My typical: "And this relates to Apple how?" Competition is all, but this has nothing to do with the inner workings of Apple (Apple's insides) but merely their competition. Its like I'm reading MS Insider.
Main Point:
To those who are already saying how horrible the Zune HD is (or will be), I urge to you first try the device before knocking it. True, it may not be as good as the iPod Touch (and I really hope it is much better than Apple's device so Apple can wake up some), but please don't put the device down until you have touched it, used it, crashed it, bought it, what have you. Only then can one make remarks on how well the device works. Don't make this an MS bashing game again. I'm sick of reading that stuff.
I want to know what the next iPod touch has in store for us? Unlocked bluetooth, oh please? Or built in Mic? Better build quality? Ideas folks?
Apple will most likely double the capacity, but I highly doubt in response to one product. I expect this price disparity last about a month. Apple generally doubles the capacity for the same or lower price every early fall for the past four or so years.
OLED is interesting, but I don't see how Microsoft's "social" is a selling point. You can get probably dozens of social media apps for the Touch, to services are already using if the buyer is at all interested in that kind of service. Most of those apps would connect to social media services that people actually use rather than being stuck in a small social room comprised only of people that own a certain product.
MS just WANTS to hurt Apple, and is willing to break even or LOSE money to do so.
Now is this fact or fiction?
- Does MS get Apple to lower it's price and look like bad guys for charging so much, for so long?
- Does MS in fact NOT price there's cheaply out of the gate (this would be a disaster if in fact Apple did lower there price)
- Does MS know, the ONLY way to compete with iPod's is with price, and in fact, how many folks will jump ship for $100.00?
- Does Apple come out with several new models, at great prices, making it very hard for MS to even get a foot hold in the market?
Hell, if apple was to lose $100.00 per unit, they could do so, for the next 5 years, and still not put a dent in their cash reservers, but boy, it would make it VERY hard for MS to continue down this road.
Here are a few options to wonder about:
- Apple does nothing, and still kicks ass!
- Apple in-fact lowers the price, adds several new models, and makes MS pay dearly for stepping on their turf
- Apple meets them half way, and watches to see how the Dud (I mean Dune) does, and makes them pay next quarter.
Even if this product is surprisingly decent and a success from Microsoft's perspective, I think they miss the point. The truth is the market is moving towards convergence and sales of players like the zune are slowing down. If they really wanted to take on Apple they'd create a Zune phone. That probably wouldn't make their partners happy but the point is, they're trying to achieve success in a market that is increasingly mattering less.
iPhone 3GS just went to 32 g. But if they rise Touch to 64 - why not up iPhone to 64? Already in the autumn together with the 8 g 3GS? Or in january 2010?
iPhone 3GS just went to 32 g. But if they rise Touch to 64 - why not up iPhone to 64? Already in the autumn together with the 8 g 3GS? Or in january 2010?
Touch has more circuit board space to add double the flash chips. iPhone needs to support more radios (Bluetooth, WiFi, GSM/GRPS/EDGE/3G) vs. just WiFi and maybe Bluetooth.
Right now, Apple is giving away iPod Touch for free with a lot of Mac purchases. Clearly, the company is aggressively clearing out inventory.
What out, Zune!
(Of course, Microsoft could pull a Pre, and make the Zune compatible with iTunes. Loss of face aside, that would significantly ratchet up the competition!).
so apple meets the price of the 32gb, hopefully they are able to get an fm radio, oled screen, and a nice updated look to go with it. the zune hd is looking like a damn good media player. it looks like microsoft finally got something right.. this and windows 7 must have apple a little worried.
this ipod touch refresh is going to be important, and if apple slacks like they have been for a while now, the are going to see serious competition from microsoft this year.
And it doesn't mean crap because it's not a comparable product. There is no where the same support for games & apps. This is another case of Microsoft coming to the party 5 years too late.
Right now, Apple is giving away iPod Touch for free with a lot of Mac purchases. Clearly, the company is aggressively clearing out inventory.
What out, Zune!
(Of course, Microsoft could pull a Pre, and make the Zune compatible with iTunes. Loss of face aside, that would significantly ratchet up the competition!).
NO you may be wrong. Apple rarely clears anything out
i can still buy 4 yr old products.
