Smart people are much less likely to buy american because they are used to thinking about their purchasing decisions in a logical way. They ask themselves, what is the best value for my money?
If you try to answer that question well and you have a good understanding of automotive engineering you will come to the conclusion that american cars are terrible value for the money. So how can anybody buy american? Well they are the same people who buy PCs and vote Republican. Some of them are intelligent, sure, but they are the minority. They arrived at a bad choice for lack of caring.
You seem to be part of the gullible group. The reason being you seem to believe that car safety is dictated by crash test ratings where this is only part of a much larger equation. The other part is the ability the car gives you to avoid the crash in the first place. Things like good driver visibility, good handling including road feedback, neutrality of balance, good linear breaking power and feel, agility, etc.
If you take all of those into account you will realize that american cars are actually pretty unsafe. They handle like crap, especially a minivan which, if american, wobble uncontrollably even at low speeds, has no grip, power or breaking, etc etc. Only a dimwit would buy american, and I know a lot of people who own them and they are all dimwits.
There. That's all you need to say. It's obvious youo are biased against American cars, saying people who buy them are dimwits. You are insulting many people on this forum.
There. That's all you need to say. It's obvious youo are biased against American cars, saying people who buy them are dimwits. You are insulting many people on this forum.
The whole world is biased against american cars. That is why two of the three have gone bankrupt. Anyone who buys into a company with bankrupt ideas is stupid.
Smart people are much less likely to buy american because they are used to thinking about their purchasing decisions in a logical way. They ask themselves, what is the best value for my money?
If you try to answer that question well and you have a good understanding of automotive engineering you will come to the conclusion that american cars are terrible value for the money. So how can anybody buy american? Well they are the same people who buy PCs and vote Republican. Some of them are intelligent, sure, but they are the minority. They arrived at a bad choice for lack of caring.
You seem to be part of the gullible group. The reason being you seem to believe that car safety is dictated by crash test ratings where this is only part of a much larger equation. The other part is the ability the car gives you to avoid the crash in the first place. Things like good driver visibility, good handling including road feedback, neutrality of balance, good linear breaking power and feel, agility, etc.
If you take all of those into account you will realize that american cars are actually pretty unsafe. They handle like crap, especially a minivan which, if american, wobble uncontrollably even at low speeds, has no grip, power or breaking, etc etc. Only a dimwit would buy american, and I know a lot of people who own them and they are all dimwits.
Dude, lay off the personal stuff. And lay off the political stuff, too. They have nothing to do with this thread.
In this case, I doubt the that the fact the car(s) were American minivans had much to do with the outcome.
On the larger issue of safety and value of American cars: I still think that overall, they are not as good as their Japanese and German counterparts. I bought several Japanese cars, then went with a GMC Envoy six years ago. It was comfortable and drove well. It was also a piece of shit and got terrible gas mileage. I next owned two Toyota Camrys consecutively, and have noticed much better quality. There are a few American offerings that are compelling for my next car, but my experience with the last one makes it unlikely I will buy one.
That said, there are safe American cars and unsafe ones. Frankly, the safety factor the least of the concerns for the American auto industry.
Add two american minivans with their crappy handling and subpar safety design to 1 very stupid driver and the result is 8 dead.
That is why my next car will be a BMW. Probably the safest car in the world and the most fun to drive too.
BMWs are good under the hood, but their style is crap. Ever since they hired Chris Bangle, it's been a long road downhill. If you want performance and world-class style, Audi stands alone.
Dude, lay off the personal stuff. And lay off the political stuff, too. They have nothing to do with this thread.
In this case, I doubt the that the fact the car(s) were American minivans had much to do with the outcome.
On the larger issue of safety and value of American cars: I still think that overall, they are not as good as their Japanese and German counterparts. I bought several Japanese cars, then went with a GMC Envoy six years ago. It was comfortable and drove well. It was also a piece of shit and got terrible gas mileage. I next owned two Toyota Camrys consecutively, and have noticed much better quality. There are a few American offerings that are compelling for my next car, but my experience with the last one makes it unlikely I will buy one.
That said, there are safe American cars and unsafe ones. Frankly, the safety factor the least of the concerns for the American auto industry.
An Envoy and two Camrys... ouch! I wouldn't want to be you. Do yourself a favor and stay away from Toyotas... buy a Honda Accord or something.
BMWs are good under the hood, but their style is crap. Ever since they hired Chris Bangle, it's been a long road downhill. If you want performance and world-class style, Audi stands alone.
