Didn't know that such was available, but very useful app if the databases are reliable. This should be available as a free public service app. I don't know if Apple has considered the potential backlash of NOT putting that app out.
Can you see the lawsuit that Apple would have to deal with from a iPhone user who gets raped, killed or otherwise suffers harm that arguably would not have occurred had the software been made available--I'd think that the legal eagles should seriously weigh rejecting this one long term.
Sex offenders don't have much of a legal voice AND SHOULDN'T; but let someone get hurt because it was rejected? Big check that APple would have to write
That's not Apple responsibility that's the people. In fact it should be in their city or town's newspapers.
Just the other night I wanted to find Tex-Mex food, take it to the nearest showing of Star Trek, and eat it with a sex offender. An iPhone is PERFECT in that situation. But guess what? Now I'll have to have Tex-Mex alone. Thanks for nothing, Apple.
LOL!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by dak splunder
And there's no registration database for murderers, or thieves, or assholes. If some lowlife raped his girlfriend 20 years ago and went to jail and suffered for it and paid the price and cleaned up his life, why should he not have a chance to live a normal life again like other criminals get to?
This is how you force people into the shadows where their choices are limited and the chance that they'll commit more crimes increases.
(And don't give me the "they should have thought about that before they did _____" line. They didn't. They screwed up. And if they turn their lives around after serving their time, it's better for the rest of us.)
I agree, actually, and think Apple did the right thing to pull that app because it would most likely be a tool used to harass or threaten people.
Good move Apple. All kinds of possible legal issues should they have approved it.
Privacy issues among them.
Yeah that reason I was considering not pursue doing that app. I believe everybody has a right to privacy which ironically I have issues with FaceBook & Twitter. I'm sorry for people to know what the Hell you doing every minute is kinda creepy, but apparently that's America Voyeuristic lifestyle.
What a delightfully screwed up system you have in the States... where a woman who breastfeeds in public, or an underage girl who sends a topless photo of herself to her boyfriend, can end up on a public sex offenders register, for any mindless vigilante who's so inclined to then go and firebomb their house. Or maybe the house where they used to live, three years ago, if reports about the quality of the database are anything to go by.
What I don't get is why people would pay anything for an app like this when the information is already available for free on very functional web sites.
I can see how not having a current database could run you into sladerous legal trouble, though. Imagine living in a house incorrectly marked as home to an offender.
The problem with that app is that "sex offenders" included everything from people arrested for urinating in public or being nude in public, to child molesters, with no distinction between them.
Definitely. Then there are say, teens having consensual sex, but one or both under the legal age, they can get on their state's list, and is not easily distinguished from sexual assault. I know my state has ratings for the degree of the crime, but the site doesn't provide info on what the ratings mean.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrono
Stephen Marshall, the Canadian man who murdered two people in Maine who were listed on the registry, used a wireless service to plot his crimes and choose his victims. As much as 40% of registrants and an equal number of family members of registrants (kids included) have been the targets of vigilante violence. There was also the possibility of innocent people targeted simply because they look like a picture viewed on a 2.5 inch screen (many innocent people have been assaulted because of bad registry info). This app would have increased vigilante violence.
Anecdotes are interesting, but I don't think anecdotes are something to set policy by. Are there any stats on how common this is?
I'm personally VERY relieved that this app was banned. It saves me from having to file a lawsuit.
It's not the profiting of the database that I care about, it's the re-purposing of the database that's a very serious issue. Here's the problem and why it directly affected me...
I got this app and tested it in the area where I lived. Imagine my surprise when MY HOUSE showed up on the map! The problem is that I live at X Streetname, Cityname, California. The sex offender put Y Streetname, East Cityname, California. There is no Y on my street, but X is close enough. And there is no Streetname in East Cityname, but because the database abbreviates it as "E" instead of fully as East, the search accepts any instance of E in the term. But this is only something that occurs because the database is being re-purposed. The iPhone app uses Bing to map in an effort to get the best possible match. Bing goes with the assumption that even if it's wrong, it's better to suggest a location and let someone discover it's wrong.
However, this means it's just the opposite of innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. This app can't find the evil convict home, so it's claiming my house.
Worse, there's no recourse for this. The makers of the app aren't claiming responsibility of the mapping service or the database. The official database though, while inaccurate, doesn't actually list my address, so while I've notified them, they're not updating the information.
To make matters even worse on all of this is that the convict is truly evil (it describes what he did), and the photo looks like a cross between myself and my father who comes to visit from time to time. I'm the only person of this race on my block.
So this app was VERY seriously flawed...and not necessary to begin with. More accurate and detailed information could be easily found online by going to the official database in any web browser.