This apples discount to the market without a permanent price reduction.
also you don't need any proof at all to get the free touch
(Of course, Microsoft could pull a Pre, and make the Zune compatible with iTunes. Loss of face aside, that would significantly ratchet up the competition!).
Actually that would be very interesting, but it would blow apart their Live Marketplace strategy on Eggbox. Who knows...
I like the idea of outputting 720p via a dock, especially as the MS 720p codec is pretty good (if it's the same as the Xbox Live codec).
I don't think this is going to seriously dent the iPod's sales though.
I would be nice if the next version of the touch could support loading Apple's HD video content and then outputting it via the dock connector to an HDMI cable. It would solve one of the big sticking points about downloaded video content, namely portability. If I buy a DVD/blu-ray, I can take it to a friend's house for movie night. But if I buy or rent from iTunes, I can only watch the HD version on my computer or HTPC; and I'm stuck with only the SD version on my iPod.
Of course, even if Apple did this they'd likely charge $99 for the dock-to-HDMI cable.
Why no mention of the OLED screen? Isn't that kind of an important oversight? Anyway, the Ipod Touch will remain the leader regardless simply due to the App store. What would sweeten the pot though, would be the addition of Oled and a camera. Still good to have Microsoft doing their thing and doing it somewhat well with the new Zune.
It's a given, I think, that the next 16GB iPod touch will be at most $229. The open question is will Apple move down to $199 to pressure MS's margins, like they did with iPod vs. Zune. MS may be big but Apple, as the biggest NAND consumer, gets better pricing on NAND flash than MS.
It's also a given that Apple will introduce the next iPod touch at least by Sept 15, and more likely, by Sept 9. The open question is will Apple have the intro before Labor Day, as some have rumored.
Finally, why oh why does the Zune HD home screen not fit the words "marketplace" and "more" within it? (I assume "more" is the last item on that list.) I know they want to make the touch area big enough to easily touch, but it just looks ugly.
Good point on NAND, because Apple even pays in advance for chips in a flooded market. How nice of them. Next generation touch should have good margins and better features, which should offset any price difference either way. Funny that Zune was the 'social iPod' with its wifi, yet the next touch with camera and mic could be as social as you can get with out a cell plan.
Your 'finally' question, Why do you Question Microsoft's design and layout methodology?
Quote:
Originally Posted by slapppy
Can Apple make a profit selling at those price point? Apple doesn't have a monopoly to fund money losing products. Apple can't afford to sell money losing products like the Zune which was introduced in 2006 and has lost money ever since.
They are giving them away with current laptop purchases through education, so there has to be a little margin in them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimDreamworx
That worked great for XBox!
Quote:
Originally Posted by slapppy
Thats right. Lost billions for many years right? Sony can't afford to do that, heck what company can? Doesn't make business sense.
That's what Microsoft is scared of, especially considering last quarter. Bet they are all wondering when Apple is going to enter the TV market with an AppleTV built into the LCD. It could only be a matter of time. One less device to hook up, built in mail, chat, voice... weather... well, plex, boxee, xbmc, linuxmce, sageTV, eyeTV... could be hurting for money. Some givens: integration keeps inching along, a great web browser and network connection go a long way, the whole loss leader is killing other companies while Apple is making a profit selling similar products in their market. Love Apple's way of entering other people's markets. One of the differences between Apple Business Model and MS Business Model of the Past.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep
err sarah palin put lip stick on all her lips
err, wish we had palin as president with pelosi as speaker. We'd have SNL comedy 24/7/365.
btw, how do you know? I really must know !
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27
My typical: "And this relates to Apple how?" Competition is all, but this has nothing to do with the inner workings of Apple (Apple's insides) but merely their competition. Its like I'm reading MS Insider.
Main Point:
To those who are already saying how horrible the Zune HD is (or will be), I urge to you first try the device before knocking it. True, it may not be as good as the iPod Touch (and I really hope it is much better than Apple's device so Apple can wake up some), but please don't put the device down until you have touched it, used it, crashed it, bought it, what have you. Only then can one make remarks on how well the device works. Don't make this an MS bashing game again. I'm sick of reading that stuff.
I want to know what the next iPod touch has in store for us? Unlocked bluetooth, oh please? Or built in Mic? Better build quality? Ideas folks?