I have got news for you, Chris Bangle has resigned from BMW a long time ago and since then they have come out with stunning designs that are likely to become classics. Take, for example, the new Z4. Pictures don't do it justice:
An Envoy and two Camrys... ouch! I wouldn't want to be you. Do yourself a favor and stay away from Toyotas... buy a Honda Accord or something.
I think you're just trolling. But nonetheless, the Camrys have been very good. Extremely reliable, comfortable, etc. As for Hondas, well I've seen people get good ones and bad ones. I had a friend with an 03 or 04 that needed a new radio unit and oil pan within 20,000 miles. I also think Hondas are pretty bland...even more so than the Toyotas.
What is your opinion of Nissans? I've had mostly good experiences with those.
Oh, and the Envoy? That was a mistake not to be repeated.
I think you're just trolling. But nonetheless, the Camrys have been very good. Extremely reliable, comfortable, etc. As for Hondas, well I've seen people get good ones and bad ones. I had a friend with an 03 or 04 that needed a new radio unit and oil pan within 20,000 miles. I also think Hondas are pretty bland...even more so than the Toyotas.
What is your opinion of Nissans? I've had mostly good experiences with those.
Why ask Tauron's opinion? Camrys have always been highly rated, so yeah, I'd mark it as trolling. The worst I recall ever hearing about them is that they're understated, probably a euphemism for a bit boring.
Why ask Tauron's opinion? Camrys have always been highly rated, so yeah, I'd mark it as trolling. The worst I recall ever hearing about them is that they're understated, probably a euphemism for a bit boring.
Trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, I suppose.
I have got news for you, Chris Bangle has resigned from BMW a long time ago and since then they have come out with stunning designs that are likely to become classics. Take, for example, the new Z4.
Chris Bangle resigned from his post as BMW's Chief of Design in February 2009.
Not a "long time ago."
The E89 Z4 was revealed in December 2008.
This design, along with the future releases like the F10 5 series, were all finalized and approved by him before he left the company.
More troubling is this:
Quote:
Probably the safest car in the world and the most fun to drive too.
Safest car in the world? Safe, surely. But safest? What are you basing this on?
I think you're just trolling. But nonetheless, the Camrys have been very good. Extremely reliable, comfortable, etc. As for Hondas, well I've seen people get good ones and bad ones. I had a friend with an 03 or 04 that needed a new radio unit and oil pan within 20,000 miles. I also think Hondas are pretty bland...even more so than the Toyotas.
What is your opinion of Nissans? I've had mostly good experiences with those.
Oh, and the Envoy? That was a mistake not to be repeated.
He is just trolling. Everything he's said in this thread is a troll.
Chris Bangle resigned from his post as BMW's Chief of Design in February 2009.
Not a "long time ago."
The E89 Z4 was revealed in December 2008.
This design, along with the future releases like the F10 5 series, were all finalized and approved by him before he left the company.
More troubling is this:
Safest car in the world? Safe, surely. But safest? What are you basing this on?
I am basing it on the fact that almost every BMW has the best crash test score and they are recognized as the best handling cars money can buy. Porsche and Ferrari also makes cars that handle incredibly but they are not as safe as judged by their lesser active and passive safety constraints.
As for the Camry: it is crap, period. If all your basis for buying a car is reliability then sure, it is good. But so is a wood burning stove. If you are looking for a car that is a looker, fun to drive, or just in general has that ye ne sais quois, look elsewhere. The Camry is as noteworthy as weeds growing on a pond even given the fact that its styling is a complete ripoff from the BMW 5 series.
By the way the Z4, X6 and pretty much every BMW since 2008 has been designed or supervised de facto by Adrian von Hoydoonk.
I am basing it on the fact that almost every BMW has the best crash test score and they are recognized as the best handling cars money can buy. Porsche and Ferrari also makes cars that handle incredibly but they are not as safe as judged by their lesser active and passive safety constraints.
As for the Camry: it is crap, period. If all your basis for buying a car is reliability then sure, it is good. But so is a wood burning stove. If you are looking for a car that is a looker, fun to drive, or just in general has that ye ne sais quois, look elsewhere. The Camry is as noteworthy as weeds growing on a pond even given the fact that its styling is a complete ripoff from the BMW 5 series.
By the way the Z4, X6 and pretty much every BMW since 2008 has been designed or supervised de facto by Adrian von Hoydoonk.
No. Next you'll say Chery QQ is the safest shit ever made. Sigh. This thread is really getting off topic.
Dude, lay off the personal stuff. And lay off the political stuff, too. They have nothing to do with this thread.