To be clear, by re-purposing the database, this app labels innocent people who were never even accused of anything by anybody as the most horrific evil criminals and predators.
The problem with that app is that "sex offenders" included everything from people arrested for urinating in public or being nude in public, to child molesters, with no distinction between them.
It is unfortunate but what might have been an admirable idea has quickly morphed into something completely useless. All in all the databases would be a lot more useful if they went back to their original purpose which is notify people about violently dangerous persons in the area. Due to the inclusion of so many offenses on these databases I could see where Apple would be concerned about their legal liability if something bad where to happen to somebody.
It is funny that urinating in public is in some cases considered a sex crime. Spend some time in Europe or South of the Border and it seems to be common practice. Other than the same tool being used I can't see where it has anything to do with sex.
I'm personally VERY relieved that this app was banned. It saves me from having to file a lawsuit.
Says macslut. LOL!
Sorry, I couldn't resist. I agree with your post, though, and think the app was fraught with peril and could possibly include innocent people inadvertently.
apple is slowly becoming 'holier than the pope' in the sense of not wanting to offend anybody, anywhere, anytime.
another example of so-called 'political correctness gone mad'.
actually the issue is liability. If it is true that California has laws against such reselling and Apple didn't remove it, they would get in trouble. If someone finds out that there is an offender not listed, then the app doesn't do as advertised and Apple still gets the fun of dealing with explaining that they didn't right the app ya da ya da
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcsegenmd
I don't know if Apple has considered the potential backlash of NOT putting that app out.
there is no law saying that Apple has to make an app for every possible use. Which is part of why Apple doesn't make these apps. they just merely made the means for others to do so.
Quote:
Sex offenders don't have much of a legal voice AND SHOULDN'T; but let someone get hurt because it was rejected? Big check that APple would have to write
you do realize I hope, that some of those big bad sex offenders are not so. in many states if my just turned 18 year old brother has consenting sex with his not 18 for two more months girlfriend and is found out, he's now a sex offender. In other states, my 14 year old sister would be a sex offender just for having sex, regardless of the age of the boy.
and Apple would not be liable for anything if someone was raped or whatever by a sex offender missing from a 3rd party listing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macslut
I got this app and tested it in the area where I lived. Imagine my surprise when MY HOUSE showed up on the map! The problem is that I live at X Streetname, Cityname, California. The sex offender put Y Streetname, East Cityname, California.
yep, there's that issue as well. even the post office screws this up. growing up my best friend lived at 100 East Main and they got at least one piece of mail a day that was for 100 Main (at the other end of the street).
now while Apple is not liable when Mr X at 100 East Main is attacked while it's Mr Y at 100 Main that is the perv, sorting it out would still be a major headache.
Anyone who thinks this app is controversial has been ignorant of their state's law for a very long time.
The controversy may not be the idea/intent of the app, but it's execution. Such as if it is using a data source which is demonstrated to be unreliable. As has been stated, another similar application has not been removed by Apple. This suggests that Apple doesn't have an issue with the concept of tracking sex offenders. But if someone buys a house thinking it's a "safe" neighborhood because the app didn't show any sex offenders, and it turns out one lives right next door, then with the crazy legal system we have here in the US it's very likely Apple would be included in the sure-to-be-filed lawsuit against the developers of the application.
The iPhone app uses Bing to map in an effort to get the best possible match. Bing goes with the assumption that even if it's wrong, it's better to suggest a location and let someone discover it's wrong.
Well know we know the true reason why it was rejected!
Typical Microsoft incompetence!
I don't believe Apple should sell any program that could be used to facilitate a crime. The government sponsoring "vigilante violence" and "public fear" by publishing offenders (any) location should be changed. If the person in question is such a risk, then they should be moved to a town of like types and many miles from any possible type victims.
Sex offenders can be anyone, even uncaught and unregistered ones, people who are in authority and even trusted members of local communities, just like any possible criminal.
A iPhone app is no replacement for street smarts. What can be done, will be done, so prepare for the worst, the good will take care of itself.
Really, how hard is it for the software supplier in question to offer it for free? Secondly, I'd like to see them be a little more transparent about what database(s) they use.
I think alot of people are missing the ;point. If that's the case and there is a legal issue with the content it's showing, how did this get into the store in the first place?
Thats where I am starting to have a problem. If they are going to make developers go through the scrutiny of getting their app approved, the least Apple could do is get their shit together. They have had ample time to do so as far as I'm concerned.
The problem with that app is that "sex offenders" included everything from people arrested for urinating in public or being nude in public, to child molesters, with no distinction between them.
Wow, what state classifies urinating in public as a sexual offense???
I think an app that would let you log into the dash cams in squad cars would be cool! This way one could 'scan' the cams and when a cop is seen beating someone, you could record it and sell it to some sleaze bag attorney and/or sue!!!!!!