Agree with you cam, be nice to have full bluetooth (keyboard and more), mic, better build quality, built in invisible shield protection, screenshare client, shell access... Thing that gets me is that most people do not see that this os x touch 'model' is more likely to trickle up into higher end products than the other way around, giving everyone less control over the device and more cat and mouse games. already seeing choices being taken away, potentially being based on wireless carrier issues, which would have nothing to do with a wifi only device. Which, may make the Zune a better alternative if one can get a good build of linux/unix on it the Zune HD does look good, so it will be nice to have some competition in the market.
Oh, a corporate note, Apple has about 9 times as much cash per share as microsoft.
Comments
I don't think this is going to seriously dent the iPod's sales though.
A $100.00 price cut for a crappy product doesn't take away from the fact that it's still a crappy product.
You can put lipstick on a pig...
.....
Main Point:
To those who are already saying how horrible the Zune HD is (or will be), I urge to you first try the device before knocking it. True, it may not be as good as the iPod Touch (and I really hope it is much better than Apple's device so Apple can wake up some), but please don't put the device down until you have touched it, used it, crashed it, bought it, what have you. Only then can one make remarks on how well the device works. Don't make this an MS bashing game again. I'm sick of reading that stuff.
I want to know what the next iPod touch has in store for us? Unlocked bluetooth, oh please? Or built in Mic? Better build quality? Ideas folks?
Apple will most likely double the capacity, but I highly doubt in response to one product. I expect this price disparity last about a month. Apple generally doubles the capacity for the same or lower price every early fall for the past four or so years.
OLED is interesting, but I don't see how Microsoft's "social" is a selling point. You can get probably dozens of social media apps for the Touch, to services are already using if the buyer is at all interested in that kind of service. Most of those apps would connect to social media services that people actually use rather than being stuck in a small social room comprised only of people that own a certain product.
Jeff its all over
we lost
ITS A CRAZY ZUNE world now .
now only if i can find a zune accessory
Now is this fact or fiction?
- Does MS get Apple to lower it's price and look like bad guys for charging so much, for so long?
- Does MS in fact NOT price there's cheaply out of the gate (this would be a disaster if in fact Apple did lower there price)
- Does MS know, the ONLY way to compete with iPod's is with price, and in fact, how many folks will jump ship for $100.00?
- Does Apple come out with several new models, at great prices, making it very hard for MS to even get a foot hold in the market?
Hell, if apple was to lose $100.00 per unit, they could do so, for the next 5 years, and still not put a dent in their cash reservers, but boy, it would make it VERY hard for MS to continue down this road.
Here are a few options to wonder about:
- Apple does nothing, and still kicks ass!
- Apple in-fact lowers the price, adds several new models, and makes MS pay dearly for stepping on their turf
- Apple meets them half way, and watches to see how the Dud (I mean Dune) does, and makes them pay next quarter.
Skip
iPhone 3GS just went to 32 g. But if they rise Touch to 64 - why not up iPhone to 64? Already in the autumn together with the 8 g 3GS? Or in january 2010?
Hey, hey, hey!
iPhone 3GS just went to 32 g. But if they rise Touch to 64 - why not up iPhone to 64? Already in the autumn together with the 8 g 3GS? Or in january 2010?
Touch has more circuit board space to add double the flash chips. iPhone needs to support more radios (Bluetooth, WiFi, GSM/GRPS/EDGE/3G) vs. just WiFi and maybe Bluetooth.
This is a good thing - it keeps Apple honest and pushing the envelope.
What out, Zune!
(Of course, Microsoft could pull a Pre, and make the Zune compatible with iTunes. Loss of face aside, that would significantly ratchet up the competition!).
this ipod touch refresh is going to be important, and if apple slacks like they have been for a while now, the are going to see serious competition from microsoft this year.
Right now, Apple is giving away iPod Touch for free with a lot of Mac purchases. Clearly, the company is aggressively clearing out inventory.
What out, Zune!
(Of course, Microsoft could pull a Pre, and make the Zune compatible with iTunes. Loss of face aside, that would significantly ratchet up the competition!).
NO you may be wrong. Apple rarely clears anything out
i can still buy 4 yr old products.
This apples discount to the market without a permanent price reduction.
also you don't need any proof at all to get the free touch
And comparing it to an iPod Touch is just.... so ridiculous it's almost an insult
The fact that Apple products mostly appeal to lonely friendless elitists who don't socialise much...
Is this really a fact, or just some bullshit you just dreamed up?