In this case, I doubt the that the fact the car(s) were American minivans had much to do with the outcome.
On the larger issue of safety and value of American cars: I still think that overall, they are not as good as their Japanese and German counterparts. I bought several Japanese cars, then went with a GMC Envoy six years ago. It was comfortable and drove well. It was also a piece of shit and got terrible gas mileage. I next owned two Toyota Camrys consecutively, and have noticed much better quality. There are a few American offerings that are compelling for my next car, but my experience with the last one makes it unlikely I will buy one.
That said, there are safe American cars and unsafe ones. Frankly, the safety factor the least of the concerns for the American auto industry.
I think political stuff should go to Political Outsider.
I am basing it on the fact that almost every BMW has the best crash test score and they are recognized as the best handling cars money can buy. Porsche and Ferrari also makes cars that handle incredibly but they are not as safe as judged by their lesser active and passive safety constraints.
As for the Camry: it is crap, period. If all your basis for buying a car is reliability then sure, it is good. But so is a wood burning stove. If you are looking for a car that is a looker, fun to drive, or just in general has that ye ne sais quois, look elsewhere. The Camry is as noteworthy as weeds growing on a pond even given the fact that its styling is a complete ripoff from the BMW 5 series.
By the way the Z4, X6 and pretty much every BMW since 2008 has been designed or supervised de facto by Adrian von Hoydoonk.
BMWs are not the be all, end all. They have frequent electrical problems and others problems even in newer models. I know this from two sources that worked in fields closely related to repair. They are still great cars overall, and handle beautifully. That are quite safe, as well.
As for the Camry: You can opine that the car is boring, but calling it "crap" is factually inaccurate.
The looks factor is subjective, but since 2007 I think they have become much more aggressive looking.
Here is the model and color I have:
As for performance/being boring: It's powered by a 268hp V6. It gets 30MPG on the highway. I have broken the front wheels loose at 30MPH before. 0-60 in 6.9 seconds. Keep in mind...this is a family car. It's not even marketed as sport sedan. For about 30K when new (and that's loaded), one could do worse. I'm not married to it and it does have it flaws. But it's not crap.
Comments
Smart people are much less likely to buy american because they are used to thinking about their purchasing decisions in a logical way. They ask themselves, what is the best value for my money?
If you try to answer that question well and you have a good understanding of automotive engineering you will come to the conclusion that american cars are terrible value for the money. So how can anybody buy american? Well they are the same people who buy PCs and vote Republican. Some of them are intelligent, sure, but they are the minority. They arrived at a bad choice for lack of caring.
You seem to be part of the gullible group. The reason being you seem to believe that car safety is dictated by crash test ratings where this is only part of a much larger equation. The other part is the ability the car gives you to avoid the crash in the first place. Things like good driver visibility, good handling including road feedback, neutrality of balance, good linear breaking power and feel, agility, etc.
If you take all of those into account you will realize that american cars are actually pretty unsafe. They handle like crap, especially a minivan which, if american, wobble uncontrollably even at low speeds, has no grip, power or breaking, etc etc. Only a dimwit would buy american, and I know a lot of people who own them and they are all dimwits.
There. That's all you need to say. It's obvious youo are biased against American cars, saying people who buy them are dimwits.
There. That's all you need to say. It's obvious youo are biased against American cars, saying people who buy them are dimwits.
The whole world is biased against american cars. That is why two of the three have gone bankrupt. Anyone who buys into a company with bankrupt ideas is stupid.
Smart people are much less likely to buy american because they are used to thinking about their purchasing decisions in a logical way. They ask themselves, what is the best value for my money?
If you try to answer that question well and you have a good understanding of automotive engineering you will come to the conclusion that american cars are terrible value for the money. So how can anybody buy american? Well they are the same people who buy PCs and vote Republican. Some of them are intelligent, sure, but they are the minority. They arrived at a bad choice for lack of caring.
You seem to be part of the gullible group. The reason being you seem to believe that car safety is dictated by crash test ratings where this is only part of a much larger equation. The other part is the ability the car gives you to avoid the crash in the first place. Things like good driver visibility, good handling including road feedback, neutrality of balance, good linear breaking power and feel, agility, etc.
If you take all of those into account you will realize that american cars are actually pretty unsafe. They handle like crap, especially a minivan which, if american, wobble uncontrollably even at low speeds, has no grip, power or breaking, etc etc. Only a dimwit would buy american, and I know a lot of people who own them and they are all dimwits.