Comments
Privacy issues among them.
Didn't know that such was available, but very useful app if the databases are reliable. This should be available as a free public service app. I don't know if Apple has considered the potential backlash of NOT putting that app out.
Can you see the lawsuit that Apple would have to deal with from a iPhone user who gets raped, killed or otherwise suffers harm that arguably would not have occurred had the software been made available--I'd think that the legal eagles should seriously weigh rejecting this one long term.
Sex offenders don't have much of a legal voice AND SHOULDN'T; but let someone get hurt because it was rejected? Big check that APple would have to write
That's not Apple responsibility that's the people. In fact it should be in their city or town's newspapers.
Just the other night I wanted to find Tex-Mex food, take it to the nearest showing of Star Trek, and eat it with a sex offender. An iPhone is PERFECT in that situation. But guess what? Now I'll have to have Tex-Mex alone. Thanks for nothing, Apple.
LOL!!
And there's no registration database for murderers, or thieves, or assholes. If some lowlife raped his girlfriend 20 years ago and went to jail and suffered for it and paid the price and cleaned up his life, why should he not have a chance to live a normal life again like other criminals get to?
This is how you force people into the shadows where their choices are limited and the chance that they'll commit more crimes increases.
(And don't give me the "they should have thought about that before they did _____" line. They didn't. They screwed up. And if they turn their lives around after serving their time, it's better for the rest of us.)
I agree, actually, and think Apple did the right thing to pull that app because it would most likely be a tool used to harass or threaten people.
Good move Apple. All kinds of possible legal issues should they have approved it.
Privacy issues among them.
Yeah that reason I was considering not pursue doing that app. I believe everybody has a right to privacy which ironically I have issues with FaceBook & Twitter. I'm sorry for people to know what the Hell you doing every minute is kinda creepy, but apparently that's America Voyeuristic lifestyle.
I can see how not having a current database could run you into sladerous legal trouble, though. Imagine living in a house incorrectly marked as home to an offender.
The problem with that app is that "sex offenders" included everything from people arrested for urinating in public or being nude in public, to child molesters, with no distinction between them.
Definitely. Then there are say, teens having consensual sex, but one or both under the legal age, they can get on their state's list, and is not easily distinguished from sexual assault. I know my state has ratings for the degree of the crime, but the site doesn't provide info on what the ratings mean.
Stephen Marshall, the Canadian man who murdered two people in Maine who were listed on the registry, used a wireless service to plot his crimes and choose his victims. As much as 40% of registrants and an equal number of family members of registrants (kids included) have been the targets of vigilante violence. There was also the possibility of innocent people targeted simply because they look like a picture viewed on a 2.5 inch screen (many innocent people have been assaulted because of bad registry info). This app would have increased vigilante violence.
Anecdotes are interesting, but I don't think anecdotes are something to set policy by. Are there any stats on how common this is?
It's not the profiting of the database that I care about, it's the re-purposing of the database that's a very serious issue. Here's the problem and why it directly affected me...
I got this app and tested it in the area where I lived. Imagine my surprise when MY HOUSE showed up on the map! The problem is that I live at X Streetname, Cityname, California. The sex offender put Y Streetname, East Cityname, California. There is no Y on my street, but X is close enough. And there is no Streetname in East Cityname, but because the database abbreviates it as "E" instead of fully as East, the search accepts any instance of E in the term. But this is only something that occurs because the database is being re-purposed. The iPhone app uses Bing to map in an effort to get the best possible match. Bing goes with the assumption that even if it's wrong, it's better to suggest a location and let someone discover it's wrong.
However, this means it's just the opposite of innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. This app can't find the evil convict home, so it's claiming my house.
Worse, there's no recourse for this. The makers of the app aren't claiming responsibility of the mapping service or the database. The official database though, while inaccurate, doesn't actually list my address, so while I've notified them, they're not updating the information.
To make matters even worse on all of this is that the convict is truly evil (it describes what he did), and the photo looks like a cross between myself and my father who comes to visit from time to time. I'm the only person of this race on my block.
So this app was VERY seriously flawed...and not necessary to begin with. More accurate and detailed information could be easily found online by going to the official database in any web browser.
To be clear, by re-purposing the database, this app labels innocent people who were never even accused of anything by anybody as the most horrific evil criminals and predators.
The problem with that app is that "sex offenders" included everything from people arrested for urinating in public or being nude in public, to child molesters, with no distinction between them.
It is unfortunate but what might have been an admirable idea has quickly morphed into something completely useless. All in all the databases would be a lot more useful if they went back to their original purpose which is notify people about violently dangerous persons in the area. Due to the inclusion of so many offenses on these databases I could see where Apple would be concerned about their legal liability if something bad where to happen to somebody.