(Of course, Microsoft could pull a Pre, and make the Zune compatible with iTunes. Loss of face aside, that would significantly ratchet up the competition!).
Actually that would be very interesting, but it would blow apart their Live Marketplace strategy on Eggbox. Who knows...
A $100.00 price cut for a crappy product doesn't take away from the fact that it's still a crappy product.
You can put lipstick on a pig...
BINGO.
The Zune will need to be sold for under $100 or free to sell in significant quantities.
I like the idea of outputting 720p via a dock, especially as the MS 720p codec is pretty good (if it's the same as the Xbox Live codec).
I don't think this is going to seriously dent the iPod's sales though.
I would be nice if the next version of the touch could support loading Apple's HD video content and then outputting it via the dock connector to an HDMI cable. It would solve one of the big sticking points about downloaded video content, namely portability. If I buy a DVD/blu-ray, I can take it to a friend's house for movie night. But if I buy or rent from iTunes, I can only watch the HD version on my computer or HTPC; and I'm stuck with only the SD version on my iPod.
Of course, even if Apple did this they'd likely charge $99 for the dock-to-HDMI cable.
It's a given, I think, that the next 16GB iPod touch will be at most $229. The open question is will Apple move down to $199 to pressure MS's margins, like they did with iPod vs. Zune. MS may be big but Apple, as the biggest NAND consumer, gets better pricing on NAND flash than MS.
It's also a given that Apple will introduce the next iPod touch at least by Sept 15, and more likely, by Sept 9. The open question is will Apple have the intro before Labor Day, as some have rumored.
Finally, why oh why does the Zune HD home screen not fit the words "marketplace" and "more" within it? (I assume "more" is the last item on that list.) I know they want to make the touch area big enough to easily touch, but it just looks ugly.
Good point on NAND, because Apple even pays in advance for chips in a flooded market. How nice of them
Your 'finally' question, Why do you Question Microsoft's design and layout methodology?
Can Apple make a profit selling at those price point? Apple doesn't have a monopoly to fund money losing products. Apple can't afford to sell money losing products like the Zune which was introduced in 2006 and has lost money ever since.
They are giving them away with current laptop purchases through education, so there has to be a little margin in them.
That worked great for XBox!
Thats right. Lost billions for many years right? Sony can't afford to do that, heck what company can? Doesn't make business sense.
That's what Microsoft is scared of, especially considering last quarter. Bet they are all wondering when Apple is going to enter the TV market with an AppleTV built into the LCD. It could only be a matter of time. One less device to hook up, built in mail, chat, voice... weather... well, plex, boxee, xbmc, linuxmce, sageTV, eyeTV... could be hurting for money. Some givens: integration keeps inching along, a great web browser and network connection go a long way, the whole loss leader is killing other companies while Apple is making a profit selling similar products in their market. Love Apple's way of entering other people's markets. One of the differences between Apple Business Model and MS Business Model of the Past.
err sarah palin put lip stick on all her lips
err, wish we had palin as president with pelosi as speaker. We'd have SNL comedy 24/7/365.
btw, how do you know? I really must know
My typical: "And this relates to Apple how?" Competition is all, but this has nothing to do with the inner workings of Apple (Apple's insides) but merely their competition. Its like I'm reading MS Insider.
Main Point:
To those who are already saying how horrible the Zune HD is (or will be), I urge to you first try the device before knocking it. True, it may not be as good as the iPod Touch (and I really hope it is much better than Apple's device so Apple can wake up some), but please don't put the device down until you have touched it, used it, crashed it, bought it, what have you. Only then can one make remarks on how well the device works. Don't make this an MS bashing game again. I'm sick of reading that stuff.
I want to know what the next iPod touch has in store for us? Unlocked bluetooth, oh please? Or built in Mic? Better build quality? Ideas folks?
Agree with you cam, be nice to have full bluetooth (keyboard and more), mic, better build quality, built in invisible shield protection, screenshare client, shell access... Thing that gets me is that most people do not see that this os x touch 'model' is more likely to trickle up into higher end products than the other way around, giving everyone less control over the device and more cat and mouse games. already seeing choices being taken away, potentially being based on wireless carrier issues, which would have nothing to do with a wifi only device. Which, may make the Zune a better alternative if one can get a good build of linux/unix on it
Oh, a corporate note, Apple has about 9 times as much cash per share as microsoft.