Dude, lay off the personal stuff. And lay off the political stuff, too. They have nothing to do with this thread.
In this case, I doubt the that the fact the car(s) were American minivans had much to do with the outcome.
On the larger issue of safety and value of American cars: I still think that overall, they are not as good as their Japanese and German counterparts. I bought several Japanese cars, then went with a GMC Envoy six years ago. It was comfortable and drove well. It was also a piece of shit and got terrible gas mileage. I next owned two Toyota Camrys consecutively, and have noticed much better quality. There are a few American offerings that are compelling for my next car, but my experience with the last one makes it unlikely I will buy one.
That said, there are safe American cars and unsafe ones. Frankly, the safety factor the least of the concerns for the American auto industry.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/27/ny...er=rss&emc=rss
Add two american minivans with their crappy handling and subpar safety design to 1 very stupid driver and the result is 8 dead.
That is why my next car will be a BMW. Probably the safest car in the world and the most fun to drive too.
BMWs are good under the hood, but their style is crap. Ever since they hired Chris Bangle, it's been a long road downhill. If you want performance and world-class style, Audi stands alone.
Dude, lay off the personal stuff. And lay off the political stuff, too. They have nothing to do with this thread.
In this case, I doubt the that the fact the car(s) were American minivans had much to do with the outcome.
On the larger issue of safety and value of American cars: I still think that overall, they are not as good as their Japanese and German counterparts. I bought several Japanese cars, then went with a GMC Envoy six years ago. It was comfortable and drove well. It was also a piece of shit and got terrible gas mileage. I next owned two Toyota Camrys consecutively, and have noticed much better quality. There are a few American offerings that are compelling for my next car, but my experience with the last one makes it unlikely I will buy one.
That said, there are safe American cars and unsafe ones. Frankly, the safety factor the least of the concerns for the American auto industry.
An Envoy and two Camrys... ouch! I wouldn't want to be you. Do yourself a favor and stay away from Toyotas... buy a Honda Accord or something.
BMWs are good under the hood, but their style is crap. Ever since they hired Chris Bangle, it's been a long road downhill. If you want performance and world-class style, Audi stands alone.
I have got news for you, Chris Bangle has resigned from BMW a long time ago and since then they have come out with stunning designs that are likely to become classics. Take, for example, the new Z4. Pictures don't do it justice:
An Envoy and two Camrys... ouch! I wouldn't want to be you. Do yourself a favor and stay away from Toyotas... buy a Honda Accord or something.
I think you're just trolling. But nonetheless, the Camrys have been very good. Extremely reliable, comfortable, etc. As for Hondas, well I've seen people get good ones and bad ones. I had a friend with an 03 or 04 that needed a new radio unit and oil pan within 20,000 miles. I also think Hondas are pretty bland...even more so than the Toyotas.
What is your opinion of Nissans? I've had mostly good experiences with those.
Oh, and the Envoy? That was a mistake not to be repeated.
I think you're just trolling. But nonetheless, the Camrys have been very good. Extremely reliable, comfortable, etc. As for Hondas, well I've seen people get good ones and bad ones. I had a friend with an 03 or 04 that needed a new radio unit and oil pan within 20,000 miles. I also think Hondas are pretty bland...even more so than the Toyotas.
What is your opinion of Nissans? I've had mostly good experiences with those.
Why ask Tauron's opinion? Camrys have always been highly rated, so yeah, I'd mark it as trolling. The worst I recall ever hearing about them is that they're understated, probably a euphemism for a bit boring.
Why ask Tauron's opinion? Camrys have always been highly rated, so yeah, I'd mark it as trolling. The worst I recall ever hearing about them is that they're understated, probably a euphemism for a bit boring.
Trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, I suppose.
I have got news for you, Chris Bangle has resigned from BMW a long time ago and since then they have come out with stunning designs that are likely to become classics. Take, for example, the new Z4.
Chris Bangle resigned from his post as BMW's Chief of Design in February 2009.
Not a "long time ago."
The E89 Z4 was revealed in December 2008.
This design, along with the future releases like the F10 5 series, were all finalized and approved by him before he left the company.
More troubling is this:
Probably the safest car in the world and the most fun to drive too.
Safest car in the world? Safe, surely. But safest? What are you basing this on?
I think you're just trolling. But nonetheless, the Camrys have been very good. Extremely reliable, comfortable, etc. As for Hondas, well I've seen people get good ones and bad ones. I had a friend with an 03 or 04 that needed a new radio unit and oil pan within 20,000 miles. I also think Hondas are pretty bland...even more so than the Toyotas.