It is funny that urinating in public is in some cases considered a sex crime. Spend some time in Europe or South of the Border and it seems to be common practice. Other than the same tool being used I can't see where it has anything to do with sex.
Dave
I'm personally VERY relieved that this app was banned. It saves me from having to file a lawsuit.
Says macslut. LOL!
Sorry, I couldn't resist. I agree with your post, though, and think the app was fraught with peril and could possibly include innocent people inadvertently.
I don't care where the sex offenders are, I want to know where the arsonists are.
To heck with an arsonist, I want an app that showed me where the rich, lonely widows were in my area. Then she can "light my fire".
apple is slowly becoming 'holier than the pope' in the sense of not wanting to offend anybody, anywhere, anytime.
another example of so-called 'political correctness gone mad'.
actually the issue is liability. If it is true that California has laws against such reselling and Apple didn't remove it, they would get in trouble. If someone finds out that there is an offender not listed, then the app doesn't do as advertised and Apple still gets the fun of dealing with explaining that they didn't right the app ya da ya da
I don't know if Apple has considered the potential backlash of NOT putting that app out.
there is no law saying that Apple has to make an app for every possible use. Which is part of why Apple doesn't make these apps. they just merely made the means for others to do so.
Sex offenders don't have much of a legal voice AND SHOULDN'T; but let someone get hurt because it was rejected? Big check that APple would have to write
you do realize I hope, that some of those big bad sex offenders are not so. in many states if my just turned 18 year old brother has consenting sex with his not 18 for two more months girlfriend and is found out, he's now a sex offender. In other states, my 14 year old sister would be a sex offender just for having sex, regardless of the age of the boy.
and Apple would not be liable for anything if someone was raped or whatever by a sex offender missing from a 3rd party listing.
I got this app and tested it in the area where I lived. Imagine my surprise when MY HOUSE showed up on the map! The problem is that I live at X Streetname, Cityname, California. The sex offender put Y Streetname, East Cityname, California.
yep, there's that issue as well. even the post office screws this up. growing up my best friend lived at 100 East Main and they got at least one piece of mail a day that was for 100 Main (at the other end of the street).
now while Apple is not liable when Mr X at 100 East Main is attacked while it's Mr Y at 100 Main that is the perv, sorting it out would still be a major headache.
Unjust and ineffective
America has pioneered the harsh punishment of sex offenders. Does it work?
http://www.economist.com/opinion/dis...ry_id=14164614
Anyone who thinks this app is controversial has been ignorant of their state's law for a very long time.
The controversy may not be the idea/intent of the app, but it's execution. Such as if it is using a data source which is demonstrated to be unreliable. As has been stated, another similar application has not been removed by Apple. This suggests that Apple doesn't have an issue with the concept of tracking sex offenders. But if someone buys a house thinking it's a "safe" neighborhood because the app didn't show any sex offenders, and it turns out one lives right next door, then with the crazy legal system we have here in the US it's very likely Apple would be included in the sure-to-be-filed lawsuit against the developers of the application.
The iPhone app uses Bing to map in an effort to get the best possible match. Bing goes with the assumption that even if it's wrong, it's better to suggest a location and let someone discover it's wrong.
Well know we know the true reason why it was rejected!
Typical Microsoft incompetence!
I don't believe Apple should sell any program that could be used to facilitate a crime. The government sponsoring "vigilante violence" and "public fear" by publishing offenders (any) location should be changed. If the person in question is such a risk, then they should be moved to a town of like types and many miles from any possible type victims.
Sex offenders can be anyone, even uncaught and unregistered ones, people who are in authority and even trusted members of local communities, just like any possible criminal.
A iPhone app is no replacement for street smarts. What can be done, will be done, so prepare for the worst, the good will take care of itself.
shhh, you may frighten them with logic.
Really, how hard is it for the software supplier in question to offer it for free? Secondly, I'd like to see them be a little more transparent about what database(s) they use.
I think alot of people are missing the ;point. If that's the case and there is a legal issue with the content it's showing, how did this get into the store in the first place?
Thats where I am starting to have a problem. If they are going to make developers go through the scrutiny of getting their app approved, the least Apple could do is get their shit together. They have had ample time to do so as far as I'm concerned.
The problem with that app is that "sex offenders" included everything from people arrested for urinating in public or being nude in public, to child molesters, with no distinction between them.
Wow, what state classifies urinating in public as a sexual offense???
I think an app that would let you log into the dash cams in squad cars would be cool! This way one could 'scan' the cams and when a cop is seen beating someone, you could record it and sell it to some sleaze bag attorney and/or sue!!!!!!