You can only monopolise a market, not a product! Any phone on a single carrier is an EXCLUSIVE and totally legal in most countries.
Apple should be able to reject whatever they want. It's their store. However rejections should be consistent and fair. (Which this GV thing is not) What Apple shouldn't be able to do is only allow App Store apps on the iPhone. It's not their iPhone.
Why doesn't Apple update Mac OS X and create a MacApp Store, and only apps from that store can run on any Mac?
Is there a "like" here just like Facebook?
AT&T is a monopoly how? I'm sure there are other carriers.
Apple is a monopoly how? I'm sure there are way more other phone manufacturers.
ATNT is a monopoly.
Apple is not IMO.
I absolutely refuse to spend nearly $100 a month (or more for some) for a phone that my computer and camera (paid for) does a thousand times better. Not to mention getting those annoying AT&T phone bills every month for two years! Getting yanked around by Apple and AT&T to boot!
Sure if I lived and worked in the city and couldn't do a 4 lb notebook slung over my shoulder then yes, perhaps I would need a iPhone.
But my $30 (paid for) flip phone only costs me $10-$15 a month in minutes depending upon use. Naturally if I'm using it more, I'm making more money so it's no bother to buy more minutes.
My phone fits easily in my jeans pocket, and by chance if it gets lost or fails, it's only a $30 phone, there are plenty more where it came from.
No contracts, no problems , no headaches.
Life is easy with less headaches, that's why I always bought Mac's.
Look at this latest headache the PC crowd has to deal with now, a permanent BIO root-kit installed on 60% of PC's out there.
http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=3828
The iPhone is not for me, I've seen my friends get them, one got lost overboard, another has a shattered glass and another has been dropped and works, but looks like a truck ran over it.
I've learned with my previous iPods to just keep it in a case and handle it as little as possible, with the iPhone that's the opposite, it has a lot of things to do with it, therefore it's highly likely to get ruined.
I think the iPhone is the most over priced, over hyped and over controlled device known to mankind.
IBut my $30 (paid for) flip phone only costs me $10-$15 a month in minutes depending upon use. Naturally if I'm using it more, I'm making more money so it's no bother to buy more minutes.
Easy. Your statement says it all. You cannot afford the iPhone's monthly fees as you find it exorbitant and you dismiss it as over-hyped and over-priced. Did you see a previous survey on Appleinsider? Most people who own iPhones generate high incomes and have high affordability means. What makes you bash the iPhone?