What is your opinion of Nissans? I've had mostly good experiences with those.
Oh, and the Envoy? That was a mistake not to be repeated.
He is just trolling. Everything he's said in this thread is a troll.
That is why there is no such thing as a 200-car pile-up on the Autobahn.
HAHAHA! I saw this in MacRumors that day.. really laughed.
He is just trolling. Everything he's said in this thread is a troll.
Oh come on he's not trolling. He's just being a LITTLE biased and has DIFFERING SELF-BASED OPINIONS.
Chris Bangle resigned from his post as BMW's Chief of Design in February 2009.
Not a "long time ago."
The E89 Z4 was revealed in December 2008.
This design, along with the future releases like the F10 5 series, were all finalized and approved by him before he left the company.
More troubling is this:
Safest car in the world? Safe, surely. But safest? What are you basing this on?
I am basing it on the fact that almost every BMW has the best crash test score and they are recognized as the best handling cars money can buy. Porsche and Ferrari also makes cars that handle incredibly but they are not as safe as judged by their lesser active and passive safety constraints.
As for the Camry: it is crap, period. If all your basis for buying a car is reliability then sure, it is good. But so is a wood burning stove. If you are looking for a car that is a looker, fun to drive, or just in general has that ye ne sais quois, look elsewhere. The Camry is as noteworthy as weeds growing on a pond even given the fact that its styling is a complete ripoff from the BMW 5 series.
By the way the Z4, X6 and pretty much every BMW since 2008 has been designed or supervised de facto by Adrian von Hoydoonk.
I am basing it on the fact that almost every BMW has the best crash test score and they are recognized as the best handling cars money can buy. Porsche and Ferrari also makes cars that handle incredibly but they are not as safe as judged by their lesser active and passive safety constraints.
As for the Camry: it is crap, period. If all your basis for buying a car is reliability then sure, it is good. But so is a wood burning stove. If you are looking for a car that is a looker, fun to drive, or just in general has that ye ne sais quois, look elsewhere. The Camry is as noteworthy as weeds growing on a pond even given the fact that its styling is a complete ripoff from the BMW 5 series.
By the way the Z4, X6 and pretty much every BMW since 2008 has been designed or supervised de facto by Adrian von Hoydoonk.
No. Next you'll say Chery QQ is the safest shit ever made.
Dude, lay off the personal stuff. And lay off the political stuff, too. They have nothing to do with this thread.
In this case, I doubt the that the fact the car(s) were American minivans had much to do with the outcome.
On the larger issue of safety and value of American cars: I still think that overall, they are not as good as their Japanese and German counterparts. I bought several Japanese cars, then went with a GMC Envoy six years ago. It was comfortable and drove well. It was also a piece of shit and got terrible gas mileage. I next owned two Toyota Camrys consecutively, and have noticed much better quality. There are a few American offerings that are compelling for my next car, but my experience with the last one makes it unlikely I will buy one.
That said, there are safe American cars and unsafe ones. Frankly, the safety factor the least of the concerns for the American auto industry.
I think political stuff should go to Political Outsider.
I am basing it on the fact that almost every BMW has the best crash test score and they are recognized as the best handling cars money can buy. Porsche and Ferrari also makes cars that handle incredibly but they are not as safe as judged by their lesser active and passive safety constraints.
As for the Camry: it is crap, period. If all your basis for buying a car is reliability then sure, it is good. But so is a wood burning stove. If you are looking for a car that is a looker, fun to drive, or just in general has that ye ne sais quois, look elsewhere. The Camry is as noteworthy as weeds growing on a pond even given the fact that its styling is a complete ripoff from the BMW 5 series.
By the way the Z4, X6 and pretty much every BMW since 2008 has been designed or supervised de facto by Adrian von Hoydoonk.
BMWs are not the be all, end all. They have frequent electrical problems and others problems even in newer models. I know this from two sources that worked in fields closely related to repair. They are still great cars overall, and handle beautifully. That are quite safe, as well.
As for the Camry: You can opine that the car is boring, but calling it "crap" is factually inaccurate.
The looks factor is subjective, but since 2007 I think they have become much more aggressive looking.
Here is the model and color I have:
As for performance/being boring: It's powered by a 268hp V6. It gets 30MPG on the highway. I have broken the front wheels loose at 30MPH before. 0-60 in 6.9 seconds. Keep in mind...this is a family car. It's not even marketed as sport sedan. For about 30K when new (and that's loaded), one could do worse. I'm not married to it and it does have it flaws. But it's not crap.